1956:, adding Chris Evans as a current presenter. However,the simple fact is that despite a contract being in place, Evans has not presented a single episode of Top Gear and cannot therefore be regarded as a presenter. Speculation is that new episodes of Top Gear will air in 2016 but, as of now, only Evans has been contracted. No other presenters have even been named, although there has been plenty of speculation about Jodie Kidd, but Knowledge (XXG) does not deal in speculation. Anything can happen in the next 9+ months so it's better that we wait until we have some content that doesn't mean throwing
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562:"The question we should ask is "has Top Gear had a major influence on the person's life?" If the answer is yes, they should be listed" - the answer to that question is yes because it made her made famous around the world amongs TG viewers. I see we have the same 3 people removing facts from the encyclopedia and passing them off as genuine edits. Sabine Schmitz deserves to be on that infobox, just because I put her there has nothing to do with it.
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answer is yes. Bentley contributed to the old version of Top Gear and therefore has less of a place there than
Schmitz. I'm reinstating her until the issue is resolved. Also, unlike TGD, we are not just going to take it as read if the 3 most prominent posters here (we know who they are), all disagree with me, that that equals a consensus on the subject.
1281:(Edit conflicted with Drmargi's) Ukexpat, if you hadn't noticed, TGSM appeared in the first two episodes of the current series and has since not reappeared or been mentioned, and isn't indicated to be taking part in the final episode. Before the second show, Andy Wilman wrote in his blog to "stick with him, because hopefully he gets funnier with repetition"
535:" - so I think we can assume from that, she is a related article. Also, the notability of Schmitz is much higher than that of Bentley. Ask 1,000 TG fans who Schmitz and at least 8 out of 10 would know. I doubt 1 out of 10 would know who Bentley is. There is no crusade against Bentley, we are just using him (and TGD before him) as the yardstick.
509:, so if I am understanding your logic correctly, she shouldn't be listed. To add, every other person listed in the template is very closely tied to the show. Sabine is different as she has only been in 2 or 3 episodes. Have you read the Bentley article? You seem to have this crusade against him. He certainly belongs in the template. --
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We've got to be a bit careful not to set a precedent that every race ends up with an article and in the template. The separate article exists because the race had wider notability beyond Top Gear, and a lot of background information has been published allowing a well referenced article to be written.
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difference between the person who was the producer and editor of the programme for more than a decade (the person who is credited with hiring Jeremy
Clarkson) and someone who has appeared in a couple of features across two episodes. Surely you can see that? Your constant attempts to disrupt this and
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He never was, is, or will be a "presenter". It's just a tounge-in-cheek think that he's credited as such at the end of the programme, in the same way that it was tounge-in-cheek when they went to
America and all the casts names were Americanised. If we took that a face-value the producer would Andy
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So many other topics are included in both of those articles... it doesn't mean we need to clutter up this template with links to them. The question we should ask is "has Top Gear had a major influence on the person's life?" If the answer is yes, they should be listed, if not, then keep them off of
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denied he is credited as a presenter, I've seen the show many times and didn't need the image above to remind me, my point is is the credit justified? As I said in my previous comment, your point about defining vs. citing is a fair one. However I repeat that
Knowledge (XXG) should contain facts, not
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Please lets not start this again. The template is not the place to list everyone who has appeared in a couple of TG features. An appropriate mention in the main TG article (with a wikilink) is sufficient. Please stop being disruptive just because you're unhappy that other people don't agree with
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Sounds to me as though you're making up the criteria as you go along. "Has TG had a significance in their life?" - the answer to that is also yes anyway as it made her a household name and helped get her the job on German TV. "Have they significantly influenced or contributed to TG?" - again the
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Sabine isn't a presenter and isn't listed as so. Neither is Top Gear Dog. What are you moaning about? They are both part of the show and so are listed in others. Are you suggesting they are less important than, for example, Jon
Bentley???? The Stig is listed (wrongly) as a presenter (like you
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Look, we stick to what BBC has done. Top Gear lists him as a presenter, despite the fact he never speaks. Unless you can produce any other verifiable source that The Stig ain't a presenter, then please present your evidence. Otherwise, your edits are unconstructive. Also, i've never expressed any
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Yes he's credited as a presenter on the show's end titles, however no definition of "presenter" could extend to what he does. As well as being described as a presenter he's also given crazy introductions on every episode such as "Some say the outline of his left nipple is exactly the same shape as
1344:", and I can't see that the show has any particular affinity for aqua as a colour that might suggest overriding anyway (such as happens with football team navbox colours). The override should be removed, which will simplify the template and make it more consistent with the rest of the project.
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I'd actually qualify the original criterion to "Has TG had a significance in their life?" and "Have they significantly influenced or contributed to TG?". If the former, than put TG in their article, if the latter then add them to the TG article and associated infoboxes. If both, then it gets
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Gamer, the addition of
Schmitz is nothing to do with the celebrities as they are covered by the Star/Reasonable priced article, Schmitz is worthy more of a related article section and isn't exactly doing any harm leaving it there. The article is certainly more suitable being in there than Jon
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A central pillar of WP is assume good faith. I'm assuming that you are only trying to preserve the quality of the project which is why I've taken the time to respond politely to the queries raised about this subject. Likewise you should assume that I am only trying to ensure the information is
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Seems to me, also, that there is no good reason to change the default colours. Unfortunately, Knowledge (XXG) (particularly the
English Knowledge (XXG)) has lost a lot of its original flavour in trying to become internally consistent and publicly reputable. For that reason, guidelines such as
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Fair doos - it's often good 'be bold'. But if you find your changes get reverted a lot, why not try something different? Create a sandbox on your user page, then post to the template talk page asking people to visit your sandbox and comment on what they think before making the changes. That
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As far as I am aware the race to the north wasn't a special as it did the usual SIARPC and news. I would place it under the epic race category, as they all had breaks for segments in the middle, all specials have just had one segment, that's what made them specials. Also the
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mentioned everywhere. So Sabine's article should mention TG, but she hasn't had a significant contribution to the program over it 6 years, so it doesn't warrant mention within the scope of TG itself. As a producer
Bentley has significantly influenced the program. --
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Yes, I do in fact. And if there's no further argument then this one will be restored to using the standard styling. These are not baubles to decorate as we please, the turquoise makes it harder to pick out links, and there are no arguments whatsoever for keeping it.
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Well, the reason I used blue is because that it's kind of new Top Gear's (well, at least before S8) "colour"... Based really on the blue tinge to the logo. But whatever, I'm always adding colour to templates only to have boring reversions. Par for the course, lol.
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were developed, to ensure consistency throughout and make it easier to read, so that people don't get confused by changes in colours or style. If you can provide a good reason to have something other than the default colours, then I don't oppose it, but without
1284:- the fact he hasn't since reappeared suggests he's not going to (even though, presumably those "stunts" may all have been filmed before the series started airing), and his appearance was therefore insignificant to the long-term history of the show.
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Can I just clarify your point of view here? You are allowed to make edits in contravention of the consensus. Anyone else making edits is told to "discuss changes on the talk page" (see the edit summary on the history page for 18:05 UTC
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and myself, all of whom have now either reverted your edit or explicitly expressed disagreement. Do you need more editors to dispute your interpretation of the credits before you back down, or is three of us enough to avoid edit-warring?
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Who cares about vertical space? I've seen templates far longer than this one. The way it is now, the information is mushed together, while before there were breaks between the various sections, which helped organized the sections.
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the NĂĽrburgring". In my opinion his description as a presenter is as tongue in cheek as those. Important member of the crew? Yes. Presenter? No. An encyclopedia should contain facts, not be constrained by external conventions etc.
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since I didn't get to edit/make the wikipedia page. I'll update it when I watch the sequence 10-01, maybe later today. 41-35 may not be reprised today, I hope that somebody else keeps a eye up for the two first episodes.
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No. She was on 2 or 3 episodes. Bentley was a producer for 10 years. Hardly the same. Dave, on
Knowledge (XXG) it doesn't matter what you feel, you must back things up with evidence. Having Sabine is fancruft.
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which refers to him as a presenter. The credits of the programme do exactly that. You're suggesting that the encyclopedia should dismiss a primary source in favour of your opinion that it's tongue-in-cheek?
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and am more than willing to have my actions subjected to a peer review. In return I will be able to present evidence of the many violations you have made to a variety of policies and guidelines, inluding
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I disagree with you on both matters. I don't think requesting that you leave the template as-is represents an ownership claim at all, merely a belief that you're making something that was accurate less
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You might want to read the discussion regarding TGSM, etc. on the main article page to get a feel for the consensus regarding his listing. It will make things clearer, and spare you a bit of grief.
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this template. The answer is obviously yes for
Clarkson, Tiff, Bentley, etc but can you argue the same for Schmitz? I say no. The numbers you listed provide no source, so they are meaningless. --
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Please stop vandalising the template. By all means discuss a proposed change here (explaining your reasons why you think Sabine qualifies as a presenter) but please don't make changes that you
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My recent edit was just going with the flow, so I guess I don't mind if the format is reverted. The current format is more straightforward, though, regardless of vertical space. Anyone else?
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Yes, the comment about adding all his introductions was not meant to be taken literally. I have to say though, I'm sure you don't mean to be rude but you're comments could be taken as such;
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I have no problem debating matters however I do not appreciate being told to "leave it be". You've done a good job with this template, however the above comment suggests a feeling of
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from the spin-off section to the see also section. This is becasue they're not spin-offs in the sense that most people would think of - just one-off specials for a charity event.
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Your comment about verifiability is a fair one. However using that logic I could edit the Stig article and include every crazy comment that's ever been made in the introduction
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the company said : the BMW 2010 it have tracktion you can't drift but here in saudi arabia we have drift and i have a vidio you can get it from the youtube and this is alink :
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be constrained by external conventions etc. and the fact is that no definition of presenter could be applied to him. Having said all that I don't to intend to remove it again.
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I have added Sabine Schmidt to the infobox as I feel (and others may disagree) that she was/is as much a part of the programme as Jon Bentley was/is. Please discuss.
394:"dubya" Wilman. The Stig should be removed from the presenters and a new section should be added for "Also Starring" which should also include Top Gear Dog and
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My addition of TGSM as a "presenter" was reverted. OK I can accept that if he is not credited as such. How about adding TGSM as a "segment" or a "see also"? –
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Shouldn't Jason Dawe be placed in the Current Format Presenters? He is not a current presenter, but he was a presenter in Series 1 of the current format.
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1378:. If there's no better reason to override than "I like it that way", then the styling should be removed for the sake of code simplicity and consistency.
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I've added "Top Gear's Top 41", maybe it would be cleaner with "Top 41" instead? I've added a pre-alpha list of sequences from each episodes in the
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The Top Gear Nepal Special (Series 28) and the Top Gear Driving Home For Christmas Special (Series 31) are not listed in the "Specials" section.
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If Sabine Schmitz and Top Gear Dog are classed as fancruft in the eyes of DrFrench, then Jon Bentley can certainly be included as Cruft as well.
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Agree it's probably better in a new section - presumably you could slot the US version of the show in there too... I wouldn't be surprised if
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other pages will simply lead to you receiving more and longer bans from editing. It's sad that you choose to be disruptive, but so be it.
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As there's been no better argument provided for these overrides in the last week, I have removed them again as they are discouraged in the
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Thanks folks, I was unaware that he had not reappeared - we are behind on TG episodes here in the US. So no problem leaving it for now.  –
438:). When anyone attempts to discuss it on the talk page you summarily decide that the discussion is at an end. Is that a fair summary?
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So now you two retarded it up last year, are you going to even bother taking Clarkson, May and Hammond out of the template? Pfft...
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I moved the race to the north to the See also section and put Winter Olympics in among the specials. 16:48, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
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Then please report me using the appropriate channels. I happy with I way I have edited this template in trying to keep it with a
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I forgot about this, school, work, and all. Until someone else offers there comments this stays as it was under the consensus.
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346:"Do you need more editors to dispute your interpretation of the credits before you back down, or is three of us enough"
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I've seen other templates use styling and no one makes an argument about those. I think it's fine just the way it is.
380:"ownership" to the template, as other editors have edited it by adding past presenters and deleting my insert of the
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Not doing any harm? You need a better explanation than that as your argument is rather vague. She is covered on
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Furthermore, by that standard (appearing on 2 or 3) episodes, we should list every celebrity that has appeared on
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be added to the "Specials" section? It was a pretty big challenge, and there's a nice detailed article about it.
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Would it be useful to add something like that "Series 10 Episode 5" after each sequences as a back reference?
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Are you just being facetious for the sake of argument, or do you honestly not know the difference between the
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The original production was "Top Gear Top 40" from BBC America, not the BBC. See the talk page above. --
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colours with a sort of aqua colour for no good reason that I can see. There's no reason to do this - the
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doesn't get its own article too soon and I guess someone will want that added to the template as well!
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AHHHH!! The new colors hurt my eyes!! Revert it back to Green or some other soothing color, please!! --
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Well, don't shoot me, but shouldn't Clarkson and May also be listed under Original Format Presenters?
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etc. Please drop me a note on my talk page to advise me which route you are going to take, cheers.
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Overall, I like the original color scheme better. The green feels a little out of place though. --
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Shouldn't Top Gear Dog also be added, seeing as she was introduced as quote, "a new presenter".
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It's not a spin-off, not even a one time. It's clearly a Top Gear Special. Moved accordingly.
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I guess we could. It just depends on where we want to put it. Does it seem appropriate in the
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It has been pointed out to you on more than one occasion (and not just by me) that there is a
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and cite the episode number. Would you really think that was suitable for an encyclopedia?
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French, your aggressive edit-warring is totally uncalled for and is blatant vandalism.
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Then are you going to challenge all the other templates that disobey the doc page?
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is not part of the list and that was their first special that wasn't for charity.
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Oh, I see. Silly spelling mistake. I fixed it now, thank you for pointing it out.
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Apologies if this has been debated already but wondered if there was scope for
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How about using the same shade of blue as the infobox? A bit of consistency?
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Yes, that makes much more sense. I shouldn't edit so early in the morning. --
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a broadcast occurs in March 2016, by April 2016 we should have sufficient
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No. TDG has been done to death elsewhere. Consensus is to exclude it.
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of a light-entertainment show, and the credits at the end? Please see
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Done, as requested. What do other people feel about the colours?
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Just a note that this arbitration case was rejected and deleted. --
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and I never complained or drastically went psycho over the edits. --
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Further, remember that Knowledge (XXG)'s standard for inclusion is
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Right. Any further comments before I restore the default styling?
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Also, why is the Race to the North considered a special episode?
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As there's been no further discussion, I've switched this back.
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There was no consensus, as it hasn't previously been discussed.
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wanted) so I can't see what the problem is. End of discussion.
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I was pointing out your you're/your confusion. You meant that
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more than once. Obviously that makes little little sense. --
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to "define" what a presenter is, we merely need to be able to
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8-JC585m-M&feature=fvwrel
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The previous version of the template was much more organized
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Exactly the point I've tried to get across to this user. --
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will be reverted unless it is to provoke another edit war?
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reason at all, it should be the default navbox colours.
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are controversial without gaining some consensus first.
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to be added to the template as part of the TG family?
1608:(de-indent) I've posted a link to this discussion at
915:approach has worked for me elsewhere. Good luck!
1889:http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Top_Gear%27s_Top_41
1848:in saudi arabia we can make something impossible
1579:I'd like to see that. I see no problem with it.
222:He's credited as a presenter, so leave it be. --
1465:Silence is only consensus until it's challenged
183:. For how to use this banner template, see its
109:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
1342:changing the default styles is not recommended
1133:Looks good. I approve! Thanks for considering
1046:section or should a new tab be created called
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352:could be taken as dimissive and patronising.
332:. I, meanwhile, shall revert the template.
1729:Definitely, I've gone ahead and added it.
330:this BBC guideline for further explanation
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785:Inclusion of John Bentley is 'fancruft'?
1320:So this template overrides the default
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699:...and the decision will be appealed.
193:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Television
169:This template is within the scope of
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1790:I think it should be in "See Also".
731:You are correct. I'll add them. --
669:This has now gone to arbitration -
115:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
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2078:NA-importance television articles
2000:"We'll know it when we see it".
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882:I think that looks quite good. --
276:So, your edit now conflicts with
45:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
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976:Anyone else? Going once.....
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37:Put new text under old text.
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