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586:, however, I think the consensus is that British SOF units that are not part of UKSF should not be termed "special forces". I think this is because doing so can be interpreted to imply they are part of the UKSF directorate, require passing UKSF selection, etc. The "List of military special forces units" article previously included non-UKSF SOF units and that started an edit war, with different people thinking they should or should not be included there. It now only includes units within UKSF (though this became the case after I made the changes to this template IIRC).
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I agree the SF/SOF debate and semantics are difficult to resolve because, by dictionary definition, the terms are synonymous but the presence of units/organisations called "SF" in the UK and US means there is debate as to whether they are in practice. Some wider consensus may be required here going
657:
I think that's fairly accurate; both perform reconnisance in wartime in a similar fashion to the SAS/SBS. In the
Falklands War, the mountain leaders swapped and took over some patrols from the SAS, a pattern which has continued since, so they are very much comparable with UKSF in this regard. Since
601:
Mountain leaders, found in the MLTC and BPT/SRS, are similar in also having to undergo a long and arduous selection and training process before taking on a ISTAR role that conventional forces cannot fulfill. This is detailed in
Boswell's book, though again I can't see any direct description of them
593:
Re: your second point, I think my references in the above comment could have been better. I didn't add any to the template itself because there weren't sources for any other units, but if I had I probably would have chosen stronger references than in the comment above, and included quotes. I wanted
669:
Maritime
Counter Terrorism (MCT) is the specialist role of the SBS in UKSF, in the same way as the land-based domestic CT is the role fulfilled by the SAS. Different Fleet Air Arm units seem to have assisted in MCT missions in the past, including the CHF and 815 NAS's MCT/MI Flight. In a way these
597:
Blakeley's book on the
Pathfinders does not directly define them as SOF or special forces, as far as I can tell. It does, however, describe their selection course and unique role and level of training, detailing how its akin to and modelled on the SAS in many respects. I think, by definition, this
589:
I added the "Other SOF" section because I think the units involved are still relevant to the template (being SOF). At the same time, I also tried to indicate that they fall outside UKSF while doing so, so as to avoid any semantical objections. Maybe there's a clearer name for the subgroup, such as
556:
Special operations forces (SOF) is a term that is used interchangeably with special forces. Using SOF for these units is the same as labelling them a special forces unit. Do any of the three sources that you have provided state that they are a special forces unit or special operations forces? The
1004:
The
Maritime Interdiction (MI) Flight is also part of 815 NAS – 2 double-manned flights held an exceptionally high readiness to support UK Special Forces. It is available for Counter Narcotics, Counter Piracy and Maritime Counter Terrorism operations. The MI Wildcats may be used to providing top
661:
My understanding is that the BPT was indeed created from the cadre to give them a reconnisance-based operational role. There's a lot of overlap between mountain leaders/MLTC/BPT/SRS etc, however, both in individuals being in multiple of those groups and people referring to them interchangably at
631:
My understanding, is that the
Pathfinder Platoon and the Brigade Patrol Troop (BTP) are responsible for medium range reconnaissance. I changed the title of the group from "Other Special Operations Forces" to "Reconnaissance units". I may be wrong; I don't believe that the MLTC has an operational
518:
I have added the
Pathfinder platoon, Brigade Patrol Troop/Surveillance and Reconnisance Squadron, and Mountain Leader Training Cadre within a new subgroup "Other SOF" within the "Related" group. This is because, as was correctly pointed out, they aren't termed "special operations capable". This
923:
The
Special Boat Service (SBS) is Britain's maritime special forces unit. Since the Second World War, its highly trained men have served around the world, on land and at sea, often carrying out daring undercover raids. Today, the SBS leads the United Kingdom's marine counter-terrorism
974:
Two Royal Navy
Wildcats from 815 Naval Air Squadron's dedicated Maritime Counter Terrorism (MCT) Flight, likely carrying the aerial sniper overwatch and command and control elements, and two Royal Navy Merlins from 846 Naval Air Squadron's MCT Flight carrying the assaulters were
632:
role. It is training unit. The BTP was formed from the
Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre (what is now the MLTC) to provide an operational role. Using SOF will always be confusing as it is used interchangeably with SF. It is for example commonly used in NATO.
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I couldn't find any sources that describe the Maritime Interdiction Flight, 815 Naval Air Squadron as SF / SOF. There is very little information on the flight only a brief mention of "Maritime Counter Terrorism".
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they both have arduous and extensive training and selection pipelines and perform missions conventional units cannot, I think they qualify as SOF. I think choosing how to label them is a separate question.
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In addition to their primary role as Mountain and Cold Weather experts, the Mountain Leaders' operational role is Reconnaissance and Surveillance, capable of operating behind enemy lines
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only to refer to the Future Commando Force and Ranger Regiment/ASOB. They are, however, SOF units outside of UKSF - hence why I created this new subgroup.
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417:(MARSOF) have been tasked to operate with a specific MEU. The Pathfinder Platoon and the Brigade Patrol Troop are not special operations-capable forces.--
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The 4 aircraft of the Commando Helicopter Force took off from RNAS Yeovilton at around 1545 and arrived at the SBS headquarters in Poole.
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Mountain commandos at war in the Falklands : the Royal Marines Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre in action during the 1982 conflict
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Re: your first point, I agree that "SOF" and "special forces" are generally interchangable. From previous discussion
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at moment there is a bit of text which seems to be misplaced wiki function, resulting in gibberish under the box:
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491:"Policy for Marine Expeditionary Units (MEU) and MEU Expeditionary Units (Special Operations Capable) MEU(SOC)"
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92:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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created last month. The British Army Special Forces template has essentially the same information as
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In 1992 the cadre was finally given a formal operational role and became Brigade Patrol Troop...
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I added special operations-capable to this template using "Related" as a group title similar to
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the Special Boat Service has been the elite maritime counter-terrorism unit of the Royal Navy
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988:"In focus: the Wildcat multi role helicopter in service with the Royal Navy | Navy Lookout"
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to the template. Your edit summary was "they are, they have the skillset of such". The
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Royal Marines article only uses "elite team" and "specialist team". regards--
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times, so I'm not sure how and when to draw distinctions between them.
316:. It duplicates it and is on several of the same articles. Regards,--
824:"Elite Royal Marines mountain leaders Arctic training, in pictures"
804:. Land Warfare Development Centre. 31 March 2017. p. 7-13. AC 71940
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cover or troop insertion/extraction for the Special Boat Service.
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496:. Marine Corps Order 3120.9C. Department of Navy. 4 August 2009
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958:"Special Boat Service Seize 'Hijacked' Tanker in UK Waters"
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This article incorporates text published under the British
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Pathfinder : a special forces mission behind enemy lines
232:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
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292:. I thought that this may be a suitable compromise for
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I agree that duplication is not helpful. Best wishes.
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List_of_military_special_forces_units#United_Kingdom
463:. London: Ministry of Defence. pp. 12, 46, 68, 69.
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674:, who assist the SAS with land-based domestic CT.
1075:Template-Class European military history articles
799:"Army Doctrine Publication (ADP) Land Operations"
602:being a SOF/special forces unit in there either.
1065:Template-Class British military history articles
413:(MEU). MEU(SOC) is a term used to indicate when
387:. The special operations-capable forces are the
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
1080:European military history task force articles
908:"Special Boat Service | National Army Museum"
8:
1070:British military history task force articles
594:some quick sources to show my general point.
106:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history
783:: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
271:Proposal to add special operations-capable
246:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject United Kingdom
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96:. To use this banner, please see the
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226:This template is within the scope of
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7:
854:Unscathed : escape from Sierra Leone
167:European military history task force
1095:WikiProject United Kingdom articles
880:"Special Boat Service | Royal Navy"
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240:and see a list of open tasks.
856:. London: Macmillan. p. 54.
571:Hi, thanks for your comment.
521:Defence in a Competitive Age
457:Defence in a Competitive Age
407:Marine Air-Ground Task Force
380:Defence in a Competitive Age
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367:Brigade Patrol Troop
992:www.navylookout.com
943:. 28 October 2020.
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