411:, and I've seen no real reason to buy the argument that cleanup templates are inherent badges of shame (no matter how many bad analogies NewsAndEventsGuy has been able to throw at me). You're reading too much into this verbiage; if there are indeed many bad sources in an article, then that is a perfectly legitimate reason to use a cleanup template that says so. Yes, it's great if the tagger has the time to use inline tags on specific sources, but if the problem is general, then a general tag isn't faux pas. Nobody is discrediting an entire topic by saying that the sourcing in its article has issues. I suppose this "some or all" phrasing is a legitimate reason to start an RFC, but this can also easily be seen as tendentious, stirring up a fake outrage for no real reason. The cleanup template's phrasing is already very much watered down, and saying it's oh-so-ghastly is basically assuming bad faith on the part of everyone who uses it. --
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Joy, do you have any suggestions for possible modifications? Also, this isn't really "a fake outrage for no real reason" - I encountered an example that shows how this tag could cause problems with very sensitive topics, and started a RfC from that. As for the deletion suggestion - it could be messy
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I'm entirely unimpressed by your assertion that the tagging of the concentration camp article is a sensitive matter in any way, shape or form. Some people think history articles are sensitive; some other people will think that some other topic about society, philosophy, physics, math, ... toasters,
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I can't say I especially care for this template. I'd much prefer that specific sources of concern be addressed than to blanket an article in this manner. Alternately, I wouldn't necessarily oppose revising the template to link to an appropriate Talk page discussion and read to the effect that "Some
474:. Which is not to say that it's impossible to use a cleanup tag in a duplicitous manner - it is, and in any such case, that's primarily a behavioral issue with the specific user who does so, not a general problem with the tools that they use to abuse Knowledge (XXG). --
470:... is sensitive. This kind of thinking is a slippery slope into self-censorship because oh my, what if someone infers something offensive from whatever we edit? It's just pointless and it's against policy - you need to assume good faith -
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I would think that would be as easy as modifying the template to simply read "section" rather than article. In any case, if you place the template in the appropriate section I suspect most editors will know what you're aiming for.
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I disagree with Joy's reasoning on the badge of shame/don't warn readers thing, and I also disagree that the small handful of eds who opined at the other page constitutes a discussion by the whole community to the "death"...
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have an unreliable source. There is no way to find out why the person who added the template thinks its unreliable. The template can be there forever or not there forever - it adds the same amount of assistance either way.
253:, although the complications that may be associated with them are similar. I noticed a problem here (which I assume can be considered a topic that's sensitive enough for this issue to be a serious one):
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Since this has template protection, I have to just suggest an edit: replace "some" with "some or all" because a draft relies entirely on unreliable sources. If you need the draft: it's
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I agree that adding the option to specifically use this template for a section would not be a lot of work, so it would be nice if someone would implement this. Similar to how
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153:. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
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Basically, the tag risks creating a situation where the whole topic somehow is unduly discredited. The tag should be a less serious variant than
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I thought this template should exist, as I sometimes see articles that use forums, blogs and sites of questionable reliability as sources.-
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An RfC is underway that could affect this template and may therefor be of interest to watchers of this page. The discussion is located at
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Change wording as in the sandbox (adding "improve" between help and article, and change "or deleted" to "and removed").
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Rephrase the first sentence so that it doesn't risk creating excessive "collateral damage" by discrediting reliable data
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Please change {{if affirmed|{{{some|yes}}}|Some|Some or all}} to {{yesno|{{{some|yes}}}|yes=Some|no=Some or all}} per
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Twinkle#RfC regarding
Twinkle maintenance tags that recommend the inclusion of additional sources
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replace "some" with "some or all" because a draft relies entirely on unreliable sources. If you need the draft: it's
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now, so I am not sure if my edit request is needed any longer. I am happy to go with Ahecht's suggestion.
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We've had the implicit-badge-of-shame aspect of all cleanup templates discussed to death already at
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of the sources used in this article have been disputed. Please see the related (discussion link)."
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Suggestion: reconsider the "Some or all " phrasing, introduce anti-"badge of shame" policy, etc.
1009:. I didn't achieve this clarification, which would probably require a compete restructuring of
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Please fix the some parameter so the text says all not some or all. I have done a sandbox at
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801:. If you want to just request someone else to make this later they can follow up below. —
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Jasenovac_concentration_camp&oldid=594810873
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This template already has a "section" option. I'll add it to the documentation.
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of
Knowledge (XXG) articles. If you would like to participate, please visit the
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Knowledge (XXG):Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_March_19#Template:If_affirmed
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Template_talk:Unreferenced#Template-protected_edit_request_on_9_November_2019
238:" phrasing, introduce anti-"badge of shame" policy, etc.": -->
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due to the amount of inclusions this tag has, so I stand neutral on that.
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914:{{yesno|{{{some|yes}}}|yes=Some of this|no=This}} {{{1|article}}}'s ]...
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use the "some" parameter to change it from "Some..." to "Some or all":
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The "All" seems redundant in that case. It might be better to do
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IMO this template adds nothing to an article. Our best article
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includes a talksection parameter. Would that be useful here?
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This tag hasn't been given the same amount of attention as
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Introduce a set of usage notes based on the ones found in
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Template-protected edit request on 19 February 2021
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Template-protected edit request on 10 November 2019
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498:Please make it possible to use this template for
371:, alternatively use the unreferenced templates;
283:(and maybe something from other template docs?)
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
183:subpage. You can create the testcases subpage
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1178:to reactivate your request.
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313:Template talk:Unreferenced
1030:to just suggest an edit:
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759:to the template. Thanks.
612:RfC of potential interest
607:16:54, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
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229:10:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
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317:Template talk:Disputed
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568:Oh, nice; thanks. --
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101:Reliability
84:reliability
59:Reliability
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762:Jalen Folf
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677:Trialpears
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622:John Cline
383:WP:SOFIXIT
376:WP:SOFIXIT
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891:(please
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319:) -
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882:(
827:(
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679:(
624:(
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558:(
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506:(
478:(
451:(
434:(
415:(
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346:(
323:(
294:(
244:]
98:.
42::
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