User talk:Cg2p0B0u8m/Archive 1

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seen a score but from what I can find out I think Hélène (drama) is just incidental music, not operatic. (I have various others of his works in draft to ‘create’ and upload). I suppose when there is more material ‘Twentieth century’ should be sub-divided, and as most composer entries in Knowledge (XXG), more could be said about his musical style (quite interesting, in Messager’s case). I don’t know how the ‘4½ minute’ thing got changed, but I have a feeling those recordings were all in New York and he recorded nothing else. I think he conducted the French premiere of Tosca.

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your article should use the ballet's original French title, which seems to be the one the Messager version goes under even in English language sources. I'll do that in a while. Meanwhile, here's a problem for you to research. I've added the Jules Cheret poster as illustration to your article but note that it is dated as 1911 by one source, while you give the date of the Paris revival of the two-act version as 1912. Possibly the date for the Cheret poster is mistaken, but it might be a good idea to double check your source to see if it is accurate.

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links. (It is always possible the guideline might get reversed again. What a waste of time to be going back and forth!) That's why I feel that adding italics to article titles could be a waste of time too, since that policy may get reversed again as well. (I seem to have noticed you stay away from these issues. I think that's a good idea, and I should try to follow your excellent example!) Anyway, it's great we have an overlapping interest in French opera. I always enjoy seeing your new articles. Best regards, --

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with Désiré. (As well as stage names, single words were once very common in French entertainment – eg for people like Armand Ménard or André Robert Raimbourg.) To be consistent it would be necessary to change various people from their stage names; for instance why is there no main article (and no use of the same words within other articles) ‘Louis Auguste Florimond Ronger’? On Désiré, this is the article in Gänzl, and how he is referred to in the other references in the article.

1920:(Amadeus almanac is of course an admirable effort, but I don’t see its relevance in this situation, nor is it really a reliable source (particulary as I have cited better). I’ve just checked for a few things I remember from previous visits; Pierre Monteux still dies twice, a French singer gives a performance a month after being recorded as having died, Deloffre is constantly given the name Alphonse… those are just from my limited use over a short period) 585: 2774: 31: 1081: 2524:(I see you have now dealt with this) I think I needed an article on this theatre to help with links, so I translated the French one, but had to expand the references so where possible I used the (excellent) comédie musicale site. The Chateau d’Enfer appears in the French article in 2009, so I must have decided to leave it in, even without a reference. The tenor Montaubry took it over at some point, I think after the Montrouges. 893: 1219: 1700:(No distinction is made either for nationality or for the number of words in a stage name.) Désiré is the article in Gänzl and as far as I can see this is what is used at every point he is mentioned in Traubner: p20 (twice - I put on the article talk page), p42, p44, p77 and in contemporary documents. The sources used to compile the article show that, and I am happy to defer to 2618: 1962:) should? If so, what is the distinction? If you can explain the difference, I may still not agree with you, but at least I would be able to understand your thinking on this. (If you can also provide some examples of the Désiré type on Knowledge (XXG) that would also be helpful. I've tried but I can't find even one of them.) -- 2639:

is currently developing new tools to make new page patrolling much easier. Whether you have patrolled many pages or only a few, we now need to know about your experience. The survey takes only 6 minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist us

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Thank you, I do have some more in mind. I try if possible only to create or make major changes if I have seen or heard a piece (whether Offenbach, Sallinen, or whoever) otherwise things sometimes go wrong. Madame Papillon seems to belong in the more outrageous category, but unfortunately I don't know

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If the problem is dealing with identical names, there appear currently to be over 50 John Smiths in Knowledge (XXG) (just that spelling, just 2 words, no initials or other names), so I am sure it could easily cope if someone decided eventually to create an article on the other Désiré. But in any case

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Hi. I found updated links to two of the links that you deleted. When you see a broken link, instead of deleting it, would you please try to updated it? Otherwise, what happens is that the articles become unreferenced, even though there are perfectly good updated links on the internet. Thanks! --

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Thanks - much better now. On the basis of you actually having a copy of the programme, I could go ahead and ref the UCO production, unless you'd prefer to do it yourself. It will need two, at the first mention in the text, and again at the cast list. Any thoughts on whether it's worthwhile for me to

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Noted, thanks. You may have noticed I produced an article on Rosita Mauri. To my frustration, I couldn't find a biography online about Marie Sanlaville, although there are plenty of details here and there about her career, her friends, and even the guy who died in her lodgings. Do you have access to

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Therefore 'Désiré' (stage name) should be the article in Knowledge (XXG). It is in Gänzl, and as far as I can see this is what is used at every point he is mentioned in Traubner: p20, p42, p44, p77, and in contemporary documents. The sources used to compile the article show that, and I (and it seems

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of artists for whom the article in Knowledge (XXG) (and where relevant Grove) is actually the stage name, not the full name. So if we have an article for Amable Désiré Courtecuisse (full name) why is there no article for Jean-Émile Diogène Marcoux, Zulma Madeleine Boufflar, Sophie Johanne Charlotte

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Thanks for your kind comment on the BSO discussion page. Unfortunately, our 'friend' Sbonsor, who doesn't know how to make all the edits on a page at once and then save it, is back and put back a bunch of the subjective POV text. Edit wars on the BSO page are on the horizon. I haven't yet written

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My problem was that the Mackerras succession box showed Elder coming next, not Groves (I've fixed that). The box in the Elder article was correct. There's no box in the Groves article (or in the Balkwill/Bernardi ones). Anyway, I've now got all the details from Opera Grove, so I'm going to update

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Thanks for all your help with links, translations, etc! Did I leave something out concerning Montaubry in the Folies Marigny article? It may have been inadvertant rather than intentional. I did this in a hurry when I was tired. The article needs cleaning up with regard to refs in particular. I just

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changed, so now it is no longer recommended to link every row in a table. I have no strong feelings about this issue, but was just trying to comply with the former guideline. However, even considering that I followed the previous guideline for a lot our tables, I have no plans to go around removing

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I have said before how easy it would be to have this article with its original name and that name used within other articles, and illustrated this by citing the situation with all the John Smiths (22 and 23 December above) – that is the beauty of the links in Knowledge (XXG); one can say goodbye to

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Congratulations on at last getting round to creating the separate article on this ballet. I'm impressed that you did it on Chrsitmas Day. I've now edited down my treatment of the operas in the fable article, as promised, and will create a link to your article. In order to remove ambiguity, I think

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Despite the fact that the Knowledge (XXG) guidance does not make any distinction about the number of words, I have (along with multiple words) pointed out several examples of single word stage names, such as Dranem and Bourvil (21 Dec) and Hervé (three times). There may of course be others I don't

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There is probably more to say about P&M (I am currently reading Mouvement Contraire by Inghelbrecht which has various mentions) and his conducting career. I personally prefer standard encyclopedia practice in naming the place of birth and death in the first sentence. Unfortunately I have never

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Yes Amadeus very often gives a full name of some sort instead of stage name for performers, such as Aimable Courtecuisse "Désiré" (ie things like “Anna Selina "Nancy" Storace”*) so it's not a reliable source for getting correct names. (As well as my previous comments re Amadeus reliability above,

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Thank you for your replies. The section on stage names in the ‘Naming conventions’ link is useful. I think the problem is that sometimes the professional/stage name of a person is not used either as a title for an article in Knowledge (XXG) or as mentioned within articles (eg cast lists), as here

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Thanks - I was only looking pre-Mackerras and missed the mistake after... I have just checked the New Grove dates in the Nancy Phelan biography of Mackerras (1987) and that book confirms his ENO appointment as January 1970 to December 1977. I'll think about the Opera Project and see if I can put

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I have linked to, I am suggesting that Désiré was the ‘Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens’ for this performer and is ‘used most often to refer to person in reliable sources’ and should be the title for this article, as per the guidance, and indeed how he should be linked to in other

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I find the insistence on long baptismal(?) names for French performers perplexing. It does not appear to be used in major books (such as Grove, Gänzl, Traubner in this case) and seems anachronistic to do so. As was pointed out above, other people in Knowledge (XXG) follow the general naming

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I am sure it is possible to find lots of websites like the movie site where their policy is to use some sort of full name (just as Amadues Almanac); I’ve no idea what kind of editorial control takes place with them (out of interest, Hervé is given as Florimond Ronger "Hervé"...).

1880:? The guidance states ‘The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources’ (not ‘full name’ and no qualification for number of words) ‘even if it is not their real name’ – as in the case of Désiré (for which I have offered two reliable sources: Gänzl and Traubner). 1325:

I see that the article is based on French Knowledge (XXG), where the title is Désiré (acteur). My French isn't good enough to know whether "acteur" encompasses singers. He doesn't seem to be in Grove Opera. I remember coming upon a lot of these one-word names when working on

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the beauty of Knowledge (XXG) is that via the link with the correct stage name page you can offer the reader the extra information about the person without having spell it out in full everywhere. (In this example in other words, the re-direct if needed goes the opposite way.)

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I don't think Harding is an accurate source for the correct spelling of French names. All of the changes you have been making based on Harding appear to be inaccurate. The former spellings are congruent with major reference works on biographical entries (such as the

708:)? I see that you've been around here for some time and have done lots of opera stuff. And you might think of putting something (anything!) on your user page so that your signature changes from red to blue (or green, or blue and green, or whatever). Best. -- 2424:

Most stimulating additions to the talk page today, for which I am most grateful. Please don't worry about rushing to add the rest of your comments. There is absolutely no hurry whatever. I look forward to your comments at such time as is convenient to you.

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My only edit to this box has been the addition of Balkwill and Bernardi on the Mackerras page. Grove actually gives Groves as musical director from 1977-9 (ie two seasons). Mackerras is given as 1970-77; Elder followed immediately after Groves.

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Thank you for pointing it out. When you explained the first time, it actually seemed very sensible to have links whichever way the table is sorted... but there are many baffling things on Knowledge (XXG). Very nice article about Cabel!

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mention the full name in the main article on the performer or make the necessary distinctions, (as Knowledge (XXG) does for John Smith etc), but always use their correct stage name in all other mentions of the person (eg cast lists).

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Thanks for all your research and input into the article over its lifetime. Tim has successfully pushed it through promotion to GA, and your contributions have been central to its development. Congratulations! Happy editing! --

2544:. Sometimes, unless you try it, it is difficult to envision whether it will work or not. Anyway, after I got Yon's book, it started to clear up a lot of questions and got me to thinking that this might be a better way to do it. -- 1277:

and related articles, but, provided there are redirects, it isn't really a big problem, unless someone well-known under one name has an article with a less well-known title. I remember when someone had John Adams the composer as

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anything from it, so would have to rely on Yon and maybe one or two other places for a very short article... I can certainly do some more, although I have mislaid my Swedish TV recordings which would help in making some of them.

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Update: I found a very interesting looking book on Google Books with a snippet view which definitely mentions it, since it says it was built in 1848 and was located across from the Cirque national, which was the name of the

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I have put some more information from several other sources. The Rosenthal is fully indexed and the seasons are detailed chronologically, so I don't think there is a need for each separate page - it should be easy to check

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who is working on the Bizet article has kindly looked up some info on JO's and Bizet's relationship which rather bears out your remarks on the talk page. I'll incorporate this info in the next week or so, as time permits.

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Indeed, if you look at his page on the ‘Encyclopedie de Comedie Musicale en France’ site you will also see the cover of Dranem’s only novel, where again his ‘Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens’ is used (see

1585:"Knowledge (XXG) seems also to use stage names both for the above people, and artists associated with Gilbert and Sullivan such as George Rutland Fleet, Margaret Florence Greig (aka ‘Jack’), and William Martyn-Green," 1741:

I have distinguished between 'stage names' that are pseudonyms and 'stage names' that function as nicknames. The WP naming convention clearly refers to pseudonyms (see the reference to 'real names'. (It doesn't mean

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I have added a lot of information, images etc to this article, to which you were earlier a substantial contributor, and I have nominated it for peer review. Any suggestions there will be most gratefully received. —

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by anyone, though there is some confusion about which given names to include, and which to leave out. This is obviated in many cases by following Grove, and any other sources that may be available. (I'm personally

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there was probably only one 'Fanchon' or whoever. That sense is lost in later periods. We can't refer to artists of the past using this kind of shorthand - unless of course they happened to have unique names (like

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I am sorry if you feel I am wasting time; I raised Marcoux, Boufflar, and Crüwell again not because of lack of disagreement, but because of inconsistency. I wasn't aware that you had dealt with them – they have

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to mean extended baptismal names. (I have already dealt with Marcoux, Boufflar, and Crüwell, see my previous message.) Let's not spend time discussing non-controversial subjects where there is no disagreement.

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are the "reliable sources" that refer to Désiré (one word)? As noted above, Amadeus Almanac refers to 'Aimable Courtecuisse "Désiré" and Grove, the main reference for singers, does not use ambiguous article

2567: 2130:. When compiling the article and since, I have not found a reference in a book or cast list where he is given a full name rather than his usual ‘Nickname, pen name, stage name, cognomen’. You refer to 1106:

to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

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etc, rather than their 'nickname-style' stage names 'Fanchon' etc. There are probably numerous other examples. (Many 18th and 19th century French singers listed in Amadeus had this kind of name.)

1468:, nor as I mentioned before, Louis Auguste Florimond Ronger. Knowledge (XXG) seems also to use stage names both for the above people, and artists associated with Gilbert and Sullivan such as 528: 2115:; and mentioned them both on this present talk topic on (c) 23 Dec and, (d) 1 January. During preparation for the article I looked at some contemporary books but none use a longer name. 2111:

You ask for "reliable sources" that refer to Désiré as one word. I have already given Gänzl and Traubner (a) naturally in the article which I created, (b) I quoted from Traubner on that

1282:, which is ridiculous, but it got changed to something more sensible. What were the changes that concerned you? (Feel free to email me if you don't want to do this in public.) Best. -- 1654:

I am sorry if I have confused the issue by bringing in Gilbert and Sullivan or popular singers – this was just to check how other areas of Knowledge (XXG) are dealing with stage names.

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I still do not understand this method, nor that it is "normal" either for Grove, or Knowledge (XXG). It would take time to do a thorough check, but my impression is that Grove uses

104:. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Knowledge (XXG). If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place 556:

Hi. This is just a note to say that I've edited this to our usual style. We have a particular way of capitalizing foreign titles. This is explained on an Opera Project page, see

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For Fanchon Moreau and Louison Moreau: If these are the ‘names used most often to refer to these persons’ in reliable sources then the Knowledge (XXG) articles are well titled.

1536:"my impression is that Grove uses stage names, not full names. They don’t have Jean-Émile Diogène Marcoux, or Zulma Madeleine Boufflar or Sophie Johanne Charlotte Crüwell . . . 1781: 2486:

for the string "chateau", but did not turn up anything, so maybe that's not where it came from. Do you happen to remember the source where you found it? Thanks for help! --

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as per Grove - with redirects of course" did not mean full baptismal names and I am sorry if you feel that was directed to you. I have already shown cases where in fact

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Incidentally, Désiré Courtecuisse might be better than Amable Désiré Courtecuisse. (I couldn't find a good source to decide this.) BTW he was a singer, not an actor. --

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The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title, even if it is not their "real" name.

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The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title, even if it is not their "real" name.

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1. There is a difference between the French style 'stage name' (like 'Désiré') which functioned like a nickname, and a full-name pseudonyms offering an alternative

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or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Knowledge (XXG) you might want to consider being "

598: 2187:(Blackwell, Oxford, 1994) they are given one word entries with their original name in square brackets, respectively as BOURVIL and DRANEM (Dranem – under D) 2409:

I've followed up your most interesting contribution to the talk page, and would be grateful for your further thoughts following my two-penn'orth on that page.

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It's quite likely that I did set up the box and, if so, I missed a crucial "|" after the role type line. Anyway, it's fixed assuming that José Lens is Alexei.

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Up to now we haven't used Mlle, Mme etc in cast lists, especially as voice type is given. Is it possible to leave it out in future? Is that OK? Thanks. --

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Yes, congratulations I noticed you made some massive improvements with also some good graphics. I will try to read it through and see what to suggest.

275: 135: 2198:, so that’s good, his entry is just right, and that is exactly how, with due regard to the Knowledge (XXG) guidance, we should deal with our friend 2084: 1877: 1819: 1688: 1270: 1269:

Hi. Nothing much in the Opera Project guidelines, except that Grove and Grove Opera are our main reference tools. Knowledge (XXG) guidelines are

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anything on Sbonsor's page, since s/he will probably take anything that I saw as an affront. Let me know what you think, and thanks again,

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My position on this is explained in my last message above is line with Grove. (I have yet to find a Grove bio title that I disagree with.)

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Re. Hervé – there is no singling out of composers in the Knowledge (XXG) naming guidance (just ‘a person’ – see above) His full name was

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http://www.lesgensducinema.com/affiche_acteur.php?mots=bourvil&nom_acteur=BOURVIL&ident=6650&debut=0&record=1&from=ok

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Thanks for the new reference, but can you complete the author's name? You have "Adam N." Also, is there a page number? Thanks! --

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the list of Music Directors in the ENO article and put in the missing boxes. I'd have done that last night, but it was getting late.

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are the ones that are used in reliable sources on the subject and the names which are almost always used to refer to that person.

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they are examples of? That way we can define the issues involved and work towards resolving them. Thanks in anticipation. Best. --

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kindly looked out for information about Bizet's continuing relations with Offenbach. Footnote 2 of the Bizet article is very much

1959: 1596:(apparently George Rutland Barrington-Fleet was his baptismal name and he shortened it). Margaret Florence Greig (aka ‘Jack’) is 1300: 123: 2699:

The Fauré piano music article is now a candidate for featured article if you care to look in and comment, support, or oppose at

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if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the

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point to his pseudonym, so no problem there.) P.S. Can you provide links for your examples? That would be appreciated. --

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A large number of French singers were known by nickname-like stage names: for example (in the 17th century) 'Fanchon' (

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Fine, thank you. The more one reads, the more the general level of abuse and criticism of Offenbach seems remarkable.

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I have this article up for peer review, if it would interest you to look in. All comments most gratefully received.

2157: 2781: 2578:, and I have told Brian, who is nothing loth, that I shall be stealing it for the Offenbach article in due course. 1553:. None of these are one-word stage names. Vanni Marcoux was an informal childhood name + surname (like for example 929: 919: 38: 2302: 1103: 402: 291: 258: 1274: 1011: 944: 398: 389: 358: 193: 127: 97: 1753:'stage names' like 'Désiré'? Are you saying that Grove and Knowledge (XXG) are wrong in entitling the articles 438: 433: 131: 2759: 2743: 2644:

If this invitation also appears on other accounts you may have, please complete the survey once only.

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I have not seen any Knowledge (XXG) rule which stipulates the number words in a person’s stage name/article.

1557:). Bouffar is simply a variant of Boufflar. Cruvelli italianized her name because she had a career in Italy. 1387: 1336: 1327: 1288: 714: 667: 606: 2369:

Good work on the Offenbach operettas. I don't know if you plan on doing any more, but it seems to me that

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You are receiving this invitation because you have patrolled new pages. For more information, please see

2549: 2514: 2491: 2338: 892: 1409:). Given that we can use redirects I don't see this as a big problem. One point worth making is that for 1092: 487: 385: 371: 317: 226: 1575: 904: 841: 2541: 925: 367: 189: 2790: 2598: 2529: 2463: 2393: 2354: 2241: 2207: 2000: 1925: 1721: 1501: 1360: 1207: 1176: 1133: 939: 855: 814: 731: 687: 618: 47: 17: 2647:

If this has been sent to you in error and you have never patrolled new pages, please ignore it.

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but may not address your problem. I've noticed one or two name revisions recently, particularly in

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If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

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Oh, and by the way, on a completely different subject: I located the complete music for Sauguet's

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on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a

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Great - he was a incredibly interesting man. The article could probably do with a bit of polish.

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Hi. This is just a note to say that the Opera Project has a standard style for role tables, see

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Regarding your three examples, I don't think they help us. Two are unsourced. It's likely that

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in analyzing the results of the survey; the WMF will not use the information to identify you.

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Hi. I've just seen your excellent new article on Berthelier. However can I make two requests:

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copy my message to a different location. I'd prefer my message to remain where I posted it. --

789: 141: 1305:"We normally use full names rather than stage names as per Grove - with redirects of course." 1110: 809:

I think the first name of the author was Nick; it comes from under the entry for 'Masterson'.

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as per Grove - with redirects of course." (I have copied Knowledge (XXG) guidance is below)

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Thank you for the Rosenthal additions. Could you rustle up the page numbers, perchance?

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I was wondering where the name Château d'Enfer came from. I searched this site using

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to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click

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that supports at least one statement made about the person in the article as per our

2293: 2281: 2105: 1743: 1705: 1546: 1542: 1224: 1019: 966: 870: 796: 639: 2134:; please show me where pseudonyms are mentioned for guidance in naming of articles? 2310: 2017:

I'm a little disappointed that you haven't answered the specific question I asked (

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was a pseudonym as well. He's referred to as 'Armand Dranem' on other sites (e.g.

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Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates/Piano music of Gabriel Fauré/archive1

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http://www.lesgensducinema.com/affiche_acteur.php?nom=DRANEM%20&from=dvdtoile

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should be re-named. IMDB website may have full names but do the films themselves?

1711:(Was he ever referred to as ‘Amable’ or M Courtecuisse or Désiré Courtecuisse? ) 2789:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

2161: 2021:) which might have taken this discussion forward. Anyway, to clarify one point: 1415: 1370: 748: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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2. Can you please add the WikiProject Opera banners to the relevant talk pages?

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I understand your original statement on amending the article "We normally use

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I hope my short reference to 'full name' in an edit summary is now understood

911: 829: 2738:, and have virtually no access to information other than from physical CDs.) 1826:(just like Désiré) ‘used most often to refer to a person’ (just like Désiré). 1171:

But anyway it’s a very good article now! I will try to think of more to say.

1517: 1044:

1. Can you please follow the capitalization rules at The Opera project, see

1303:? As I wrote when I moved 'Desiré (actor)' to Amable Désiré Courtecuisse: 2653: 2052: 1488:

guideline; as I mentioned, there are Dranem and Bourvil but no entry for

1378: 138:

for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to

2734:, if you might care to look at these, or refer them to another editor. ( 2617: 2593:

Thanks for letting me know. Yes the Bizet article is a big improvement.

1381:) also came into my mind when I was musing on such things last night. -- 529:

Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject_Opera/Article_styles_and_formats#Role_tables

2148: 2048: 2040: 1374: 122: 1791:. That demonstrates how impractical it can be to use only one name.-- 2252:

some outline details of where she was born, trained, died and buried?

2144: 2120: 2044: 1657:

Your original statement on amending the article was "We normally use

1779:

The Amadeus Almanac refers to 'Aimable Courtecuisse "Désiré" ' see

2659:

Many thanks in advance for providing this essential feedback.

2055:

was principally a composer and it's clear that 'reliable sources'

1689:

The Knowledge (XXG) guidance linked to in the first comment states

1622:

in favour of putting a long string of names in the article title.)

558:

Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject_Opera#Operas:_original_language_titles

2141:

You query the veracity of the stage names ‘Dranem’ and ‘Bourvil’.

1602:(her married name, not a pseudonym), and William Martyn-Green is 1109:

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious

2540:

wanted to see whether it would work as a separate article from

682:

Could you say what exactly needs sorting out re Groves? Thanks

2768: 2123:

for other problems). *which of course should not be re-named.

1761:

etc and if so why? Where are the articles on 'Fanchon' etc. --

1590:

Is this relevant? In Knowledge (XXG), George Rutland Fleet is

25: 2328:

Perhaps you already noticed, that Kleinzach was able to get

341: 176: 87: 2616: 1714:(I am still perplexed by Louis Auguste Florimond Ronger...) 1079: 601:

at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

583: 531:

and we don't use bold for role names. Thanks and regards. --

1121:). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found 1851:(not to mention many other areas of Knowledge (XXG)) “use 2730:

I've just now left two new separate sections at Franck's

1608:(another shortening). (None of them are listed in Grove.) 2153:

These French sites have the stage names which they used.

1785:. If you search for Désiré alone you get 12 pages, see 1673:

Crüwell – all of which are ‘full names’? Because their

2265:

on YouTube and provided references in the WP article.

1516:

We are talking about 'nickname-style' 'stage names',

1102:

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not

2108:

in matters relating to operetta and musical comedy.

2287:Hi! It seems you recently created an unreferenced 1480:, and probably lots of others I don’t know about. 2566:While researching for this article (which he now 653:Succession boxes - Mackerras; Sadlers Wells: --> 2100:others on Knowledge (XXG)) am happy to defer to 116:and ask your question there. Please remember to 1995:know about. I hope this answers your question. 704:Have you thought of joining the Opera Project ( 2169:http://194.254.96.53/cm/?for=fic&cleint=95 1627:I hope this is clearer now. P.S. BTW could we 2162:http://dvdtoile.com/Filmographie.php?id=17963 638:. Can you add a page number(s), please? -- 590:Hello, Cg2p0B0u8m. You have new messages at 8: 2091:Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens 1849:‘We’/existing Knowledge (XXG) opera articles 1822:Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens 1694:Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens 1099:at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC). 130:" by a more experienced editor or joining a 2176:http://dvdtoile.com/Filmographie.php?id=708 1631:examples before we list them - and decide 1511:We need to be rigorously clear about this. 1087:Hello. Your account has been granted the " 887: 2754:add anything about the piano reductions? 908:was updated with a fact from the article 2373:deserves an article. All the best! -- 2043:, a pseudonym, should be André Bourvil, 869:It is looking much better. Thanks! -- 661:? Some sorting-out seems necessary. -- 1946:one-word stage-named individuals (e.g. 1615:"insistence on long baptismal(?) names" 1247:Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians 980:Copying my message to the Opera Project 227:Where to ask questions or make comments 2787:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1562:2. On the other hand, Grove does give 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 7: 2506:when first built. Here is the link: 1680:That’s fine, of course, because you 1474:Margaret Florence Greig (aka ‘Jack’) 2185:Encyclopedia of the Musical Theatre 194:The five pillars of Knowledge (XXG) 2236:reference to 1912 revival added. 828:Hi, just took an interest in your 762:Mlle, Mme etc in cast lists (e.g. 100:to Knowledge (XXG)! Thank you for 24: 2082:Reminding myself again about the 1445:Thanks for the further comments. 1119:Knowledge (XXG):Reviewing process 962:Hi, I've moved your comment here 2772: 2635:Hello Cg2p0B0u8m/Archive 1! The 2612: 1668:Anyway, I have been giving some 1466:Sophie Johanne Charlotte Crüwell 1217: 891: 634:Hello. You added a citation to 121: 83: 29: 2309:as soon as possible. Thanks! -- 2019:"Are you suggesting . . . etc." 832:article and nominated it for a 232:Request administrator attention 148: 2570:, should you care to look in) 2454:19:59, 29 September 2011 (UTC) 2192:Louis Auguste Florimond Ronger 2143:It is extremely unlikely that 1520:, common names and full names. 1369:In slightly different fields, 1233:20:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC) 1212:19:05, 12 September 2010 (UTC) 574:00:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC) 1: 2764:23:03, 18 December 2011 (UTC) 2748:02:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC) 2692:18:58, 11 November 2011 (UTC) 2319:00:10, 18 February 2011 (UTC) 1940:Let's try to cut to the chase 1805:01:48, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 1775:01:37, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 1726:18:15, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 1649:04:52, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 1506:17:35, 22 December 2010 (UTC) 1432:09:14, 22 December 2010 (UTC) 1418:) that remain unambiguous. -- 1393:16:49, 21 December 2010 (UTC) 1365:12:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC) 1342:10:57, 21 December 2010 (UTC) 1321:06:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC) 1294:19:00, 20 December 2010 (UTC) 1196:13:36, 7 September 2010 (UTC) 1091:" userright, allowing you to 1006:14:21, 22 December 2009 (UTC) 879:21:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC) 860:23:35, 27 November 2009 (UTC) 846:23:20, 27 November 2009 (UTC) 819:20:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC) 805:23:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC) 737:17:41, 4 September 2009 (UTC) 720:14:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC) 693:10:18, 3 September 2009 (UTC) 674:00:31, 3 September 2009 (UTC) 276:Biographies of living persons 172: 2713:18:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC) 2677:Piano music of Gabriel Fauré 2603:22:08, 4 November 2011 (UTC) 2588:14:44, 24 October 2011 (UTC) 2289:biography of a living person 2085:The Knowledge (XXG) guidance 1583:3. Regarding the statement: 1534:1. Regarding the statement: 1071:03:53, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 975:12:31, 9 December 2009 (UTC) 950:09:21, 1 December 2009 (UTC) 784:01:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC) 757:00:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC) 726:something on the user page. 623:21:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 2554:21:43, 17 August 2011 (UTC) 2534:17:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC) 2519:00:43, 17 August 2011 (UTC) 2496:22:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC) 2468:20:50, 3 October 2011 (UTC) 2435:16:50, 26 August 2011 (UTC) 2419:13:18, 12 August 2011 (UTC) 2398:17:00, 10 August 2011 (UTC) 2275:03:37, 9 January 2011 (UTC) 2246:00:38, 6 January 2011 (UTC) 2232:13:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC) 2212:00:37, 6 January 2011 (UTC) 2073:02:36, 5 January 2011 (UTC) 2005:21:06, 3 January 2011 (UTC) 1976:00:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC) 1930:13:56, 1 January 2011 (UTC) 1541:Grove gives Vanni-Marcoux ( 1260:22:49, 7 October 2010 (UTC) 1181:13:48, 19 August 2010 (UTC) 1160:11:52, 19 August 2010 (UTC) 1028:18:36, 2 January 2010 (UTC) 545:23:33, 18 August 2008 (UTC) 301:Policy for non-free content 272:What Knowledge (XXG) is not 2833: 2439:Good work on the article! 2383:23:53, 8 August 2011 (UTC) 2359:19:29, 29 April 2011 (UTC) 2343:21:12, 28 April 2011 (UTC) 1942:; Are you suggesting that 1746:should be retitled Elvis.) 1458:Jean-Émile Diogène Marcoux 1301:Amable Désiré Courtecuisse 1057:Thanks and best wishes. -- 222:Frequently Asked Questions 120:on talk pages by clicking 1275:Benvenuto Cellini (opera) 1138:19:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC) 1093:review other users' edits 1012:Les cloches de Corneville 549: 163:06:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC) 2263:Les Caprices de Marianne 2128:Knowledge (XXG) Guidance 1985:Knowledge (XXG) guidance 1878:Knowledge (XXG) guidance 1462:Zulma Madeleine Boufflar 190:Knowledge (XXG) Tutorial 988:to the discussion, but 984:I'd be grateful if you 955:Your comment regarding 930:Did you know? talk page 648:23:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 607:The Gambler (Prokofiev) 430:Pages needing attention 425:Help develop an article 241:Policies and Guidelines 2621: 2609:New Page Patrol survey 2484:Google Advanced Search 1954:be so entitled, while 1084: 1076:You are now a Reviewer 736:ENO;_Elder_.....": --> 692:ENO;_Elder_.....": --> 673:ENO;_Elder_.....": --> 588: 2785:of past discussions. 2620: 2194:; his stage name was 2126:But as stated above: 1872:Where are pseudonyms 1613:4. AFAIK there is no 1576:Juliette Simon-Girard 1083: 587: 250:Neutral point of view 42:of past discussions. 2303:verifiability policy 2261:and an excerpt from 1478:William Martyn-Green 1470:George Rutland Fleet 1328:Geneviève de Brabant 443:Translating articles 359:Adopt-a-user program 327:Conflict of interest 267:No original research 18:User talk:Cg2p0B0u8m 2365:Offenbach operettas 1874:clearly referred to 1280:John Coolidge Adams 1250:) of those singers. 1239:Harding as a source 1034:Berthelier (singer) 636:Theatre in my blood 377:No personal attacks 140:always fill in the 2736:I'm not a musician 2626:New page patrol – 2622: 1749:So let's focus on 1593:Rutland Barrington 1456:. They don’t have 1085: 884:DYK for Bill Inman 599:remove this notice 589: 439:Join a WikiProject 421:Be bold in editing 381:Resolving disputes 102:your contributions 2820: 2819: 2797: 2796: 2791:current talk page 2673: 2672: 2668: 2628:Survey Invitation 2404:Jacques Offenbach 2119:see, for example 1983:According to the 1907:impracticalities. 1599:Florence St. John 936: 935: 790:Valerie Masterson 654:ENO; Elder ..... 520: 519: 516: 515: 512: 511: 364:Assume good faith 338: 337: 288:Three-revert rule 171: 170: 146:. Happy editing! 77: 76: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2824: 2806: 2799: 2798: 2776: 2775: 2769: 2727:Hi Cg2p0B0u8m-- 2663: 2613: 2217:Les Deux Pigeons 2102:Richard Traubner 2069: 2064: 1972: 1967: 1801: 1796: 1771: 1766: 1706:Brian Roy Gallas 1702:Richard Traubner 1645: 1640: 1572:Marie Le Rochois 1428: 1423: 1405:) and 'Maupin' ( 1377:(not to mention 1317: 1312: 1221: 1090: 1067: 1062: 1036:and two requests 1002: 997: 947: 942: 900:December 1, 2009 895: 888: 780: 775: 602: 592:Whpq's talk page 570: 565: 541: 536: 497:Useful templates 355:Community Portal 342: 305:Image use policy 254:Reliable sources 177: 173: 166: 165: 159: 154: 125: 110: 109: 88: 84: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2832: 2831: 2827: 2826: 2825: 2823: 2822: 2821: 2802: 2773: 2725: 2680: 2631: 2611: 2564: 2542:Théâtre Marigny 2480: 2407: 2371:Madame Papillon 2367: 2326: 2324:Links in tables 2299:reliable source 2285: 2219: 2067: 2062: 1970: 1965: 1799: 1794: 1769: 1764: 1643: 1638: 1551:Sophie Cruvelli 1494:Léonie Cooreman 1490:Sacha Alexandre 1426: 1421: 1407:Julie d'Aubigny 1315: 1310: 1267: 1241: 1147: 1097:two-month trial 1088: 1078: 1065: 1060: 1038: 1015: 1000: 995: 982: 960: 945: 940: 923: 886: 867: 826: 793: 778: 773: 768: 764:Robinson Crusoé 744: 656: 632: 611: 603: 596: 581: 568: 563: 554: 539: 534: 525: 467: 413: 386:Build consensus 347: 323:Deletion policy 284:Manual of Style 242: 214: 204:upload an image 182: 181:Getting Started 167: 157: 152: 147: 107: 106: 82: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2830: 2828: 2818: 2817: 2812: 2807: 2795: 2794: 2777: 2767: 2766: 2724: 2719: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2715: 2679: 2674: 2671: 2670: 2661: 2658: 2656:to take part. 2649: 2648: 2645: 2633: 2624: 2610: 2607: 2606: 2605: 2563: 2558: 2557: 2556: 2522: 2521: 2479: 2476: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2472: 2471: 2470: 2406: 2401: 2366: 2363: 2362: 2361: 2325: 2322: 2284: 2279: 2278: 2277: 2254: 2253: 2218: 2215: 2182: 2178: 2174: 2172: 2165: 2164: 2160: 2156: 2154: 2152: 2142: 2093: 2089: 2080: 2079: 2078: 2077: 2076: 2075: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2010: 2009: 2008: 2007: 1992: 1989: 1937: 1936: 1935: 1934: 1933: 1932: 1913: 1912: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1908: 1899: 1898: 1897: 1896: 1895: 1894: 1886: 1885: 1884: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1865: 1864: 1863: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1832: 1831: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1810: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1759:Louison Moreau 1755:Fanchon Moreau 1747: 1739: 1732: 1696: 1692: 1652: 1651: 1624: 1623: 1610: 1609: 1588: 1580: 1579: 1568:Louison Moreau 1564:Fanchon Moreau 1559: 1558: 1539: 1531: 1530: 1522: 1521: 1513: 1512: 1496:etc. Thanks. 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1435: 1434: 1411:contemporaries 1403:Louison Moreau 1401:), 'Louison' ( 1399:Fanchon Moreau 1347: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1266: 1263: 1240: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1199: 1198: 1146: 1144:André Messager 1141: 1115:BLP violations 1077: 1074: 1055: 1054: 1051: 1037: 1031: 1014: 1009: 981: 978: 959: 953: 934: 933: 924:and add it to 917: 896: 885: 882: 866: 863: 825: 822: 792: 787: 767: 760: 743: 742:Bournemouth SO 740: 723: 722: 701: 700: 659:Charles Groves 655: 651: 631: 629:Pineapple Poll 626: 610: 604: 595: 582: 580: 577: 553: 548: 524: 521: 518: 517: 514: 513: 510: 509: 508: 507: 494: 485: 469: 468: 465: 462: 461: 460: 459: 445: 436: 427: 415: 414: 411: 408: 407: 406: 405: 392: 383: 374: 361: 349: 348: 345: 339: 336: 335: 334: 333: 320: 310:External links 307: 294: 280: 279: 278: 269: 263:Citing sources 256: 244: 243: 240: 237: 236: 235: 234: 229: 224: 216: 215: 212: 209: 208: 207: 206: 196: 184: 183: 180: 169: 168: 118:sign your name 91: 81: 78: 75: 74: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2829: 2816: 2813: 2811: 2808: 2805: 2801: 2800: 2792: 2788: 2784: 2783: 2778: 2771: 2770: 2765: 2761: 2757: 2756:Milkunderwood 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2745: 2741: 2740:Milkunderwood 2737: 2733: 2732:Hulda (opera) 2728: 2723: 2722:Hulda (opera) 2720: 2714: 2710: 2706: 2702: 2698: 2697: 2696: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2689: 2685: 2678: 2675: 2669: 2667: 2660: 2657: 2655: 2652:Please click 2646: 2643: 2642: 2641: 2638: 2632: 2630: 2629: 2619: 2615: 2614: 2608: 2604: 2600: 2596: 2592: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2585: 2581: 2577: 2573: 2569: 2562: 2561:Georges Bizet 2559: 2555: 2551: 2547: 2543: 2538: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2531: 2527: 2520: 2516: 2512: 2508: 2505: 2500: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2493: 2489: 2485: 2477: 2469: 2465: 2461: 2457: 2456: 2455: 2451: 2447: 2442: 2441:Brian Boulton 2438: 2437: 2436: 2432: 2428: 2423: 2422: 2421: 2420: 2416: 2412: 2405: 2402: 2400: 2399: 2395: 2391: 2385: 2384: 2380: 2376: 2372: 2364: 2360: 2356: 2352: 2347: 2346: 2345: 2344: 2340: 2336: 2331: 2330:WP:REPEATLINK 2323: 2321: 2320: 2316: 2312: 2308: 2305:. Please add 2304: 2300: 2296: 2295: 2294:Birgit Nordin 2290: 2283: 2282:Birgit Nordin 2280: 2276: 2272: 2268: 2267:Mzilikazi1939 2264: 2260: 2256: 2255: 2250: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2243: 2239: 2234: 2233: 2229: 2225: 2224:Mzilikazi1939 2216: 2214: 2213: 2209: 2205: 2201: 2197: 2193: 2188: 2186: 2183:In the Gänzl 2181: 2177: 2170: 2163: 2159: 2150: 2146: 2139: 2135: 2133: 2129: 2124: 2122: 2116: 2114: 2109: 2107: 2103: 2097: 2096: 2092: 2087: 2086: 2074: 2071: 2070: 2065: 2058: 2054: 2050: 2046: 2042: 2038: 2037: 2036: 2035: 2034: 2033: 2024: 2020: 2016: 2015: 2014: 2013: 2012: 2011: 2006: 2002: 1998: 1993: 1990: 1986: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1979: 1978: 1977: 1974: 1973: 1968: 1961: 1957: 1953: 1949: 1945: 1941: 1931: 1927: 1923: 1919: 1918: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1914: 1905: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1900: 1892: 1891: 1890: 1889: 1888: 1887: 1879: 1875: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1867: 1866: 1858: 1854: 1850: 1846: 1842: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1835: 1834: 1833: 1825: 1823: 1816: 1815: 1814: 1813: 1812: 1811: 1806: 1803: 1802: 1797: 1790: 1789: 1784: 1783: 1778: 1777: 1776: 1773: 1772: 1767: 1760: 1756: 1752: 1748: 1745: 1744:Elvis Presley 1740: 1737: 1733: 1730: 1729: 1728: 1727: 1723: 1719: 1715: 1712: 1709: 1707: 1703: 1699: 1695: 1690: 1686: 1683: 1678: 1676: 1671: 1666: 1664: 1660: 1655: 1650: 1647: 1646: 1641: 1634: 1630: 1626: 1625: 1621: 1616: 1612: 1611: 1607: 1606: 1601: 1600: 1595: 1594: 1589: 1586: 1582: 1581: 1577: 1573: 1569: 1565: 1561: 1560: 1556: 1552: 1548: 1547:Zulma Bouffar 1544: 1543:Vanni Marcoux 1540: 1537: 1533: 1532: 1528: 1524: 1523: 1519: 1515: 1514: 1510: 1509: 1508: 1507: 1503: 1499: 1495: 1491: 1485: 1481: 1479: 1475: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1459: 1455: 1451: 1446: 1433: 1430: 1429: 1424: 1417: 1412: 1408: 1404: 1400: 1396: 1395: 1394: 1391: 1390: 1386: 1385: 1380: 1376: 1372: 1368: 1367: 1366: 1362: 1358: 1353: 1352: 1351: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1343: 1340: 1339: 1335: 1334: 1329: 1324: 1323: 1322: 1319: 1318: 1313: 1306: 1302: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1292: 1291: 1287: 1286: 1281: 1276: 1272: 1264: 1262: 1261: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1248: 1238: 1234: 1230: 1226: 1220: 1216: 1215: 1214: 1213: 1209: 1205: 1197: 1193: 1189: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1178: 1174: 1169: 1165: 1162: 1161: 1157: 1153: 1145: 1142: 1140: 1139: 1135: 1131: 1126: 1124: 1120: 1116: 1112: 1107: 1105: 1104:autoconfirmed 1100: 1098: 1094: 1082: 1075: 1073: 1072: 1069: 1068: 1063: 1052: 1049: 1048: 1043: 1042: 1041: 1035: 1032: 1030: 1029: 1025: 1021: 1013: 1010: 1008: 1007: 1004: 1003: 998: 991: 987: 979: 977: 976: 972: 968: 964: 958: 954: 952: 951: 948: 943: 931: 927: 921: 915: 914: 913: 907: 906: 905:Did you know? 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