1141:"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Knowledge (XXG). Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at
202:(Hildebrandt-Snodgrass-Parsons and Parsons-Hall-Lawson))and run the Tomcat-Sunset.org website, which has a detailed "living" history section that will be published in a year or so as well. I'll continue to work up a detailed history (still sorting interviews and notes from Tomcat Sunset and Panel Symposium that had six hours of dialogue featuring 18 notable individuals who participated in key Tomcat events). I'll be more than happy to help evolve the Wiki article IAW Wiki guidelines while helping improve the published legacy of the Tomcat. Cheers, HJ
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verifiable source. Your knowledge will be useful in spotting errors, and recognizing good sources. I know that not all material on the F-14 page is properly sourced, but the policy was not enforced for along time. The current editors/users here are now doing our best to clean that up, and unfourtunately the easiest way to do that is in not allowinag anymore uncited material to be added. We are doing our best to source the other material, but as you can see the Tomcat pages are very long.
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can format it for you. That way you'll have a pattern to copy, and it makes citing the same source again even easier. Also, if you aren't sure about something, just ask on the talk page of that article. You can even use the talk page to elaborate on something from the text that you know or have experienced, but aren't able to source properly. Most of us editors love anything to do with aviation - that's why we're here - and we love those little tidbits.
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sake of what wiki calls POV / NPOV. Once you reverted it back, I let well enough alone--I know how I feel about my writing and I wouldn't get into a revert battle with a Navy jock anyway. I mention this only because it appears the restored phrasing may have been typed with a wee bit of emotion (coupla typos). I don't like to step on the toes of fellow editors, but really don't want to irritate a fellow aviator. --Buckboard 14:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
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aircraft if you don't have same altitude, temperature, loadout, fuel, etc. Suppose it's an aviation task force issue to decide what to use and even if you can get a standard reference for aircraft from different eras or countries. Can only guess what it was that prompted the note. I think you have to stick to official sources on max speeds and other specs. My view is that they are like car brochures (your mileage may be different).
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option when I uploaded them and that shows on images. You seem to be very unaware of how Govt images are handled*. I have worked in this "business" for over twenty years and even your notice is way off the mark. I researched dozens of images and uploaded them for various articles on
Knowledge (XXG) over a year ago. I only selected Govt images so there would be no issue.
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boat for its "Ball call" hence emergence of Rhino. Shocker is the first time I've heard of a name preceding fleet introduction, but it arose after the
Prowler community was surveyed last year and objected to Growler. The Super Hornet folks liken their aircraft to being big and gray and powerful like a Rhino so it isn't because they think its ugly at all as you observe.
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mentioning the altitue in an argument over max speed! Of course, he may be a
Foxtrot backseater, which means he isn't a pilot. I'm not sure he ever stated that he was a pilot, so that may be my mistake. Thanks again, and I hope this isn't too minor an issue for you. Good to see you are still around here! -
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I have a better idea. How about you provide sufficient sourcing information, like you have to the other image, so that the image can be kept? You could provide this information when uploading so there isn't any problem for "jerks" like me to come along and harass you. Crazy, but it may just work. You
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Bill - Comparing max speeds and climbs isn't realistic in my book as LordT (who appears to be a Red Ripper) notes, operational perfromance is nowhere near the manufacturer or Navy Fact File specs. Does it mean they're wrong? Not at all, just different configurations, which is why it's hard to compare
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HJ--don't know if you prefer feedback here or on the original user's page, so I'll start here. (If I came off as cranky in my edits, I apologize--I work all night and sometimes I get the coffee jitters.) As you can tell, I was a zoomie and that's my specialty. I changed the wording there only for the
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Actually, I said "somewhat speculative", not "highly speculative"; there is a great difference. But my primary reason for reverting your material was that you did not cite your sources. Knowledge (XXG) does not allow original research, which means that no first-hand information can be given without a
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All true. The
Marines went nuts over calling their RF-4 the Rhino (even had an annual ice sculpture made for Tailhook in their infamous suite at Tailhook with the horn sprouting liquid refreshment). The Navy had to come up with a two syllable name that didn't include Hornet to avoid confusion at the
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Thanks for your help. That's kinda what I thought. I think the user got mixed up, and assumed
Shocker was the official name. As to the Tomcat being the Turkey, I believe its distant relative, the TBF Avenger, was also called the Turkey for similar reasons. And I seem to recall reading that Rhino was
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The only weakness I see in policy is tendancy to use published sources that repeat errors. If there are knowledge gaps or errors not addressed by a published source, Knowledge (XXG) cannot claim to be truly current as editor would have to wait for a published source to address same, which may or may
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Information is there and it is a DoD image; the boilerplate notice you use isn't even on the mark. If you are indeed a Marine, you can easily check policy with your friendly PAO. DoD images that you continue to delete are in the public domain so there is no "copyright" status. I don't know what you
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Perhaps you should go to the DVIC site which is official DoD repository. Top magazines use it and since all service imagery hosted there is in public domain, there is no copyright licensing issue nor is anything other than noting that is a DoD or service image. You seem very unfamiliar with US Govt
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Don't know why you'd refer to yourself as a "jerk" as I did not say that or infer it. I can't respond to a criteria interpreted by someone who isn't even up to speed on copyright law concerning images. I don't call that being a jerk, just uninformed. My position is I selected appropriate licensing
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As far as learning to use
Knowledge (XXG) goes, you'll find that most of the editors are willing to help, especially if they know it's not just some vandal screwing around. If you aren't sure exactly how to cite your sources, just place all the info in the text with your material, and someone else
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Fair enough...there is quite a bit of new info out there with Tony Holmes doing a lot of detailed writing for his Osprey series as well as lots of articles being published on the Tomcat due to its Sunset recently occuring. I led the writing team for two books on the the Tomcat published this year
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That image says USN Photo on the photo. What is exactly "sufficient sourcing information" when it is a DoD image coming from one of the services and in public domain hosted on DVIC? The source is USN; do you not get that? It therefore is in the public domain. What more do you want? You have even
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Almost forgot why I came over here, so dazzled was I by myself. The information regarding NSAWC you left on my page was helpful and I appreciate it. I want to tackle the maze of units and programs at Nellis but its a daunting task, and anything that provides a model is helpful. Thanx.--Buckboard
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HJ response --- No offense taken and I did review Wiki policy, which is entirely reasonable. I'll add sources I find reliable. As a published author and editor, I do original research all the time otherwise errors tend to repeat themselves or subtle (or even glaring omissions) end up manifesting
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DVIC is specifically designed to support general public requests for photography and video products. The cost for these services depends on the nature of each request. Military personnel not associated with public affairs may request imaging support for briefings and general display work. DVIC
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Thanks. I just wanted to get another professional's opinion. My take is this guy is young to think he still knows everything! Also, my bs-detector went off, and I just wanted to see if it was malfunctioning. Apparently it is, though it did seem strange to me a pilot would quote a speed without
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status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually
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I am sorry if my reversions offended you in any way. I am truly grateful for your many years of service to our country. Many users, including myself, do not use the email feature on
Knowledge (XXG), preferring to do all our communicating through Knowledge (XXG). For me, this is primarily a
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Yes, it is an intersting dilema. Fortunately, if you see an accurate source online from a reputable site, those can be cited too. And I don't think there's anything wrong with using your knowledge to "screen" sources either. Also, you can site yourself, as long as it's been published
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Sorry I don't know what happened. Thanks for correcting the vandalism that came out of my IP adress. I don't know who did it but thanks for correcting it. I'm really sorry about the trouble this caused.
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themselves. The Tomcat article skips all over the place and has/had some of those weaknesses. Getting sources is not difficult, just learning how to use the Wiki tools or I would have already done it.
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You apparently didn't look at the image and comments. It is a DoD image and therefore in the public domain. The comments above are therefore misdirected as you are asuming there is a copyright owner.
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Unlike the UK, which maintains Crown
Copright and requires a "license" to use, USG "releases" its images to "Public Domain" which you have yet to acknowledge or include in your comments.
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Officially, it's the
Growler, but the community is calling it the Shocker. Likewise, the E/F community call themselvers "Rhino" drivers even though the official name is Super Hornet.
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are much appreciated; the article has been in need of an expert, especially in its recent usage. I hope you stick around and add to other articles as well. You may be interested in
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in the article. Unfortunately you didn't upload it on the wikipedia
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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following
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As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the
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Hello there, excuse me for bothering you, but I recently wrote an article on the Italian Knowledge (XXG) about the GE-F110 Engine and I would really like to use
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receives images only after being submitted and archived by the Navy. For the most recent images released by the Navy go to the NAVY.MIL Photo Gallery located at
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Yeah, I'd much prefer to be adding to articles, but most of my time is spent reverting and reporting vandals. Only USMC article I've contributed to has been
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It's an often vandalised article I've had on my watchlist for sometime now. Sometimes they're hard to keep up with. Some great shots on your user page BTW.
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that the Growler is now called the "Shocker". Do you have any information on this being the official name? I have a response on the talk page. Thanks. -
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sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
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977:). It's obviously credited to you! I would LOVE to get the whole set.. I just checked the tomcat sunset forum...and registered there... --
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has posted in sections above the last comment too. I have a reason for asking, but I'd like to see what you think first. THanks. -
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Oh, that's easy to solve. If you want a place like the sandbox but that's more permanent, just create a subpage under the link
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Good job on deleting a DoD image in public domain and noted as such. Perhaps you can replace it on the page it was supporting?
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deleted photos I took on active duty that were both released by DoD (in public domain) and uploaded by me and noted as such.
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should check all your other uploaded images. If you need/want help finding them, lemme know. Thanks for your understanding.
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1978? Jeez, you're almost a geezer like me. Note, I said "almost." Have a good one! --Buckboard 07:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
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sometimes used for the F-4, in its case because it was so ugly. I don't think the Super Hornet quite has that problem. -
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section. You'll find them very helpful in dealing editing the aircraft pages, and each section has a talk page also. -
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for a better explanation of what is allowed on Knowledge (XXG), and why. I look forward to working with you here. -
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No worries....chasing and fixing the electronic graffiti left behind by vandals seems to be a never-ending task.
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on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Werner_Voss
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Thanks...that is what I have been searching and been unable to find...
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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the
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P.s. I'm drooling over your 2000 hours of flight in an F-14 :-D
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Yeah I understand perfectly....I used your picture (
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