3186:(day two), which is the first explicit statement of relativity of motion among inertial systems. As a reference seems quite accurate to me. As to the question on whether the name, Newton itself was clear of his debt against Galileo (and Huygens; see for example Stillman Drake, Galilei: Pioneer scientist, Univ of Toronto 1990, ch 15 - I read the italian translation); and Einstein in his "Relativity - popular exposition" speaks of "Galilei - Newton mechanics". So I do not think there can be in any way a Galileo - Newton opposition on this matter.
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3023:; b) in describing my edit I erroneously used the term "equivalence" instead of "invariance". Now, I would like to make sure that your undoing is related to point b) and to my use of the wrong term "equivalence"; in this case I could reply the page edit, using the correct term in comments. Should your message be related to point a) instead, could you please be more specific on your issue. Thank you
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back on sources) has, I think, helped me to consolidate my improved mental/emotional state. I appreciate that these kinds of exchanges can be time-consuming, and fully understand if you decide to discontinue your responses. However, if you have a specific point or question you want to raise I will be happy to respond to it.
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are the two possibilities where we shall be looking for a positive square root for both dτ and ds. This will happen for dτ if the velocity v is less than c (time-like displacement) and for ds if v is greater than c (space-like displacement). In standard
Special Relativity only the first is permitted
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Dear JFB80: Thank you for expression of concern in your 16 September 2013 response to my reply to your comments. I am feeling a little better today (Tuesday) and will endeavour to give at least a partial response to your several points. In fact it may help me to focus on this topic, though I have to
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I hope you didn't mind me quoting your comment on the
Minkowski talk page. I am so glad you make your latest comment because anything I say now, however obvious, is immediately rejected. I am finding this behaviour quite upsetting. Previously I said the same as you do now only to have it dismissed
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Thanks for your good wishes. I've been feeling much better for about nine days now – maybe the anti-depressant has kicked in. I appreciate the politeness with which you have conducted our exchanges, and the searching nature of your contributions. The process of responding (and occasionally checking
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Yes I know of the statement by
Galileo you mention. There he talks of the behaviour of insects and fishes below deck. I thought though that somewhere earlier he had made a more dynamic statement saying that a cannon ball dropped from the top of the mast would fall to the foot (which must have been
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Hello Vbrm, I have never seen the term
Galilean invariance or equivalence used in the literature and think it is just a Knowledge invention. In any case it needs a correct reference to the original source which does not seem to be there. The observation was apparently made before the appearance of
3147:
Ok I agree the term is generally used. But there is still my other point that no-one has bothered to find out exactly where it occurred with
Galileo. And may I mention a more important point that it was first accurately described by Newton who is normally only credited with absolute space but who
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Newton's version of the principle of relativity is his
Corollary V to his Laws of Motion. It includes the remark "A clear proof of which we have from the experiment of a ship; where all motions happen after the same manner, whether the ship is at rest, or is carried uniformly forwards in a right
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known to generations of sailors). As to Newton's knowledge of
Galileo you only have to actually read Principia (few people do). Newton does something that Galileo did not and states the principle of relativity as it applies to uniform motion in mechanical systems (contrary to usual belief).
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Dear Dr
Esterson: Thank you for your note. I hope you will soon be well enough to resume discussion. I see you have considerable knowledge about this subject which I do not pretend to have although I feel I may have a somewhat new point of view. Regards JFB
2401:. The first applies to time-like displacements and the second to space-like displacements. In relativity only the first has physical significance because the velocity must be less than that of light. Then we deduce, as you did, that the first is c dτ
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2) Nobody is claiming that
Galileo himself wrote somewhere the definition of these term, but just that a phenomenon exists and that there is an agreement to refer to it with a term containing a reference to Galileo; same relation we have among
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0 (time-like) the condition for velocity to be less than that of light? (Einstein's 2nd postulate). Positive (+---), negative (-+++) If you don't think this suggests a sign convention then whatever would?
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with a bunch of many other authors having historical variants of Lorentz transformations via Weierstrass coordinates, or via Cayley absolute, or via Cayley-Hermite transformation, or via Quaternions etc.
3280:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
2934:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
2846:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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2535:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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I agree with the other editors at the Minkowski space talk page that the sign convention has no physical implication. It can't possibly have any physical implication because the two equations
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40:. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Knowledge. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place
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3078:). Have you given a look at them ? If a page exists in Knowledge shouldn't be possible to simply refer to it in another page, without the need to justify its existence ?
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I'm beginning to suspect that a software problem is involved. JFB80 overwrote the page twice, yes, but since 5 November, four other editors have made the same mistake. --
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are real unless the speed of the "moving" reference frame is greater than the speed of light, which is not physically realistic. In the +++- metric, proper time
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or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Knowledge you might want to consider being "
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More generally we can do the same with finite displacements Δx, Δy, Δz, Δt or with coordinates x, y, z, t which are displacements from (0, 0, 0, 0).
3074:. They are quite detailed and have corresponding pages in some 40 languages. They seem well documented to me with their proper references (mainly
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to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on
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I moved your comment from my user page to my talk page. If you wish to reply to me, you can do so here (I am watching your talk page).
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is imaginary for physically realistic scenarios. It seems clumsy to me to use imaginary numbers when they are not necessary.
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be careful not to put myself under pressure, which tends to produce a reaction. So my reply may be in separate contributions.
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as 'off-topic'. Here is my comment (in reply to Chetvorno who said a choice of sign convention has no physical implication.
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I think it makes no sense to use imaginary quantities with norms. All we have to do is to say there are two norms, namely
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3) A Google search for these terms gives back many results, I'm listing here some of them which may be more meaningful:
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are exactly the same mathematically. I just think that the +++- sign convention is clumsy notation: it makes
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again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on
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for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the
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Talk:History of Lorentz transformations#History of hyperbolic model, Lorentz transformation
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with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the
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i didn't know about this. But I think it is not important. Thanks for the message. JFB
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The article continues to say a choice of sign convention has no physical implication.
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Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Knowledge, as you did at
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1387:{\displaystyle ds^{2}=-c^{2}d\tau ^{2}=dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2}-c^{2}dt^{2},}
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and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. -
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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3015:
Hello JFB80, this is about your undoing of my 1072860212 revision to
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1934:{\displaystyle c^{2}d\tau ^{2}=c^{2}dt^{2}-(dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2})}
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1622:{\displaystyle c^{2}d\tau ^{2}=c^{2}dt^{2}-(dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2})}
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823:{\displaystyle c^{2}d\tau ^{2}=c^{2}dt^{2}-(dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2})}
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1739:{\displaystyle -c^{2}d\tau ^{2}=dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2}-c^{2}dt^{2}}
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1082:{\displaystyle c^{2}d\tau ^{2}=dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2}-c^{2}dt^{2}}
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Thanks for your note. I'm glad these exchanges have helped you.
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1236:{\displaystyle (d\tau /dt)^{2}=1/\gamma ^{2}=-(1-v^{2}/c^{2}),}
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Actually, the metric for the +++- sign convention is written
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Homersham Cox (mathematician)#Work on non-Euclidean geometry
2394:{\displaystyle {\sqrt {(}}dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2}-c^{2}dt^{2})}
2296:{\displaystyle {\sqrt {(}}c^{2}dt^{2}-dx^{2}-dy^{2}-dz^{2})}
2048:{\displaystyle c^{2}ds^{2}=dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2}-c^{2}dt^{2}}
968:{\displaystyle (d\tau /dt)^{2}=1/\gamma ^{2}=1-v^{2}/c^{2},}
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when we are considering the motion of material particles.
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gave the first clear statement of mechanical relativity.
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makes more sense than the other convention. Dividing by
633:'''Electromagnetic Theory''',vol.II, para.271, eqns 54,55
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I was just reading the discussion on the talk page of
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by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just
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Galileo's book but I don't know myself exactly when.
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466:Discussion on the Mileva Maric Talk page
1482:JFB80: Isn't c²dt² - (dx²+dy²+dz²): -->
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1122:{\displaystyle c^{2}dt^{2}}
863:{\displaystyle c^{2}dt^{2}}
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2184:{\displaystyle s=ic\tau }
1771:{\displaystyle s=ic\tau }
570:Hi JFB80, FYI please see
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3096:. Do we agree on this ?
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2967:to your user talk page.
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2092:{\displaystyle s=c\tau }
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1800:{\displaystyle s=c\tau }
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1410:{\displaystyle \gamma .}
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3107:Scientific article
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133:Your first article
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152:Getting Help
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3302:voting page
3115:Britannica
2994:this revert
2956:voting page
2868:voting page
2733:, and seek
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2557:voting page
1129:results in
597:Hello, I'm
573:. Cheers -
551:. Thanks.
535:Hello, I'm
373:Peer review
369:Maintenance
139:edit a page
68:WikiProject
3286:topic bans
3133:Thank you
3090:Pythagoras
2992:Regarding
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2715:disruptive
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650:BracketBot
648:. Thanks,
599:BracketBot
526:April 2014
435:Talk pages
431:User pages
418:Categories
270:Notability
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2193:Jrheller1
2099:and both
1809:Jrheller1
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1245:Jrheller1
604:your edit
400:Vandalism
311:Etiquette
257:Vandalism
50:talk page
3216:line." (
2719:reverted
2700:May 2020
496:Esterson
476:Esterson
334:Signpost
307:Civility
137:How to:
129:Tutorial
48:on your
3309:NoACEMM
3017:Inertia
2963:NoACEMM
2875:NoACEMM
2642:NoACEMM
392:General
64:adopted
32:Welcome
17:Welcome
2988:Revert
612:syntax
3222:JFB80
3203:JFB80
3150:JFB80
3041:JFB80
2770:Mario
2767:Super
2417:JFB80
2403:JFB80
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444:Tools
426:Stubs
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