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in
Norwich, and publishers may not have viewed the likely sales figures with enthusiasm. Nevertheless, the pamphlet can still be an accurate source, and it's not the sole source; and the article is well-written. Yes, the Eastern Daily Press (which is the leading provincial newspaper for this part of the UK, and well-respected) has called the author of the pamphlet 'quirky', but this requires interpretation: Norwich people are proud of being quirky. The EDP doesn't report on every bit of self-published nonsense, so the fact he got an EDP quote lends weight to the pamphlet's value. I would prefer to see a WP article on anti-urination measures more broadly, in which case this could have been merged - but there is currently no such article. The remaining question is whether the subject is notable: Norwich was, at the relevant time, the second most important city in the UK, so although it's now a provincial backwater, it has historic notability as a venue for anti-urination devices. And urinating over buildings is certainly big enough to be notable. So I reckon, keep, and hope that someone extends it to other destinations.
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Disclaimer, I'm a
Norwich chap, so I'm standing too close to this particular wall. Yes, the article relies heavily on one self-published 32-page pamphlet. That reflects the specificity of the subject: realistically, not many authors will have felt moved to write an article on how not to pee on a wall
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there. My only worry is whether it would have been better to call it 'anti-urination measures' or something, so as to include those measures that discourage urination in the wrong place by encouraging urination somewhere more useful (like
Amsterdam's planters). By the way, this is AfD is absolutely
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The vast majority of the page is based on a single published 32 page booklet with the authors own unsubstantiated opinions of what some otherwise unidentified and unrelated features in one particular town might have been for. Other links on the page appear to be very general information and do not
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Thank you. I'm not arguing that anti-urination devices do not exist, simply that this is a subject that needs to be properly sourced and referenced and simply assuming every buttress, stabilising reinforcement or other non-corner is an anti-urination device because that fits your pet theory isn't
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exemplary of WP at its best: by cooperative and well-mannered discussion, we've ended up with a narrow article broadened to something much better, which will also have a better range of more solid references.
710:, but move to a more general title and expand to cover the concept generally (which, as other !voters have said, does exist). The article as it stands is far too reliant on a self-published source.
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354:'Silly'? Thank heavens we generally demand slightly more evidence to support an article than what looks to be one self-published booklet, otherwise the value of Knowledge would be nil.
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may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications
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is the central source of the article (and apparently the only source talking about AUDs) and does not count for GNG, as it is (let me find the right TLA) a
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I came here with the expectation—like
Johnbod—that this would be a "rather silly nom". However. I see on the talk page that
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to question its sourcing. If this is just one person's theory, it should not be all stated as fact in
Knowledge's voice. —
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810:(or anyone else who thinks this article should not be merged), what are the two GNG sources for "Anti-urination devices
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Meh. Evidentially, at least we know that one of these topics actually existed, rather than being a pet theory.
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just a pet theory of one author, I'd suggest a more thorough analysis of what makes
Loveday a reliable source.
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440:. Great topic, especially if not restricted to Norwich, even if that used to be the centre of the universe. —
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680:: Not sure why the name of the article is so specific, but anyway it should be able to be expanded. --
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page, so it's no longer a red link. This is great. I'm in favour of the
Norwich material being
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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627:.Since we currently host an article which states something exists when it may well be
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I don't think this needs deletion, but let's give the nominator a break. The pamphlet
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It's nice to see the other article but I see no need to merge as yet.
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directly support the conclusions drawn in the article or leaflet.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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A.U.D.s: An
Intimate Study of a Minor Architectural Feature
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Article is fine, and well-referenced. Rather a silly nom.
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are notable concepts, but at time of writing those are
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814:" (as opposed to "Anti-urination devices" generally)?
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would be relevant, and would strengthen the article.
52:. Evidently considered an important topic by many...
479:but consider broadening the scope beyond Norwich.
262:list of Architecture-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
840:). No further edits should be made to this page.
280:Note: This discussion has been included in the
260:Note: This discussion has been included in the
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282:list of England-related deletion discussions
110:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
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609:are largely not acceptable as sources
535:ce - ty SN and Kusma for the research
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629:a figment of someone's imagination
607:have never heard of it. While SPS
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653:worthy of inclusion on Knowledge.
599:(Loveday Publishing), but either
119:Anti-urination devices in Norwich
71:Anti-urination devices in Norwich
519:Not sure why this was nominated.
95:Introduction to deletion process
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
370:I like the article, but it is
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591:raised the issue of sourcing
533:) 13:37, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
456:Amsterdam's pee-in-a-planter
85:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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803:17:49, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
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701:21:52, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
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830:Please do not modify it.
617:he's a little bit cheeky
32:Please do not modify it.
558:. Norwich: E R Loveday.
625:may not actually exist
611:, it's true that they
481:Anti-urination devices
678:Anti-urination device
554:Loveday, Ray (2016).
372:completely reasonable
328:re Hamburg and London
326:Possible source here
83:Articles for deletion
605:the British library
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90:How to contribute
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735:I see that
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489:WP:REDLINKS
196:free images
812:in Norwich
493:TompaDompa
58:Sandstein
834:talk page
754:Elemimele
460:Elemimele
394:Elemimele
286:Shellwood
266:Shellwood
37:talk page
836:or in a
816:Levivich
697:contribs
601:Worldcat
415:exist. —
407:Examples
249:contribs
237:unsigned
163:View log
104:glossary
39:or in a
808:Johnbod
784:Comment
771:Johnbod
767:Comment
733:Comment
713:firefly
683:littleb
585:Comment
332:Johnbod
306:Johnbod
202:WP refs
190:scholar
136:protect
131:history
81:New to
749:merged
538:— Ched
527:— Ched
523:WP:GNG
434:Venice
413:London
174:Google
140:delete
799:erial
644:erial
621:might
570:Kusma
511:Merge
442:Kusma
417:Kusma
376:Kusma
217:JSTOR
178:books
157:views
149:watch
145:links
16:<
775:talk
758:talk
708:Keep
693:talk
685:2009
674:Move
672:and
670:Keep
659:talk
603:nor
574:talk
542:talk
531:talk
507:Keep
497:talk
477:Keep
464:talk
446:talk
430:Lviv
421:talk
410:from
398:talk
389:Keep
380:talk
360:talk
336:talk
310:talk
302:Keep
290:talk
270:talk
245:talk
210:FENS
184:news
153:logs
127:talk
123:edit
50:keep
691:) (
689:her
676:to
568:. —
566:SPS
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224:TWL
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.