513:
permission, but it hides my reply to your comment and wrongly makes it seem like I did not reply to the request for sources. My comment is in the right part of this discussion, below the comment to which it is responding, since
Knowledge uses threaded discussion. Furthermore, it is logical to keep all my arguments together under the umbrella of my main bullet point instead of scattering part of my argument down to the bottom of the page as if I were multiple different editors. No one would have thought you were ignoring any comments; not only do comments have timestamps in the signature, but Knowledge editors understand that in a threaded discussion, replies get added to earlier comments over time that may change the situation. Plus, I even put an extra note at the bottom that "I added examples in an addendum to my keep comment above" as a courtesy to make the situation clear. This was a complete non-issue, and posting this boldfaced "note to editors" attacking me needlessly injects incivility into this discussion. —
1118:- Agree with the above comment. Also, all the delete votes should obviously be counted towards merge/redirect rather than keep. To be honest there seems to be a pretty clear consensus that the article should not be kept - none of the votes to keep the article were made along policy lines. There seems to be a clear consensus on the fact that this character lacks significant coverage by reliable secondary sources (so far only one article has been produced that could potentially count).
486:
makes it seem like i was ignoring his comment when i was talking about how no one was able to show any secondary sources later on this page. My comments about that came first, and he/she has simply added this new comment to the wrong part of this discussion - which for bizarre reasons lowellian would not allow me to move. I have responded to these sources at the bottom of this article so as to preserve the natural flow of discussion and to retain a logical chronology of events.
826:. "Goat" does not appear to be a mainstream news outlet with editorial standards and just seems like a random website. The comicsvine wiki appears to be something anyone to contribute to. Thecomicbook database thing is not a published article in anyway shape or form, and is just a random bit of information on the internet. Marvunapp is not a reliable source. George Takei
924:. Even if we were to imagine that georgetakei's website was the new york times (which it isnt), I fail to see how one meaningless footnote is enough to justify the existence of an entire wikipedia article. Are we going to create a new wikipedia article every time a new article appears on George Takei's website? lol.
830:
write that article, some random person called dennis livesey wrote that article on his website. Georgetakei's website is not a credible news outlet with editorial standards. I wish you added these sources to the bottom of the article, adding your comment up there makes it look like we were ignoring
512:
I was responding to your comment about lack of sources, so the appropriate place for the natural flow of the discussion is to place the comment here, directly below the comment to which it is replying. Trying to move my comment away is poor form because not only is it editing my comment without my
485:
the above comment from
Lowellian was only recently added, after much discussion had happened later on this article. Lowellian would not allow me to move his comment to a more appropriate place in the discussion. Lowellian adding that comment to this part of the discussion is poor form because it
571:
is so pivotal to Iron Man's origin story that the character appears in adaptations of Iron Man across many different forms of media, not just comic books: Ho Yinsen saved Tony Stark's life, helped him build the original Iron Man suit, and then sacrificed himself to save Tony Stark again.
903:
Dennis
Livesey (an unknown writer) wrote an very short article on George Takei's website about how a marvel fan made some tweets about an Iron Man character. I don't think this is notable enough to justify an article for Ho Yinsen. It's highly dubious whether this counts under
355:. This isn't even a marginal case. Ho Yinsen is one of the most important characters in the Iron Man mythos, and absolutely crucial to Iron Man's origin, hence why Ho Yinsen has appeared not just in the comic books, but in so many other adaptations of the character, from
617:: Ignoring the "otherstuffexists" argument for the moment, literally every page you linked to contains a reference from the real world outside of a fictional comic book universe, something that this article doesn't have. Those examples don't help prove your case.
387:
There isn't a single source cited in that article that isn't a marvel comic book. If this character is so notable, there should some be some coverage of the character from outside fictional marvel comics. Otherwise that article (A) lacks notability and (B) is just
673:
I think he's referring to an effort to remove comic character articles from
Knowledge. There are currently 72 AfDs for comic characters, 65 of which were started by the same nominator here. That editor has expressed a dislike of the proposed target and would
775:: Can people who want to keep this page respond to the fact that there isn't a single source used that isn't a marvel comic book? Like, this character doesn't even have an article written about him on IGN or anything like that.
845:
I concur with the above source assessments. Maaaaybe we could be a bit more charitable with the post on Takei's blog, but even then we'd only have one solid source, which still falls short of notability guidelines.
888:
That's not George Takei's blog. It's his culture/society website with articles by many writers, and the author of the article under discussion is not some "random fanboy", but a hired writer for the website.
205:
596:. Uncle Ben also has a Knowledge article. There is thus plenty of precedent for having articles for supporting characters whose primary role is in the origin stories of the most notable superheroes. —
414:
Also, it's worth noting that if the character is so important to iron man, then that can just be mentioned on the iron man wikipedia articles. That doesnt mean that Ho Yinsen needs his own article.
543:
I totally disagree with everything you've just said, but I won't elaborate on this because it's irrelevant to the discussion and i don't want to derail the discussion, and thus I agree to move on.
259:
970:
to the List of Marvel characters. The character's repeated adaptation to other media shows his importance to the fiction and a minimal amount of information should be retained.
158:
1101:- Considering the only proposed target has the character's name and a "Main" template pointing at his article, I think all the "redirect" votes should be counted as "merges".
199:
1005:
105:
90:
1185:, did you see that your proposed target only has the character's name and a "main" template? Would you oppose merging some information to the target?
870:
If George Takei actually wrote that piece on his blog, I would agree. A random fanboy writing something on George Takei's blog? Nope, not notable.
449:
912:, and even at best, that content from the article on Takei's website is totally insignificant failing the "significant coverage" test of
1161:
1048:
706:
331:
309:
289:
53:
165:
675:
85:
78:
17:
678:. The list's original (and current) purpose is to provide information on characters that are only notable within the fiction.
659:
I don't know what you mean by saying the glossary "won't survive the next decade or two here anyway." Can you explain that?
131:
126:
1123:
929:
875:
836:
780:
664:
622:
548:
491:
419:
397:
317:
220:
135:
1169:
1144:
831:
your comment when we were saying no secondary sources have been presented because people read articles top to bottom.
187:
99:
95:
1068:
905:
805:
There are plenty of sources outside Marvel comic books. I added examples in an addendum to my keep comment above. —
118:
1213:
40:
1190:
1106:
1087:
975:
683:
638:. I don't see much point in redirecting to a glossary that won't survive the next decade or two here anyway. --
457:
334:, as that list has an entry for Yinsen but no actual information beyond a {{main}} pointing at this article.
1136:
1119:
925:
871:
832:
776:
660:
618:
544:
487:
415:
393:
313:
181:
1180:
1165:
1140:
1209:
1031:
1012:
797:
764:
36:
1139:, you have voted "Redirect" earlier. If you have changed your mind, please strike your earlier vote -
177:
913:
360:
356:
1194:
1173:
1148:
1127:
1110:
1091:
1059:
1035:
1015:
996:
979:
962:
933:
898:
879:
857:
840:
814:
800:
784:
767:
743:
718:
687:
668:
650:
626:
605:
552:
522:
495:
469:
423:
401:
375:
345:
321:
298:
273:
251:
60:
1186:
1102:
1083:
971:
958:
894:
810:
679:
601:
518:
465:
371:
213:
909:
389:
293:
227:
1055:
793:
I can. This is an allplot GNG fail and should always be a redirect to the most relevant list.
644:
74:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
1208:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
445:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
1164:. It is not notable enough to have an article on its own. Some of the info can be copied. -
1027:
1009:
794:
761:
753:
739:
1079:
No real consensus to outright Delete; relist to get clarity on Keep vs. Merge vs. ReDirect
954:
890:
806:
757:
729:
597:
514:
461:
367:
193:
122:
992:
850:
714:
338:
263:
241:
237:
1051:
640:
585:
581:
453:
441:
57:
152:
735:
437:
456:, who has no relationship with Ho Yinsen (has never played the character), has
236:
Yet another non-notable fictional character. Zero real-world notability. Fails
589:
363:
593:
577:
568:
114:
66:
726:- Let this page stay. He played a part in the creation of Iron Man. Plus,
988:
710:
752:. Note to closing admin or whatever: disregard any votes that may fail
573:
1204:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
436:
There is plenty of coverage of Ho Yinsen in secondary sources:
1071:
to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
676:
prefer to see it reduced to a bulleted list of blue links
260:
list of
Fictional elements-related deletion discussions
148:
144:
140:
212:
1082:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
56:. No.objection to sourced material being merged.
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1216:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1004:Note: This discussion has been included in the
987:- No sources available to establish notability.
734:is right about the claim that user mentioned. --
588:. Those characters all have Knowledge articles.
258:Note: This discussion has been included in the
953:. Usual-variety fancruft. Fails GNG/NFICTION.
226:
8:
106:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
592:becomes Spider-Man because of the death of
1006:list of China-related deletion discussions
1003:
257:
922:delete, redirect, or small partial merge
452:from a non-comic-books website. Actor
641:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
7:
312:. Don't keep, it has no notability.
1162:List of Marvel Comics characters: Y
1049:List of Marvel Comics characters: Y
707:List of Marvel Comics characters: Y
332:List of Marvel Comics characters: Y
310:List of Marvel Comics characters: Y
290:List of Marvel Comics characters: Y
54:List of Marvel Comics characters: Y
24:
91:Introduction to deletion process
450:Here is an article on Ho Yinsen
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
1:
1195:17:40, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
1174:17:27, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
1149:18:45, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
1128:17:36, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
1111:16:58, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
1092:15:47, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
1060:20:35, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
1036:14:34, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
1016:01:41, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
61:19:03, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
997:02:32, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
980:17:53, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
963:12:34, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
934:09:55, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
899:07:05, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
880:06:17, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
858:03:45, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
841:03:35, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
815:02:56, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
801:01:24, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
785:01:03, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
768:01:01, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
744:00:48, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
719:12:50, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
688:17:48, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
669:00:18, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
651:09:17, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
627:02:45, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
606:02:35, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
553:06:17, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
523:04:43, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
496:03:35, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
470:02:56, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
424:01:43, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
402:01:30, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
376:01:19, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
346:22:21, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
322:21:31, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
299:21:11, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
274:21:07, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
252:21:07, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
81:(AfD)? Read these primers!
1233:
1206:Please do not modify it.
460:posted on his website. —
458:an essay about Ho Yinsen
32:Please do not modify it.
576:becomes Batman because
292:if not notable enough.
79:Articles for deletion
1137:Apples&Manzanas
1120:Apples&Manzanas
926:Apples&Manzanas
906:WP:Reliable sources
872:Apples&Manzanas
833:Apples&Manzanas
777:Apples&Manzanas
661:Apples&Manzanas
619:Apples&Manzanas
545:Apples&Manzanas
488:Apples&Manzanas
416:Apples&Manzanas
394:Apples&Manzanas
314:Apples&Manzanas
1077:Relisting comment:
1181:LeQuattroStagioni
1094:
1018:
756:, especially the
276:
96:Guide to deletion
86:How to contribute
1224:
1184:
1081:
1074:
1072:
824:reliable sources
733:
647:
483:Note to editors:
296:
270:
267:
248:
245:
231:
230:
216:
168:
156:
138:
76:
34:
1232:
1231:
1227:
1226:
1225:
1223:
1222:
1221:
1220:
1214:deletion review
1178:
1095:
1067:
1065:
908:, it's totally
849:
727:
649:
645:
337:
294:
268:
265:
246:
243:
173:
164:
129:
113:
110:
73:
70:
48:The result was
41:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
1230:
1228:
1219:
1218:
1200:
1199:
1198:
1197:
1187:Argento Surfer
1154:
1153:
1152:
1151:
1131:
1130:
1113:
1103:Argento Surfer
1084:Britishfinance
1080:
1075:
1064:
1063:
1062:
1038:
1020:
1019:
1000:
999:
982:
972:Argento Surfer
965:
947:
946:
945:
944:
943:
942:
941:
940:
939:
938:
937:
936:
883:
882:
863:
862:
861:
860:
847:
822:These are not
817:
803:
788:
787:
770:
746:
721:
695:
694:
693:
692:
691:
690:
680:Argento Surfer
654:
653:
639:
632:
631:
630:
629:
609:
608:
567:It is because
564:
563:
562:
561:
560:
559:
558:
557:
556:
555:
532:
531:
530:
529:
528:
527:
526:
525:
503:
502:
501:
500:
499:
498:
475:
474:
473:
472:
431:
430:
429:
428:
427:
426:
407:
406:
405:
404:
379:
378:
349:
348:
335:
324:
302:
301:
278:
277:
234:
233:
170:
109:
108:
103:
93:
88:
71:
69:
64:
46:
45:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1229:
1217:
1215:
1211:
1207:
1202:
1201:
1196:
1192:
1188:
1182:
1177:
1176:
1175:
1171:
1167:
1163:
1159:
1156:
1155:
1150:
1146:
1142:
1138:
1135:
1134:
1133:
1132:
1129:
1125:
1121:
1117:
1114:
1112:
1108:
1104:
1100:
1097:
1096:
1093:
1089:
1085:
1078:
1073:
1070:
1061:
1057:
1053:
1050:
1046:
1042:
1039:
1037:
1033:
1029:
1025:
1022:
1021:
1017:
1014:
1011:
1007:
1002:
1001:
998:
994:
990:
986:
983:
981:
977:
973:
969:
966:
964:
960:
956:
952:
949:
948:
935:
931:
927:
923:
919:
916:. Surely the
915:
914:WP:Notability
911:
907:
902:
901:
900:
896:
892:
887:
886:
885:
884:
881:
877:
873:
869:
868:
867:
866:
865:
864:
859:
856:
855:
854:
844:
843:
842:
838:
834:
829:
825:
821:
818:
816:
812:
808:
804:
802:
799:
796:
792:
791:
790:
789:
786:
782:
778:
774:
771:
769:
766:
763:
759:
755:
751:
747:
745:
741:
737:
731:
725:
722:
720:
716:
712:
708:
704:
700:
697:
696:
689:
685:
681:
677:
672:
671:
670:
666:
662:
658:
657:
656:
655:
652:
648:
642:
637:
634:
633:
628:
624:
620:
616:
613:
612:
611:
610:
607:
603:
599:
595:
591:
587:
583:
579:
575:
570:
566:
565:
554:
550:
546:
542:
541:
540:
539:
538:
537:
536:
535:
534:
533:
524:
520:
516:
511:
510:
509:
508:
507:
506:
505:
504:
497:
493:
489:
484:
481:
480:
479:
478:
477:
476:
471:
467:
463:
459:
455:
451:
447:
443:
439:
435:
434:
433:
432:
425:
421:
417:
413:
412:
411:
410:
409:
408:
403:
399:
395:
391:
386:
383:
382:
381:
380:
377:
373:
369:
365:
362:
358:
354:
351:
350:
347:
344:
343:
342:
333:
329:
325:
323:
319:
315:
311:
307:
304:
303:
300:
297:
291:
287:
283:
280:
279:
275:
272:
271:
261:
256:
255:
254:
253:
250:
249:
239:
229:
225:
222:
219:
215:
211:
207:
204:
201:
198:
195:
192:
189:
186:
183:
179:
176:
175:Find sources:
171:
167:
163:
160:
154:
150:
146:
142:
137:
133:
128:
124:
120:
116:
112:
111:
107:
104:
101:
97:
94:
92:
89:
87:
84:
83:
82:
80:
75:
68:
65:
63:
62:
59:
55:
51:
44:
42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
1205:
1203:
1157:
1115:
1098:
1076:
1066:
1044:
1040:
1023:
984:
967:
950:
921:
918:only options
917:
852:
851:
827:
823:
819:
772:
749:
748:Restore the
723:
702:
698:
635:
614:
586:Martha Wayne
582:Thomas Wayne
482:
454:George Takei
384:
359:to multiple
352:
340:
339:
327:
305:
285:
281:
264:
242:
235:
223:
217:
209:
202:
196:
190:
184:
174:
161:
72:
49:
47:
31:
28:
1028:Hyperbolick
910:WP:Fancruft
438:ComicBookDB
390:WP:Fancruft
200:free images
646:reply here
590:Spider-Man
361:theatrical
326:Selective
295:Jhenderson
1210:talk page
955:Kacper IV
891:Lowellian
807:Lowellian
754:WP:ATAIDD
730:Lowellian
598:Lowellian
594:Uncle Ben
578:Joe Chill
569:Ho Yinsen
515:Lowellian
462:Lowellian
446:MarvUnApp
442:ComicVine
385:Response:
368:Lowellian
357:TV series
115:Ho Yinsen
67:Ho Yinsen
37:talk page
1212:or in a
1069:Relisted
1045:redirect
985:Redirect
853:Rosguill
848:signed,
750:redirect
341:Rosguill
336:signed,
306:Redirect
286:redirect
159:View log
100:glossary
50:redirect
39:or in a
1099:Comment
1052:Wm335td
920:are to
828:did not
773:Comment
758:WP:PPOV
206:WP refs
194:scholar
132:protect
127:history
77:New to
58:Spartaz
951:Delete
820:Reply:
760:ones.
736:Rtkat3
636:Delete
580:kills
574:Batman
444:, and
238:WP:GNG
178:Google
136:delete
1158:Merge
1116:Merge
1024:Merge
968:Merge
895:reply
811:reply
703:merge
615:Reply
602:reply
519:reply
466:reply
372:reply
364:films
328:merge
221:JSTOR
182:books
166:Stats
153:views
145:watch
141:links
16:<
1191:talk
1170:talk
1145:talk
1124:talk
1107:talk
1088:talk
1056:talk
1041:Keep
1032:talk
993:talk
976:talk
959:talk
930:talk
876:talk
837:talk
781:talk
740:talk
724:Keep
715:talk
699:Keep
684:talk
665:talk
623:talk
584:and
549:talk
492:talk
420:talk
398:talk
353:Keep
318:talk
282:Keep
269:5969
266:Onel
247:5969
244:Onel
214:FENS
188:news
149:logs
123:talk
119:edit
1166:Jay
1160:to
1141:Jay
1047:to
1043:or
989:TTN
711:BOZ
705:to
701:or
366:. —
330:to
308:to
288:to
284:or
228:TWL
157:– (
52:to
1193:)
1172:)
1147:)
1126:)
1109:)
1090:)
1058:)
1034:)
1026:.
1010:ミラ
1008:.
995:)
978:)
961:)
932:)
897:)
878:)
839:)
813:)
795:ミラ
783:)
762:ミラ
742:)
717:)
709:.
686:)
667:)
625:)
604:)
551:)
521:)
494:)
468:)
448:.
440:,
422:)
400:)
392:.
374:)
320:)
262:.
240:.
208:)
151:|
147:|
143:|
139:|
134:|
130:|
125:|
121:|
1189:(
1183::
1179:@
1168:(
1143:(
1122:(
1105:(
1086:(
1054:(
1030:(
1013:P
991:(
974:(
957:(
928:(
893:(
889:—
874:(
835:(
809:(
798:P
779:(
765:P
738:(
732::
728:@
713:(
682:(
663:(
643:|
621:(
600:(
547:(
517:(
490:(
464:(
418:(
396:(
370:(
316:(
232:)
224:·
218:·
210:·
203:·
197:·
191:·
185:·
180:(
172:(
169:)
162:·
155:)
117:(
102:)
98:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.