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settlement of debts. Typically, slave retailing was carried out on a master's orders or at least with his permission as embodied in a signed pass (cf. Art. XIX: « permission expresse de leurs maßtres par un billet ou par des marques connues »), but the Code foresaw slave selling even « en cas que leurs maßtres n'aient donné aucun ordre et ne les aient point préposés » (Art. XXIX). Many advertisements in
Affiches Américaines boasted that a slave offered for sale was a « marchand » or « marchande », indicating that marketing skills were considered a valuable attribute among the enslaved. Cf. Affiches Américaines, 20 May 1767, p. 160: « Une Négresse, nommée Louison, trÚs-bonne marchande⊠Cette Négresse a vendu des marchandises en pacotille, pendant toute la guerre & depuis la paix, tant dans la Plaine du Cap, que dans celle de l'Artibonite ».
1018:(sales-women) working for her. The court's witnesses stressed the number of these women, suggesting that it was quite unusual for a female free Black vendor to have so many of them selling in the streets. .... As Latrobe noticed, it was not the fashion for Creole ladies to go out in the streets to do their shopping. Thus, many of the marchandes provided a door-to-door service as well as selling in the market. He wrote: 'Women, chiefly black women, are met carrying baskets upon their heads and calling at the doors of houses. These baskets contain assortments of dry goods, sometimes, to appearance, to a considerable amount.' However, this was probably more applicable to the selling habits of Mandeville's marchandes.
1207:: As it stands, the article is incorrectly drafted with major grammatical errors which would startle French speakers. One easy way of correcting the problem would be to change the title of the article to the plural "Marchandes" (or perhaps even "Les marchandes") and use the plural form in the article itself. I suggest this as the group people concerned are invariably referred to in the plural. I would be happy to make the move and improve the article along these lines but perhaps it is better to wait until it has been decided whether the article should be kept or not. See also
681:; it makes perfect sense for an article that is little more than a dictionary definition. But I think it has moved beyond a dictionary definition and now more accurately describes this particular cultural phenomenon. Given the initial lack of clarity, it may be worth procedurally closing this AfD in favour of a second AfD that discusses the merits (and notability, or not) of the subject as it is now defined.
1254:
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However, the sheer demographic numbers of enslaved
Africans in Louisiana are convincing in this context. They reveal that Louisiana, unlike Cuba and Haiti, received hardly any enslaved Yoruba or Dahomeyans (Hall, 1992). New Orleans's African population was Kongo dominated with a strong affinity with
974:
I do think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say most of the sources are primary; I would be concerned if we were pulling the term from 18th and 19th century sources directly, but all of the sources I looked at are secondary historical coverage. I don't think it's "original research" to say that this
728:
I couldn't find anything to confirm this was exclusively the case. More accurately, they were typically black Creole women, and a significant portion of black Creole women were slaves or former slaves, not all. But I don't think redirecting a title about a concept not specifically about slavery to an
1066:, a merchant woman, who would take care of his business affairs while he was away. He had, as the law prescribed, "put his slave in a shop" in his stead while he traveled to France. In this arrangement, Carmélite traded goods from a room in the Burgundy street house during his absence...
746:
If this can be improved and rescued, of course this would be the best outcome. Unfortunately sometimes interesting topics like these have not yet been researched. That said, in general, race and slavery topics in US are quite well researched, so if we are not finding much about this it doesn't bode
654:
by Creole people. This specificity makes it difficult to differentiate between "merchant", "female merchant" and "this-particular-type-of-female-merchant-specific-to-this-location-at-this-time" (which is what the article is about). The specificity of this phenomenon also means it is unlikely to be
702:
I do appreciate your efforts. Were you able to find any source that discusses this in depth? The article still misses citations for definition of the concept, and the reliance on 1860 work for bulk of references (and content, what little we have) is not ideal. Still, it would be a shame to remove
883:
discussed as a legal designation for merchants in
Lousiana, presumably before the the word became used in the sense this article describes. Note: no discussion of marchandes in the "Beyond Bondage" book discussed in the cited thesis, in case anyone else was tempted. I'll note that I found other
1132:
Marketing was a long-standing slave activity. It is mentioned in decrees of 1664 and 1677 (Louis-Ălie Moreau de Saint-MĂ©ry, Loix et constitutions, op. cit., vol. I, p. 120-21, 306-307), and the Code Noir, Art. XIX and XXIX, elaborated on these, seeking to regulate slave retailing, including
888:
may be better positioned to evaluate the utility of the sources I found. In sum, I'm convinced the subject of the article exists and is notable (to be at least name-checked in a dozen historical academic sources), but I am a bit concerned about
677:- okay, I have completed some work to refocus the article and add some sources. Without someone who can sift through some Creole-French sources (if they exist), it probably won't get much bigger. I can certainly understand this nomination by
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with "First check for sources; then, only if not found, nominate for deletion at AfD.". Since Rusf10 didn't follow up on this, I did, but I failed to find any SIGCOV of this topic. It's not a hoax, but it does not appear to be
975:
was a labor phenomenon that existed in
Louisiana, since that's what the sources say! My only real concern is depth of coverage, and as mentioned elsewhere I do think the additional sources uncovered are probably enough.
1146:
That's a good summation, and is ultimately where I got to also. As above, I don't think redirecting a title about a concept not specifically about slavery to an article specifically about slavery is a good outcome.
203:
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the spirits of the dead. Nago people arrived only during the
Spanish colonial rule in a significant number, many of whom were females specifically "imported" to run the city's markets as vendeuses or
879:- This is an interesting one. Best source I found here. A passing but contextually-appropriate mention here. Term is used again here in the mid-1840s. Term used here referring circa 1800. Here is
1062:
But the story was more complex than a simple situation of long-term sexual liaison between two people. Lacaze was a peddler by trade, and he had officially purchased Carmélite as a
1228:
As explained above, the article references a phenomenon specific to
Louisiana Creole culture and the difference in French linguistics is explained in the first reference (Albert Valdman's
724:
I'm still working through other sources. There isn't a lot (in
English) that discusses the concept in detail, for obvious reasons. While it is true that slaves and former slaves became
1236:
as an example of non-gendered Creole French that defies normal French language conventions. So no, I don't believe a move would be appropriate without taking that into consideration.
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might be a feminine noun (and can be seen used in French-language
Louisianan legislation), the cultural phenomenon dealt with by this article would more typically be referred to as
164:
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905:
as previously suggested, but really this topic is getting at a women's labor history topic; if an appropriate existing article to merge to exists, I don't know the title.
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All things considered, this is a great topic for a grad student looking for a dissertation that can be turned into papers/books in those fields. I still think it's sadly
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article specifically about slavery is a good outcome. I would rather see it kept and improved (and I believe it can be), or sent to draft space.
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I think as it stands the article passes, but like others I do not think putting a redirect to an article about slavery is appropriate.
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history and a quick search of Google books reveals dozens of potential sources. You could probably make a good argument that the word
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1274:, I believe I have fixed the grammar as explained on the article talk page. I hope you will be able to improve the article further.
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for it to be a stand-alone
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646:- I'm currently doing some work to address some of the issues in the article. It should be pointed out that while
1009:âBig Businesswomanâ Eulalie Mandeville and the World of Female Free Black Entrepreneurs in Antebellum New Orleans
1351:
897:; unclear if the coverage in the discussed sources should be considered "in-depth"). I would probably favor a
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this in its entirety now that we can see a glimmer of hope. What do you think about a merger and redirect to
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found in French
Knowledge (XXG) (being French-language in vernacular but culturally Louisianan and Creole).
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is a feminine noun and that you can probably find it here on Knowledge (XXG) by using the masculine form of
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search engines I tried to be useless here, I didn't find anything at all relevant until I looked at JSTOR.
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1112:. This title was only applied to a handful of female merchants in Louisiana from the early 1760s onward.
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on Women in Red, since I know there's folks there who may help with uncovering and evaluating sources.
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Marie Catherine Baudreau, Widow Gervais, was never once, in life or death, granted the designation of
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A Black Patriot and a White Priest: André Cailloux and Claude Paschal Maistre in Civil War New Orleans
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due to the improvements to the article and the sources brought to the discussion by Stalwart111.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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and the lack of depth on the term itself in the sources (such that the subject may not meet
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A few additional brief mentions of the role of marchandes in this woman's business.
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Paper Thin: Freedom and Re-enslavement in the Diaspora of the Haitian Revolution
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1312:: the sources found during this AfD bring it up over notability requirements. -
1103:"A Baser Commerce": Retailing, Class, and Gender in French Colonial New Orleans
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Race and Education in New Orleans: Creating the Segregated City, 1764-1960
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Exiles at Home: The Struggle to Become American in Creole New Orleans
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Social Life in Old New Orleans: Being Recollections of My Girlhood
457:
The Manhattaner in New Orleans: Or, Phases of "Crescent City" Life
400:, Thank you for pointing out the 'e', but I still don't see any
234:
This unreferenced article was tagged for PROD few months ago by
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
1295:: I think that the sources found so far establish notability.
1127:
What did Slaves Wear? Textile Regimes in the French Caribbean
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
1089:(woman trader) in the town of Port de Paix, Saint-Domingue.
1033:
YorĂčbĂĄ Influences on Haitian Vodou and New Orleans Voodoo
52:. Momentum seems to have gathered behind the keep view.
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Sexual Labor in the Space Between Slavery and Freedom
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Adelaide had left his household by 1801 to become a
783:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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578:Scenes in the South and Other Miscellaneous Pieces
251:, and what we have at present is an unreferenced
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1375:). No further edits should be made to this page.
328:Note: This discussion has been included in the
305:Note: This discussion has been included in the
282:Note: This discussion has been included in the
621:Black Women in New South Literature and Culture
474:The Faubourg Marigny of New Orleans: A History
330:list of Louisiana-related deletion discussions
592:Shirley Elizabeth Thompson; Thompson (2009).
284:list of Business-related deletion discussions
8:
112:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
858:this article into a new section within the
307:list of France-related deletion discussions
327:
304:
281:
263:, please share, otherwise this has to go.
618:Sherita L. Johnson (11 September 2009).
379:took on a slightly different meaning in
1346:, as sources are enough for notability.
1014:By this time, Mandeville also had many
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854:although I think it might be better to
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598:. Harvard University Press. pp. 196â.
440:New Orleans; the Place and the People,
960:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
927:Out of order edit to add useful ref.
750:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
710:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
679:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
407:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
335:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
312:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
289:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
266:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
1253:Just noting that the pdf you link
443:. Macmillan and Company. pp. 264â.
24:
497:Stephen J. Ochs (21 March 2006).
471:Scott S. Ellis (3 October 2018).
367:. The context of the article is
355:- I just want to point out that
97:Introduction to deletion process
903:History of slavery in Louisiana
860:History of slavery in Louisiana
705:History of slavery in Louisiana
259:either. If anyone can find any
1230:History, Society and Variation
1:
575:Col. James R. Creecy (1860).
437:Grace Elizabeth King (1895).
1210:which provides statistics.--
242:". It was then deprodded by
523:Walter Stern (4 May 2018).
454:Abraham Oakey Hall (1851).
87:(AfD)? Read these primers!
1392:
1356:11:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
1339:08:19, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
1322:15:33, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
1305:11:04, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
1284:11:04, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
1267:14:24, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
1249:10:47, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
1220:08:46, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
1200:08:04, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
1181:05:30, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
1160:05:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
985:14:24, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
970:05:30, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
937:20:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
915:05:06, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
872:13:41, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
847:02:41, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
818:17:30, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
795:05:25, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
67:17:44, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
1255:seems like a great source
1232:). He specifically gives
760:05:07, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
742:12:25, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
720:11:43, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
694:07:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
668:05:25, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
417:08:39, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
393:07:57, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
345:03:28, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
322:03:28, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
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276:03:28, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
1365:Please do not modify it.
555:. D. Appleton. pp. 25â.
460:. J. C. Morgan. pp. 70â.
32:Please do not modify it.
477:. LSU Press. pp. 149â.
624:. Routledge. pp. 84â.
529:. LSU Press. pp. 18â.
503:. LSU Press. pp. 35â.
549:Eliza Ripley (1912).
85:Articles for deletion
1166:Note: I left a note
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373:New Orleans
198:free images
1331:KonsTomasz
1041:marchandes
1016:marchandes
995:References
965:reply here
951:WP:PRIMARY
947:WP:TOOSOON
755:reply here
715:reply here
581:. pp. 39â.
425:References
412:reply here
340:reply here
317:reply here
294:reply here
271:reply here
253:WP:DICTDEF
1369:talk page
1259:Suriname0
1192:Lajmmoore
1173:Suriname0
1110:marchande
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648:marchande
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383:.
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369:Louisiana
357:Marchande
261:WP:SIGCOV
121:Marchande
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37:talk page
1371:or in a
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775:Relisted
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244:User:DGG
165:View log
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