850:. A publisher which publishes various notable webcomics, but which has not in itself received anything in the way of significant coverage in reliable sources, cannot be held to be notable under our criteria. Johnny Depp and Bruce Willis might catch the same number 9 bus to work every morning, but it doesn't mean that the bus is worthy of an article. If the company receives significant coverage in future then there's nothing wrong with recreating this, especially as that might actually provide more than a couple of sentences of material on the company itself.
479:
While Guest9999 did propose for deletion on the basis of notability as well, the complaint I was attending to in my quick search was lack of verification. The major factual statements in the article have to do with whether or not the publisher did in fact publish the notable comics listed. Even if
294:
does not appear to be very good at searching for references and finds his own lack of skill an excuse to delete articles. Plan 9 is/was an influential small independent publisher that boosted the comics industry at a pivotal time in webcomics development. Note for instance that Pete Abrams, author
530:
for certain information but the information in the articles still comes almost entirely from the company's founder. I am not comfortable with an article about a corporation being based almost entirely on information from someone with such an interest in it. The publications in question are not
507:
The definition of independent media has to do with the publisher, not whether or not the piece "involved" the person being covered. Or would you argue that someone's being interviewed in Time magazine would not serve as a reliable source demonstrating notability and indicating information
737:
The only source I could find was through the company's own website (and I have added this information to the article). I am reluctant to have an article about a company which seems to be notable deleted, but as yet I cannot find proof of that notability (I'm a great fan of the
599:
that repudiates the use of a store site to verify the manufacturer of items for sale, when indicated by that store. Especially a store so well-established for its database as amazon.com. I agree that other sources would be better, but disagree that such liks
539:
has a reputation for accuracy backed up by full time fact checkers and a legal department, something I doubt either of the two interviewing sites have. I do understand your point of view and reasoning - I just disagree with it in this instance.
803:(those in the first part of the list) look decent sources by the standards of popular culture, and it's unreasonable to require academic sources in such a topic (hell, it's hard to find academic sources on a well-established genre like
626:#15 - if you need to provide a source for product information then the ISBN is sufficient because then people can pick the store of their choice. Putting the link in a footnotes doesn't magically make it OK. Fell free to raise this at
237:
organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish
160:
508:
verification because the magazine "involved" the subject? The publisher is most certainly the greatest expert on why he started the company, which is one of the statements in the article that needs a citation...
384:- none of those sources except those which involved a member of staff of the company (not independent) discuss the publisher in any king of detail - there is still a lack of significant coverage by independent
713:
so that the information can be included in the article (should it be kept) and whether a high-quality, accurate encyclopaedia article on a topic for which such basic facts cannot be confirmed is viable.
480:
references are about the books/comics, if they confirm that Plan 9 was the publisher of those comics, they verify facts in the article. The references I pointed to do that. Searching for '<title: -->
299:
is moving too quickly with calls for deletion right now in this topic area. All such AfDs should be considered most carefully. Tags for lack of citation should be applied before a call for deletion.
489:
books/collections published by Plan 9. This would be a good thing to do for all related articles, and help someone unfamiliar with the topic appreciate Plan 9 Publishing's influence in the field.
446:
In summary, two of the sources could be used to add a couple of snippets to the article, but they regretably do not constitute the "significant coverage" which the
Notability Criteria mention --
204:
742:
series). I have contacted the company, to see if they are still operational (so that the details in the article can be updated if appropriate), and to see if they know of any independent,
630:
or find somewhere where there is a consensus that Amazon is somehow superior to all the other stores with identical information, but until then I can't see why it should be used. (
121:
232:
427:
Witty World
International: not about the company, but about the Ozy & Millie strip. The line you quote is all they say about the company - it's not "significant coverage"!
568:) and should be removed from an article not added, as you seem to suggest with "and of course every single amazon.com page for one of the paperbacks published by Plan 9". (
154:
873:
and their media franchises as a whole, the individual books - i.e. the portion of the franchise relating to this publisher - almost certainly aren't.
879:
is definitely a notable webcomic, that doesn't mean that the company which manufactures figurines based on its characters is necessarily notable.
914:
430:
Slashdot: not about the company but about the BOFH - the line you quote is all they say about the company, again it's not "significant coverage"
207:
the only independent coverage I can find is from wikis, Knowledge (XXG) mirrors and other sources which could not be considered to be reliable.
208:
94:
89:
675:
Whether or not it has stopped operation, the article should remain. Even historically (if it is no longer operating) the company is notable.
295:
of Sluggy
Freelance, which Plan 9 initially published, is credited as being the first webcomics artist able to make a living off his comic.
98:
931:
481:' and 'published by Plan 9' was all that was necessary to find those sources, and can also be done for the other comics. I've updated the
764:
464:
81:
17:
175:
927:
782:'s rationale. I always thought Plan 9 was on the cusp of notability, I'm now doubting it's on the right side of the line. --
142:
380:
Without dealing with the nature of the sources themselves - included, among others, are a student newspaper, a webcomic and
910:
350:
and of course every single amazon.com page for one of the paperbacks published by Plan 9; and the incomplete but helpful
949:
201:
If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Knowledge (XXG) should not have an article on it.
968:
36:
331:
907:
827:, another web comic that has attracted attention in "real life", is also recorded as published in print by Plan 9.
136:
196:
847:
967:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
953:
936:
888:
858:
839:
791:
770:
723:
684:
670:
639:
613:
577:
549:
517:
498:
470:
397:
363:
322:
308:
283:
257:
63:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
814:
132:
945:
875:
279:
758:
458:
418:
85:
182:
855:
339:
347:
627:
923:
884:
719:
666:
545:
437:
any significant coverage, but the
Lincoln Heights Literary Society would probably not constitute a
393:
318:
253:
168:
680:
609:
513:
494:
359:
304:
275:
56:
212:
414:
225:
received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject
148:
917:? It looks like it could be useful based on the excerpt, but I don't have access to the rest.
835:
787:
779:
748:
635:
573:
448:
77:
69:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
623:
267:
851:
809:
482:
343:
216:
804:
870:
743:
710:
698:
658:
596:
588:
565:
561:
527:
438:
417:: I found this as well, and will add the little extra information I had not found in the
385:
245:
241:
220:
192:
191:
I can find no evidence that this organisation has received any coverage from independent
411:
MIT: This is not about the company, but about the book, so not relevant to this article.
327:
919:
880:
823:
715:
662:
541:
389:
314:
296:
291:
249:
706:
702:
348:
David Allen
Interview in the Fall 2004 Journal of the Lincoln Heights Literary Society
676:
605:
560:
Worth pointing out that links to the product pages on Amazon (and any store) violate
509:
490:
355:
300:
49:
831:
783:
631:
569:
421:
article that I have used as a source on the article, should the article survive AfD
342:"the major book publisher of collections of those strips is Plan Nine Publishing";
697:
I completely agree that the publishers continued operation is not relevant to its
115:
705:. What is relevant is whether basic facts (such as whether it is active) can be
248:
and the official website of the company which hasn't been updated in 18 months.
335:
424:
Baen
Publishing: not about the company, but about the Sluggy Freelance strip
869:
It might also be worth noting that whilst the webcomics themselves may be
903:
593:"this guideline does not apply to inline citations or general references"
381:
351:
661:
which can confirm whether the company is still exists or is operating.
817:, and other sources record that Plan 9 published the print edition of
340:
Witty World
International Cartoon center Book review of Ozy and Millie
354:. There's a few. Took me longer to write them up than to find them.
944:
as lacking significant coverage from independent reliable sources.
961:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
739:
346:"Plan Nine Publishing did a great job of laying out this book";
240:". So far I cannot find even trivial coverage (from independent
229:
satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article
800:
111:
107:
103:
167:
433:
Lincoln
Heights: Some useful information that could
336:
Baen
Publishing piece by Pete Abrams and John Ringo
181:
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
971:). No further edits should be made to this page.
344:Slashdot - Bastard Operator from Hell II review
604:, should be stripped from articles, as a rule.
657:As a side note I have yet to find or see any
332:ComixTalk Interview with Plan 9's David Allen
8:
328:MIT The Tech book review of Sluggy Freelance
602:when used as references, not advertising
441:according to Knowledge (XXG)'s criteria.
266:- with heavy heart, for failure to meet
830:2nd option use: relist in 12 months. --
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
485:article so you can see the list of
902:- does anyone here have access to
24:
564:(and certainly don't count under
274:the 'Bastard Operator From Hell.
223:states that a topic should have "
595:. I see no particular point of
244:) - the article is dependent on
233:specific guideline for companies
852:Chris Cunningham (not at work)
219:. Beyond trivial mentions the
1:
197:Knowledge (XXG):Verifiability
954:17:20, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
937:21:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
889:14:35, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
859:11:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
840:10:52, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
792:16:15, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
771:13:17, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
724:19:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
685:19:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
671:19:10, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
640:23:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
614:18:11, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
578:14:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
550:02:15, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
518:19:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
499:03:29, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
471:13:31, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
398:19:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
364:18:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
323:17:08, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
309:17:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
284:14:50, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
258:02:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
221:general notability guideline
64:02:41, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
703:notability is not temporary
988:
908:Greensboro, North Carolina
846:The basic problem here is
913:archives--in particular,
406:Looking at those sources:
964:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
48:default to status quo.
419:Triad Business Journal
799:. Some of Netmouse's
217:user editable website
813:has a citation from
591:specifically states
209:A Google News search
746:of information. --
526:They may well be a
946:Sharksaredangerous
622:Not according to,
352:Books by ISBN page
44:The result was
911:News & Record
246:original research
78:Plan 9 Publishing
70:Plan 9 Publishing
979:
966:
935:
819:Sluggy Freelance
810:Sluggy Freelance
767:
761:
754:
751:
744:reliable sources
711:reliable sources
659:reliable sources
487:Sluggy Freelance
483:Sluggy Freelance
467:
461:
454:
451:
386:reliable sources
242:reliable sources
193:reliable sources
186:
185:
171:
119:
101:
59:
52:
34:
987:
986:
982:
981:
980:
978:
977:
976:
975:
969:deletion review
962:
918:
848:WP:NOTINHERITED
807:). I note that
805:science fiction
765:
759:
752:
749:
528:reliable source
465:
459:
452:
449:
439:reliable source
227:" in order to "
128:
92:
76:
73:
57:
50:
37:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
985:
983:
974:
973:
957:
956:
939:
896:
895:
894:
893:
892:
891:
862:
861:
844:
843:
842:
824:Kevin and Kell
794:
773:
731:
730:
729:
728:
727:
726:
690:
689:
688:
687:
654:
653:
652:
651:
650:
649:
648:
647:
646:
645:
644:
643:
617:
616:
582:
581:
557:
556:
555:
554:
553:
552:
521:
520:
504:
503:
502:
501:
474:
473:
443:
442:
431:
428:
425:
422:
412:
408:
407:
401:
400:
371:
370:
369:
368:
367:
366:
286:
189:
188:
125:
72:
67:
42:
41:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
984:
972:
970:
965:
959:
958:
955:
951:
947:
943:
940:
938:
933:
929:
925:
921:
916:
912:
909:
905:
901:
898:
897:
890:
886:
882:
878:
877:
872:
868:
867:
866:
865:
864:
863:
860:
857:
853:
849:
845:
841:
837:
833:
829:
828:
826:
825:
820:
816:
812:
811:
806:
802:
798:
795:
793:
789:
785:
781:
777:
774:
772:
768:
762:
756:
755:
745:
741:
736:
733:
732:
725:
721:
717:
712:
708:
704:
700:
696:
695:
694:
693:
692:
691:
686:
682:
678:
674:
673:
672:
668:
664:
660:
656:
655:
641:
637:
633:
629:
625:
621:
620:
619:
618:
615:
611:
607:
603:
598:
594:
590:
586:
585:
584:
583:
579:
575:
571:
567:
563:
559:
558:
551:
547:
543:
538:
534:
529:
525:
524:
523:
522:
519:
515:
511:
506:
505:
500:
496:
492:
488:
484:
478:
477:
476:
475:
472:
468:
462:
456:
455:
445:
444:
440:
436:
432:
429:
426:
423:
420:
416:
413:
410:
409:
405:
404:
403:
402:
399:
395:
391:
387:
383:
379:
378:
377:
376:
375:
374:
373:
372:
365:
361:
357:
353:
349:
345:
341:
337:
333:
329:
326:
325:
324:
320:
316:
313:Any sources?
312:
311:
310:
306:
302:
298:
293:
290:
287:
285:
281:
277:
276:Eddie.willers
273:
269:
265:
262:
261:
260:
259:
255:
251:
247:
243:
239:
235:also states "
234:
230:
226:
222:
218:
214:
210:
206:
205:Google search
202:
198:
194:
184:
180:
177:
174:
170:
166:
162:
159:
156:
153:
150:
147:
144:
141:
138:
134:
131:
130:Find sources:
126:
123:
117:
113:
109:
105:
100:
96:
91:
87:
83:
79:
75:
74:
71:
68:
66:
65:
62:
61:
60:
53:
47:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
963:
960:
941:
915:this article
906:, or to the
899:
876:Penny Arcade
874:
822:
818:
808:
796:
780:Phantomsteve
775:
747:
734:
601:
592:
536:
532:
486:
447:
434:
288:
271:
263:
236:
228:
224:
200:
190:
178:
172:
164:
157:
151:
145:
139:
129:
55:
54:
46:No consensus
45:
43:
31:
28:
776:Weak Delete
766:My Contribs
735:Weak Delete
466:My Contribs
238:notability.
155:free images
760:Contact Me
699:notability
587:Actually,
460:Contact Me
203:". From a
881:Guest9999
815:The Times
716:Guest9999
663:Guest9999
542:Guest9999
415:ComixTalk
390:Guest9999
315:Guest9999
297:Guest9999
292:Guest9999
250:Guest9999
211:turns up
928:Contribs
904:NewsBank
707:verified
677:Netmouse
606:Netmouse
510:Netmouse
491:Netmouse
382:Slashdot
356:Netmouse
301:Netmouse
122:View log
900:Comment
871:notable
832:Philcha
784:Kaszeta
778:as per
750:Phantom
632:Emperor
624:WP:ELNO
570:Emperor
450:Phantom
435:further
268:WP:CORP
231:". The
161:WP refs
149:scholar
95:protect
90:history
942:Delete
932:Review
264:Delete
215:and a
213:a blog
195:. Per
133:Google
99:delete
51:Jayron
753:Steve
628:WT:EL
597:WP:RS
589:WP:EL
566:WP:RS
562:WP:EL
453:Steve
270:...I
176:JSTOR
137:books
116:views
108:watch
104:links
16:<
950:talk
924:Talk
920:Dori
885:talk
856:talk
836:talk
801:refs
797:Keep
788:talk
740:BOFH
720:talk
681:talk
667:talk
636:talk
610:talk
574:talk
546:talk
537:Time
533:Time
514:talk
495:talk
394:talk
360:talk
319:talk
305:talk
289:Keep
280:talk
272:like
254:talk
169:FENS
143:news
112:logs
86:talk
82:edit
934:) ❦
922:❦ (
709:by
183:TWL
120:– (
952:)
930:❖
926:❖
887:)
854:-
838:)
821:.
790:)
769:)
763:,
722:)
701:-
683:)
669:)
638:)
612:)
576:)
548:)
535:,
516:)
497:)
469:)
463:,
396:)
388:.
362:)
338:;
334:;
330:;
321:)
307:)
282:)
256:)
163:)
114:|
110:|
106:|
102:|
97:|
93:|
88:|
84:|
58:32
948:(
883:(
834:(
786:(
757:(
718:(
679:(
665:(
642:)
634:(
608:(
600:'
580:)
572:(
544:(
512:(
493:(
457:(
392:(
358:(
317:(
303:(
278:(
252:(
199:"
187:)
179:·
173:·
165:·
158:·
152:·
146:·
140:·
135:(
127:(
124:)
118:)
80:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.