Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13) (3rd nomination) - Knowledge (XXG)

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470:. - We have just had two AFD discussions on this, closed as "no consensus" on 9 May and 6 June. If the closing admin had considered that a further discussion was useful he (or she) would have relisted it. The question is ultimately whether the massacre happened. We have sources cited; how reliable they are I am not qualified to say; and I suspect that no one but an expert in Balkan history is qualified to judge. The appropriate course is thus to keep the article but heavily tagged as "disputed". 52:. I procedurally renominated the article to see if consensus could be achieved if participation was limited to perspectives from outside the Balkans topic area. But so far, nobody has offered such a perspective, and multiple editors have expressed concerns about my approach. That's why I conclude that this AfD is unlikely to result in a consensus either, and therefore I am withdrawing it. This means that the "no consensus" outcome of the previous two AfDs is where we're at for now. 264:
The previous two AfDs reached no consensus about whether this article should be deleted as original research by synthesis. People strongly disagreed about whether there are reliable sources that establish that these massacres took place. My impression is that the personal association of many editors
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Thanks for the modification. I would also urge you to cancel out: " if they have made recent substantive edits to any page related to the Balkans", and only leave the following condition: " if they were ever sanctioned for editing about the Balkans". While neither #2 nor #3 is racist, #2 penalizes
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I hope that this allows other Wikipedians to come to a consensus about the the merits of this article. I know that this may make it more difficult to evaluate sources in languages from the Balkans, but I expect that a notable historical event, if it is notable, will be covered in English-language
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The idea that editors should be banned from this AfD discussion merely because they have any connection to a place in the Balkans or have made recent substantive edits to any page related to the Balkans seems improper to me, although I can't find a specific policy that prohibits that.
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Sandstein has now revised the sanctions on this page to a standard which is nondiscriminatory, and so I no longer object to the discretionary sanctions being imposed. That said, we still don't have any discussion here that takes a clear stand either for deletion or against deletion.
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Contributions in violation of this sanction may be removed by any uninvolved administrator (but not other users). Such contributions can be reported on this AfD's talk page. Editors who disagree with the restriction can appeal it at
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if they have made recent substantive edits to any page related to the Balkans, or if they were ever sanctioned for editing about the Balkans, or for other similar reasons as determined by me or another uninvolved administrator.
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Even if such a restriction were permissible, I would still support a speedy close to this AfD, because the nominator has not taken a position in favor of deletion, nor even explained the arguments for and against deletion.
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I know that this may make it more difficult to evaluate sources in languages from the Balkans, but I expect that a notable historical event, if it is notable, will be covered in English-language sources as
227: 388: 487:, I was the closing admin in both cases, and I consider a further discussion (this time without Balkans-associated users) useful; this is why I have indeed relisted the article at AfD. 193: 159: 154: 429: 163: 510:? Note that is very different from banning users based on actual behavior. Having looked over the past two AfDs, I sympathize with Sandstein, but I think this AfD should be 186: 146: 354: 446: 118: 133: 622: 570: 549: 529: 499: 479: 455: 438: 418: 405: 369: 345: 327: 64: 248: 215: 150: 209: 113: 106: 17: 205: 142: 70: 255: 127: 123: 392: 333:
Amended to strike mention of Balkans self-identification on user pages, per concerns about discrimination on my talk page.
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I don't like the idea of users being banned from discussions based on ethnic origin. Isn't that technically
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their username or user page indicates or previously indicated any connection to a place in the Balkans, or
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I'm therefore trying something new: I'm procedurally renominating the article, but with the following
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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For the purposes of this sanction, an editor is deemed to be associated with the Balkans if
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with one country or another from the Balkans influenced the views they expressed.
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The same restriction applies to editors who are not extended confirmed per
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Articles for deletion/Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13) (3rd nomination)
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Articles for deletion/Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13) (2nd nomination)
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all users including those who have constructively edited wikipedia.
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Knowledge (XXG):English Knowledge (XXG) non-discrimination policy
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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sources as well (and indeed some are cited in the article).
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Editors associated with the Balkans may not edit this page.
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Articles for deletion/Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13)
254: 603:have to be available online or written in English 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 642:). No further edits should be made to this page. 445:Note: This discussion has been included in the 428:Note: This discussion has been included in the 353:Note: This discussion has been included in the 430:list of Montenegro-related deletion discussions 315:This is a procedural nomination, I am neutral. 8: 355:list of History-related deletion discussions 134:Help, my article got nominated for deletion! 447:list of Events-related deletion discussions 444: 427: 352: 579:On a different note, Sandstein, you said, 274:WP:ARBEE#Standard discretionary sanctions 79: 598: 584: 514:because it sets a dangerous precedent. 280:They may also not participate in any 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 393:foundation:Non-discrimination policy 292:, as enforced by page protection.) 77: 24: 143:Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13) 119:Introduction to deletion process 71:Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13) 385:Knowledge (XXG):Discrimination 1: 109:(AfD)? Read these primers! 659: 395:doesn't apply to editors.) 632:Please do not modify it. 623:07:57, 8 June 2020 (UTC) 571:07:57, 8 June 2020 (UTC) 550:07:40, 8 June 2020 (UTC) 530:06:23, 8 June 2020 (UTC) 500:21:28, 7 June 2020 (UTC) 480:17:35, 7 June 2020 (UTC) 456:23:55, 6 June 2020 (UTC) 439:23:53, 6 June 2020 (UTC) 419:18:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC) 406:17:15, 6 June 2020 (UTC) 370:14:10, 6 June 2020 (UTC) 346:07:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC) 328:14:18, 6 June 2020 (UTC) 65:06:58, 9 June 2020 (UTC) 32:Please do not modify it. 387:is a dormant proposal, 76:AfDs for this article: 284:of this discussion. ( 107:Articles for deletion 548: 498: 458: 441: 372: 368: 344: 326: 272:restriction, per 124:Guide to deletion 114:How to contribute 63: 650: 618: 566: 547: 545: 538: 525: 497: 495: 488: 454: 437: 391:is a draft, and 367: 365: 358: 343: 341: 334: 325: 323: 316: 259: 258: 244: 196: 184: 166: 104: 62: 60: 53: 34: 658: 657: 653: 652: 651: 649: 648: 647: 646: 640:deletion review 621: 616: 569: 564: 541: 539: 528: 523: 512:speedily closed 491: 489: 450: 433: 361: 359: 337: 335: 319: 317: 282:deletion review 201: 192: 157: 141: 138: 101: 98: 96: 74: 56: 54: 48:The result was 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 656: 654: 645: 644: 626: 625: 613: 606: 596: 589: 581: 580: 577: 576: 575: 574: 573: 561: 520: 504: 503: 502: 468:Accept outcome 460: 459: 442: 424: 423: 422: 421: 413:Metropolitan90 400:Metropolitan90 374: 373: 349: 348: 262: 261: 198: 137: 136: 131: 121: 116: 99: 97: 95: 94: 89: 84: 78: 75: 73: 68: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 655: 643: 641: 637: 633: 628: 627: 624: 620: 619: 612: 611: 607: 604: 602: 597: 594: 593:WP:Notability 590: 587: 583: 582: 578: 572: 568: 567: 560: 559: 553: 552: 551: 546: 544: 536: 533: 532: 531: 527: 526: 519: 518: 513: 509: 505: 501: 496: 494: 486: 485:Peterkingiron 483: 482: 481: 477: 473: 472:Peterkingiron 469: 465: 462: 461: 457: 453: 452:North America 448: 443: 440: 436: 435:North America 431: 426: 425: 420: 417: 414: 409: 408: 407: 404: 401: 396: 394: 390: 386: 379: 376: 375: 371: 366: 364: 356: 351: 350: 347: 342: 340: 332: 331: 330: 329: 324: 322: 313: 309: 307: 301: 298: 293: 291: 287: 283: 279: 275: 271: 266: 257: 253: 250: 247: 243: 239: 235: 232: 229: 226: 223: 220: 217: 214: 211: 207: 204: 203:Find sources: 199: 195: 191: 188: 182: 178: 174: 170: 165: 161: 156: 152: 148: 144: 140: 139: 135: 132: 129: 125: 122: 120: 117: 115: 112: 111: 110: 108: 103: 93: 90: 88: 85: 83: 80: 72: 69: 67: 66: 61: 59: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 631: 629: 615: 608: 600: 563: 556: 542: 522: 515: 511: 492: 467: 464:Speedy close 463: 381: 378:Speedy close 377: 362: 338: 320: 314: 310: 302: 296: 294: 285: 277: 267: 263: 251: 245: 237: 230: 224: 218: 212: 202: 189: 100: 57: 49: 47: 31: 28: 599:Sources do 535:Vice regent 228:free images 543:Sandstein 493:Sandstein 363:Sandstein 339:Sandstein 321:Sandstein 58:Sandstein 636:talk page 50:Withdrawn 37:talk page 638:or in a 270:WP:AC/DS 187:View log 128:glossary 39:or in a 234:WP refs 222:scholar 160:protect 155:history 105:New to 508:racist 416:(talk) 403:(talk) 290:WP:ECP 206:Google 164:delete 595:says, 306:WP:AE 286:Edit: 249:JSTOR 210:books 194:Stats 181:views 173:watch 169:links 16:< 617:talk 591:But 586:well 565:talk 524:talk 476:talk 242:FENS 216:news 177:logs 151:talk 147:edit 601:not 256:TWL 185:– ( 610:VR 558:VR 517:VR 478:) 449:. 432:. 411:-- 398:-- 380:. 357:. 308:. 276:: 236:) 179:| 175:| 171:| 167:| 162:| 158:| 153:| 149:| 605:. 588:. 474:( 466:- 383:( 260:) 252:· 246:· 238:· 231:· 225:· 219:· 213:· 208:( 200:( 197:) 190:· 183:) 145:( 130:) 126:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
talk page
deletion review
Sandstein
06:58, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13)
Articles for deletion/Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13)
Articles for deletion/Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13) (2nd nomination)
Articles for deletion/Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13) (3rd nomination)

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Plav-Gusinje massacres (1912-13)
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