1361:
of it went right over my head. A timeline for some sections and for the whole history might help. It also wasn't until I was halfway through the article that I realised that the approach of sections for 'suprageneric', 'genus-level' and 'species-level' was being taken. Possibly a sentence somewhere preparing the reader for this might help (something like 'over the following centuries, changes occurred at all levels of the taxonomy, from family to genus to species' and then launch into explaining those changes).
1170:(great article btw) seems like an extremely similar topic. Wondering when you would expect a reader to go to one article versus the other? Little worried we are too hung up with the Wiki definitions of lists versus articles or perhaps the award processes...but in real world, this info would not be separated like this.
551:), some extinct stuff, and a bunch of introduced species. However, we have no idea about the mammals that were on Madagascar before lemurs arrived, since Madagascar has no terrestrial fossil record from 65 to 1 Ma, and the older ones are unrelated to the current fauna. What exactly would you like to see in the article?
1365:
I reorganized the lead a little to cover suprageneric, generic, and specific taxonomy in that order. It might be good to say "This article will first cover taxonomy above the genus level, then changes at the level of the genus, and finally species-level taxonomy", but that will probably get people up
1360:
Despite it being mostly a series of bullet points, I found the 'Genus-level classification' section easier to take in than the 'Suprageneric classification' and 'Species-level classification' sections (it was shorter as well, which helped). To be honest, I was only skim-reading much of those, as most
1320:
is a bit dubious. It fails in print, for a start, and even when read on a computer, you have to hover over it to see where the link is taking you. My rule of thumb is if I have to guess where the link is going, then it needs clarifying or removing. I was expecting the link to take me to an article on
1093:
Mittermeier et al. 2008, p. 1614. for sentence "In 2008, Russell
Mittermeier, Colin Groves, and others avoided addressing higher-level taxonomy by defining lemurs as monophyletic and containing five living families, including Daubentoniidae." Yet, the linked pdf does not have page numbers and I can't
228:
Thanks for noticing this! This one went back to when I first wrote the article, and slipped through the first FAC! Anyway, I reviewed the source for the rest of the sentence, and the information is implied there. The information is common knowledge in the field, but the issue is addressed in the
1041:
Garbutt 2007, pp. 85–86. (ref 1). I checked the source and it clearly says that all lemurs are most likely descended from a single ancestor, but that is not the emphasis given by the sentence right before that ref, which says "If this species does not form a monophyletic group with the rest of the
1487:
Overall, looks nice (if a bit difficult to understand if you don't know much about taxonomy or lemurs), but one thing that would make it even nicer is a historical picture, maybe of one of the older books about lemur taxonomy, or of one or two of the taxonomists (as nice as the pictures of lemurs
1185:
Why not? There are several real-world articles that explicitly deal with the subject of this article—larger-scale taxonomy—such as
Tattersall (2007) and Yoder (2003, in Goodman and Benstead, 2003), and others that deal just with listing the species and perhaps their particular taxonomic problems,
594:
I've made an attempt to fix that redundancy, so please let me know if it's okay. Otherwise... Wow, Ucucha! You're really on top of this! I really appreciate your help, given that I'm trying to focus my attention this weekend on my research paper. You're welcome to keep making corrections and
1455:
Personally, I read (and wrote) this to demonstrate differences in opinion on the entire lemur species count problem, not as a "for or against" argument for new species. Removing the sentence will definitely make it read like a "for or against" argument. Basically there are many differences in
672:
Dispersal to
Madagascar is an unlikely event, and only very few groups of mammals have made it there, so it's inherently unlikely that primates would have dispersed there twice. The situation with lemurs parallels that with the other three major groups of terrestrial mammals on Madagascar
1321:
how the geography of
Madagascar was more diverse in the past. Personally, I'd remove the link altogether. The real links people need (to the habitat examples) are already there later on in the sentence. If you must have a link, I would pipe it from 'entire island'.
1456:
opinion, with some supporting larger numbers of species, some supporting smaller, and others supporting somewhere in the middle. I would say the sentence under question represents the middle-ground camp, particularly since Yoder's name is on the paper. –
792:
Thanks for the support and suggestions. I've fixed the PDF issue with the citations. As for the navigation template, I would appreciate some suggestions on how to design it? I have a general "lemur topic" I'm gradually working on, which includes
1438:
Is it possible to make clearer whether these other researchers are for or against the increase in number of species? i.e. is that paragraph two examples of 'concerns that species are being identified prematurely', or is it one plus a rebuttal?
648:
I have removed that particular sentence; the piece about molecular and morphological doesn't add much and the "profound implications" seem hyperbolic, given that Owen's arguments clearly didn't convince many biologists for long.
1081:
It's cited to Yoder and Yang (2004, p. 768): "From this node (N8), the following major divergence events, yielding the indriid, lepilemurid, cheirogaleid and lemurid lineages, occurred within a period of approximately 10 Myr."
1481:
Note 6 is nice, though I spent a while trying to do similar calculations for the other years, before realising that you can only do the calculation if you know the details of the subspecies and how many are from the same
1067:"First, the four most closely related living lemur families diverged within a narrow window of approximately 10 million years, making it much harder to distinguish the splits with molecular evidence." Needs a cite. --
1123:
Yoder & Yang 2004, p. 768. for "In addition, these families diverged from their last common ancestor approximately 42 mya; such distant splits create a lot of noise for molecular techniques." Checks out; ref
1398:
Do you need to link 'taxonomy' again in 'Species-level classification'? Also, as this is the section about species, shouldn't that first sentence focus things on the species level, by saying 'Lemur taxonomy is
369:
It is absolutely perfect! Creating an Sfn templates for MSW3 has been on my to-do list for a long time. Thank you, Ucucha, both for the template and jumping in to take care of these issues while I was busy!
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984:. Specifically, that it is an intraorder classification and what that means; it would also be good to mention in the lede that the designation originally was for a genus but this changed over the years. --
1112:
I've removed that sentence. Mittermeier et al. (2008) simply don't cover taxonomy above the family level; there seems little point in saying that in a section about higher-level classification.
1436:"Still other researchers who emphasize the framework of the "general lineage concept of species" contend that lineage divergence or differentiation demarcates the beginning of a new species."
779:
appears to be nicely sourced and well researched, engaging. Suggest that
Rabarivola and Thalmann cites require (PDF) for consistancy, and lemur navigation template is created/added. Regards,
673:(nesomyines, tenrecs, and euplerids)—in each case, older taxonomies often didn't put those together, but modern molecular data shows the Malagasy members of each group are monophyletic.
857:, including both the families and the general topics you mention. We could split them, but I think keeping those two fairly small groups of articles together is more convenient.
526:
non-lemurid mammals on
Madagascar. I know from other articles that there were bats, but can you state explicitly that there were no terrestrial mammals (if that was the case).
894:. The simplicity or complexity kinda depends on the topics you want to put on it. Anyway, from my perspective I'm happy with any relevant navigation. Regards,
1056:
Not sure what the problem is here. The reference supports the text in the article; it has some additional ideas, which are covered elsewhere in this article.
1446:
species). I don't know whether we need this sentence, since the lineage concept doesn't seem a major part of the debate; Visionholder, what do you think?
1516:
No problem. All comments and suggestions addressed (or in the process of being addressed). Happy to add my support and will do so above in my next edit.
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participating, but if so, please include yourself as a co-nominator. I don't want to take all the credit if you're making most of the major fixes. –
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Please check to make sure all the sentences in this article are supported by the references behind them. I'll then do another spot check. --
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Thanks for the excellent suggestion to use historical pictures (art). I've finished making those changes. Also, thanks for the support.
1442:
From reading the source, it appears that the "general lineage concept" is yielding approximately the same result as the PSC (i.e., lots of
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Sussman 2003, pp. 107–148. <- And similar. Can't you narrow that down a bit? Few people will read all that to verify one sentence. --
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then multiple colonization events would have had to occur to explain the present-day distribution of non-human primates on
Madagascar
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in there as well. Do you know of another template I could model it after? Most of the ones I deal with are taxonomic in nature. –
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I am nominating this for featured article because I feel it meets the FAC criteria. The article was recently split off from the FA
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if you want just, well, a list of species, and to this one if you want information about the general taxonomic history of lemurs.
641:— I had to read this sentence and the one preceding it three times before I was sure it made sense. Can it be tweaked for clarity?
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I cut "or more". However, I now notice the species count is mentioned twice in the lead; we should probably remove one of those.
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Also in the lead (final paragraph), the adjacent links to family and rank are distracting and not needed - you can get to the
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lemurs, then multiple colonization events would have had to occur to explain the occurrence of lemurs on
Madagascar." --
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and fixed up further during the GAN. The only significantly new content is the lead and the "Background" section. –
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Having undergone their own independent evolution on
Madagascar, which has few other land mammals, lemurs have...
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Hinged upon morphological traits and molecular data, it has had profound implications on scientific theories.
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I've reworded those; in two of the three places the mention of the rank was not essential, so I cut it out.
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The change to the lead helped. I'll leave you and others to sort out anything further, if more is needed.
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I really liked the nav template by Ucucha, so I've added it to the article (and others). Thanks! –
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such as
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in the pdf. Could you point me to the part of the pdf that supports the above-quoted sentence? --
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407:) are in the Literature cited section, not in the References (unless you count the Sfn usage). –
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1532:(In the future, please make the support more explicit/visible. I've done it for you this time.)
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This gets really confusing, since some sources list 3 or 4 locations. I'll just remove them. –
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Happy with the changes. With regard to the mammal thing, what about something on the lines of
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is awkward to my ear. I would expect "dates back to" or "dates from", rather than 'spans'.
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For an article on taxonomy, I think it is vital to say up front and how "lemur" fits into
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Check for small errors and inconsistencies in reference formatting, for example ref 6
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I've added a few words to this effect. More detail would be more appropriate on the
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225:"such distant splits create a lot of noise for molecular techniques" - source?
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Be consistent in whether you provide publisher locations for books or not.
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I didn't see any others like it when reviewing the rest of the sources. –
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All images check out copyright-wise and contribute well to the article.
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Keep the same formatting for books in References as in Literature cited
1235:. Following the suggestions and responses below, am happy to support.
665:— I'm not clear why multiple arrivals of ancestral lemurs is a problem?
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Thanks for the check. I already checked a large proportion of refs in
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I think the piping of phrases such as 'wide variety of habitats' to
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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Missing bibliographic information for Flower & Lydekker 1891
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is already pushing 100 Kb, so merging wouldn't be wise, IMO. –
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well sourced, well written and comprehensive. A great article.
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Be consistent in how multiple authors/editors are notated
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I have changed the MSW3 citations to use a new template,
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Currently there are approximately 100 or more recognized
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Featured article candidates/Taxonomy of lemurs/archive1
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825:. I could probably also include the general article
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should be linked to the article on lemur evolution.
1564:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
360:. Visionholder, if you disagree, please revert.
318:I think my fix for the next comment fixes this.
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1570:No further edits should be made to this page.
397:Please explain. The only cited books (using
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
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265:No citations to Godfrey & Jungers 2003
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41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
545:carnivores, a possibly indigenous shrew (
1252:First sentence of the lead, the phrase
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1274:"independent evolution on Madagascar"
567:— I'd be inclined to lose either the
18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
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329:Why not use the same formatting for
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1296:article from near the top of the
1151:, but will do a little more now.
870:Was thinking of something like
522:I'm unclear whether there were
1403:Reworded that first sentence.
803:Evolutionary history of lemurs
742:Evolutionary history of lemurs
185:Evolutionary history of lemurs
1:
1272:Second sentence of the lead,
805:, and the upcoming articles:
335:Natural History of Madagascar
1260:Changed "spans" to "dates".
1507:. Thanks for the comments!
331:Mammal Species of the World
31:featured article nomination
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689:Support and one suggestion
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1567:Please do not modify it.
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36:Please do not modify it.
1318:Geography of Madagascar
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548:Suncus madagascariensis
210:- spotchecks not done.
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1188:List of lemur species
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282:That example fixed.
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1199:Not only that, but
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952:Operation Big Bear
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139:Citation bot
69:
54:SandyGeorgia
49:
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1164:TCO comment
890:Felidae nav
728:talk to me?
701:talk to me?
510:talk to me?
355:MSW3 Groves
1518:Carcharoth
1490:Carcharoth
1444:Microcebus
1381:Carcharoth
1237:Carcharoth
896:SunCreator
882:Spider nav
781:SunCreator
459:Nikkimaria
212:Nikkimaria
1148:this edit
1019:Fixed. –
944:Wizardman
874:Shark nav
744:article.
721:Jimfbleak
694:Jimfbleak
537:rodents,
535:nesomyine
503:Jimfbleak
402:cite book
268:Removed.
229:paper. –
1482:species.
1417:sympatry
1300:article.
1166:: (FL)
543:euplerid
497:Comments
345:MSW3 Sfn
134:Analysis
50:promoted
1423:Added.
1348:Fixed.
1233:Support
777:Support
760:Support
573:or more
571:or the
539:tenrecs
446:Added.
432:Fixed.
333:as for
254:Added.
126:Toolbox
89:protect
84:history
1509:Ucucha
1488:are).
1448:Ucucha
1425:Ucucha
1405:Ucucha
1372:Ucucha
1350:Ucucha
1331:Ucucha
1306:Ucucha
1282:Ucucha
1280:Done.
1262:Ucucha
1192:Ucucha
1153:Ucucha
1114:Ucucha
1084:Ucucha
1058:Ucucha
859:Ucucha
821:, and
764:Coolug
746:Ucucha
675:Ucucha
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583:Ucucha
553:Ucucha
448:Ucucha
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362:Ucucha
320:Ucucha
284:Ucucha
270:Ucucha
256:Ucucha
177:Ucucha
93:delete
1544:talk
1466:talk
1213:talk
1094:find
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917:talk
839:talk
795:Lemur
605:talk
481:talk
417:talk
380:talk
301:talk
239:talk
197:talk
166:talk
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1522:talk
1494:talk
1385:talk
1241:talk
1176:talk
1126:does
768:talk
463:talk
216:talk
106:logs
80:talk
76:edit
1172:TCO
1133:mav
1100:mav
1069:mav
1044:mav
1007:mav
986:mav
964:mav
886:or
717:?
524:any
52:by
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