889:, so deleting the user subpage would make the archived discussion make less sense. I'd be inclined to keep any subpage which is linked to by archived discussion on a talk page, because user subpages are a common tool used by editors when they want to put across a point which can't fit in a simple message. I'd have no problem with deleting subpages that aren't linked to by any page outside Ed's userspace and this MFD. The MFD that Collect mentioned above is at
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another editor. They can not all get the same consideration, and it will be a logistical nightmare for every participant in this MfD to write up a separate evaluation as to each nominated page. I suggest speedily closing this MfD and renominating these pages in smaller groups bound together by specific attributes common to the group, with some attention to the time that the pages have sat unattended.
1441:- about 2/3 of the above nominated pages have now been speedily deleted by author request (file this under "all you had to do was ask"), along with a bunch of pages not nominated here. I'm fine with holding off on the remaining handful for a few weeks to give Ed time to work that out (although, let's be frank, it can't take more than an hour to get them all copied to a text file).
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i think that's a valid use. the sort of material I'd expect on a web host site would be very different and much more polemic. I am prepared to extend the widest possible tolerance to good contributors, especially those whose world views are so different from my own. If he were an evolutionist with a variant on what these pages should look like, would we be trying to remove them?
406:"While userpages and subpages can be used as a development ground for generating new content, this space is not intended to indefinitely archive your preferred version of disputed or previously deleted content or indefinitely archive permanent content that is meant to be part of the encyclopedia. In other words, Knowledge (XXG) is not a free web host. "
1226:'Aspects of Evolution' is the 3rd Google hit when you type in the phrase. Moving deleted articles into userspace is in fact a way of keeping them as articles. I don't know the motivation here, but I am sure that there are more than a handful of editors who know that they can get a lot of publicity by putting stuff in userspace.
762:- while Ed is a long-term contributor, he can add these articles to Conserveapedia...most or all are unreferenced/ barely referenced and have POV sprinkled throughout...if he was working on these right now, I wouldn't have a problem....but a year or more is a lonnng time to not be working on something. —
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policy was being violated, by users refusing to allow minority views into articles on controversial topics. As some of you may know, the arbcom ruled that it is inappropriate to delete well-referenced information merely because that info "advances a point of view". I was collecting this material so I
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on two main grounds: first, the different pages are unequal in scope, intent, and quality. Second, although most of the content is original research, it is not intended to actually make it into articles. If E.P. wants to bring this stuff up in talk page discussions about how to interpret sources for
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Is there any evidence that these pages are being used for disruption? without that that, i think they're well within policy. They are suggestions for wp content, tho ones that have not been accepted here. I'm sure they;'re intended in the hope that they may become content yet, if others agree, and
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as inactive copies of deleted mainspace material; userspace is not intended to be used to preserve such material indefinitely, and these pages are not apparently being worked on. Ed Poor should be allowed a chance to copy the material for his own use, but these subpages violate our userspace policy
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Roux, I agree that the content is original research, in the same sense that many behind-the-scenes aspects of
Knowledge (XXG) are original research, such as the arguments used in this discussion we are having. I agree that it is unlikely to make it into article state in its present form. I disagree
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Might be valid had not three years been considered reasonable in another MfD. And, absent an indication that the user intended the material to be part of the encyclopedia or that the material was "previously deleted" that part also fails. Meanwhile the discussion on "userfication" is available
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I am dubious about mass nominations, especially when all pages nominated do not fall into the same class of problem. Some of these pages are apparently drafts or storage for article material. Some are essays, and those so labeled should be treated accordingly. One is a list of grievances against
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which is a violation of WP:NOT on several levels; I note that at least one is simply an attack page - which Tim is apparently planning to Afd seperately. None of them are necessary or useful for building an encyclopedia. Ed's endless POV pushing and attacks and smears on those whom he views as
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This discussion is not concerned with who the editor is, nor if similar material exists elsewhere. As to if these pages contain material that is being actively-prepared for use in mainspace, several of these pages have not been edited for years - take a look at their edit histories.
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Perhaps you should have used that argument on a page which had not been edited for well over three years. And was kept. There is no requirement that userspace articles be intended to go to mainspace at all. IMHO, mass deletions require a stronger argument than that. YMMV.
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At the moment, they have not been deleted, so if Ed wants to work on them later he can save them on his computer. Or post them in a blog at MySpace or any of thousands of other places on the
Internet. If he hasn't done so already, he can post them on Conservapedia,
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Reasonable point, I'll remove the essays and attack page, and nominate that separately. I did check for recent edits, I think none of these are being actively-edited or has a chance of being moved into mainspace. The ones that have been edited recently are
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for one user and not respectful of the foundation or the donors who support it. Then there's the many previous issues with POV forks which sprang forth from his userspace requiring in AFD and xFD, literally several dozen over the years. Stop the madness.
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Should that matter? If I have a bunch of userfied POV fork subpages which I never work on (and never intend to), can I shield them from deletion just by linking to them from a talk page discussion? I oppose erecting a loophole of this sort.
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per
Collect, and in light of Ed's longevity. I see no compelling reason that these are brought up for deletion, which in my mind is a better question than divining whether they are actively under development for promotion to mainspace.
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got deleted a while back and is I suppose on the chopping block once again. If you guys censor that one, you'll be making a bright line distinction between neutrality and bias. Think it over carefully before you commit yourself.
1064:"(moved Naturalistic evolution to User:Ed Poor/Naturalistic evolution: I want to see if I can whip this article into shape. It's a creationist term for evolution which SPECIFICALLY denies God had anything to do with the process)"
818:. The length of "service" of an editor should not impact on how we treat them. While length of service is a good way of judging someones knowledge of policy and experience it is not a way to apportion trust; we have
706:-- e.g. 'Aspects of Evolution'), their growing number, and the potential for some newbie reader to mistake them for mainspace articles (a potential that rises as the number of them rises). Pruning is needed.
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here, so going by how long another article survived in
Userspace is counter-productive. Right now, these are not being developed. If Ed wants to work on them later, an admin can provide them via email. —
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That subpage is only relied upon (by Ed) in the talk discussion for quotes, only one of which is relevant to that discussion, that in 'Is ID scientific, religious, or what?' section. This quote is from
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VERY long term editor. Material does not appear to be any worse than many others in userspace, and as a group, has not been on an inordinate length of time, and the deletion action ought to fail.
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is still too short a time for an editor to rework their preferred version of an article? Userspace isn't somewhere that people can keep a permanent archive of content that violated our policies.
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499:, which has been edited by Ed within the last year. No reason Ed can't save the rest these in a notepad on his own computer until he is ready to work on them (should that ever happen).
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The policy does not address disruption, it instead states that userspace cannot be used to permanently archive deleted material or POV forks. Do you think three years after an AfD
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1177:, and it turns out that (by my rough count) he has approx 300 subpages. I would submit that this is excessive, even for "an established editor", constitutes using wikipedia as a
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is inappropriate, since that might be very confusing to a inexperienced editor who does not understand the difference between the namespaces. Would you mind if I redirected
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articles, it is not clear to me that this would be a problem. Ultimately, I'm not certain what the harm to WP is from allowing E.P. to keep this content in userspace. <
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1082:. That also looks to me like trying to avoid deletion through gaming the system. However, trying to infer people's intentions is always difficult, so I might be wrong.
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814:: Knowledge (XXG) is not a webhost. The pages are old, not used and not appropriate to be turned into articles; as such, it cannot be argued that they are articles
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That essay (which I've now tagged as an essay) wasn't part of this MfD, but I've changed the target of that redirect. That will avoid any confusion, thank you.
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It is even more likely that people will get confused when these "userspace POV forks" are linked to by cross-namespace redirects from mainspace, as was done at
1123:" (emphasis mine), as well as the fact that many of these haven't been touched in ages. All these pages are is Ed's POV forking moved into userspace. They will
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I obviously can't say I know what Ed was thinking in all the cases where he requested that articles be copied into his userspace after AfD discussions, but at
642:- I don't quite understand how "longevity" is a reason to keep. We don't have seniority on Knowledge (XXG) (well, not for this sort of thing, anyway). -
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has now been moved from article namespace, to
Knowledge (XXG) namespace and now to userspace (where it has remained for three years), as discussed in
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So the content is original research, not meant to make it into any articles, has no use for furthering the project... how does that not run afoul of
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Archived POV forks of articles that are not being edited in preparation for replacement in mainspace. Knowledge (XXG) ia not a free web host. --
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NPOV policy. But if you're giving me a choice between outright deletion and orphaning my essay, I certainly would like to avoid deletion. --
702:, failure to make any effort to turn these pages into legitimate candidate articles (and a number of them don't appear to be even candidate
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that it has no use for furthering the project and I do not understand how you could honestly derive this impression from my keep vote. <
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This is just a bunch of POV forks that, based on Ed Poor's previous history, will be used to add into mainspace articles. Not necessary.
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I've just created a quick rundown of some of this long list of subpages, that we might also wish to consider for deletion, at
1043:? In addition, this all seems like stuff that Ed was trying to insert into multiple articles, as seen at the ArbCom cases. //
453:
1074:, on the face of it this move sees to be an attempt to circumvent the AfD deletion consensus. Similarly, the Ed's article on
1072:"moved Journalistic Fraud (2003 book) to User:Ed Poor/Journalistic Fraud (2003 book): to prevent deletion, i.e., censorship)"
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982:- collection of POV forks; Ed's habit of creating these kinds of articles is one of the major problems with Ed's editing.
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opposers of his very narrow fringe view has led to nothing but trouble both for him and the rest of us. Ditch it all.
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in any case. I therefore don't think the page's elimination would detract much from this 22-month-old discussion.
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WT:Miscellany for deletion/Ed Poor subpages#More Ed Poor subpages that possibly should be considered for deletion
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a
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per nom. If these pages were once intended to be worked into the mainspace, they have long been abandoned. -
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below.
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Thanks for your comment Roux, but please focus on content and policy, not contributors.
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Seems Ed was banned from that article and talkpage anyways by Raul654 per the terms of
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could report the systematic NPOV violations of people who censor
Knowledge (XXG). See
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520:. No indication that this batch of articles is kept for any other reason than spite.
290:- Knowledge (XXG) is not a host for your ill-thought-out screeds against reality. //
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as not contributing to building an encyclopedia, and causing potential confusion. .
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Probably when you said "Second, although most of the content is original research,
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for comments, I think, and you might wish to indicate your opinions there as well.
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Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject
Aspects of evolution
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Terms used in the creation-evolution debate
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Apparent indefinite retention of material contrary to WP:USER, per Tim
Vickers.
1340:- at least long enough for me to copy them all somewhere. And I object to the
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Actually, I'd like my essay moved back into WP namespace, because it
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be moved back into mainspace, and serve no purpose covered by either
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User talk:Ed Poor/Archive 21#Comments and edits to
Intelligent Design
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Journalistic Fraud (2003 book)
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Ed's motives appear different, since his edit summary stated
222:- userfied expired prod, has not been edited since July 2007
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Aspects of evolution
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an archived discussion on the intelligent design talk page
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250+ user subpages is a ridiculous amount of server space
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Evolution is a fact
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User:Ed Poor/Terms used in the creation-evolution debate
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his intentions were clear, since his move summary said
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Xe's referring to the other 8 words in your rationale.
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comment. The only reason I made these, is because the
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the lot; Ed has nearly 300 subpages in his userspace:
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Climate alarmism
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it is not intended to actually make it into articles.
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Deletion does not free up server space. It actually
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User:Ed Poor/definitions of politicization of science
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As per just above, Wickipedia is not a webhost, and
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Evolution poll
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158:, has not been edited since (last edit August 2006)
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
957:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2
931:Intelligent Design and Evolution Awareness Center
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881:: I don't have time to checdk the rest now, but
1372:I think having a cross-namespace redirect from
226:User:Ed Poor/Satellite temperature measurements
8:
1161:. These all appear to be defunct POVFORKS.
862:database size. Wikis are not filesystems.
497:User:Ed Poor/Journalistic Fraud (2003 book)
200:User:Ed Poor/Journalistic Fraud (2003 book)
132:, not edited since (last edit January 2007)
116:, not edited since (last edit October 2005)
473:per Tim Vickers's very apt quotation from
18:Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion
269:User:Ed Poor/The Meanings of Evolution
178:, single edit to this page since 2005
126:User:Ed Poor/text of climate alarmism
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537:- We don't have a formal system of
162:User:Ed Poor/Naturalistic evolution
1246:Knowledge (XXG):Flat earth problem
236:For complete list of subpages see
230:Satellite temperature measurements
136:User:Ed Poor/scientific mainstream
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323:policy. WP is not a webhost. //
238:Special:PrefixIndex/User:Ed_Poor
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152:User:Ed Poor/Evolution is a fact
477:. There's no arguing that. --
271:, so I haven't included those.
1388:, which is the actual policy?
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456:is not a reason to keep it.
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1483:Please do not modify it.
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32:Please do not modify it.
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1422:Tim Vickers
1390:Tim Vickers
1250:Tim Vickers
1084:Tim Vickers
607:Tim Vickers
414:Tim Vickers
378:Tim Vickers
307:Tim Vickers
273:Tim Vickers
166:old version
79:Tim Vickers
1292:dave souza
1228:dougweller
1179:WP:WEBHOST
1041:WP:WEBHOST
822:for that.
729:WP:WEBHOST
700:WP:WEBHOST
491:Delete all
458:dougweller
46:delete all
1308:Pete.Hurd
984:Guettarda
860:increases
824:Ironholds
789:SNALWIBMA
738:rootology
683:Everyking
539:precedent
481:Cyde Weys
319:Er, that
50:Aervanath
1465:Terraxos
1408:Uncle Ed
1404:supports
1360:Uncle Ed
1342:POV fork
1171:Comment:
816:in utero
801:contribs
663:User:DGG
627:Jclemens
1386:WP:NPOV
1224:Comment
1133:WP:USER
879:Comment
864:Uncle G
733:WP:USER
725:Delete:
696:Delete:
640:Comment
475:WP:USER
429:Collect
410:WP:USER
393:Collect
363:Collect
340:Uncle G
1460:Delete
1446:bd2412
1355:almost
1321:Delete
1304:delete
1288:Delete
1276:Marlin
1271:Orange
1265:Delete
1163:Jayjg
1159:Delete
1129:WP:ENC
997:Delete
980:Delete
915:bd2412
896:Graham
837:Delete
812:Delete
783:Delete
760:Delete
731:, and
704:topics
603:delete
566:bd2412
535:Delete
518:Delete
504:bd2412
494:except
471:Delete
450:Delete
408:- see
288:Delete
249:bd2412
1325:kotra
1211:Stalk
1207:Hrafn
1189:Stalk
1185:Hrafn
1135:. //
1125:never
1113:: -->
1111:edits
1102:eland
1033:: -->
1031:edits
1022:eland
945:Stalk
941:Hrafn
935:WP:RS
714:Stalk
710:Hrafn
644:kotra
53:lives
16:<
1469:talk
1439:Note
1426:talk
1412:talk
1394:talk
1364:talk
1346:NPOV
1338:Keep
1329:talk
1312:talk
1296:talk
1254:talk
1244:and
1232:talk
1139:roux
1107:talk
1088:talk
1047:roux
1027:talk
1014:Keep
988:talk
969:talk
868:talk
850:talk
828:talk
795:talk
727:per
698:per
687:talk
679:Keep
670:talk
661:per
659:Keep
648:talk
631:talk
622:Keep
611:talk
593:talk
582:Keep
526:talk
462:talk
433:talk
418:talk
397:talk
382:talk
367:talk
359:Keep
344:talk
327:roux
311:talk
294:roux
277:talk
267:and
83:talk
1384:to
1376:to
1131:or
820:RfA
588:DGG
48:.--
1471:)
1428:)
1414:)
1396:)
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1358:--
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870:)
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767:Ed
753:)
747:)(
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56:in
1467:(
1453:T
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866:(
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744:C
741:(
685:(
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573:T
549::
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511:T
460:(
431:(
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365:(
342:(
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256:T
81:(
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