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and the map. On the first paragraph you brought up, why leave out self respect and social reform? It has been explained in detail in the article. It is true that
Periyar belonged to a wealthy and respectable family, but I think you are confusing the word "witness" to "victim". The sentence stated that Periyar was a "witness to discrimination", not "victim to discrimination". Victim of discrimination means "being discriminated against", while witness of discrimination means "seeing others getting discriminated against". However, he was discriminated against in Kasi. Further, all these statements have been quoted from books, journals, and sites with page number, etc. As for peacock terms such as "numerous", and dates clarifications, it will be looked into. As for the sentence
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India, true. But, it would be the same as talking about a freedom fighter from Kosovo and stating he was
Serbian. Or, it would be like referring to a Kurdish Freedom activist (for an independent Kurdistan) as a Turkish activist fighting for the Kurds. True, Periyar was living in British made India and was automatically a citizen, but after his short time with Congress, he never ran for office. Now, on the other hand, it would be legitimate to call Annadurai, or Karunanidhi Indian, since they decided to remain with India and run for political offices. It may not be a bad idea to remove the word politician from the first sentence when describing Periyar, just let me know what you think.
244:"Periyar's primary principles of focus was on rationalism, self-respect, social reform, eradication of caste, and women’s rights. To his followers and admirers, he was a courageous advocate for the rights of humanity and the preservation of Dravidian cultures. He was a man who indicted Indo-Aryan India in the harshest terms for its exploitation, imposition, and marginalization of the indigenous Dravidian peoples who were non-Brahmin. Those who had a dislike for Periyar accused him of attacking Hinduism and the Brahmin community. But his was targeted against Brahminism and not Brahmins, and the manipulation of Hinduism and not Hinduism as a faith."
389:"The Dravidians have a distinct origin in society, their languages are independent and belong to a separate class. The terms “Aryan” and “Dravidian” are not my inventions. They are historical realities. They can be found in any school boy’s text book. That the Ramayana is an allegoric representation of the invading Aryans and the domiciled Dravidians, has been accepted by all historians including Pandit Nehru and all reformers including Swami Vivekananda. My desire is not to perpetuate this difference, but to unify the two opposing elements in society.
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section that
Periyar started the Self-respect movement. I guess the usage of "Self-Respect movement" would be more appropriate than simply "Self-respect". The reason why Periyar uses the term "self-respect" is given in the article on Self-respect movement. As for the term "reforms", of course, a social reformer tries to introduce reforms in society. What else can you expect of him? The introduction of the term "social reform" in the second paragraph after specifying that he was a social-reformer in the first paragraph ne does not carry any purpose.
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since
Sanskritization of the Tamil country might have started, the world has seen a lot of things. Even in the case of an "Indo-Aryan race", we should not forget the fact that wave after wave of Greeks, Sakas, Turks, Afghans, Persians invaded the north. Though the South was almost completely free of external invasions, there were still settlers from different parts of the world. So, a pure "Indo-Aryan" or "Dravidian" race does not seem to exist for all practical purposes. -
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also said to have come in from Burma, Singapore, and
Malaysia, from non-Brahmin immigrants, Muslims and Christians. Gandhi tried under the circumstances to keep the whole thing an inter-Hindu affair. However, in the end a compromise was reached. The streets in the temple area were opened to Harijans or Untouchables. In 1936, they were allowed to enter the temple. The Satyagraha paved the way for subsequent Temple Entry Act.
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against
Brahmins, in particular. Today, his followers venerate him as a powerful advocate of human rights and the protector of Dravidian cultures while critics and political opponents often quote some of his controversial statements and actions to accuse him of double standards, iconoclasm and of being anti-Hindu and anti-Brahmin."
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By the way, I had another look at the lead section and have one more suggestion to make. The article starts with "Periyar E. V. Ramasamy" which is not appropriate. He was never known as "Periyar E. V. Ramasamy". He was officially known as "E. V. Ramasamy" and known as "Periyar" amongst his followers.
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Well, "numerous" is a term which carries a great deal of ambiguity. "The internal structure of the
Congress Party had withered following its numerous splits". How numerous? Ten might be numerous for you, while I might feel that ten is too little. Three might be "numerous" for another person. So, such
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describes the 16th
Confederation of the South Indian Liberal Federation held in Tiruchirapalli in 1945 where the concept of Dravida Nadu was clearly defined by Periyar. If Periyar had changed the S.I.L.F. to Dravidar Kazhagam in 1944, then how come S.I.L.F. existed in 1945. I have sources which state
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With regards to the Hindu article you presented, it looks interesting, but was edited poorly. For example, up to the second paragraph, it is in regular fonts, then at the end of the second paragraph it breaks off into italics to the very end of the document. Also, if you look at the third to the last
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Thanks so much for your input. You are right about the use of “self-respect” being misunderstood by non-South Asians and also, for the fact that it is hyperlinked to the actual word “self-respect. Do you think that "self-respect" should be left as it is and hyperlinked to "Self-Respect
Movement". Or,
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And yes, Periyar was against India,but then, "officially" he was a citizen of India. As for his being witness to caste, class and gender discrimination, you should consider one important thing - early in his life, he became a sadhu and travelled on a pilgrimage to Kasi. And the things he witnessed at
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As a leader of the
Satyagraha Periyar was imprisoned twice. Gandhi, who was also present on the Vaikom scence, was disturbed about the whole affair but seemingly unable to stop it. His concern grew when other religious groups became involved. Thus the Sikh community offered to met expenses. Money was
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or not depends roughly on human discretion and not on any specific Knowledge lists. From what I understand, phrases that don't convey anything useful to the article are to be avoided altogether. This would include things like "He was a very famous man", etc. The lists given contains only some of the
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As for stating that Periyar was a Dravidian Social Reformer from India, or Indian Social Reformer for the Dravidian movement, it should be left as Dravidian social activist from India. The reason being that he advocated for the rights of Dravidians, not Aryans in India. As for him being a citizen of
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I might be wrong about Periyar's views on the Dravidian race but I don't agree that there were two or more different races in existence in India. Maybe, they would've existed thousands of years back, but to speak in racial terms in the twentieth century would not be appropriate. In the two millenia
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trying to make the whole article a proof test of genetics that Dravidians do not exist. This type of mentality is no different from that of the German Nazis of the WWII era. It's funny that it was noticed there was one editor on a quest in Knowledge to remove the word "ethnicity" from pages such as
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As for "self-respect", though the term and its meaning appears crystal clear for us, it doesn't appear so to non-Indians. I would suggest that you leave aside that term if you desire to promote a worldwide understanding of the subject. And, by the way, you've already stated at the beginning of the
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In reply to Ravichandar84, Periyar did not reject Dravidian as a racial term. As a matter of fact he considers both Aryans and Dravidians two separate races. He was a Dravidian social reformer, from India. As far as him being "Indian" or not, he rejected India, burnt the Indian flag, constitution,
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You have a point. However, as previously stated, there are differences between the way English is spoken and understood between those from India and those from Western countries. Here are a few more examples of FA articles that use "numerous" amongst many other FA articles using the related word.
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As for the word "Social reformer and politician" (in the first sentence of the intro), why don't we change it to "Social activist and politician"? Then we can leave the second sentence as it is, since it is condensing the section on Periyar’s principles (ideologies). The intro paragraph is pretty
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I've listed this article for peer review because it is very imformative and it has been written with a neutral point of view for a very notable but controversial person and has been done after a great deal of hardwork and after resolving disputes it was protected at one point for over 9 months .I
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is an FA and is pretty well-written. But then, an featured article need not be spotless either. There might one or two small mistakes that have beaten the eye of the reviewers at the time of the nom. That's why, we have a featured article review process. But then, it is better to rectify in case
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There is nothing in the article which stated that a S.I.L.F. conference took place in 1946, nor is there any passage stating or making it seem that the party existed up to 1951. The way this article was written was in native English. Perhaps, there could be a confusion between the way English is
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for what he perceived as their attempts to dominate and enslave Dravidian people and extinguish their cultures. His attacks on Brahmins have always been controversial and frequently cited by critics and opponents of Periyar. However, some explain that Periyar was only against Brahninism and not
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What he meant was that he does not advocate race hate, or to run the movement based on the Dravidians being a superior entitity. With regards to "blood tests", he meant those that go to the extent of the Germans to prove they are a distinct race by such methods. This sounds very similar to the
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Anyways, apart from how the article was presented, for the sake of argument, it is indeed true as stated that Dravidians and Aryans are two separate race groups (families of ethnicities), cultures, and families of languages. But, with the statement made by Periyar below, it is
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please do not repeat the title or header in a header or subheader, so change "Periyar’s principles", perhaps to just "Principles", or "Reasons for leaving the Congress Party" should not repeat "Congress Party" since it is in the "Member of Congress Party (1919-1925)"
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section of Indo-Aryans who state that their race is the only race in existence throughout India, and that Dravidians do not exist. Or, that Tamil, Telugu and other Dravidians languages came from Sanskrit. Or, for those on wikipedia as can be seen in the article
220:"Dravidian", as a racial term, was rejected by Periyar, himself. So, I feel that the article could be started in the following way and terms such as "Dravidian social-reformer" be avoided in favor of something which is more neutral.
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Kasi were the ones which made him reject Hinduism. And he had a change of heart. But the sentence used in the lead section conveys a wrong impression that right from his birth, he witnessed caste, class and gender discrimination.
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be considered peacock term? What if something happened or had taken place more than once, as in "constantly", "on a regular basis", or "many times" - where there is no exact count? Then how would that be rephrased or re-worded?
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But the fundamental difference between two different cultures, Aryan and Dravidian, cannot be refuted by anyone who has closely studied the daily life, habits and customs and literature of these two distinct elements in South
891:"Numerous" is a word which denotes amounts or numbers of people or other items, not how great someone is. Anyways, "numerous" has also been used in the following articles along with the Gandhi article being of FA status:
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are the pre-conditions in using human judgment. On the contrary, there are others who tend to use "human judgment" without such pre-conditions only to push for their POV and biased agendas. Anyways, as for the word
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Sharp eyes you have. Thanks for spotting that. It was corrected. The pdf file you presented was pretty interesting, though many texts and journals state that the Justice Party ended around 1944. Anyways, good job.
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I am not a believer in the race theory as propounded by the late Nazi leader of Germany. None can divide the South Indian people into two races by means of any blood test. It is not only suicidal but most
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I am not a believer in the race theory as propounded by the late Nazi leader of Germany. None can divide the South Indian people into two races by means of any blood test. It is not only suicidal but most
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As for the sentence "and still continues today to stand up for the rights of humanity", many right-wingers would dispute this claim. So, it does not indicate an universal perception of
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Periyar's ideology is spoken at the end of the article. If this paragraph is moved to the bottom of the lead section, then the lead would follow the same format as the article itself.
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That's the lead section for you. I don't have time to assess the rest of the article, but I am sure there will be people here who would :-). Anyway, that's all for now-
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Deciding whether a particular wording is suitable on any given occasion is a matter of common sense and good editorial judgment.However, oft-abused words include:
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was an Indian politician and social reformer of the Dravidian movement. He was the founder-leader of the Dravidar Kazhagam and started the Self-Respect Movement"
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as "numerous". As far as I know, Periyar belonged to a wealthy, respectable family. The first instance of caste-based discrimination he witnessed was at
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1285:"Whether particular phrases constitute peacock terms or weasel words or not depends roughly on human discretion and not on any specific Knowledge lists"
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contains an usage of the word "many" which is the reason why I marked out the usage of "numerous" which has more or less the same meaning as "many". -
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I need some clarification about this. The article refers to a South Indian Liberal Federation conference happening as late as 1946. Though most
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And then, as per Wikipeda guidelines, you cannot allow initials. You should rather expand them. I'd rather suggest that the article start as:
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I would try to avoid numbered and bullet lists and make prose that flows better. Also there are a lot of block quotes which obstruct flow.
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256:"Periyar's ideology was based on rationalism, pan-Dravidian nationalism, eradication of caste, and women’s rights. He condemned
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I feel that the article needs to be thoroughly copy-edited. I copy-edited the lead section and am providing my suggestion here.
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308:"Today, the Dravidar Kazhagam is headed by K. Veeramani who has been an ardent supporter of Periyar’s Dravidian movement,
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paragraph, it looks like the editor must have read my numerous arguments on Knowledge, then parroted what I said. Lol…
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My rule of thumb is that every quote, every statistic, every extraordinary claim and every paragraph needs a ref.
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I also suggest that more images (PD and dair use images I mean) be added to the article. And then you could use
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on Knowledge articles is pretty much POV unless guided by rules. Anyways, your opinions are respected. Regards.
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With that said, here are some passages of Periyar’s statements regarding Dravidian Race from the book titled
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hip hop, pop and contemporary R&B artists... distinctive musical sound and vocal style have influenced
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which appeared on India's Republic Day and was reproduced on the occasion of India's 61st independence day.
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sentences carry no meaning at all. Normally, such terms should be avoided if accurate stats are available.
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spoken in India and in the U.S.? Sorry if there was a confusion. Anyways, thanks for your input. Regards.
272:"At a young age, he had been a witness to numerous incidents of racial, caste and gender discrimination."
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If possible, I would suggested that this paragraph be reworded. I find the first line to be quite weak.
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Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at
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616:"South India is quite different from the North in many respects. It is a distinct and separate State of
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He is considered an icon of rationalism. and is most famous for his Self-Respect Movement in Tamil Nadu.
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At a young age, he has been a witness to numerous incidents of racial, caste and gender discrimination.
294:"In 1939, Periyar headed the Justice Party , and in 1944, he changed the name to Dravidar Kazhagam."
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that a party by name Justice Party contested the 1951 Madras Assembly elections and won a seat. See
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Changed the last sentence from "still continues today to stand up for the rights of humanity" to
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441:. You can, instead, state that he "continues to propagate Periyar's principles of rationalism".-
1287:. If that were the case, then we would not need Knowledge guidelines and regulations. Further,
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1060:- "...especially Raymond Moley when designing his policies; he offered cabinet positions to
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291:'s school, etc., took place when he was a member of the INC and a full-fledged politician.
343:, could you tell me what is POV about that? Thanks for bringing these issues up. Regards.
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styles, including that of craftwork by the Malanggan people of northern New Ireland..."
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I would suggest that the following paragraph be moved to the end of the lead section.
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would like to thank all involved for resolving disputes and and building the article.
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that of Kannadiga people, Tamil people, and so on... As for the sentence that states
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It is true that deciding whether a particular wording is suitable or not depends on
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Well, you could create a section on "Definition of Self-Respect" in the article on
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136:: Interesting article. Very briefly, here are some suggestions for improvement.
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public institutions and memorials across India are dedicated to Nehru's memory".
575:, he was not talking of the whole of the Indian Sub-continent (North and South).
287:. Well, I wouldn't say that he was "young" at that time. The incident involving
226:"Erode Venkata Ramasamy (September 17, 1879 – December 24, 1973), also known as
1212:- "...missions on enemy command posts, bunkers, and personnel shelters, making
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Always better to identify who these people are - who considered him and icon?
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1222:- "...commissioned more than two dozen fleet and light fleet carriers, and
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multinational corporations... The coastline of the city is indented with
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most frequently used peacock terms and weasel words and not all of them.-
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655:, that will be worked on. Once again, thanks for your input. Regards.
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tax cuts... In 1950, the Senate, led by Estes Kefauver, investigated
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653:"and still continues today to stand up for the rights of humanity."
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complaints in the ensuing years reverted to Williams' original..."
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strikes... The Republican majority in Congress, anxious to enact
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and still continues today to stand up for the rights of humanity.
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and still continues today to stand up for the rights of humanity.
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interests. There are many proofs to illustrate this in Kural".
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Needs a copy edit to clean up typos and grammar, for example
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It is a good pratice to expand the initials of the subject.
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and then proceeds to list some commonly used peacock terms.
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Finally, the last sentence of the intro paragraph stating,
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Added the word "former" to "politician" in first sentence
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Periyars primary principles of focus was on rationalism...
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As per suggestions, the following have been implemented:
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review of the article for issues relating to grammar and
1172:- "Her English-language material has been influenced by
573:"none can divide the South Indian people into two races"
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would be better as "was a witness" or perhaps "had been"
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challenges to its continued existence... but following
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offers... Furthermore, the Harry S. Truman Library has
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in first sentence, and hyper-linked "self-respect" to
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I strongly feel that the claim that I've depicted in
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Or the block quote in Periyar and Gandhi needs a ref
1202:- "...in the War of 1812, at Tripoli, Chapultepec,
1162:hip hop, pop... Throughout his career he received
782:"continues his legacy of upliftment in Tamil Nadu"
1803:Peer review pages with semiautomated peer reviews
1246:- "The Ganges delta and the Sundarbans area have
748:, but found numerous other words in the article.
470:should we change it to "Self-Respect Movement"?
1206:counter-insurgency and occupational duties..."
1022:- "Webster's legacy has been commemorated by
223:I would suggest that the article start with:
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1140:tourist attractions in Mumbai... Mumbai has
191:(which is how I found this article). Yours,
111:This peer review discussion has been closed.
1196:aircraft were committed to the garrison..."
913:occasions, in both South Africa and India".
301:members were involved in the creation of a
1762:. The article would look more beautiful. -
1064:candidates... By this time, Roosevelt had
234:(Tamil: பெரியார், Kannada: ಪೆರಿಯಾರ್ ) and
94:A script has been used to generate a semi-
1118:other functionaries of the Government..."
1114:- "...exercises supervisory powers over
909:- "He was imprisoned for many years, on
1084:- "Besides these atheists, there were
866:Whether particular phrases constitute
689:and provide the link in this article.
626:"Manu’s code is against the Sudra of
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488:much a summary of the whole article.
1132:creeks and bays... Many of India's
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1256:- "...Tagore took to emulating
1230:Richard Williams (RAAF officer)
1148:Indian and foreign channels..."
1046:charges... He also turned down
812:Characteristics and pre-cursors
1632:Erode Venkata Naicker Ramasamy
1356:Words and phrases to watch for
1216:cuts on enemy trench lines..."
1098:stories surrounding Gaṇeśa..."
144:The "most famous" needs a ref.
102:style; it can be found on the
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1549:Knowledge:Avoid peacock terms
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765:Changed "Social reformer" to
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189:Knowledge:Peer review/backlog
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158:Do not italicize quotes per
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1547:Well, the first example in
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253:I make my suggestion here:
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1200:United States Marine Corps
1144:newspaper publications...
1136:conglomerates... explores
907:Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
594:Collected Works of Periyar
104:automated peer review page
1808:January 2009 peer reviews
1496:, it is another word for
1634:, affectionately called
1078:jokes and one-liners..."
368:. This is an article in
279:to me. Please don't use
212:Ravichandar84's comments
1489:good editorial judgment
1481:good editorial judgment
260:and harshly criticized
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740:Removed Peacock words
275:This sentence appears
120:Pharaoh of the Wizards
28:Periyar E. V. Ramasamy
1210:USS Wisconsin (BB-64)
1166:honors and awards..."
1058:Franklin D. Roosevelt
771:Self-Respect Movement
751:Removed Weasle words
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365:Have a look at this:
18:Knowledge:Peer review
1283:As you have stated,
1325:FYKI, this is what
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1559:My coffee shop
1558:
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1187:
1180:Yom Kippur War
1177:
1167:
1149:
1119:
1109:
1099:
1089:
1079:
1069:
1055:
1027:
1020:Daniel Webster
1004:
1003:
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1000:
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991:My coffee shop
990:
980:Mahatma Gandhi
970:
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968:
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827:My coffee shop
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719:My coffee shop
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618:Dravidian race
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327:My coffee shop
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185:
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113:
108:
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91:
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34:
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15:
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1820:
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1190:Dien Bien Phu
1188:
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1178:
1175:
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1097:
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1072:Ronald Reagan
1070:
1067:
1063:
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944:
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927:Indira Gandhi
925:
922:
918:
915:
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905:
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903:
902:
901:
900:
899:
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873:
869:
868:peacock terms
865:
864:
863:
862:
855:
851:
847:
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832:
829:
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666:
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658:
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631:
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628:Dravidan race
624:
621:
619:
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533:
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520:
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454:
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396:
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373:
372:
367:
364:
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342:
337:
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329:
324:
318:
313:
311:
306:
304:
300:
299:Justice Party
295:
292:
290:
289:V. V. S. Iyer
286:
282:
281:peacock terms
278:
273:
270:
267:
266:North Indians
263:
259:
254:
251:
248:
245:
242:
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233:
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194:
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87:
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58:
53:
49:
45:
40:
39:
33:
32:
29:
26:
19:
1639:
1635:
1631:
1501:
1497:
1493:
1488:
1485:common sense
1484:
1480:
1477:common sense
1476:
1383:
1355:
1354:
1288:
1284:
1257:
1247:
1237:
1233:
1232:- "...faced
1223:
1213:
1203:
1193:
1183:
1173:
1163:
1159:
1155:
1145:
1141:
1137:
1133:
1129:
1125:
1115:
1105:
1095:
1085:
1082:Adi Shankara
1075:
1068:ailments..."
1065:
1061:
1054:examples..."
1051:
1047:
1043:
1038:
1037:
1033:
1023:
930:
920:
910:
872:weasel words
791:
781:
766:
735:
652:
627:
625:
617:
615:
593:
572:
547:reactionary.
545:
439:K. Veeramani
393:
392:reactionary.
388:
369:
340:
316:
314:
309:
307:
296:
293:
274:
271:
255:
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133:
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117:
110:
109:
79:
75:
61:Article talk
60:
56:
37:
27:
1765:Ravichandar
1711:Ravichandar
1554:Ravichandar
1438:Ravichandar
1244:West Bengal
1170:Celine Dion
1108:famines..."
986:Ravichandar
878:Ravichandar
822:Ravichandar
714:Ravichandar
444:Ravichandar
322:Ravichandar
160:WP:MOSQUOTE
48:visual edit
1797:Categories
1250:rivers..."
1176:genres..."
746:WP:PEACOCK
258:Brahminism
1507:Wiki Raja
1293:Wiki Raja
935:Wiki Raja
933:splits".
846:Wiki Raja
795:Wiki Raja
657:Wiki Raja
371:The Hindu
345:Wiki Raja
319:is POV. -
317:bold text
199:<: -->
193:Ruhrfisch
96:automated
1494:numerous
1483:. Thus,
1258:numerous
1248:numerous
1238:numerous
1234:numerous
1224:numerous
1214:numerous
1204:numerous
1194:numerous
1184:numerous
1174:numerous
1164:numerous
1160:numerous
1156:numerous
1146:Numerous
1142:numerous
1138:numerous
1134:numerous
1130:numerous
1126:numerous
1116:numerous
1106:numerous
1096:numerous
1086:numerous
1076:numerous
1066:numerous
1062:numerous
1052:numerous
1048:numerous
1044:numerous
1039:numerous
1034:numerous
1024:numerous
931:numerous
921:Numerous
911:numerous
262:Brahmins
118:Thanks,
1636:Periyar
1092:Ganesha
1074:- "His
1026:means":
395:India."
232:Periyar
169:section
166:WP:HEAD
71:history
52:history
38:Article
1122:Mumbai
632:p. 507
622:p. 490
1329:says:
1112:Delhi
198:: -->
100:house
80:Watch
16:<
1511:talk
1502:many
1498:many
1487:and
1479:and
1297:talk
939:talk
850:talk
817:here
799:talk
786:here
775:here
760:here
753:here
742:here
661:talk
349:talk
285:Kasi
164:Per
124:talk
67:edit
44:edit
1638:or
919:- "
870:or
277:POV
228:EVR
151:or
1799::
1513:)
1299:)
941:)
852:)
801:)
663:)
620:".
351:)
312:"
230:,
214::
126:)
84:•
69:|
50:|
46:|
1509:(
1435:-
1295:(
937:(
848:(
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788:.
777:.
762:.
755:.
659:(
596::
347:(
202:°
122:(
76:·
73:)
65:(
57:·
54:)
42:(
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