882:, that acts as a summary of the lists (without reproducing the lists of ships). I hope to address some of your questions there (why the Germans built various types of cruisers at certain points, for example). This list does talk briefly about the use of the ships during WWII (primarily as commerce raiders). Oh, and no worries on rocking the boat - it seems we ship article writers rarely get opinions that help us think outside of the box :)
870:
different doctrines, etc. Another thing to consider is most
European countries stopped building heavy cruisers by the time Germany started, so comparing ships built 10 years apart is problematic (especially in a period of rapid technological change). In addition, reliable references rarely do such things; critiques of specific designs (see for instance Preston's
529:
The lead section is really a 'background' section and should probably be labeled as such. In particular, the first paragraph is full of relatively obscure background information which will probably confuse non-expert readers given that it doesn't introduce the topic of the article (which is a list of
836:
More a comment from me than a proposed fix: As a non-naval person reading an article like this, it strikes me that I want to know more about German naval doctrine with regard to its heavy cruisers. How were German designs unique? How were these ships used? Particularly given
Germany's large military
642:
I'm surprised that the term 'pocket battleships' doesn't appear anywhere in relation to the
Deutschland class. While this might not be the 'correct' term, it remains a very common one for these ships, and should be noted as an alternative - I imagine that some readers will be surprised to see ships
841:
article, but I wish some larger context about German ships with regard to other navies and wars were here to give a better sense of global perspective. I hate to rock the boat (I know the other lists have made it to FL with essentially this format) and this isn't a criticism, I just wanted to hear
827:
P class section: "A revised version reduced the number of ships to eight, and another revision removed them entirely before work began, replacing them with the three O class battlecruisers, which were also not built." - why were these ships canceled, and what about the O class was more favorable?
869:
As for your last point, there are a couple of issues. The main one is that there aren't really any books that discuss what you're looking for in any detail. Comparisons between different navies ships are usually highly problematic for a number of reasons, including different strategic outlooks,
263:
Quoting "Several innovations were incorporated into the design, including extensive use of welding and all-diesel propulsion, which saved weight and allowed for the heavier main armament and armor." When you say "all-diesel propulsion", is it clear to the
English speaking community that you are
807:
P class section: "They were an improved design over the preceding planned D class cruisers, which had been canceled in 1934." - how was this class an improvement? While I understand it was a paper design, it does seem rather vague as to how these ships were supposed to be different.
681:"Both ships ultimately returned to German waters by the end of the war, where they were both sunk by British bombers" - this sentence is a bit confusing: aside from using 'both' twice, the two ships had returned to German waters by the end of 1943, well before the end of the war
499:
Inconsistency about language indication: "HĂĽmmelchen, Gerhard (1976). Die
Deutschen Seeflieger 1935–1945." but yet "Prager, Hans Georg (2002) (in German). Panzerschiff Deutschland, Schwerer Kreuzer Lützow: ein Schiffs-Schicksal vor den Hintergründen seiner Zeit." ?
364:
I know that this is not your problem but I want to mention it anyhow. The conversion template does a funny line break. Example: "20,000 long tons (20,000 t)" introduces a line break between 20,000 and t, for tons. Looks very strange.
874:) usually focus on the class by itself, not in comparison to other ships. The other issue has more to do with my long-term plans for the topic; eventually, once the light and protected cruisers are done, I plan on replacing
541:
s without talking about
Versailles, which is essentially the reason the Germans built ships of this type. They were also particularly notable as the first major warships of all-welded construction and diesel propulsion.
537:) - I don't know what exactly you want me to change. Moving it into a background section would require a new lead; I don't know what would go in it apart from what's already there. You can't really talk about the
556:
The lead (and especially the first para) doesn't really introduce the topic of the article at the moment - a summary of the number of classes and ships built and proposed would be useful, for instance.
330:
Okay I am being picky here "The German
Kriegsmarine built or planned a series of heavy cruisers". How about "The German Reichsmarine and Kriegsmarine built or planned a series of heavy cruisers"
379:
I can't imagine why they coded the template without using a non-breaking space for the output. I'll raise the question over on the template talk page and see what can be done.
21:
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The biggest improvement was propulsion; the P design was significantly faster than the D design, despite a 25% increase in displacement on essentially the same size hull.
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force, the heavy cruisers seem somewhat under appreciated in favor of heaver ships and U-boats. Why? I understand most of this discussion should take place in the
855:
I've fixed the first two points, but I've got 70 or so finals to grade so it might be a day or two before I get to the others. Thanks for reviewing the article.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Oops, the dates in column "Laid down" need no breaking spaces too. In column "Fate" you may want to introduce them between day and month, where applicable.
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popularly called 'pocket battleships' in a list of 'heavy cruisers' with no explanation given for why the ships are classed as CAs in most modern works.
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The section headings of this list aren't consistent with other lists, and it's confusing to put the majority of the content under the "key" section.
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References follows the "Major publishing city" rule for locations, but strangely not for
Barnsley (Barnsley, UK?); similarly Windsor, England =: -->
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Another suggestion: how about creating a template for the "See also" section? A see also gives the impression that the article is not yet finished.
804:"The treaty limited large German warships to a displacement of 10,000 tons" - is there a suitable convert template for this unit of measurement?
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There is no plural s on
Reichsmark. It is 1 Reichsmark, 2 Reichsmark or a million Reichsmark. In English you also don't say 1 hair and 2 hairs.
662:
What 'Operation WeserĂĽbung' was should be noted in the text (eg, "Operation WeserĂĽbung, the German invasion of
Denmark and Norway" or similar)
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Better phrasing for Prinz Eugen would be scuttled, rather than expended. Lemme give it another read through before I make a final judgement.--
278:
It should be clear (I don't think diesel has ever been used in a naval turbine propulsion system), but just in case, I have added a link to
87:
Another list article, this one for the heavy cruisers built or planned by the German Navy in the 1930s-40s. This list is the capstone for
623:
The article should note that the 'Reichsmarine' and 'Kriegsmarine' were the German Navy for readers unfamiliar with these German words.
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Hardcoded it is. I'm on a different computer today, and all of them appear fine to me - are there any others that need to be hardcoded?
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91:, which is complete with the exception of the list, which will need to go to FLC. Thanks to all who take the time to review the list.
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Thanks for your thoughts. I look forward to seeing these articles as they improve, both as a reviewer and as a curious bystander. —
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Note: I had overlooked this on "List of ironclad warships of Germany". It is also 1 Gold Mark, 2 Gold Mark a million Gold Mark.
534:
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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referring to a diesel powered engine with cylinders and pistons? I mean a turbine could also be diesel fueled or not?
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I still don't think that the lead para is suitable. I'm happy for this to be counted as 'neutral' or similar.
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Added a line to explain the O-class ships were larger, faster, and more powerfully armed.
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Panzeschiffe is plural; you wouldn't say "plans for an improved heavy cruisers..."
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in brackets to the table. It may make it easier to the casual reader
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This is essentially how I've written all of the other lists (forex
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fixed one more myself, looks much better! Merci bien
526:This is pretty good, but I've got a few comments:
393:Seems as though they just discussed this issue
344:How many times did we talk about this with the
298:Maybe, I am only suggesting this, add the name
828:Just needs a sentence or two of explanation.
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348:class articles, and I still messed this up?
18:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history
227:Have another look please, I found one more
503:Should all be fixed now, thanks Fifelfoo.
411:looks like hard coding is the way to go
114:Spelling of Panzerschiffe in 2nd para
496:Windsor, UK, unless devolution occurs
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33:The following discussion is closed.
720:should note that she was re-named
213:Thanks MisterBee - fixed in both.
28:
922:The discussion above is closed.
64:List of heavy cruisers of Germany
755:My comments are now addressed.
535:List of battleships of Germany
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776:File:D class line drawing.JPG
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876:List of cruisers of Germany
716:The entry in the table for
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872:The World's Worst Warships
925:Please do not modify it.
479:Sources and citations ok
36:Please do not modify it.
684:How does it read now?
880:Cruisers of Germany
599:That works for me.
147:Good point, fixed.
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796:Comments
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482:Fifelfoo
179:contribs
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106:Support
50:Hawkeye7
47:promoted
45:Article
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734:Fixed.
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