182:
652:: I had no idea, but even if "wuss" came from "pussy", which according to Moonriddengirl is only speculative, I seriously doubt that would make "wuss" sexist. "Gee", if I remember correctly, came from "Jesus", but that doesn't make it an obscenity. Is anybody really going to be offended because "wuss" might have come from "pussy". How many people would even know that "wuss" might have come from "pussy", let alone be offended by it.
22:
81:
53:
145:
67:
486:. It's not about whether it is offensive, it's just the world has moved on and that kind of style is now only used ironically. The idea of Wikipedians imploring each other towards masculinity ("how dare you edit this article, there's a bear to go hunt" etc.) is utterly ridiculous. What next? Are we going to replace
475:, the packet informing me that they are "man crisps". Their website informs me of such important manly related topics as how to be a "bloke", play darts and assemble flat-pack furniture in order to impress "the girlfriend". It also invites me to take a multiple-choice test to determine how "manly" I am.
575:
think that an essay on "if you do this, you're a WUSS, HAH" is actually going to persuade people to act properly? We're an encyclopaedia, not a primary school. Hands up everyone who, when already in a bad mood (and most of the examples given are bad mood-inducing) has found their brow soothed, their
331:
I have no idea. Like I said, I'm not usually involved with this kind of thing, and I have no opinion on weather this should be a guideline. The reasons you gave were not the reasons it was rejected tough, it was rejected almost entirely because of the "be a man" wording. Aside the opposition to the
466:
Having just taken a glance at this, the idea of
Knowledge (XXG), a place of high-minded and effete scholarship, imploring people to conform to masculine gender stereotypes is most amusing to me. Seriously though, it's not so much about the sexism, it's that expressions that attempt to use gender
356:
Should it be re-proposed with "be a man" re-worded, and I'm not asking whether, in you're opinion, this should be a guideline, I'm asking weather this should be re-proposed. That it was proposed in the first place (back in 2006) strongly suggests that eaver it should be re-proposed now (unless
422:
Also calculate: at which point in the cycle of a refuse-to-back-down dispute do you anticipate this'll have any utility? Doubtless when calm, everyone and her mother would agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment. Do you really think it'll affect intransigent behaviour? Further, calculate the
296:
Are you saying that guideline proposals have changed sense 2006, and it wouldn't be a viable proposal now, in 2012, for reasons unrelated to the "Be a Man" wording? I'm not too familiar with how guideline proposals work, it's not usually what I'm involved with on
Knowledge
256:
wasn't given a fair shot because of the arguably sexist "Be a Man" wording. It never should have failed because of that, "Be a Man" should have just been re-worded to something that wasn't arguably sexist. (Two re-wording idea's from the
380:
725:
If you want to rework this again, I don't have a problem with that. I think I'd be a waste of time and effort to do that over the word wuss, but it's not my time and effort that would be wasted. Juneappal had an
467:
stereotypes to push an agenda (even a good one, like not being a tendentious arse) are pretty ineffective. If you look at advertising, the only explicit uses of this kind of masculinity are now ironic.
752:
acknowledges that "Implicitly or explicitly calling people dicks is a dick-move" and tells people "don't use this essay as a justification to do so." To me, it really seems like just a way to bypass
712:
It seems a little pointless to rework a document so that it will not be sexist by changing it to a term that is "probably a blend of wimp and pussy", but reworking this so that it not be sexist was
744:
Thanks, but it's not my fight. I only offered feedback on this failed proposal/essay because you asked. :) It's simply an eye-roll to me, much like "be a man" was. That said, I have to agree with
158:
482:-esque sarcasm from the previous few sentences, let me explain it: gender stereotype-based humour is a deliberate throwback to an earlier age, an age of comics in tuxedos telling reheated
832:
125:
782:
I hadn't thought of that. I guess I'll go ahead and rework this (using the "Be a Good Sport" wording) unless someone objects. Sooner or later, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
505:
I've already said "be a man" should be re-worded, because it's arguably sexist, and I've already re-worded it. Complaining about the "be a man" wording is beating a dead horse.
357:
something has changed between 2006 and now to make this a non-viable proposal), or it should have never been proposed in the first place, and shouldn't be re-proposed now.
842:
523:
I'm not sure "Don't be a wuss" makes it much better, given that the one of the widely publicized (but speculative, as with most slang) etymologies of "wuss" is
384:
399:
editors can change their minds...either because the
Knowledge (XXG) environment is different now or simply because six years is long enough to reconsider. :) (
371:
The two opinions (whether this should be a guideline; whether this should be re-proposed) seem intrinsically connected to me. Since this was drafted in 2006,
199:
195:
88:
765:
In
Cherokee, a language which does not have a 'p' sound, the English "pussy" (meaning cat) became "wesa"; so the etymology is not all that far-fetched. --
135:
407:
could be useful as a guideline. If so, feel free to polish it and re-propose. If not, I can't see the value of putting it out there just because it
284:
It isn't going to be a guideline. If you want to make it into an essay, reach for the appropriate template and make it so. Then you can move on. --
796:
No objection, although given that (as mentioned) there about a dozen essays comprised of precisely this, it does seem rather a waste of time.
269:) I don't have an opinion as for weather this should be a guideline, but if this fails again, then in my opinion this should become an essay.
837:
635:
Copied over due to request to take it to the talk page of the essay. :) On reflection, it's good to have it here for easy retrieval later.
235:
97:
787:
735:
675:
657:
557:
510:
457:
362:
302:
274:
638:
Primary ongoing issue, I suppose, is whether or not "wuss" is really that much better than "be a man" in terms of denigrating women. --
315:, but lacks its insight. I see no demand for the guideline, little utility, and no likelihood of support for it. Look at the other
392:
58:
33:
783:
731:
671:
653:
553:
506:
453:
358:
298:
270:
332:
proposal based on the wording, almost all of the comments on the talk page are in favor of the proposal. My concern is that
248:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
631:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
66:
576:
existential crisis resolved and their confidence resolved by having someone come up and insult them? I mean, seriously.
101:
592:
Your proposal didn't achieve consensus to become a guideline? Would it be terribly inappropriate to suggest that you
490:
with a reference to the "Bro Code"? Stop it
Knowledge (XXG), your pretensions of hyper-masculinity are embarrassing. —
395:
did not exist when this was created. More importantly, the makeup of editors is very different, and even if it were
388:
154:
690:
know. I didn't have to look it up. Unless I'm rather more remarkable than I imagine, I'm sure I'm not alone. See
208:
601:
39:
642:
499:
461:
278:
316:
468:
376:
431:
375:
things have changed, including a proliferation of essays that say more or less the same things, such as
323:
288:
570:
Well, as long as we're only insulting the submissive, I guess there's no problem here </sarcasm: -->
487:
253:
224:
262:
772:
495:
531:
sexist, but if I were working on this and trying to avoid sexism I might go for a different term. --
471:
famously advertises itself as "not for girls". I saw a small girl on the train the other day eating
801:
757:
717:
639:
615:
597:
581:
532:
483:
412:
93:
214:
753:
452:
It looks like this isn't going to be re-proposed, so I've went ahead and made it into an essay.
749:
312:
727:
479:
472:
428:
320:
285:
210:
181:
400:
212:
766:
491:
96:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
334:
it never should have been rejected for the wording because "be a man" is easily re-worded
805:
791:
777:
760:
739:
720:
679:
661:
619:
605:
585:
561:
535:
514:
434:
415:
366:
326:
306:
291:
797:
745:
611:
577:
266:
826:
703:
Etymology 1982, from earlier wussy (circa 1960), probably a blend of wimp and pussy.
748:
about the value of insulting people in an effort to calm them down. :) At least
144:
80:
52:
524:
691:
381:
Knowledge (XXG):Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass
319:
we have. Can you really see even a renamed "Be a Man" in that company? --
610:
ToaT, I would suggest discretion is the better part of valour here :).
670:
In that link "wuss" is listed under synonyms, not etymologies.
92:, a collaborative effort to organise and monitor the impact of
215:
175:
15:
143:
403:, and all.) I think it comes down to whether you think the
730:
for "Be a Good Sport", I wouldn't object to that wording.
258:
650:"I'm not sure "Don't be a wuss" makes it much better"
385:
Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) is not about winning
833:
Low-impact WikiProject
Knowledge (XXG) essays pages
423:probability of misuse, of the "this guideline says
701:
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
8:
161:on pageviews, watchers, and incoming links.
47:
843:WikiProject Knowledge (XXG) essays pages
236:Knowledge (XXG):Village pump (proposals)
116:WikiProject Knowledge (XXG) essays pages
391:. (There are tons.) Even the guideline
49:
7:
550:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Don't be a wuss
478:If you can't infer the existence of
244:The following discussion is closed.
21:
19:
38:It is of interest to the following
527:. :/ I guess at least it's not as
393:Knowledge (XXG):Disruptive editing
234:This conversation was copied from
223:
110:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Essays
100:. For a listing of essays see the
89:WikiProject Knowledge (XXG) essays
14:
86:This page is within the scope of
627:The discussion above is closed.
180:
79:
65:
51:
20:
838:NA-Class Knowledge (XXG) essays
806:22:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
792:21:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
778:14:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
761:13:26, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
740:13:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
721:12:42, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
680:12:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
662:12:35, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
643:12:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
620:14:15, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
606:14:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
586:14:08, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
562:12:06, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
536:14:02, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
515:09:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
500:09:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
462:07:18, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
435:15:45, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
416:15:23, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
367:00:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
353:My question is what to do now.
327:23:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
307:22:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
292:22:42, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
279:22:33, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
1:
389:Knowledge (XXG):The Last Word
311:It duplicates the message of
756:and call somebody a wuss. --
130:This page has been rated as
427:have to back down" sort. --
265:, and "Be a Good Sport" by
113:Template:WikiProject Essays
859:
784:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
732:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
672:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
654:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
554:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
507:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
454:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
377:Knowledge (XXG):Let it go
359:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
299:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
271:Emmette Hernandez Coleman
261:are "Don't be a wuss" by
227:wasn't given a fair shot.
151:
129:
74:
46:
629:Please do not modify it.
488:Knowledge (XXG):Civility
254:Knowledge (XXG):Be a man
246:Please do not modify it.
225:Knowledge (XXG):Be a man
705:
469:Yorkie (chocolate bar)
155:automatically assessed
148:
136:project's impact scale
94:Knowledge (XXG) essays
317:behavioral guidelines
238:. Attribution inline.
153:The above rating was
147:
750:Meta:Don't be a dick
548:Let's take this to
484:mother-in-law jokes
716:idea, not mine. --
596:and quit whining?
247:
149:
34:content assessment
245:
221:
220:
174:
173:
170:
169:
166:
165:
162:
850:
775:
769:
480:Kenneth Williams
216:
184:
176:
152:
118:
117:
114:
111:
108:
83:
76:
75:
70:
69:
68:
63:
55:
48:
25:
24:
23:
16:
858:
857:
853:
852:
851:
849:
848:
847:
823:
822:
773:
767:
692:wiktionary:Wuss
633:
632:
473:McCoy's (crisp)
411:be polished. --
250:
241:
240:
239:
229:
217:
211:
189:
115:
112:
109:
106:
105:
102:essay directory
64:
61:
12:
11:
5:
856:
854:
846:
845:
840:
835:
825:
824:
821:
820:
819:
818:
817:
816:
815:
814:
813:
812:
811:
810:
809:
808:
763:
758:Moonriddengirl
746:User:Ironholds
718:Moonriddengirl
700:
699:
698:
697:
696:
695:
665:
664:
640:Moonriddengirl
626:
625:
624:
623:
622:
598:TenOfAllTrades
589:
588:
571:. Does anyone
568:
567:
566:
565:
564:
541:
540:
539:
538:
533:Moonriddengirl
518:
517:
450:
449:
448:
447:
446:
445:
444:
443:
442:
441:
440:
439:
438:
437:
413:Moonriddengirl
354:
344:
343:
342:
341:
340:
339:
338:
337:
251:
242:
233:
232:
231:
230:
228:
222:
219:
218:
213:
209:
207:
204:
203:
191:
190:
185:
179:
172:
171:
168:
167:
164:
163:
150:
140:
139:
128:
122:
121:
119:
84:
72:
71:
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
855:
844:
841:
839:
836:
834:
831:
830:
828:
807:
803:
799:
795:
794:
793:
789:
785:
781:
780:
779:
776:
770:
764:
762:
759:
755:
751:
747:
743:
742:
741:
737:
733:
729:
724:
723:
722:
719:
715:
711:
710:
709:
708:
707:
706:
704:
693:
689:
686:
683:
682:
681:
677:
673:
669:
668:
667:
666:
663:
659:
655:
651:
647:
646:
645:
644:
641:
636:
630:
621:
617:
613:
609:
608:
607:
603:
599:
595:
591:
590:
587:
583:
579:
574:
569:
563:
559:
555:
551:
547:
546:
545:
544:
543:
542:
537:
534:
530:
526:
525:pretty sexist
522:
521:
520:
519:
516:
512:
508:
504:
503:
502:
501:
497:
493:
489:
485:
481:
476:
474:
470:
464:
463:
459:
455:
436:
433:
430:
426:
421:
420:
419:
418:
417:
414:
410:
406:
402:
398:
394:
390:
386:
382:
378:
374:
370:
369:
368:
364:
360:
355:
352:
351:
350:
349:
348:
347:
346:
345:
335:
330:
329:
328:
325:
322:
318:
314:
310:
309:
308:
304:
300:
295:
294:
293:
290:
287:
283:
282:
281:
280:
276:
272:
268:
264:
260:
255:
249:
237:
226:
206:
205:
202:
201:
197:
193:
192:
188:
183:
178:
177:
160:
156:
146:
142:
141:
137:
133:
127:
124:
123:
120:
103:
99:
95:
91:
90:
85:
82:
78:
77:
73:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
31:
27:
18:
17:
713:
702:
687:
684:
649:
637:
634:
628:
593:
572:
549:
528:
477:
465:
451:
424:
408:
404:
396:
372:
333:
252:
243:
194:
186:
131:
87:
40:WikiProjects
30:project page
29:
768:Orange Mike
429:Tagishsimon
321:Tagishsimon
286:Tagishsimon
263:Hooperbloob
827:Categories
529:explicitly
492:Tom Morris
132:Low-impact
98:discussion
62:Low‑impact
798:Ironholds
612:Ironholds
578:Ironholds
267:Juneappal
259:talk page
594:be a man
187:Archives
405:content
313:WP:Dick
134:on the
754:policy
573:really
432:(talk)
401:WP:CCC
387:, and
324:(talk)
297:(XXG).
289:(talk)
157:using
107:Essays
59:Essays
36:scale.
685:blink
28:This
802:talk
788:talk
774:Talk
736:talk
728:idea
714:your
676:talk
658:talk
616:talk
602:talk
582:talk
558:talk
511:talk
496:talk
458:talk
373:many
363:talk
303:talk
275:talk
159:data
648:Re
425:you
409:can
397:not
126:Low
829::
804:)
790:)
771:|
738:)
678:)
660:)
618:)
604:)
584:)
560:)
552:.
513:)
498:)
460:)
383:,
379:,
365:)
305:)
277:)
198:,
800:(
786:(
734:(
694:.
688:I
674:(
656:(
614:(
600:(
580:(
556:(
509:(
494:(
456:(
361:(
336:.
301:(
273:(
200:2
196:1
138:.
104:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
