1004:: "All three are progressive, anti-imperialist activists, which not only makes the charges against them particularly absurd, but also may also explain why the Obama administration has done so little to free them."; "Shane, Sarah, and Josh were graduates of the University of California at Berkeley and were well-known in the antiwar movement in the Bay Area. Josh ... was a leader in the movement to get military recruiters off campus"; "Shane was working as a freelance journalist in various countries in the Middle East, exposing a number of aspects of U.S. policy in the region that Washington would rather keep quiet. Along with his friend Dahr Jamail, he was one of the few independent journalists in Baghdad. His 2009 article Iraq's New Death Squad in The Nation magazine revealed how Iraq Special Operations Forces (ISOF), the largest foreign Special Forces outfit ever developed by the United States, was engaged in widespread human rights abuses. An article he wrote for Mother Jones last year revealed how the U.S. government, in an effort to bring temporary stability in Iraq, had funneled billions of dollars to what he referred to as “the country's next generation of strongmen.” At the time of his arrest, Shane was finishing a major investigative article on the illegal use by Israeli occupation forces of "non-lethal" weapons, such as the "long-range teargas canister" (which essentially acts as a missile), against nonviolent protesters."; "Before leaving the United States, Sarah was living in Oakland, where she was an organizer in support of immigrant rights, including the historic May Day marches of 2006. She also facilitated groups to the U.S.-Mexican border to challenge the Minutemen and other nativist vigilantes. Prior to moving to the Middle East, Sarah spent time in the Mexican state of Chiapas doing solidarity work with the Zapatistas. Her blogs on the ongoing repression by both the Mexican and Israeli governments were well-received by human rights activists."; "While in Oakland, both Sarah and Shane ... were actively involved with Direct Action to Stop the War in organizing nonviolent action campaigns against the U.S. occupation of Iraq."; "On moving to Syria, Sarah and Shane chose to live in a Palestinian refugee camp and engage in Palestine solidarity work. When Israeli occupation forces shot their friend Tristan Anderson in the head during a nonviolent protest in the West Bank, they went to visit him in an Israeli hospital just three weeks before their kidnapping."; "Perhaps as a testament to his own youthful idealism as a community organizer, President Barack Obama acknowledged their activism in a statement calling for their release, saying, “They are simply open-minded and adventurous young people who represent the best of America, and of the human spirit. They are teachers, artists, and advocates for social and environmental justice.”"
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themselves) is relevant. And you have got to admit that the cover stories put out about why Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl are simply not plausible. But don't paint me as anti-Jewish - I know that this Sarah Shourd person helped - no, was COMMITTED - to helping
Palestinians (well, some would say she was a plant, an spy, but I have no idea - but the idea should be discussed) - and I know that the Palestinians are Semites themselves, i.e. they are basically Jews (WERE Jews before the advent of Islam in 600 A.D.) - so please don't paint me as an anti-Semite (which I think you are trying to do) - I think the issue(s) are complex (VERY complex), and they should be discussed somewhere, and Knowledge (XXG) sounds to me as good a place as any. By the way, if you want to my personal opinion/motivation(s) - I am neither Jew nor Muslim - and I actually don't care who wins the conflict - I couldn't care less who ends up with Jerusalem - my main point of objection is the cost in both financial terms and human lives that it is costing the rest of the Earth/the rest of humanity. If I had my way, we would just build a wall around that whole part of the world and let them fight it out - so please don't try to paint me as being anti-Semitic.
1178:"try to drum up business" and - lo' and behold - he gets killed. Please. Now these people were "tourist hiking" and strayed over the border into Iran. Hilarious. But the thing is, the American public doesn't get the picture when they hear these things. I remember there was another case, that Daniel Pearl guy who worked for The Wall Street Journal and supposedly was in Pakistan of all places to interview a top al-Queda operative and ask him "Why do you hate us???" It was an obvious cover-story, a lie. I figure that guy was on a spy mission to locate the al-Queda operative and then report his whereabouts. These cover stories just aren't believeable. You just gotta wonder where they get them from. Oh, by the way, I myself am planning on taking a vacation in Afghanistan/Pakistan this year - I hear that the Kyber Pass is beautiful. LOL.
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with regards to religion. Heck, Nazi
Germany didn't kill 6 millino Jews - they simply killed 6 million anonymous people along with tens of millions of others. Look, I know you don't like it, but the plain fact is, any article which wants to be objective about any incident in the current Middle East conflict has got to mention the religious backgrounds of the people involved. And the backgrounds of the reporters, by the way (and who owns or controls the news media/outlets - the mis-reporting and LACK of reporting on this issue alone has cost the Jewish people a HUGE amount of support around the world - I say it would be better if everything was out front).
611:'Sandy Close , executive director of the Pacific News Service, said that she had employed Mr Bauer, who specialises in the Middle East, to cover the elections of the autonomous Kurdish government in northern Iraq. She said he had not intended to travel to neighbouring Iran. Mr Bauer told Ms Close in an e-mail that he wanted to “feel out the situation" in Kurdistan and get some ideas for stories. “Kurdistan is the big story in Iraq now,” Mr Bauer wrote in the e-mail provided to the Associated Press. “I'm off to Kurdistan.” '
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program? Did someone ever refer to any of these three as "anti-war, social justice and
Palestinian solidarity activists." The girl's mom says she was teaching english and was a woman's activist. You state that "Any research ... will show ..." your conclusion. I think a person putting such comments into an article should add the reference, rather than suggesting that those reading the Knowledge (XXG) article need to do it on their own. ---
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seeking to improve the factuality of the article. So you've got me wrong by suggesting I want to prevent discussion. The reason I suggest it should be removed here is because this is not suppoed to be a general discussion page, and the above is full of baseless conjecture. You'll notice the religion of these people is being based upon such attributes as "their names and looks says it all" - that seems eniterly divorced from reality.
1575:– Made a sloppy mistake changing name to "2009–2011 detention of American hikers by Iran to 2009–2011". Want to remove the second "2009-2011". Want to include the word "hiker" because (as explained in my edit summary) almost every article in the media calls them "hikers" so the idea they might be "American spies" just never caught on. Anyway, the regime never offered anything by way of evidence they were anything but hikers.
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come they aren’t willing to publicly defy the child-prostitution industries in
Cambodia, Thailand, India and elsewhere? How come they ain’t publicly chaining themselves to the palace walls of the corrupt fascistic and repressive dictators in Africa, South East Asia, the Middle East and South America? How come one never hears about their efforts to reform the Taliban from their outrageous practices and attitudes?
916:"Sarah Shourd and Shane Bauer are two of the bravest voices for justice in the Middle East that I met during my time in Syria. Strong critics of the US-led brutal war on Iraq and Israel´s ongoing violence against the Palestinian people, Sarah and Shane worked tirelessly in solidarity with the struggle for freedom, dignity, and self-determination for all people in the Middle East." - Anna Baltzer at
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1454:", at least put it in quotes. Otherwise, please link to an article describing the terms of "bail-for-freedom". "Traditionally, bail is some form of property deposited or pledged to a court to persuade it to release a suspect from jail, on the understanding that the suspect will return for trial or forfeit the bail (and possibly be brought up on charges of the crime of failure to appear)."
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944:"During February 2009, I worked with Shane Bauer in Baghdad...Shane is one of very few independent journalists who was working in Iraq. He opposed the US occupation of Iraq and was intent on using his pen to show the effects of the occupation to the world, in hopes of helping the Iraqi people." - Dahr Jamail at
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What are the religions of these people? Mention is made that the Joshua guy was confused a Jewish guy in New York. Are any of them Jewish? How about this Sarah person. Thanks in advance to anybody that knows (by the way, I personally find it a little hard to believe that these people were tourist
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They are, when all is said and done, hugely hamming it up with the benefit of a government paid-for safety net. And the only price they have to pay is to live, for a little while, like a poverty-stricken third world peasant. The miserable difference is that, for true poverty-stricken peasantry, there
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If memory serves in the latter part of last century it was considered quite a trekkers coup for a female to hike, unescorted, through Iran en route to India, Nepal etc and probably still is. There was too a heavily disguised female who rubbed the oversensitive nose of the
Iranian authorities in this
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I was flabbergasted when I read that he was Jewish and that he was in Iraq to "try to drum up business for his antenna installation business". I knew that couldn't be true - I mean, a Jew doesn't go into a war zone in an Muslim country - that would be like a Jew going to Nazi
Germany during WWII to
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Personally I agree with what I see written around the web about them not being religions people because their _actions_ speak to that - they seem, to my reading, to be aetheists. However I am guided by my principle that I would not stand in the way of discussion about their religion here if it were
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I am tempted to say, "You don't get the point", but I think you DO get the point . . . . . and just don't want it discussed in this
Knowledge (XXG) article. Leaving out the religious faiths of people involved in the current Middle East dispute is tantamount to having history books about WWII wiped
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But how come I never hear of like individuals taking a personal stand against child-pornography, of announcing their arrival in places such as Kiev, in the
Ukraine , with the loudly proclaimed intention of exposing the pimps and the political leaders of these anti-social practices to the world? How
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The truth of the matter lies somewhere in-between and will only become public once their various travelogues are in the public domain. But the smart money is on provocative/cheap thrill-seeking with the intention to publish a goggle- eyed "I wuz there" eventually and to use that as leverage for the
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I find it strange that this information, as well as the well-known Iranan policy re unattached females, is not referred to in this wiki-article as background information. It is, after all, not a secret and is, I think, a transit visa condition for Iran as well as less progressive Muslim countries
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What exactly are they grandstanding and "hamming it up" about? What "government paid-for safety net" are you talking about? What could possibly come out of, "Oops, I accidentally walked illegally into Iran!" besides them being seen as not-the-sharpest-tool-in-the-shed? Living in poverty is quite a
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I listened. Although I think interpreting the interview as support for the comments you added is a big stretch, there may be some reference for your conclusion. Did you do "original research" in order to expand the discussion about the hikers which appears between 10:18 and 20:06 in that 45 min.
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Well, it depends. First of all, this is a
Discussion page. Secondly, it depends on whether it is relevant. This incident occurred in a part of the world where there is a huge religious conflict currently on-going, so the religions of anybody that gets reported in the news (and the reporters
779:"Did someone ever refer to any of these three as "anti-war, social justice and Palestinian solidarity activists." In the Nora Shourd interview at 11:15 she says "they were doing activism". To label these people as merely 'hikers' seems disingenuous. Here are various quotes supporting the above:
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I have deleted all references to them being hikers except for the title and deleted two external references that failed our standards. I will try to get around to doing something with this article over the next few days but I am snowed with more important projects. Please keep in mind that
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These are the fashionable naughty boys, the politically ostracized nations and activities of our era and it is certainly not very dangerous to “defy” and to “take a stand” for their unacceptable social/environmental practices, ‘specially when you don’t even share the same continent.
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No real personal danger but very thrilling to the like-minded audience who doesn’t have access to trust-fund support, albeit second or third hand or the inclination to abandon their personal comfort zones. To some circles these “social activists” are the epitome of “role models”.
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deal different than being in a political prison. This area of wikipedia discussion is not for you to vent at us and display your pointless ranting. You also might want to try living in poverty like 15% of
America does before you go around talking about "third world peasants".
1078:
I can only, with all this information, sadly conclude that these persons such as Sarah Shourd (31), Shane Bauer (27) and Joshua Fattal (27) are simply grandstanding, seeking cheap publicity, truly insincere in their efforts to truly expose serious social injustices.
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I've only gotten these quotes from the one web site because that seems to have enough info to answer your question, and the sources used at that site seem disparate and credible enough. But if the article itself needs further references then I'll look for them|.
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To brave the lions den, to make a clandestine, un-authorised entry into any of those countries or to “defy” a great lumbering factory ship while sitting in an outboard rubber dingy definitely is publishing and talk show material. One appears soooo very brave!
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With all the places in the world practicing “social injustice” the most benign to blow “raspberries” at or to give a “Bronx cheer” to would currently be either Iran, Myanmar or North Korea. Or, if you like, become a militant anti-whaling campaigner.
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It is somewhat disingenuous to describe these people as 'tourists' and/or 'hikers' in the article. The facts are that Shane Bauer was employed as a journalist to cover elections in Kurdistan; that is the primary reason he was there:
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888:"Sarah, Shane and Josh are doing what our daughter Rachel did before she was killed - standing up against injustice and for the freedom of the people of the Middle East." - Statement from Cindy and Craig Corrie at
832:"They have always taken a stand for justice in the Middle East. They have organised against the Iraq war, lived and worked with Palestinian and Iraqi refugees and campaigned against the Israeli occupation." -
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804:"We are pro-Palestinian and against the Israeli occupation. Sarah and I met while organizing demonstrations against the Iraq war. We have protested AIPAC. We oppose aggressive US policies against Iran." -
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Any research on the web into what these people spent their lives doing will show them involved in various forms of activism, so if it's a better reference you're after then I'm sure we could find that.
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ending in -stan. As to the real reasons why this bunch found themselves trespassing, in these days of hand-held GPS devices etc is known only to themselves and the aforementioned Iranian authorities.
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More neutral, plus it's not even known if they actually crossed into Iran (it wouldn't be the first time a country went into another country to kidnap people and Iran has snuck into Iraq before).
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referring to the three as "hikers" may itself be POV, it is far from clear as to whether the border crossing was intentional, and if so, for what purpose. Thanks for everyone's help.--
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And the personal kudos, the publicity rewards, the Warhollian 15 minutes within one’s own circle, are potentially enormous and, of course, to the confirmed egoist, priceless.
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The link you provide to bbc.co.uk does not support a statement that they were "social justice activists. Am I looking in the wrong place? --
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They were social justice activists, who had been living in Damascus, holidaying in Iraqi Kurdistan. See
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Did you listen to the interview with 'Nora Shourd, mother of hiker imprisoned in Iran' at that page?
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is no forgone eventual release and nor a raft of publishers madly waving their cheque books!
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754:"Did you do "original research"" - no, though I may not have referenced satisfactorily.
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129809380&ft=1&f=
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These show-offs, in actual fact, deserve no applause but only our opprobrium!
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http://seattletimes.com/html/entertainment/2014889162_apusiranushikers.html
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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You know, I wondered about that. It reminds me of that Nick Berg guy:
649:. Little grape, do you have references to back up what you say, please?
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hiking so close to the Iranian border, but that's a personal opinion)
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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In every case they are jewish, their names and looks says it all. --
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I wonder if they were going to Iran to cover the green revolution?
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100518/ap_on_re_us/us_iran_us_hikers
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the new title as nominated. Get's the POV out of the title.
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http://www.eurasiareview.com/201008157049/hikers-in-iran.html
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http://news.aol.com/article/missing-americans-in-iran/599557
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2009–2011 detention of American hikers by Iran to 2009–2011
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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1:
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507:and see a list of open tasks.
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2121:Low-importance Iran articles
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1345:definitely a better title.
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1227:—Preceding
1198:—Preceding
1157:93.82.5.210
1135:—Preceding
1091:—Preceding
1042:Semperlibre
976:—Preceding
695:—Preceding
280:discussions
259:Iran portal
148:free images
31:not a forum
2110:Categories
2097:Report bug
1577:BoogaLouie
1550:Page moved
1513:BoogaLouie
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1403:Courcelles
1296:page moved
284:open tasks
2080:this tool
2073:this tool
1980:dead link
1918:this tool
1911:this tool
1801:this tool
1794:this tool
1688:this tool
1681:this tool
1511:OOPS!! --
1246:Lopifalko
1219:Lopifalko
1183:Lopifalko
1006:Lopifalko
982:Lopifalko
701:Lopifalko
679:Lopifalko
651:Lopifalko
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2086:Cheers.—
1924:Cheers.—
1845:cbignore
1807:Cheers.—
1732:cbignore
1694:Cheers.—
1627:cbignore
1497:it. --
1495:reverted
1446:What is
1200:unsigned
1137:unsigned
1093:unsigned
990:contribs
978:unsigned
722:Komowkwa
709:contribs
697:unsigned
665:Komowkwa
585:unsigned
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2013:checked
1984:tag to
1956:my edit
1934::Online
1874:checked
1839:my edit
1817::Online
1757:checked
1726:my edit
1704::Online
1656:checked
1621:my edit
1399:Support
1376:Support
1359:Support
1343:Support
1229:undated
629:Wehwalt
556:Archive
537:on the
448:on the
316:on the
199:C-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2021:failed
1976:Added
1882:failed
1853:nobots
1765:failed
1740:nobots
1635:nobots
1554:Ucucha
414:Alerts
205:scale.
126:Google
1388:Spyke
1272:Title
1000:From
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2017:true
1878:true
1761:true
1660:true
1581:talk
1558:talk
1517:talk
1503:talk
1491:here
1475:talk
1460:talk
1407:talk
1367:talk
1332:Grsz
1250:talk
1223:talk
1208:talk
1187:talk
1161:talk
1145:talk
1118:talk
1101:talk
1046:talk
1010:talk
986:talk
726:talk
705:talk
683:talk
669:talk
655:talk
633:talk
617:talk
593:talk
566:talk
289:Iran
272:Iran
228:Iran
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2054:RfC
2031:).
2019:or
2004:to
1994:to
1970:to
1892:).
1880:or
1865:to
1775:).
1763:or
1647:to
1595:.
1422:.
1225:)
529:Low
440:Low
308:Low
176:TWL
2112::
2067:.
2062:}}
2058:{{
2029:}}
2025:{{
1982:}}
1978:{{
1890:}}
1886:{{
1851:{{
1847:}}
1843:{{
1773:}}
1769:{{
1738:{{
1734:}}
1730:{{
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1625:{{
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1537:.
1519:)
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1477:)
1462:)
1409:)
1383:TJ
1369:)
1328:.
1316:→
1298:.
1283:.
1252:)
1210:)
1189:)
1163:)
1147:)
1120:)
1103:)
1048:)
1012:)
992:)
988:•
728:)
711:)
707:•
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671:)
657:)
635:)
619:)
595:)
568:)
156:)
54:;
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2095:(
2082:.
2075:.
1920:.
1913:.
1901:Y
1803:.
1796:.
1784:Y
1690:.
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1579:(
1556:(
1515:(
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1365:(
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541:.
452:.
320:.
286:.
211::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
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