Talk:Carina Nebula

200: 1539:) mistakenly give the Keyhole the identifier NGC 3324. Our article repeats this, using APOD as a reference. But the catalogue uses the number 3324 for an emission/reflection nebula to the NW of the main Carina Nebula (roughly at epoch 2000.0 coords 10h 37m 20s, −58d 38m), as reflected by Simbad, the NGC Project website, and the Night Sky Observer's Guide (Kepple et al.). So far as I know, the Keyhole itself does not have its own NGC number. Is there another identifier for it? 332: 2507: 260: 233: 1618: 191: 270: 1396:

the objects history. It is clear their is bias here, because the article never has little written about the history or the discovery of this nebula. "Reasonable English" has nothing to do with the name of the Eta Carinae Nebula, whose supposition is only based on the the name "Orion Nebula", hence, this must apply to the dubious "Carina Nebula."

1324:" This pattern is repeated in the half-a-dozen other AAO images linked; and (I suggest) represents the most up-to-date usage, referring to the object as a whole as the "Carina Nebula" or "Great Carina Nebula", and reserving the term "Eta Carina Nebula" to the nebulosity around, and directly related to, the star itself. 471:

observers know it as the Eta Carina Nebulae, and it distinguishes it from several other known Carina Nebulae. Whoever requested this move, should be censured because it is not known as this by southern observers. (Note: There are moves afoot to eliminate this naming debacles, like this one, via the IAU.)

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In older usage (see Burnham, e.g.,) the name "Keyhole Nebula" applies to all of NGC 3372 -- i.e., this is "the nebula that contains the Keyhole". Most modern sources I've seen use "Keyhole Nebula" just for the Keyhole itself. We probably ought to point out this divergence of names in the section on

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Why argue with this person, when the entire article argues just one point of view? My question is why it is originally called the "Eta Argus Nebula", when at the time is was observed and orginally catalogue it was a bright star surrounded by nebulosity. All that was observed was a bright reddish star

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While it's amusing that you consider NED and Simbad gods of naming conventions (heck, why not?), I don't get those same results. A search for the "Eta Carinae Nebula" or the "Eta Carina Nebula" turns up nothing. Of course, under NGC 3772, the names listed include Eta Car Nebula, but not Eta Carinae

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My criticism of what you added was not that I am disputing the validity of your name for the Nebula (though I dispute the primacy of it) I questioned what you added for its tone (being Pointy, POV and having undue weight for the intrioduction) and suggested a naming section as an alternative. I also

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To quote Webb's "Great Diffused branching milky way nebula with interior darkness about η Argus", showing eta was essential to the nebula." or T.J.J.J. See's "Micrometrical measures of double stars in the great nebulae and cluster around &eta Carinae.." (1897), shows the importance of the nebula

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Since the nebula is about 7500 ly away, the explosion must have occurred over 7500 years ago; but it was observed on Earth in 1841, so the initial light from the explosion reached us only 176 years ago. Thus from the explosion to the state we see it in now is only a span of 176 years, limiting the

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Agreed that Eta Car is certainly a huge mess currently as well. Unfortunately, it seems that the actually important astronomical object articles here don't get any attention compared to those unimportant minor planet and exoplanet articles, and I'm already swamped on-wiki. I'll try to get around to

1395:

Thank you for showing your bias, as it is precisely my point. The name of the Eta Carina Nebula is based on precedence, not some airy fairy idea of modernity. If you knew anything about astronomy, you would realise that names are often highly dubious, whose order is often based or the discoverer or

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No one is arguing whether eta Car is an important feature of the nebula: it is so, and has always been so. We are trying to find what the nebula is commonly called today. The list above is not an argument, but a listing of examples in an attempt to adumbrate which names are in common use. I did

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I agree that diameter would typically imply a spherical object which could cause some confusion here. Perhaps some clarification is needed on where how this diameter was determined and what it refers to (e.g. largest, smallest, or average diameter). Also, a citation should be added for this value.

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There is absolutely no evidence it is just called the "Carina Nebula". As I said, when the star was 1st magnitude, it was hard to see the nebula, and the name Eta Carina Nebula was adopted. I.e. The nebula around the star.Thousands of southern observers called it the Eta Carina Nebula, and I have

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I agree with you, Keflavitch. This is more commonly known as the Carina nebula; I was very surprised at the redirect. The title Eta Carinae Nebula would be more suited to the ejections of the star Eta Carinae itself, aka the Homonculus. The most obvious reason for this is that the Carina nebula is

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and named by him "King George's Star", yet universally known now as Uranus (and of which the pronunciation has changed radically over the past thirty years). As for this object, "Eta Carina Nebula" is as familiar to me as it seems to be to you, but I am at least open to the possibility that it is

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If you examine SIMBAD, you will find that BOTH names are listed, and if you understood the history, "Eta Carina Nebula" come before the name "Carina Nebula." As an visual observer since 1973, I have always known this as the "Eta Carina Nebula", and most in the southern hemisphere know it as such.

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Carina Nebula is not just the more accurate name, it's the most common name. A Google image search for "Carina Nebula" brings photographs of this larger nebula, and a search for "Eta Carinae" brings up images of the star itself and the homunculus. For these reasons I am submitting this article to

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You statement, "but what it is commonly called now", is clearly opinion than based on fact. Naming of astronomical objects is fraught will people trying to make a name for themselves, or imposing their will over historical precedence. Foolishness to claim otherwise shows either naivety or bias;

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Either could reasonably serve as the title of the article, but that is not the subject of this discussion. If you want to request a move, we can have that discussion (again). Be aware, though, that historical priority is not the only criterion that will apply, as the older discussion above (to

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Under the title "Eta Carina Nebula" pg.1123, saying; "A bright, diffuse nebula, NGC 3373, surrounding the star η Carinae. About 2 deg. across and divided by a dark, V-shaped, obscuring dust-lane, it contains a number of interesting stars and star clusters, and also two major included nebulae—the

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Keflavich is 110% correct, and the other statements here are silly and irrelevant. It is called the Eta Carinae Nebula, because when it was observed in the 18th Century, the star of Eta Carinae predominated the nebula because of its brightness, in fact, making the nebulae difficult to see. Most

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Knowledge is supposed to be "on good faith", but your response here is that you have no intention of doing so. So you want consensus via unveiled threats, well all it shows is you've already lost the argument. I will not back down on this imperialistic attitude. Facts speak stronger than mere

1279:"Why argue with this person, when the entire article argues just one point of view?" Mate, the POV you want to detect in the article is not mine: my sole contribution to this article was a reference to the Caldwell catalogue -- a minor point and not the principal one of this discussion. 2445:

I've reworded the paragraph I think you're having trouble with. Hopefully it is clearer and addresses any confusion. The largest distance of the outer shell of the bipolar nebula from the central object is 22,000 AU, about a tenth of a parsec. I think I'll add that too, good information.

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Maíz Apellániz, J.; Sota, A.; Arias, J. I.; Barbá, R. H.; Walborn, N. R.; Simón-Díaz, S.; Negueruela, I.; Marco, A.; Leão, J. R. S.; Herrero, A.; Gamen, R. C.; Alfaro, E. J. (2016). "The Galactic O-Star Spectroscopic Survey (GOSSS). III. 142 Additional O-type Systems".

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not known it as otherwise. Historically, that is how it is. Caldwell is irrelevant, and is only a modern invention. Caldwell is superseded by other catalogues; I.e. NGC 3372, h.3295, Δ309. ESO 128-13, etc. There are too many sources that disagree with you.

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In astronomy, I've noticed that a diameter is sometimes used for the minimum enclosing circle of an object or feature. Thus, for example, all of the named features on the Moon have a diameter; including irregular formations such as mountain ranges or

2396:"...the actual linear distance of that point from the central star, which defines the distance. Values obtained using this method are around 2.3 kiloparsecs (7,500 ly)". By implication, the nebula is significantly older than 7,500 years. 1261:

not start it, but added examples from several widely-used websites. It is unfiltered -- you will find examples of several names. I have added your examples to the list. You are welcome to add more; but it is already clear that both

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Do a simple search is ADS with words "Carina Nebula" in the title, you get many reference, but the vast majority find "Eta Carina Nebula' in the title . I.e. Sky and Telescope, 51, 378 (1976) "A View of the Eta Carina

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questioned the writing style (it being grammatically incorrect) and your methods of carrying out his debate. If you are prepared to discuss the matter rationally now, with a view to achieving consensus, well and good.

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The nebula is not called the Eta Carinae nebula, it is the Carina Nebula or the Great Nebula in Carina. The Eta Carinae nebula is also known as the Homonculus and is the much smaller nebula surrounding the star.

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Third, additions should be in reasonable English and make reasonable sense; is this an argument for Eta Argus as a title? Or that southern observers should take precedence because it's in the the southern sky?.

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As for "imperalism", "unveiled threats", and "northern observers imposing their worldview" I can cheerfully dismiss that as hyperbole if you are going to discuss the matter in a civilized manner from now on.

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It is the Eta Carina Nebula as labelled by Dunlop and John Herschel. There are also other Carina Nebulae in the constellation of Carina too! End of story. (Also "NAME ETA CAR NEBULA" appears in SIMBAD too!.

493:" is diametrically opposed to your own contention. And which exactly are all the other statements which "are silly or irelevant"? Chris H, who agrees with you, or Urbane Legend, who agrees with Keflavitch? 2186:

Sota, A.; Maíz Apellániz, J.; Morrell, N. I.; Barbá, R. H.; Walborn, N. R.; Gamen, R. C.; Arias, J. I.; Alfaro, E. J. (2014). "The Galactic O-Star Spectroscopic Survey (GOSSS). II. Bright Southern Stars".

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Some papers generally refer to this as the Carina Nebula, mostly because of differentiating the many paper published on this object, but the historical precedence as determined by southern observers like

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or "Keyhole Nebula (NGC 3324)" pg.2072, saying "A dark nebula in the constellation Carina, position RA 10 h 44.3 m , dec. -59 deg 53'. It is seen in silhouette against the bright Eta Carinae Nebula."

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can we get a list of which references use what then and highlight below? Both discussions above are rather lacking in links. Hence linking it out and settling once and for all might be prudent.

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not composed of matter coming from Eta Carinae, and the name therefore comes from the fact that it is a large nebula in the constellation Carina. Eta Carinae is a feature of the Carina nebula.

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The article says "The diameter of the Keyhole structure is approximately 7 light years." But diameters are generally used for round things, and the Keyhole isn't round, as shown here

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obscuring the surrounding nebula. Hence. the derivation of the given name. The bias of this article is to such an extent, that ANY reference to "Eta Carina Nebula" is deleted! Why?

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3. APOD refers to it as Carina Nebula and even links to it here as Carina Nebula. APOD is a higher source than SIMBAD! (the latter is purely subjective and probably not true)

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As for the rest, what I do know about astronomy is that many objects have more than one name in common use, and historical precedent counts for very little (taking the

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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.

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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.

392:). One of the other names listed, the Keyhole Nebula, is only a part of the Carina nebula. I think the wikipedia name should be "Carina Nebula" for a few reasons: 2603: 1854: 1850: 1836: 1241:

Yet for all of this, we are supposed to dump years of usage because someone thinks it should be different! Why? How many references are required to change this?

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There are even modern papers, like Hur, et al. "Distance and the Initial Mass Function of Young Open Clusters in the η Carina Nebula: Tr 14 and Tr 16" (2012)

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Gräfener, G.; Hamann, W.-R. (2008). "Mass loss from late-type WN stars and its Z-dependence. Very massive stars approaching the Eddington limit".

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Gräfener, G.; Vink, J. S.; De Koter, A.; Langer, N. (2011). "The Eddington factor as the key to understand the winds of the most massive stars".

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Also, for such an important article, the prose and content here is, well, rather terrible. I may try to do some expanding later, if time allows.

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I couldn't make any sense of it either, and have removed it. Whatever it was trying to say, it was completely unsalvageable in its current form.

2128: 1802: 1320:) is labelled "Eta Carina Nebula and Trumpler 14" and shows a much narrower field. Also, after referring to it as ECN the text on AAT 37 ends " 1682:

I can't make head nor tail of the second sentence. I don't even know what it is *trying* to say, let alone what it actually says. Anybody?

85: 44: 2399:"It is believed to have been ejected in an enormous outburst in 1841". By implication, the radius of the nebula well below 176 light years. 379:

Simbad disagrees, it say that "Eta Carinae Nebula" is the common name. And when it comes to Astronomical Objects, Simbad and Ned are gods.

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Vazquez, R. A.; Feinstein, A. (1992). "Binary stars - Another effect contributing to the supposed abnormal extinction law in NGC 6193?".

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The comments above say the AAO calls it the Carina Nebula, but evidence says the contrary. I.e. "The Eta Carinae Nebula and Trumpler 14"

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commonly called something else now. And historical precedent counts for very little in naming stuff on WP either; I suggest you read

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I agree the whole article is poorly worded, but I mostly leave nebulae for someone else. It actually looks pretty good compared to

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The following two statements in the article seem contradictory in their implications of the size and age of the Homunculus Nebula:

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Smith, Nathan (2006). "The Structure of the Homunculus. I. Shape and Latitude Dependence from H2and Velocity Maps of η Carinae".

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bright Homunculus Nebula and the dark, absorbing Keyhole Nebula. Its distance has been estimated as about 8000 light-years.",

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Hur, et al. "Distance and the Initial Mass Function of Young Open Clusters in the η Carina Nebula: Tr 14 and Tr 16" (2012)

1139: 887: 861: 104: 20: 1377:; if anyone doesn’t like the title they should follow the process for changing it, not try to bludgeon their way to victory. 168: 1413:

Fraudulent naming of deep-sky objects have been found on several by me, with motives from commercialism to outright fraud.

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which I'd been looking at. I'm still stuck there and just can't see how to fix it with anything short of a rewrite.

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4. I think most astronomers refer to it as the carina nebula, but I could be biased by talking only to those who do --

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Vazquez, R. A.; Baume, G.; Feinstein, A.; Prado, P. (1996). "Investigation on the region of the open cluster TR 14".

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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

489:. But since you are here maybe you can explainhow someone can be "110% correct", particularly as their statement " 1638: 1502: 1853:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

2478: 2413: 2063:'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for 1927:'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for 1757: 1720: 1702: 1589: 1402:

Clearly you are another northern observer imposing your worldview on others. I suggest you read the references.

129: 1322:...the Carina nebula is clearly visible to the unaided eye to those of us who live in the southern hemisphere. 395:

1. avoids confusion with the Homonculus and Little Homonculus, which are more directly associated with Eta Car

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090215225758/http://eso.org:80/public/outreach/press-rel/pr-2009/pr-05-09.html

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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called now; if it has had a variety of names in the past then a section on names would be appropriate.

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Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with

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in 1751–52, it is only visible from the Southern Hemisphere. Located an estimated 6,500 to 10,000

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size of the nebula as we see it now. (I agree that the text is not as clear as it might be.) --

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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Smith, Nathan (2006). "The Structure of the Homunculus. I. Shape and Latitude Dependence from H

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Arianewiki: If by “why argue with this person” you mean me, then (like Elphion) I should say

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this as the title of this article is "Carina Nebula", and the lead should reflect that, per

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Five years or one day is irrelevant. If it is wrong, it needs to be changed. Just saying.

1361:

First off, the issue isn’t what the thing used to be called historically, but what it is

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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After five and a half years, if you wanted to make this point you'd have been better

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under topic "Carina", says "...and NGC 3372 (the Eta Carinae Nebula), a large (: -->

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posturing. The next edit will have more than fifty references showing this is true.

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Pages within the scope of WikiProject Astronomical objects (WP Astronomy Banner)

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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for

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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for

1845:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1642: 265: 2482: 1654: 1593: 288: 259: 232: 1312:

But, to clear up what the AAO references actually say; the image I posted (

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and Collinder 228, can be found above and below Eta Carinae, respectively.

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Even the "Encyclopaedia of Astronomy and Astrophysics" (2001) and (2005),

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sticks to the NGC number and lists all three as alternate names....sigh

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The nebula is not called the Eta Carinae nebula, it is the Carina Nebula

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to change it, though as the current title was arrived at though WP:RM

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2. the name on the picture from HST/Smith et al. is the Carina Nebula

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only interest in this matter was to stop you riding rough-shod over

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Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that

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Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that

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http://www.eso.org/public/outreach/press-rel/pr-2009/pr-05-09.html

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http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2009/25/image/e/

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are in common use, and both should be highlighted in the lead.

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4 sq. deg.), bright emission nebula centred on η Carinae." p.522,

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on September 19, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at

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on September 19, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at

1063:-- Keyhole Nebula, Caldwell 92, eta Carinae Nebula (et al.) -- 1557:

Hearing no objection, I've made changes along these lines. --

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Would anyone be able to clarify this seeming contradiction?

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Carinae Nebula is a component of the Great Nebula in Carina.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of

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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of

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to the bottom left, adjacent to the Keyhole Nebula. Two

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changed to simply read “The Eta Carina Nebula...". I’ve

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Knowledge level-4 vital articles in Physical sciences

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

1849:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1151:, 51, 378 (1976) "A View of the Eta Carina Nebula" 635:, please explain your reasons, taking into account 719:The above discussion is preserved as an archive. 1344:The introduction has now acquired the statement “ 1210:http://www.aao.gov.au/images/captions/aat037.html 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 1633:that has within its boundaries several related 1189:http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2012AJ....143…41H 2389:Seeming contraditions in section on Homunculus 1835:This message was posted before February 2018. 2599:C-Class Astronomy articles of High-importance 2569:Knowledge vital articles in Physical sciences 174: 8: 2230:Astronomy and Astrophysics Supplement Series 2053:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting 1917:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting 1309:in order to impose your POV on this article. 345:, which collaborates on articles related to 287:, which collaborates on articles related to 2584:C-Class vital articles in Physical sciences 2085:The Astrophysical Journal Supplement Series 1162:Encyclopaedia of Astronomy and Astrophysics 2403: 1785:I have just modified one external link on 1430:which is against what Knowledge is about. 633:polling is not a substitute for discussion 597:— Accuracy and common-name conventions —▫ 227: 2348: 2304: 2155: 2096: 2003: 1959: 1164:(2001) and (2005) -- Eta Carinae Nebula 1273:which I was not a party) already shows. 561:Consensus was in favour of the move. -- 229: 188: 2120: 672:is ambiguous as it might refer to the 578:The following discussion is archived. 2604:C-Class Astronomical objects articles 2256:Astronomy and Astrophysics Supplement 1824:to let others know (documentation at 1367:Second, changes here are achieved by 1085:, and discusses it under eta Car. -- 7: 2189:The Astrophysical Journal Supplement 2144:The Astrophysical Journal Supplement 281:This article is within the scope of 2291:and Velocity Maps of η Carinae". 1474:Arianewiki: Perhaps I should thank 832: 668:appears to be a more common name. 218:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 2594:High-importance Astronomy articles 2127:: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI ( 14: 1789:. Please take a moment to review 2564:Knowledge level-4 vital articles 2512:A colour-composite image of the 2505: 1616: 342:WikiProject Astronomical objects 268: 258: 231: 198: 189: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 317:This article has been rated as 297:Knowledge:WikiProject Astronomy 2574:C-Class level-4 vital articles 1359:I have tagged this as dubious; 815:The lead sentence of this was 806:20:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC) 637:Knowledge's naming conventions 300:Template:WikiProject Astronomy 1: 2495:01:29, 4 September 2017 (UTC) 2471:File:Carina Nebula by ESO.jpg 2463:File:Carina Nebula by ESO.jpg 2384:00:08, 26 November 2016 (UTC) 2039:19:03, 24 November 2016 (UTC) 1903:05:54, 15 November 2016 (UTC) 1752:Eta Carinae sometime though. 1661:European Southern Observatory 1606:00:05, 3 September 2014 (UTC) 1489:as an example, discovered by 1061:Deep Sky Observer's Companion 912:) 13:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 749:21:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC) 625:, then sign your comment with 339:This article is supported by 42:Put new text under old text. 2276:Reference named "smith2006": 1948:Astronomy & Astrophysics 767:18:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC) 700:22:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC) 681:19:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC) 657:19:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC) 602:15:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC) 571:13:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC) 439:15:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC) 1978:10.1051/0004-6361/201116701 1935:Reference named "grafener": 1766:20:12, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 1747:11:19, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 1729:01:28, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 1711:01:25, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 1692:23:48, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 2625: 2589:C-Class Astronomy articles 2456:15:23, 17 April 2017 (UTC) 2439:14:15, 17 April 2017 (UTC) 2422:08:16, 17 April 2017 (UTC) 2217:Reference named "vazquez": 2209:10.1088/0067-0049/211/1/10 2174:10.1088/0067-0049/211/1/10 2022:10.1051/0004-6361:20066176 1992:Astronomy and Astrophysics 1942:List of most massive stars 1866:(last update: 5 June 2024) 1782:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1535:Also, many webpages (e.g. 1013:(results for NGC 3372) -- 384:16:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC) 374:01:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC) 323:project's importance scale 2543:More featured pictures... 2337:The Astrophysical Journal 2293:The Astrophysical Journal 2115:10.3847/0067-0049/224/1/4 1671:More featured pictures... 1639:Nicolas Louis de Lacaille 1519:23:13, 18 June 2013 (UTC) 1464:19:52, 15 June 2013 (UTC) 1440:15:09, 15 June 2013 (UTC) 1423:15:01, 15 June 2013 (UTC) 1390:11:48, 15 June 2013 (UTC) 1334:22:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC) 1292:15:08, 16 June 2013 (UTC) 1251:17:21, 15 June 2013 (UTC) 1144:20:46, 14 June 2013 (UTC) 1121:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 1095:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 1073:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 1056:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 1031:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 1006:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 985:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 964:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 943:14:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 892:03:44, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 866:03:39, 13 June 2013 (UTC) 845:09:08, 10 June 2013 (UTC) 552:11:05, 10 June 2013 (UTC) 538:10:48, 10 June 2013 (UTC) 523:11:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC) 503:09:32, 10 June 2013 (UTC) 338: 316: 253: 226: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 2479:Template:POTD/2017-09-19 2071:Reference named "gosss": 2051:I check pages listed in 1915:I check pages listed in 1637:of stars. Discovered by 1590:Template:POTD/2014-09-19 1567:01:55, 17 May 2014 (UTC) 1044:eta Carinae/Argus Nebula 782:01:00, 10 May 2021 (UTC) 722:Please do not modify it. 712:Any additional comments: 581:Please do not modify it. 481:18:03, 8 June 2013 (UTC) 2268:1996A&AS..116...75V 2242:1992A&AS...92..863V 2044:Orphaned references in 2014:2008A&A...482..945G 1970:2011A&A...535A..56G 1908:Orphaned references in 1778:External links modified 1552:20:58, 1 May 2014 (UTC) 872:Ok the Hubblesite uses 409:00:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC) 2559:C-Class vital articles 2465:to appear as POTD soon 1582:File:Carina Nebula.jpg 1574:File:Carina Nebula.jpg 1101:The Southern Sky Guide 335: 75:avoid personal attacks 2473:will be appearing as 1584:will be appearing as 1099:Ellyard & Tirion 1077:Burnham calls it the 921:: Eta Carinae Nebula 487:starting a new thread 334: 284:WikiProject Astronomy 205:level-4 vital article 100:Neutral point of view 1847:regular verification 1532:the Keyhole Nebula. 1444:Shouldn't it be Eta 811:Title, lead sentence 347:astronomical objects 244:Astronomical objects 105:No original research 2359:2006ApJ...644.1151S 2315:2006ApJ...644.1151S 2201:2014ApJS..211...10S 2166:2014ApJS..211...10S 2107:2016ApJS..224....4M 2057:orphaned references 1921:orphaned references 1837:After February 2018 1816:parameter below to 790:New image from NASA 2524:open star clusters 2501:Picture of the day 2475:picture of the day 1891:InternetArchiveBot 1842:InternetArchiveBot 1629:is a large bright 1612:Picture of the day 1586:picture of the day 1503:WP:MODERNPLACENAME 1267:eta Carinae Nebula 1105:eta Carinae Nebula 1015:eta Carinae Nebula 670:Eta Carinae Nebula 591:Eta Carinae Nebula 336: 303:Astronomy articles 214:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 2536: 2424: 2408:comment added by 2331:Homunculus Nebula 1867: 1678:Opening paragraph 1664: 1576:to appear as POTD 1149:Sky and Telescope 674:Homunculus Nebula 462: 451:re-opened after 5 361: 360: 357: 356: 353: 352: 183: 182: 66:Assume good faith 43: 2616: 2531: 2509: 2381: 2370: 2352: 2350:astro-ph/0602464 2326: 2308: 2306:astro-ph/0602464 2271: 2245: 2212: 2177: 2159: 2132: 2126: 2118: 2100: 2036: 2025: 2007: 1981: 1963: 1901: 1892: 1865: 1864: 1843: 1831: 1658: 1620: 1537:APOD 9 June 2011 1111:to Herschel. -- 724: 629: 623: 617: 583: 460: 459: 455: 450: 305: 304: 301: 298: 295: 278: 276:Astronomy portal 273: 272: 271: 262: 255: 254: 249: 246: 235: 228: 211: 202: 201: 194: 193: 185: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 2624: 2623: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2615: 2614: 2613: 2549: 2548: 2547: 2546: 2545: 2510: 2503: 2467: 2391: 2379: 2334: 2290: 2286: 2253: 2227: 2185: 2140: 2119: 2081: 2049: 2034: 1989: 1945: 1913: 1895: 1890: 1858: 1851:have permission 1841: 1825: 1795:this simple FaQ 1780: 1680: 1675: 1674: 1673: 1621: 1614: 1578: 1529: 1342: 1081:which contains 833:a few years ago 813: 792: 734: 729: 720: 708: 627: 621: 615: 609: 579: 559: 457: 453: 452: 432:requested moves 366: 319:High-importance 302: 299: 296: 293: 292: 274: 269: 267: 248:High‑importance 247: 241: 212:on Knowledge's 209: 199: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 12: 11: 5: 2622: 2620: 2612: 2611: 2606: 2601: 2596: 2591: 2586: 2581: 2576: 2571: 2566: 2561: 2551: 2550: 2537: 2511: 2504: 2499: 2498: 2487:Chris Woodrich 2466: 2460: 2459: 2458: 2442: 2441: 2410:Ralph Purtcher 2390: 2387: 2372: 2371: 2367:10.1086/503766 2327: 2323:10.1086/503766 2288: 2273: 2272: 2246: 2214: 2213: 2178: 2133: 2048: 2042: 2027: 2026: 1982: 1912: 1906: 1885: 1884: 1877: 1810: 1809: 1801:Added archive 1779: 1776: 1775: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1768: 1754:StringTheory11 1717:StringTheory11 1699:StringTheory11 1679: 1676: 1665: 1622: 1615: 1610: 1609: 1577: 1571: 1570: 1569: 1528: 1525: 1524: 1523: 1522: 1521: 1506: 1483: 1479: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1466: 1426: 1425: 1410: 1409: 1404: 1403: 1398: 1397: 1378: 1366: 1360: 1358: 1341: 1338: 1337: 1336: 1310: 1258: 1257: 1256: 1255: 1254: 1253: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1228: 1227: 1217: 1216: 1215: 1214: 1213: 1212: 1206: 1203: 1199: 1195: 1192: 1185: 1181: 1177: 1168: 1167: 1159: 1154: 1146: 1123: 1109:Keyhole Nebula 1097: 1079:Keyhole Nebula 1075: 1058: 1038:-- gives both 1033: 1019:Keyhole Nebula 1011:NGC/IC Project 1008: 987: 966: 945: 924: 915: 894: 869: 868: 829:requested move 812: 809: 791: 788: 787: 786: 785: 784: 733: 732:Keyhole nebula 730: 728: 727: 715: 714: 707: 704: 703: 702: 683: 659: 654:132.205.99.122 642: 641: 616:*'''Support''' 608: 605: 589: 587: 586: 574: 558: 557:Requested move 555: 510: 509: 508: 507: 506: 505: 464: 447: 446: 445: 444: 443: 442: 441: 434:for review. ▫ 422: 421: 420: 419: 418: 417: 416: 415: 402: 399: 396: 365: 362: 359: 358: 355: 354: 351: 350: 337: 327: 326: 315: 309: 308: 306: 280: 279: 263: 251: 250: 236: 224: 223: 217: 195: 181: 180: 118: 117: 113: 112: 107: 102: 93: 92: 90: 89: 82: 77: 68: 62: 60: 59: 48: 39: 38: 35: 34: 28: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2621: 2610: 2607: 2605: 2602: 2600: 2597: 2595: 2592: 2590: 2587: 2585: 2582: 2580: 2577: 2575: 2572: 2570: 2567: 2565: 2562: 2560: 2557: 2556: 2554: 2544: 2540: 2535: 2529: 2525: 2521: 2517: 2516: 2515:Carina Nebula 2508: 2502: 2497: 2496: 2492: 2488: 2484: 2480: 2476: 2472: 2464: 2461: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2444: 2443: 2440: 2436: 2432: 2427: 2426: 2425: 2423: 2419: 2415: 2411: 2407: 2400: 2397: 2394: 2388: 2386: 2385: 2382: 2377: 2368: 2364: 2360: 2356: 2351: 2346: 2342: 2338: 2332: 2328: 2324: 2320: 2316: 2312: 2307: 2302: 2298: 2294: 2284: 2280: 2279: 2278: 2277: 2269: 2265: 2261: 2257: 2251: 2247: 2243: 2239: 2235: 2231: 2225: 2221: 2220: 2219: 2218: 2210: 2206: 2202: 2198: 2194: 2190: 2183: 2179: 2175: 2171: 2167: 2163: 2158: 2153: 2149: 2145: 2138: 2134: 2130: 2124: 2116: 2112: 2108: 2104: 2099: 2094: 2090: 2086: 2079: 2075: 2074: 2073: 2072: 2068: 2066: 2062: 2061:Carina Nebula 2058: 2054: 2047: 2046:Carina Nebula 2043: 2041: 2040: 2037: 2032: 2023: 2019: 2015: 2011: 2006: 2001: 1997: 1993: 1987: 1983: 1979: 1975: 1971: 1967: 1962: 1957: 1953: 1949: 1943: 1939: 1938: 1937: 1936: 1932: 1930: 1926: 1925:Carina Nebula 1922: 1918: 1911: 1910:Carina Nebula 1907: 1905: 1904: 1899: 1894: 1893: 1882: 1878: 1875: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1862: 1856: 1852: 1848: 1844: 1838: 1833: 1829: 1823: 1819: 1815: 1808: 1804: 1800: 1799: 1798: 1796: 1792: 1788: 1787:Carina Nebula 1783: 1777: 1767: 1763: 1759: 1755: 1750: 1749: 1748: 1744: 1740: 1736: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1726: 1722: 1718: 1714: 1713: 1712: 1708: 1704: 1700: 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1689: 1685: 1677: 1672: 1668: 1663:/T. Preibisch 1662: 1656: 1652: 1648: 1644: 1640: 1636: 1635:open clusters 1632: 1628: 1627: 1626:Carina Nebula 1619: 1613: 1608: 1607: 1603: 1599: 1595: 1591: 1587: 1583: 1575: 1572: 1568: 1564: 1560: 1556: 1555: 1554: 1553: 1549: 1545: 1540: 1538: 1533: 1526: 1520: 1516: 1512: 1507: 1504: 1500: 1499:WP:COMMONNAME 1495: 1494: 1488: 1484: 1480: 1477: 1473: 1472: 1471: 1470: 1465: 1461: 1458: 1455: 1451: 1447: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1437: 1433: 1428: 1427: 1424: 1420: 1416: 1412: 1411: 1406: 1405: 1400: 1399: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1387: 1383: 1376: 1375: 1374:fait accompli 1370: 1364: 1356: 1354: 1353:John Herschel 1350: 1339: 1335: 1331: 1327: 1323: 1319: 1315: 1311: 1308: 1304: 1300: 1296: 1295: 1294: 1293: 1289: 1285: 1280: 1278: 1274: 1270: 1268: 1264: 1263:Carina Nebula 1252: 1248: 1244: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1226: 1225: 1223: 1222: 1221: 1220: 1219: 1218: 1211: 1207: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1193: 1190: 1186: 1182: 1178: 1174: 1173: 1172: 1171: 1170: 1169: 1166: 1163: 1160: 1158: 1155: 1153: 1150: 1147: 1145: 1141: 1138: 1135: 1131: 1127: 1124: 1122: 1118: 1114: 1110: 1107:, attributes 1106: 1102: 1098: 1096: 1092: 1088: 1084: 1080: 1076: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1062: 1059: 1057: 1053: 1049: 1045: 1041: 1040:Carina Nebula 1037: 1034: 1032: 1028: 1024: 1020: 1016: 1012: 1009: 1007: 1003: 999: 995: 994:Carina Nebula 991: 988: 986: 982: 978: 974: 973:Carina Nebula 970: 967: 965: 961: 957: 953: 952:Carina Nebula 949: 946: 944: 940: 936: 932: 931:Carina Nebula 928: 925: 923: 920: 916: 914: 911: 907: 903: 899: 896:There’s also 895: 893: 889: 886: 883: 879: 875: 874:Carina Nebula 871: 870: 867: 863: 860: 857: 853: 849: 848: 847: 846: 842: 838: 834: 830: 826: 822: 818: 810: 808: 807: 803: 799: 796: 789: 783: 779: 775: 770: 769: 768: 764: 763: 758: 753: 752: 751: 750: 746: 742: 738: 731: 726: 723: 717: 716: 713: 710: 709: 705: 701: 697: 696: 691: 687: 684: 682: 679: 675: 671: 667: 666:Carina Nebula 663: 660: 658: 655: 651: 647: 644: 643: 640: 638: 634: 626: 622:*'''Oppose''' 620: 614: 611: 610: 606: 604: 603: 600: 599:Urbane Legend 596: 595:Carina Nebula 592: 585: 582: 576: 575: 573: 572: 568: 564: 556: 554: 553: 549: 545: 540: 539: 535: 531: 525: 524: 520: 516: 504: 500: 496: 492: 488: 484: 483: 482: 478: 474: 469: 468: 467: 466: 465: 440: 437: 436:Urbane Legend 433: 428: 427: 426: 425: 424: 423: 412: 411: 410: 407: 403: 400: 397: 394: 393: 391: 387: 386: 385: 382: 378: 377: 376: 375: 372: 363: 348: 344: 343: 333: 329: 328: 324: 320: 314: 311: 310: 307: 291:on Knowledge. 290: 286: 285: 277: 266: 264: 261: 257: 256: 252: 245: 240: 237: 234: 230: 225: 221: 215: 207: 206: 196: 192: 187: 186: 177: 173: 170: 167: 163: 159: 155: 152: 149: 146: 143: 140: 137: 134: 131: 127: 124: 123:Find sources: 120: 119: 111: 110:Verifiability 108: 106: 103: 101: 98: 97: 96: 87: 83: 81: 78: 76: 72: 69: 67: 64: 63: 57: 53: 52:Learn to edit 49: 46: 41: 40: 37: 36: 32: 26: 25:Carina Nebula 22: 18: 17: 2532:Photograph: 2513: 2468: 2404:— Preceding 2401: 2398: 2395: 2392: 2373: 2340: 2336: 2296: 2292: 2275: 2274: 2259: 2255: 2233: 2229: 2216: 2215: 2192: 2188: 2147: 2143: 2123:cite journal 2088: 2084: 2070: 2069: 2064: 2050: 2028: 1995: 1991: 1951: 1947: 1934: 1933: 1928: 1914: 1889: 1886: 1861:source check 1840: 1834: 1821: 1817: 1813: 1811: 1784: 1781: 1681: 1624: 1596:. Thanks! — 1579: 1541: 1534: 1530: 1492: 1475: 1456: 1445: 1373: 1349:James Dunlop 1345: 1343: 1321: 1298: 1281: 1276: 1275: 1271: 1266: 1262: 1259: 1165: 1161: 1157: 1152: 1148: 1136: 1108: 1104: 1100: 1082: 1078: 1043: 1039: 1018: 1014: 993: 972: 951: 930: 922: 913: 884: 858: 814: 793: 774:CayenneEMatt 761: 735: 721: 718: 711: 694: 685: 669: 665: 661: 649: 645: 630: 624: 618: 612: 588: 580: 577: 560: 541: 526: 511: 490: 448: 389:Nebula (see 367: 340: 318: 282: 220:WikiProjects 203: 171: 165: 157: 150: 144: 138: 132: 122: 94: 19:This is the 2528:Trumpler 14 2520:Eta Carinae 2343:(2): 1151. 2299:(2): 1151. 2283:Eta Carinae 1828:Sourcecheck 1735:Eta Carinae 1651:Eta Carinae 1643:light years 1598:Crisco 1492 1527:The Keyhole 1511:Moonraker12 1432:Arianewiki1 1415:Arianewiki1 1382:Moonraker12 1326:Moonraker12 1243:Arianewiki1 1083:The Keyhole 906:Moonraker12 837:Moonraker12 678:Spacepotato 648:, IIRC the 544:Arianewiki1 530:Arianewiki1 515:Arianewiki1 495:Moonraker12 473:Arianewiki1 364:Proper name 148:free images 31:not a forum 2553:Categories 2448:Lithopsian 2098:1602.01336 1998:(3): 945. 1898:Report bug 1739:Lithopsian 1684:Lithopsian 1487:7th planet 990:Astrobites 948:Phil Plait 917:Also from 706:Discussion 2483:Main Page 2376:AnomieBOT 2157:1312.6222 2031:AnomieBOT 2005:0803.0866 1961:1106.5361 1881:this tool 1874:this tool 1655:HD 93129A 1594:Main Page 1491:Herschel 1450:Cas Liber 1371:, not by 1369:consensus 1307:principle 1303:guideline 1180:and star. 1130:Cas Liber 900:from the 878:Cas Liber 876:then..... 852:Cas Liber 406:Keflavich 371:Keflavich 294:Astronomy 289:Astronomy 239:Astronomy 208:is rated 88:if needed 71:Be polite 21:talk page 2418:contribs 2406:unsigned 2250:HD 93129 2224:NGC 6193 2137:NGC 6193 2078:HD 93129 1887:Cheers.— 1460:contribs 1448:nebula? 1363:commonly 1140:contribs 888:contribs 862:contribs 825:MOS:LEAD 821:reverted 755:rilles.— 631:. 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