1316:"I am opening this discussion after the recent series of back-and-forth reverts that started as a result of my addition of the word "erroneous" into the first sentence of this article. Per the scientific consensus on the HIV pathogen, it does indeed cause AIDS if left untreated, and denying said fact is by definition erroneous, since denialists do not have any factual or scientific basis at all for their claims and are repeating incorrect statements, which I have clarified in my edit summaries." The problem with that unsourced statement, is that it erroneously presumes that 'denialists' (an emotive word) only believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. The problem is that there are many more problems with the orthodox view of HIV/AIDS. First, the prosaic origin story of the 'Bush Meat' origin of the epidemic and the subsequent building epidemic escaping from the jungle; or the gay flight attendant Gaetan Dugas being 'patient zero', while in fact it was Merck's (hepatitis B) vaccine
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The first proposed edit, which only adds in "erroneous" to the first sentence while leaving everything else unchanged, does not make the article worse (As in compromising the factual accuracy of information, violating
Knowledge policy, or disrupting its tone), especially since the word "erroneous" is
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I am opening this discussion after the recent series of back-and-forth reverts that started as a result of my addition of the word "erroneous" into the first sentence of this article. Per the scientific consensus on the HIV pathogen, it does indeed cause AIDS if left untreated, and denying said fact
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does not require that all hypotheses be treated as equal or valid, nor is neutrality decided by the opinions of editors. On
Knowledge, neutrality is represented by a fair summary of the opinion found in the relevant reliable, independent sources. If those sources reject an idea with unanimity or
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which was the origin of SIV in the gay communities of New York, LA and San
Francisco; IV drug users; prostitutes and Haitian immigrants exposed to bad water. Then, there is the extent of the epidemic, also known as 'AIDS in Africa', which is completely based on modeling, and is not supported by
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is by definition erroneous, since denialists do not have any factual or scientific basis at all for their claims and are repeating incorrect statements, which I have clarified in my edit summaries. The definition of "erroneous" is also clear according to the Oxford
English Dictionary:
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phrasing, "HIV/AIDS denialism is the belief, contradicted by conclusive evidence..." adequately communicates the status of HIV denialism. Additional negative modifiers are unnecessarily repetitive. Unnecessary repetition makes the article worse.
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Knowledge does not have a bias toward the status quo (except in cases of fully developed disputes, while they are being resolved). In fact, Knowledge has a bias toward change, as a means of maximizing quality by maximizing participation."
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describing statements or beliefs that are false, misleading, or incorrect, which denialism of scientific facts represents. A clarification as to why would said edit worsen the quality of this article would be appropriate in this case.
745:, a collaborative effort to improve Knowledge's coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
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for such an example). Before starting another discussion about the article title, please consult the above policy and guideline, and read through the archives to see if your concern has already been addressed.
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The scientists most often cited by the AIDS denialism movements are usually speaking outside their field of expertise, and generally have not published their disputes in reputable journals. For instance,
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to hopefully end this edit war, Antandrus swiftly came in and rolled it back with the same reasoning of "no improvement", even though the very page I have cited contradicts said reasoning, as it states:
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470:, it would be a disservice to our readers to fail to report this as part of a full treatment of the topic. Further advice for how to treat topics such as this one may be found at the
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Appreciate the history, Mathglot. I remembered there was an LTA who focused on this page, though it was escaping me who it was — I don't have a great memory for those things.
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The fact that denialists believe other loony crap does not make their erroneous belief that HIV does not cause AIDS less erroneous, so this is irrelevant. --
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Yes, it's absolutely him. I've followed for a while. FYI he also typically simultaneously vandalizes Simple and the
Spanish wikis.
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I tried my best to bring
Ezequiel (in 2018, a minor child) back into the fold, but was unable to. Sad to see he's still at it.
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So why were my edits still reverted in spite of my explanation and the fact it didn't damage the article? Even when I cited
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There are several alternative terms describing the same constellation of ideas, and
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could you run the guc tool run on the IP ranges indicated? There may be more than one range; see above.
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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the
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who was very helpful; so were a lot of other admins, notably Huon, Kudpung, Yamla, 331dot, and others.
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545:. Within the virology research community, however, there is no longer any doubt that HIV causes AIDS.
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Q3: What about the famous and respectable scientists who dispute the role of HIV in causing AIDS?
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1280:'Erroneous' and 'contradicted by conclusive evidence' is the same thing. No need for tautology
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For a reversion to be appropriate, the reverted edit must actually make the article worse.
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942:-related issues on Knowledge. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the
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Yet you simply continued to revert, referring (with I suppose unintentional humor) to
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Yes, your addition made the article worse, as I explained twice in my edit summaries,
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Q1: Why does this article dismiss AIDS denialism as a valid scientific hypothesis?
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If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review
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it does make the prose style less encyclopedic and less grownup
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that have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. The
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The proposed edit makes the article worse. Good revert.
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procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
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the relevant Knowledge policy on recruitment of editors
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1402:User talk:190.173.150.216#Range blocked again
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1414:User talk:191.85.20.46#HIV/Aids denialism
1318:Interview with prof. dr. Maurice Hilleman
1361:Hi Ezequiel, ¿cómo sos vos? ¿Todo bien?
404:. Disputes on Knowledge are resolved by
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1181:"Erroneous belief" discussion
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362:standards of behaviour
92:avoid personal attacks
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1189:"Wrong; incorrect."
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1400:See also:
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364:, or any
105:if needed
88:Be polite
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