Knowledge (XXG)

Talk:Agent Orange/GA1

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835: 810: 777: 724: 701: 680: 659: 623: 602: 573: 552: 494: 473: 356: 235:"A weapon, by definition, is any device used to injure, defeat, or destroy living beings, structures, or systems, and Agent Orange did not qualify under that definition." This isn't true as it stands, as Agent Orange evidently destroys living plants, so we must not make the statement in Knowledge (XXG)'s voice. Please attribute it appropriately, e.g. "The U.S. delegation argued that ...". 357:
https://books.google.com/books?id=PeFK5dkYZsEC&pg=PT95&lpg=PT95&dq=agent+orange,+crops,+people+abandoned+countryside&source=bl&ots=F-WA-MM2FS&sig=PPABL_fQsYcWTDgKVJ7R9mCR2lU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLrIShq_7SAhWFTCYKHVifD0kQ6AEITDAH#v=onepage&q=agent%20orange%2C%20crops%2C%20people%20abandoned%20countryside&f=false
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Every ref requires a title, publisher, date/accessdate, and author (in Surname, I.J. (last name, comma, space, initial, dot, initial, dot; or Surname, Forename and middle initial) if available. Please use the {{cite web |title= ...}} or similar template (cite journal, etc) throughout the article for
249:"Rural-to-urban migration rates dramatically increased ........ Saigon slums." Does Luong 2003 specifically attribute this flow to Agent Orange, or simply to the war? We need an actual quotation here, either in the text or in the citation, to cover this. If it's simply to the war, the paragraph is 850:
This is a long-established article on a controversial subject. A substantial effort has been made to provide reliable sources and to cover the main points fairly and evenly. The article is now well cited and appropriate in tone and coverage, which is quite an achievement. Well done all who helped.
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References 2, 3, 39, 40, 57, 85, 88, 90, 93, 94, 97, 99, 110, 116, 121, 128, 129, 130, 131, 139, 146, 147, 156, 157 are inadequately formatted or not formatted at all. Many others are incompletely formatted so all references in the article (not just these specifically listed) now require checking.
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Removing that paragraph fixes the question of whether it was OR, but the sociopolitical effects are now not adequately covered (i.e. the article is more unbalanced, and it was already very heavy on the health effects, just as it is very heavy on Vietnam despite efforts at balance with "Use outside
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I note the detailed References and Bibliography (which ought really to be linked using the Harvard mechanism), but do not see why there is also a lengthy "Further reading" list with Books, "Journal articles/papers", News, Video, Photojournalism - if these are needed, please link them; otherwise,
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Yes it could, along with the RAND quote and citation, and Luong 2003, so you are authorised to restore the old material and to extend it. Please be careful to say that bombing and artillery, bulldozing, and Agent Orange spraying, including deliberate spraying of rice paddies, all contributed to
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I've had a look for sources, and can't find anything usable. There certainly was rural depopulation, but that was attributed in the sources I found to fighting, including artillery and bombing. I've therefore removed the section. If anyone finds reliable sources in future, they are welcome to
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forcing the depopulation of rural Vietnam, and the resulting surge of people into the cities. It is essentially impossible to separate the effects of these, given that they were essentially all simultaneous, widespread, and of long duration, and Turse wisely discusses them together.
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The lead section currently spends 2 of its 3 paragraphs on law, and says nothing about many of the sections of the article (e.g. Use outside Vietnam, legal and diplomatic proceedings) and almost nothing about Health effects, Ecological and Sociopolitical impact. Please
402:{{cite book|last=Turse|first=Nick|title=Kill Anything That Moves: The Real American War in Vietnam|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PeFK5dkYZsEC&pg=PT95|date=2013-01-15|publisher=Henry Holt and Company|isbn=978-0-8050-9547-0|pages=95–99}}</ref: --> 173:
There seems to be very little wrong with this carefully written and well cited article. I note that the article has recently been through a rigorous copyright check, which found and removed longstanding violations; it easily passes such a check today.
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You've altered the paragraph without addressing the issue here. If Luong 2003 specifically attributes the population flow to Agent Orange, please supply a quotation (can be |quote=..... inside the citation); if not, the paragraph must be
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Vietnam"). What we need to do is find some reliable sources on the sociopolitical effects, including rural depopulation and migration to the big cities; Luong is certainly reliable but we ought to know what it actually says. The article
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The same basically applies to the Government/NGO reports: these ought to be linked in the existing text, or briefly mentioned and linked if they aren't there already, but it's not a pass/fail issue.
593:, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). 590: 242:" if they (the VC) " - if this is an editorial gloss, then please format it with square brackets as ; if not, then please gloss it with "(sic)" as it's a non-standard format. 482: 519: 193:
Chemical composition: please spell out the chemical names in the image captions, and wikilink them. You may give the abbreviations after these if desired, in parentheses.
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External links: what are these for? Things like "Poisoned Lives" seem POV if not off-topic altogether. Please justify or remove each item.
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The lead image has no date, nor does it mention the Vietnam War (1961-71). It should do one or the other, and wikilink as necessary.
632: 611: 107: 786: 99: 798: 582: 586: 503: 228:"including Arthur Galston": Please gloss him (e.g. "the botanist and bioethicist Arthur Galston)" at first mention. 790: 689: 537: 273:
should be linked somewhere (probably a {{main| }} link; it may offer useful sources on the sociopolitical effects.
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Use in the Vietnam War: "Spraying was usually done " is inelegant. Suggest "Agent Orange was usually sprayed".
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move the 2 law paragraphs into the body of the article (a new section, International law, perhaps)
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Early Use: please use sentence case (Early use). Please also give dates of the Malayan Emergency.
146: 767: 560:. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with 179:
I have marked 5 places where citations seem to be needed, or uncited text needs to be removed.
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Removed the Journal articles/papers, only 2 minor items not adding substantially to article.
715:: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. 250: 435:, and create 2 or 3 new paragraphs in the lead to summarize the contents of the article. 382: 366: 92: 214:
Early use image: please remove mention of later Vietnam War from image caption.
688:. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see 416: 374: 289: 160: 736:: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing 308:
I've formatted the first few for you to show what is wanted.
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Development: "during WWII": please spell out and wikilink.
134: 103: 483:understandable to an appropriately broad audience 271:Effects of Agent Orange on the Vietnamese people 8: 30: 443: 61: 33: 395:Here is the Turse citation, formatted: 7: 485:; spelling and grammar are correct. 323:please remove them from the article. 481:. the prose is clear, concise, and 24: 279:reinsert a section on this topic. 833: 808: 775: 722: 699: 678: 657: 621: 600: 571: 550: 492: 471: 365:, I think this link could help. 591:could reasonably be challenged 1: 795:valid non-free use rationales 834: 809: 776: 723: 700: 679: 658: 622: 601: 572: 551: 493: 472: 868: 562:the layout style guideline 417:15:00, 30 March 2017 (UTC) 375:13:48, 30 March 2017 (UTC) 290:07:42, 30 March 2017 (UTC) 161:13:24, 27 March 2017 (UTC) 747: 645: 532: 459: 449: 446: 822:to the topic, and have 502:. it complies with the 315:consistent formatting. 650:Broad in its coverage 352:Sociopolitical impact 740:or content dispute. 633:copyright violations 612:no original research 543:no original research 667:. it addresses the 589:. All content that 845:Overall assessment 791:copyright statuses 754:, if possible, by 524:list incorporation 855: 854: 824:suitable captions 797:are provided for 631:. it contains no 89: 88: 18:Talk:Agent Orange 859: 837: 836: 812: 811: 799:non-free content 779: 778: 726: 725: 703: 702: 682: 681: 661: 660: 625: 624: 604: 603: 583:reliable sources 575: 574: 554: 553: 496: 495: 475: 474: 444: 139: 130: 111: 43:Copyvio detector 31: 867: 866: 862: 861: 860: 858: 857: 856: 743:Reasonably so. 506:guidelines for 504:Manual of Style 455:Review Comment 442: 427: 354: 304: 171: 120: 97: 91: 85: 57: 29: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 865: 863: 853: 852: 848: 838: 830: 829: 827: 813: 805: 804: 802: 780: 772: 771: 745: 744: 741: 727: 719: 718: 716: 704: 696: 695: 693: 683: 675: 674: 672: 671:of the topic. 662: 654: 653: 643: 642: 640: 626: 618: 617: 615: 610:. it contains 605: 597: 596: 594: 576: 568: 567: 565: 555: 547: 546: 530: 529: 527: 516:words to watch 497: 489: 488: 486: 476: 468: 467: 457: 456: 453: 448: 441: 438: 437: 436: 426: 423: 422: 421: 420: 419: 399: 398: 397: 396: 390: 389: 388: 387: 353: 350: 349: 348: 342: 341: 335: 334: 333: 332: 326: 325: 318: 317: 310: 309: 303: 300: 299: 298: 297: 296: 295: 294: 293: 292: 256: 255: 245: 244: 238: 237: 231: 230: 224: 223: 217: 216: 210: 209: 203: 202: 196: 195: 189: 188: 182: 181: 170: 167: 165: 140: 87: 86: 84: 83: 78: 73: 67: 64: 63: 59: 58: 56: 55: 53:External links 50: 45: 39: 36: 35: 28: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 864: 849: 846: 842: 839: 832: 831: 828: 825: 821: 817: 814: 807: 806: 803: 800: 796: 792: 788: 784: 781: 774: 773: 769: 765: 761: 757: 753: 750: 746: 742: 739: 735: 731: 728: 721: 720: 717: 714: 713: 708: 705: 698: 697: 694: 691: 690:summary style 687: 684: 677: 676: 673: 670: 666: 663: 656: 655: 651: 648: 644: 641: 638: 634: 630: 627: 620: 619: 616: 613: 609: 606: 599: 598: 595: 592: 588: 584: 580: 577: 570: 569: 566: 563: 559: 556: 549: 548: 544: 540: 539: 535: 531: 528: 525: 521: 517: 513: 509: 508:lead sections 505: 501: 498: 491: 490: 487: 484: 480: 477: 470: 469: 465: 462: 458: 454: 452: 445: 439: 434: 429: 428: 424: 418: 414: 410: 409:Chiswick Chap 407: 406: 405: 404: 403: 394: 393: 392: 391: 384: 381: 380: 379: 378: 377: 376: 372: 368: 364: 363:Chiswick Chap 359: 358: 351: 347: 344: 343: 340: 337: 336: 330: 329: 328: 327: 324: 320: 319: 316: 312: 311: 306: 305: 301: 291: 287: 283: 282:Chiswick Chap 280: 276: 275: 274: 272: 266: 265: 264: 260: 259: 258: 257: 254: 252: 247: 246: 243: 240: 239: 236: 233: 232: 229: 226: 225: 222: 219: 218: 215: 212: 211: 208: 205: 204: 201: 198: 197: 194: 191: 190: 187: 184: 183: 180: 177: 176: 175: 168: 166: 163: 162: 158: 155: 152: 148: 147:Chiswick Chap 145: 141: 138: 137: 133: 128: 124: 119: 118: 114: 109: 105: 101: 96: 95: 82: 79: 77: 74: 72: 69: 68: 66: 65: 60: 54: 51: 49: 46: 44: 41: 40: 38: 37: 32: 26: 19: 844: 840: 818:. media are 815: 785:. media are 782: 755: 751: 748: 733: 729: 710: 706: 685: 669:main aspects 664: 649: 646: 628: 607: 587:cited inline 578: 557: 542: 536: 533: 499: 478: 464:Well-written 463: 460: 432: 401:<ref: --> 400: 360: 355: 345: 338: 321: 313: 277: 267: 261: 248: 241: 234: 227: 220: 213: 206: 199: 192: 185: 178: 172: 164: 153: 143: 142: 135: 131: 117:Article talk 116: 112: 93: 90: 81:Instructions 789:with their 752:Illustrated 104:visual edit 637:plagiarism 538:Verifiable 302:References 48:Authorship 34:GA toolbox 451:Attribute 144:Reviewer: 71:Templates 62:Reviewing 27:GA Review 820:relevant 758:such as 738:edit war 383:Uptoniga 367:Uptoniga 263:removed. 169:Comments 157:contribs 76:Criteria 712:Neutral 520:fiction 440:Summary 127:history 108:history 94:Article 793:, and 787:tagged 760:images 734:Stable 522:, and 512:layout 768:audio 766:, or 764:video 756:media 541:with 447:Rate 251:WP:OR 136:Watch 16:< 585:are 425:Lead 413:talk 371:talk 286:talk 151:talk 123:edit 100:edit 692:). 635:or 361:Hi 847:. 843:. 826:. 816:6b 801:. 783:6a 770:: 762:, 749:6. 732:. 709:. 686:3b 665:3a 652:: 647:3. 639:. 629:2d 614:. 608:2c 581:. 579:2b 564:. 558:2a 545:: 534:2. 526:. 518:, 514:, 510:, 500:1b 479:1a 466:: 461:1. 415:) 373:) 288:) 159:) 125:| 106:| 102:| 841:7 730:5 707:4 411:( 369:( 284:( 253:. 154:· 149:( 132:· 129:) 121:( 113:· 110:) 98:(

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Talk:Agent Orange
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Chiswick Chap
talk
contribs
13:24, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
WP:OR
Effects of Agent Orange on the Vietnamese people
Chiswick Chap
talk
07:42, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
https://books.google.com/books?id=PeFK5dkYZsEC&pg=PT95&lpg=PT95&dq=agent+orange,+crops,+people+abandoned+countryside&source=bl&ots=F-WA-MM2FS&sig=PPABL_fQsYcWTDgKVJ7R9mCR2lU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLrIShq_7SAhWFTCYKHVifD0kQ6AEITDAH#v=onepage&q=agent%20orange%2C%20crops%2C%20people%20abandoned%20countryside&f=false
Chiswick Chap
Uptoniga
talk
13:48, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Uptoniga

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