1893:. I am not an expert specifically in the historiography of Griffith or Sinn Fein, but it seemed to me that the only way this statement as it now stood in the article could be true is if scholars in other fields have discussed Griffith's antisemitism (as they have) but somehow scholars of Griffith and Sinn Fein have not (though I very much doubt this is the case, to my thinking the only thing that this would suggest is that scholars of Griffith and Sinn Fein have taken special pains to avoid this topic, which would then in itself be a cause for careful reflection.) Fourth, because it is also clearly relevant to Griffith's views on Jewish people and provides a deeper and more illuminating account of Griffith's views, it also seemed worthwhile to include Griffith's discussion of Zionists and Zionism. Again, very happy to discuss further and negotiate tweaks, revisions, etc.
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1200:, but it was difficult to keep him quiet, and he resumed his daily work in the government building. He had been about to leave for his office shortly before 10 am on 12 August 1922, when he paused to retie his shoelace and fell down unconscious. He regained consciousness, but collapsed again with blood coming from his mouth. Three doctors rendered assistance, but to no avail. Father John Lee of the
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discussion that the peer-reviewed scholarship does not, I have taken the liberty of removing Sebag
Montefiore's article. Third, and for similar reasons, since discussion of Griffith's antisemitic tenure at the United Irishman has been discussed quite widely in scholarship well before (and well after) Sebag Montefiore's article in 1997, I have also removed the phrase:
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the same assertions and accusations (Griffith's involvement in the
Limerick Pogrom, for example) without any one of them offering any citation or evidence for said accusations. I would argue that this does not meet Knowledge's guidelines and the entire section should be deleted until such time that adequate citations can be found. ---
1988:, especially in the 'Cyclops' episode" – but isn't mentioned in biographies of Griffith, histories of Sinn Féin or general Irish histories. This makes it UNDUE. The effect is to make it appear that Griffith was unique among public figures in the 1900s, a time when this sort of antisemitism was the norm across Europe and North America.
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Westminster in 1877, led by C.S. Parnell and J.G. Biggar, was in Paris during the 'Dreyfuss Affair' (which probably encouraged such anti-Semitic writings). The
Limerick 'pogrom' is problematic as it has been called into question by Keogh as to whether or not it merits the title of 'pogrom', he concludes that it was a boycott.
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1984:, at the same time as the thread immediately above this one. What's notable about them is that they exclusively cite Joycean scholars. The thing is, the antisemitism thing seems to be found in Joycean studies – presumably because, as the edits state, it "has been credited with shaping various aspects of Joyce's
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Apart from his antisemitism, Griffith expressed, in his 1913 preface to The Jail
Journal of John Mitchel (his predecessor as editor of The United Irishman), strong sympathy with Mitchel's support for slavery and opposition to the Union in the American Civil War. Griffith regarded the Enlightenment as
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they add something to the article that it otherwise lacks. Saying they were "sourced" is also inaccurate as only two of the four were referenced, and anyway WP:V only says that all content that is included must be verifiable, not that everything that is verifiable must be included. You haven't made a
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To the contrary, Griffith is clearly notable here for his anti-semitism in that he was a quite well-known editor, publisher and journalist of his day (even before we get to his leading roles in Cumann na nGaedheal, and subsequently Sinn FĂ©in). Moreover, in this article his reputation appears to have
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I realize I am late to this party, but it seemed there were some issues in the article that needed to be addressed; because these are important topics, I provide below the following rationale behind my bold edits; of course, I am very happy to have a constructive and good faith discussion of these
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Did
Griffith use Ă“ GrĂobhtha in Gaelic? Ă“ GrĂobhtha is the old spelling for the Clare surname Ă“ GrĂofa, anglicized Griffey or Griffin. Griffith is a welsh surname so Griffith has no Gaelic equivalent. Art Griffith would be the correct translation of his name to Gaelic, however if he himself used Ă“
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The entire anti-semitism section is problematic. One of the references leads to a page that no longer exists. Another leads to a
Project MUSE page that requires registration, which means the majority of readers will not be able to access it. The other references all lead to articles that repeat
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I am checking the section about the antisemitism of
Griffith. I have already removed some parts, as they were not in the given source or were incorrect. That gives me fear that the whole section might be unreliable. What I like is a thorough check of the given sources to see if the text tells the
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His writings on the
Limerick progrom and the Dreyfus case were appalling and as Maye notes Griffith's attitude at the time towards Jews is difficult because of what would happen roughly four decades later in Europe. However aside from what's mentioned in the article he didn't write all that much.
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Anyone know who is buried in the plot beside
Griffith's grave in Glasnevin? Dail Eireann debates in 1937 refer to the State paying #90 for the purchase and perpetual upkeep of a plot contiguous to the grave of the late President Griffith for a former member of his Ministry. The grave is unmarked.
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I believe both a stroke and a heart attack: Ulick O'Connor, in "Michael
Collins and the Troubles", says "For a week before, his doctors had confined Griffith to a room in St Vincent's Hospital. They had observed signs of what they thought might be a stroke of a sub-arachnoid nature. But it was
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article in August this year. He seems to be eager to make Altman more prominent in this article, but the fact that he was "widely known in the Dublin press as a successful salt merchant" is irrelevant, and the "it remains curious" wording is unencyclopaedic. I also think moving the sentence –
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First, I have added material from peer-reviewed publications on the topic. Second, because the Spectator is not a peer-reviewed publication, because there is plenty of peer-reviewed scholarship on this matter, and because it was not clear that Sebag Montefiore's claims added anything to this
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The remarks that are attributed to Griffith in Dermot Keogh's text on Jews in 20th Century Ireland (reference 7) are in actual fact written by Frank Hugh O'Donnell, writing under the pseudonym of 'Foreign Secretary' (24th Sept. 1899). O'Donnell, who was a member of the obtructionist group in
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Suffering from overwork and strain after the long and difficult negotiations with the British government, and the work involved in establishing the Free State government, Griffith entered St. Vincent's Nursing Home, Dublin, during the first week of August 1922, following an acute attack of
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1795:? None of the quotes in that section are famous. Neither of the quotes attributed to him are particularly illuminating. Neither of the quotes about him are sourced. There is no convention of having a "Quotes" section in biographies: there is none in
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run by Griffith was another part, the Sinn FĂ©in People's Bank another) and was strictly democratic. Griffith didn't want to be the leader but reluctantly took up the position of president of the party after Edward Martyn and John Sweetman.
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Well you removed the consensus version which contained the quotes from the article. The quotes were sourced and were indeed a positive addition to the article. Not all biographies are exactly like. The quotes section should be restored.
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Needs more on the Limerick pogrom because of its significant as the last anti-Jewish pogrom in the British Isles. Also it highlights a strain of ultra nationalism/fascism that you could argue is still present in modern Sinn Fein.
926:. He didn't go to Limerick and get personally involved. It would be interesting to mention Oliver St John Gogarty and William Bulfin, both close friends of Griffith's, who published anti-semitic material in 2 of his papers.
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Also as is noted at the end of the article he became friends with many Jews in Dublin such as Noyk and Solomons. Noyk and Solomons sister were both active supporters of the Irish Republic during the War of Independence.
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Griffith's attitude to Jews is dealt with by Colum Kenny is his fairly recent "The Enigma of Arthur Griffith" (Mercier, 2020). It's generally a very disappointing work but does address anti-Semitism in laborious detail
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Not bad, but it needs more data about the foundation of Sinn Fein; Griffith was the main but not the only founder. This article needs to at least allude to the presence of others written out of the history books.
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I think the separate section on Griffiths should be removed and the content merged into other sections. Having it as a separate section gives undue weight and implies Griffith was the Irish equivalent of
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This article claims he "was the founder and first leader of Sinn FĂ©in". I always thought he was the third leader as stated in the article on Sinn FĂ©in ("Founder (1905) and Third leader (1908 - 17)")
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Since there does not appear to have been anything earlier than 1997, I have re-written the section to get rid of the weasel wording and replace it with encyclopaedic, sourced content.
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Before sticking a template in an article, I think it would be useful to state your specific concerns on the talk page, and give editors or would-be editors a chance to address them.
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The Sinn FĂ©in movement developed around the propaganda of Griffith and he was as a result its leading light. The formal Sinn FĂ©in party was a part of the greater movement (the
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difficult to keep him quiet." This would suggest he had had a stroke followed by a fatal heart attack. The NYT report says heart failure while tying his shoelaces
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Also needs clarification of what "involved" in the pogrom means. He was certainly involved as an influential propagandist (the chauvinistic 'Citizen' in Joyce's
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presumably to adhere to a strict chronology – was unnecessary. I've reverted, but kept some relevant detail, the wikilink, and the book reference.
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skated free so far of the evidence of deeply racist, pro-slavery and pro-Confederate views as found in his 'Preface to John Mitchel's Jail Journal':
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some text that in my opinion is not relevant. I had removed it but the author immediately put it back, so time for more opinions on this addition.
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By the way, are you sure that the "Three Evil Influences" quote was Griffith himself, and not Frank Hugh O'Donnell? I only ask because it was me
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Fifteen months later and nobody has posted to disagree with this. I propose to edit this down significantly and remove the section heading.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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http://collection.europarchive.org/nli/20120917014345/http://irishartsreview.com/irisartsrevi2002/pdf/2006/25503509.pdf.bannered.pdf
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for his anti-semitism, which sadly was common in Europe at the time. Irish people were to a greater or lesser extent influenced by
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The whole narrative of the Pogrom has led to the consensus that it should be more accurately referred to as the Limerick Boycott.
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credible case for their inclusion, so I am taking them out again. If you're that attached to the quotes, I suggest you create an
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No such claim has been made in any biography of Griffith or history of early Sinn FĂ©in before then, or immediately afterwards.
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tonsilitis. He was confined to a room in St Vincent's by his doctors, who had observed signs of what they thought might be a
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is based on Griffith) who supported the boycott of Jewish businesses and printed all sorts of nastiness in his newspaper the
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to O'Donnell in 2019, and I can't imagine myself changing something like that without checking the source first.
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related topics on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
1460:. Also the charge is often repeated by the usual crowd in the IT, Sindo and publications such as the Spectator.
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https://web.archive.org/20110720062758/http://www.historyireland.com/volumes/volume6/issue1/reviews/?id=113342
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the consensus version. Saying they "were indeed a positive addition to the article" is not an indication of
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edit, which went undisputed for over a month, despite the page having plenty of watchers, therefore my edit
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The 'citizen' in Joyce's Ulysses is based on Michael Cusack, founder of the GAA, NOT Arthur Griffith.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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same as the source. Problem is that I do not have all the sources, so I hope on some assistance.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Simon Sebag Montefiore exposes the role of Sinn Fein's founder in an Irish persecution of Jews
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1811:. Please tell us what you think this section adds to the article that it otherwise lacks.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://cartlann.org/authors/john-mitchel/jail-journal/preface-by-arthur-griffith/
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page on Wikiquote, and add them there, as was done with Pearse, Collins and Dev.
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http://irishartsreview.com/irisartsrevi2002/pdf/2006/25503509.pdf.bannered.pdf
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Arthur Griffith and the Advanced-nationalist Press, Ireland, 1900-1922
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http://www.ricorso.net/rx/az-data/authors/m/Mitchel_J/xtras/xtra3.htm
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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important matters with editors who may see things differently.
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The charge of antisemitism has often been levelled at Griffith.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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Mid-importance biography (politics and government) articles
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Reference 20 says no such thing; on the contrary it says, "
1789:, can you explain why you restored the Quotations section
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The first sentence of the Antisemitic views section says,
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Can somebody make a confirmation and correction of this?
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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I see this was recently changed. There are sources for
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742:International relations
672:Northern Ireland portal
438:Politics and Government
2118:C-Class vital articles
1431:Griffith / Ă“ GrĂobhtha
1372:Check date values in:
1095:
516:
75:avoid personal attacks
1880:Antisemitism Part III
1078:
515:
475:WikiProject Biography
205:level-5 vital article
100:Neutral point of view
1674:regular verification
1566:regular verification
1551:to let others know.
1512:. If necessary, add
105:No original research
1664:After February 2018
1556:After February 2018
1547:parameter below to
1256:. P. Lang. p. 230.
1182:How does this look?
1118:"brain haemorrhage"
592:Irish Republicanism
579:Irish republicanism
551:Irish Republicanism
278:WikiProject Ireland
1778:Quotations section
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1801:Éamon de Valera
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2016:Billsmith60
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1120:, and also
1057:—Preceding
1030:86.42.74.57
1024:—Preceding
996:—Preceding
974:—Preceding
932:—Preceding
871:—Preceding
837:section on
834:On this day
148:free images
31:not a forum
2112:Categories
2073:The Banner
1963:The Banner
1725:Report bug
1311:0393316459
1262:0820400416
1240:References
1222:Salmanazar
1148:Salmanazar
855:Fergananim
1938:Maoltuile
1845:I made a
1708:this tool
1701:this tool
1606:Cheers. —
1600:this tool
1593:this tool
1396:link here
1320:cite book
1271:cite book
829:Main Page
493:Biography
433:Biography
208:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2095:Scolaire
1999:Scolaire
1864:Scolaire
1813:Scolaire
1764:Scolaire
1749:Scolaire
1714:Cheers.—
1516:cbignore
1483:Scolaire
1438:Zimmer79
1420:'fenian'
1365:citation
1162:O Fenian
1126:O Fenian
1104:Scolaire
1071:contribs
1063:Stevioli
1059:unsigned
1038:contribs
1026:unsigned
998:unsigned
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957:Huxley10
946:contribs
934:unsigned
885:contribs
873:unsigned
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1986:Ulysses
1910:notable
1638:my edit
1616::Online
1545:checked
1510:my edit
1414:Domer48
1098:Sources
1087:Stunion
938:Stunion
928:stunion
920:Ulysses
831:in the
619:on the
408:on the
319:on the
292:Ireland
283:Ireland
239:Ireland
210:C-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2065:added
1524:nobots
1374:|date=
1329:|nopp=
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216:scale.
126:Google
1016:Grave
197:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2099:talk
2078:talk
2067:here
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2020:talk
2003:talk
1968:talk
1942:talk
1922:talk
1899:talk
1868:talk
1847:bold
1833:talk
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1792:here
1768:talk
1753:talk
1549:true
1487:talk
1472:talk
1442:talk
1410:. --
1408:edit
1404:here
1402:and
1400:here
1378:help
1337:help
1331:and
1307:ISBN
1288:help
1282:and
1258:ISBN
1226:talk
1166:talk
1152:talk
1130:talk
1091:talk
1067:talk
1034:talk
1006:talk
984:talk
961:talk
942:talk
881:talk
581:and
482:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1855:how
1807:or
1682:RfC
1652:to
1574:RfC
1536:to
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611:Mid
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311:Top
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