788:"Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority". According to the consensus of the deletion vote Sherwin is notable and in that case a recognized authority on art due to his interviews and exhibit reviews. So I don't see why links to the Myartspace Blog would be blocked. If you feel that the external links on artist bios going to the interview they had with Sherwin is not needed feel free to remove them. They had been removed before by an anonymous person without a reason as to their removal. Edward Winkleman and Tyler Greene are both art bloggers as well that are respected and notable so I wonder if I will have the same problems once I contribute those bios? I learned really quick from my first experience that it is best to have everything worked out before contributing. I'm still very new to this so your suggestions are appreciated. (
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about. Because of that I thought that this was made in bad faith. You have to admit that your call for deletion implies that
Sherwin was directly involved with the two artists with no proof. The Sherwin post makes it clear that the work is by the two artist and opens saying that Stern contacted him with the content. Knowledge (XXG) is not a place for assumptions and it is not a place to flag bios without viewing deletion debates and discussion pages first. That defeats the purpose of past consensus. If you feel there is a problem with notability fine but flagging things on a whim without even bothering to read is not what Knowledge (XXG) is about. Knowledge (XXG) is not about what you know or think you know it is about consensus.
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There is no reason to expect every minor tagging to be discussed here. If an article is inadequately referenced then it will be tagged. There is no need for a consensus. You are making far too much out of a couple of minor tags. If I got upset every time one of my favourite articles got tagged I would be forever arguing, mostly with the 'bots (and that is rarely productive). I am going to remove the notability one now but I am leaving the one about inadequate references. If anybody can add some better references then they should just take that tag off. --
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fail, it makes news because it is such a rare phenomenon. Is there a discussion somewhere on
Knowledge (XXG) where the community has determined that Conservative Punk has a reputation for accuracy and fact checking or are the statements in traditional reliable sources that comment on Conservative Punks reliability? Either will satisfy me that my initial concern has been met. And then if necessary we can move to my second concern. --
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content of the CP post. If in CP Rizzuto had analyzed the
Sherwin blog post and from Rizzuto's analysis and commentary we pulled "a pretty good case" as a summary description of Rizzuto's analysis, I would be fine with that as encyclopedic content. However, "a pretty good case" is the sum total of Rizzuto's "analysis" in the post. To me, "a pretty good case" seems "a pretty bad case" for including something in an encyclopedia.--
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cited in
Juxtapoz, Hi Fructose, The Boston Globe and other notable sources that are listed. I think there were more before the vandal attack though. He is not just a blogger because his writings have been published and he has curated and co-curated exhibits. The blog is not just a blog it is also an opt-in e-zine. I think the problem is that people read "blogger" and automatically assume it is just another art blog.
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One can have a large following and not have a reputation for fact checking and accuracy; and can have small following and have a reputation for accuracy and fact checking. The NYT does indeed have a reputation for accuracy and fact checking and on those occasions when their accuracy and fact checking
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I don't have to dig anything up. Consensus has been made twice with keep. I'm going by the deletion debates and based on those it appears that notablility was established. He is a controversial writer and critic and it appears that this sort of thing happens everytime there is a controversy he writes
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Added a link showing
Sherwin on Aleksandra Mir's resume. Mir has been mentioned in several top art magazines, the New York Times, and has shown at the Tate, Saatchi's, and the Mary Boone Gallery as well as other important venues. Trying to track down other resumes and more information on Sherwin. I'm
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Looking over this again I wonder if that should be left out. While he may be an artist he is not necessarily notable because of his art. It appears that he might have had some regional success with his art. But he is notable because of his art writing and criticism not the creation of art itself. Or
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DanielRigal, I thought at first it was vandalism since this bio has been attacked before. When I found the
Knowledge (XXG) Art debate after viewing your contribs I had a better understanding. But I will say you should always assume good faith. It can get ridiculous on here at times. Sherwin has been
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I honestly don't know. That is why I tagged it as I did. If I thought he definitely was not notable I would have tagged the article for deletion. The general view on
Knowledge (XXG) seems to be that a blogger who has had a few passing mentions in mainstream media is not notable but a blogger who has
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Concerning the conflict of interest claim. I would like to point out that the
Sherwin article was nominated for deletion on the 6th of May and the result was keep. The article is extremely neutral in tone and several people have made changes to it in good faith. As for ELNO, it states the following
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I didn't ask for anything to be deleted except
Knowledge (XXG) Art, which you also agree should be deleted. I only asked for the other stuff to be looked at. Please do not misrepresent my position. The fact that the articles survived AfD does not mean that they should not be tagged for improvement.
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Back to the actual content of the article. IF the community has decided that
Conservative Punk has a reputation for accuracy and fact checking as a reliable source, which I am not sure we have, then my concerns in the edit summary would be met and we would move on to my second concern - the actual
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Since more authors are taking the blog route issues like this will become a problem on Knowledge (XXG). It establishes the idea that only mainstream media is reliable and there are many cases of mainstream media not being reliable. Is the New York Times not reliable because they have botched some
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and don't pull AGF please: "This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of contrary evidence." Curiously, I seem to have been able to fit both parts in the edit summary, as you can see from the edit summary for this post. However, that is hardly the
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I've deleted the first para. I think the second is valid, as Juxtapoz talks specifically about his interview. I'm posting the third para below, as ref doesn't mention Sherwin. If there is a ref that says he co-curated it, then that part can go back. I think the info about the judges would then be
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OK. I will try to do that. I will take the refimprove off and will try to come back a bit later and flag some specific problems. In general, my problem here is that there is too much reliance on non-RS sources. Bloggers and artists naturally form up into communities that enthusiastically support
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DanielRigal has flagged this bio as not notable. I've been citing Sherwin's interviews on Knowledge (XXG) because I thought the consensus was that his work as a critic and interviewer is notable. It has been a helpful resource for improving visual art Knowledge (XXG) articles. If you look at the
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eachother so RS sources are far better at gauging wider notability and status. I do appreciate that it can be frustrating writing about blogging precisely because it is possible for a blogger to be very influential in their blog communities and still fail to make much of a mark in RS sources. --
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If Sherwin is mentioned in X's biblio, then where X is in the list of interviewees, put a ref next to X's name which would be the page on X's site where the mention of Sherwin occurs. This is a good way to assert notability - the fact that noted artists consider it worthwhile to include his
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Should the Conservative Punk headline involving Sherwin's criticism of Shepard Fairey be added back? There is some confusion on whether Conservative Punk is self published or not. Not sure if it should be used or not because Conservative Punk did survive a deletion debate but it was as non
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coverage in mainstream media is notable. See if you can dig up references that show significant coverage. There is no need to remove your use of him as a source for other articles just yet but you might want to make sure that all your articles could survive without him if they had to.
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This isn't a blog in the normal sense of a one-man band without oversight, as Sherwin is on the staff of an edited site, myartspace, and uses the blog format to upload specific material, most often interviews, as part of the site. Most of the refs are not from the blogging community.
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reporting? There is a difference between just a blog and a media source that uses a blog format. Anyone can create a blog but not everyone can have a following. That goes for A and B in this case. Mashable and Techcrunch both have a blog format and they are cited all the time.
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I should reword that. I don't think Sherwin has openly supported Stuckism or Defastenism. He simply gave them a platform to speak from as he has done with other artists. He seems to be a very neutral person with a wide range of acceptance. I'm sure he has his motives though.
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I found his interviews on the Juxtapoz site and there was a video interview with Anthony Lister as well. I'll go hunt the links down again. Ty, do you think Sherwin could be considered a militant critic for supporting movements like Stuckism and Defastenism?
1425:: "Self-published sources may be used only in limited circumstances, with caution." The only use of the source is to say that it featured something. It is an entirely reliable source for what it has featured. It is not used to verify any other matter.
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As I recall I was advised by an admin to add that. But I think the mention of specific artists of note that Sherwin has interviewed and the link to the cv inclusion above that is enough to support the bio without that other info. I'm all for
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The area that looks a bit iffy to me is when it gets into describing other artists' achievements and qualifications in a kind of notability-by-association way (the three paragraphs starting at "The work of several of these artists ...").
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Also, the Lister video interview mentioned on Juxtapoz links back to myartspace, but as we know all of the interviews and videos can be found at myartspace.com/interviews. Is that something that should be included in external links?
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CP is used as a source to verify that Rizzuto has made a particular comment on Sherwin's article. As Rizzuto runs the CP site, again it is by definition a reliable source to verify that he has made a statement on the CP site about
1455:". That reason has been refuted. You have now raised an entirely different point. As to whether a "blogger", or site editor maybe, let's just say A, linking to another "blogger", actually a "Senior Contributing Editor"
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And I just noticed that the Silvey info does not work because the myartspace link is simply to his myartspace account. However, I did see him on the list of interviewed artists. It does not work for a ref though.
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Yep, that can go. It arose out of the AfD discussion, and was a slight misunderstood conflation of the need to show notability and provide sources, i.e. Roodouse1 thought he was following advice by inserting it.
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What about CVs and resumes for artists of note that can be found online? Aleksandra Mir for example? Should the mention of Sherwin in her biblio be considered a ref to show his importance as an interviewer?
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Here are some links from Juxtapoz. These topics are all picked by the editors of the site who are also editors of the magazine. Juxtapoz has a decent Alexa ranking and an insane following online.
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Should the fact that he interviewed the founder of Knowledge (XXG), Jimmy Wales, be included? He interviewed Wales for Myartspace after the Knowledge (XXG) Art controversy. See,
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I also found an article of controversy involving Sherwin but it was on a profile of some artist upset with him so I don't think that would be considered reliable would it?(
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As most of the text is referenced, the refimprove tag is not helpful. It would be better to remove that, and tag specific statements which you consider dubious with the
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More sources have been added to the article and the refs have been cleaned up to look better presentation wise. Does anyone have thoughts on how to improve it further? (
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exhibit at the McCormack Gallery in Chelsea. An accompanying art competition was judged by Jessica Morgan, curator of contemporary art at the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20080324012743/http://www.myjournalcourier.com:80/articles/art_17151___article.html/gallery_damsgaard.html
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Should the above be added because "recently interviewed on myartspace" would mean the interview he (or is it she?) had with Sherwin.
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CP is used as a source to verify that Sherwin's article is mentioned on the CP site, for which CP is by definition a reliable source
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article you will see that his work has been cited in Juxtapoz, The Boston Globe, and other notable sources. So which is it?
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1608:(unindent) Could you please specify the fact that you doubt CP is a reliable source for, as the only things I can see are:
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If artists have mentioned the Sherwin interview in their biblio that might be worth using as a ref (or an additional ref).
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I don't see any major problem with the article, and nothing has, as yet, been posted here to indicate any extant problems.
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Sherwin also writes for a site called FineArtStudioOnline. The FineArtViews blog there has interviews Sherwin did with
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I'll see what I can find. I know there is a video of the opening on youtube. Different wording might help.(
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Should this page be archived so that fresh conversation is easier to find? I'm not sure how to do it.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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My reasoning did not change, it had 2 parts - the first was easy to fit in the summary box. --
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http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=147850
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http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm/author_number/232/Janet-Evanovich
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If a ref says he's a militant critic, then it can be said. If not, it can't, as it would be
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and other art critics. Should this be mentioned? Does Sherwin still write for Myartspace?
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valid, as it is informative about his work and who he is collaborating with on projects.
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http://www.myjournalcourier.com/articles/art_17151___article.html/gallery_damsgaard.html
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The fact that a blogger linked to someone elses blog is encyclopedic content???? no. --
2004:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
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Some info on his Juxtapoz contributions. Are they essays, critiques or interviews etc?
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Re. video and Juxtapoz ref: it mentions myartspace, but not sherwin, so not relevant.
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http://blog.copyrightalliance.org/2008/10/a-portrait-of-an-artist-as-a-self-marketer/
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https://web.archive.org/web/20081122035702/http://conservativepunk.com/articles/1485/
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You can if you want. I don't personally think it needs to, but if you would like to,
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It seems like a useful third party source. What is the URL of the controversial one?
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http://beinart.org/modules/Word-Press/2008/03/26/interview-with-jeremy-geddes/
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I added information about the Wales interview and organized the article.
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is that info to be considered general information about him? Thoughts?
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I also found that Sherwin has interviewed authors. Janet Evanovich,
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and Steven Zevitas, Publisher and Editor of New American Paintings.
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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If info is in a ref, then make use of it, as I've done here.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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In 2007, Sherwin co-curated the opening of the Myartspace
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It is probably a good thing that we are not psychic. :-)
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I don't see any problem with this particular use of it.
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Meant to post that here. I added the CP feature back.
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Could this be used? Did some searches and found this
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48:. Please replace this template with a more specific
2014:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1028:"myartspace.com New York, New York 2007 Exhibition"
1825:Should the part about being an artist be removed?
1805:I'm not sure where I should put this info though.
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2000:This message was posted before February 2018.
1948:http://www.conservativepunk.com/articles/1485/
713:Preview: Xiaoqing Ding & Jason D'Aquino
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1721:No reason why not. Add it if you want.
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573:00:52, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
28:It is requested that an
1845:External links modified
1766:Writing for other sites
1072:explains how to do it.
985:New York, New York 2007
557:23:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
540:04:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
342:WikiProject Visual arts
107:, 1 November 2008, see
187:This article is rated
57:Free Image Search Tool
50:media request template
24:
254:WikiProject Biography
191:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
23:
2012:regular verification
1030:, ArtCal. Retrieved
487:WikiProject Blogging
365:visual arts articles
67:and other web sites.
2002:After February 2018
1981:parameter below to
1579:The Red Pen of Doom
1522:The Red Pen of Doom
1488:The Red Pen of Doom
1443:The Red Pen of Doom
46:improve its quality
44:in this article to
2056:InternetArchiveBot
2007:InternetArchiveBot
1468:The New York Times
334:Visual arts portal
281:biography articles
193:content assessment
117:, 6 May 2008, see
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2005:
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1993:Sourcecheck
1772:Saul Ostrow
1696:—Preceding
1237:DanielRigal
1169:DanielRigal
1127:DanielRigal
1122:significant
989:Tate Modern
356:Visual arts
347:visual arts
306:Visual arts
189:Start-class
2076:Categories
2063:Report bug
1832:SunRiddled
1807:SunRiddled
1776:SunRiddled
1746:SunRiddled
1616:something.
1403:consensus.
1016:References
1001:Roodhouse1
941:Roodhouse1
865:Roodhouse1
790:Roodhouse1
768:Roodhouse1
733:Roodhouse1
666:Roodhouse1
647:Roodhouse1
582:Roodhouse1
565:Roodhouse1
532:Roodhouse1
119:discussion
109:discussion
34:photograph
2046:this tool
2039:this tool
1966:dead link
1902:dead link
1070:this page
272:Biography
218:Biography
157:libellous
2052:Cheers.—
1710:contribs
1702:FlapFlip
1698:unsigned
1686:Question
1656:Artblogs
1563:Artblogs
1405:Artblogs
1362:Artblogs
1272:Artblogs
1146:Artblogs
1106:Artblogs
1055:Artblogs
1049:Archive?
498:Blogging
492:inactive
466:inactive
461:Blogging
421:inactive
395:inactive
95:deletion
42:included
1979:checked
1970:tag to
1906:tag to
1858:my edit
1500:point.
1079:delanoy
1987:failed
1962:Added
1898:Added
195:scale.
74:Upload
65:Flickr
1460:MSNBC
1453:WP:RS
1203:tag.
1032:8 May
30:image
1983:true
1836:talk
1811:talk
1780:talk
1750:talk
1706:talk
1660:talk
1567:talk
1409:talk
1366:talk
1276:talk
1241:talk
1198:fact
1173:talk
1150:talk
1131:talk
1120:had
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1086:adds
1059:talk
1035:2008
1005:talk
945:talk
869:talk
863:it.(
826:talk
794:talk
772:talk
737:talk
670:talk
651:talk
586:talk
569:talk
536:talk
261:and
115:Keep
105:Keep
55:The
2020:RfC
1997:).
1985:or
1956:to
1946:to
1936:to
1926:to
1916:to
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146:BLP
59:or
40:be
36:of
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
