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xenarthrans...", you may need to indicate that this was an early idea that has since changed. Otherwise, it seems to get stuck in my head, but then you talk about multituberculates, which from my understanding are possibly somewhere between Theria and
Monotremata (and not closely related to xenarthrans), and I start to get confused. Sorry if I'm making this difficult.
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correct and should stay in my opinion, but they only work because of they are procumbent. Labial/lingual is really the distinction we are looking for here. The enamel is on the labial surface in both cases. What about "The enamel band is restricted to the lower (labial) side in the lower incisors and the upper (labial) side in the upper incisors"? --
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Well, the article discusses a family called "Ferugliotheriidae" and a genus called "Ferugliotherium", so I don't see any harm in clarifying whether other similar terms used in the article refer to one of those, or instead refer to something else (especially if the other similar terms are used in the
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I've added some clarification on multituberculates and xenarthrans. Multituberculates I think are either sister to therians or to monotremes plus therians (we're not sure which of the two it is). Xenarthrans, of course, are placentals, although the discovery of sudamericids led some to resurrect the
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Is there a rough cladogram for some of this? I guess I'm having a hard time following some of this since you're telling the story of how they thought everything was related, and inevitably it changes. Where you say "Bonaparte considered the gondwanatheres to be probably most closely related to the
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Ah, I see what you mean. Using "labial" has the problem that the term hasn't been defined yet where I discuss the incisors, so adding it would make for a cluttered sentence. I used a different wording that explains it's labial for both the uppers and lowers, but avoids too much jargon; see what you
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Sorry, I meant distal as in away from the body (like an appendage) not distal in the dental sense. Both uses of distal are wrong. I think mesial would mean that it is located between the two incisors and distal refers to the sides that border the diastema. Both dorsal/upper and ventral/lower are
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I see crown height in the intro, but perhaps the basic shape (i.e. rectangular) of the molariform teeth could be included there. That plus crown height (to me) sets the basic stage for diet, etc. in a way that the comparison to multituberculates doesn't. That comparison is great for the bladelike
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Not everything that is correct needs to be mentioned explicitly. They can be called ferugliotheriid gondwanatheres, but also ferugliotheriid animals, or ferugliotheriid mammals, or whatever. I know that we have guidelines for writing a good lead, but I fail to see how those guidelines would mandate
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Regarding nomenclature, I hope it's correct to say this: "Members of the
Ferugliotheriidae family are called ferugliotheriid gondwanatheres or simply ferugliotheriids." Also, I'd recommend splitting the lead paragraph by merely putting in a paragraph break before describing the particular fossils.
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Ultimately, this and the point above it are complicated because you almost need a general "evolution" article for all the groups involved. (Personally, I'm finding such specialty topic articles to be helpful for bringing information about multiple species together into a single article on a common
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It's mesial, not distal, I believe. The source does say ventral for the lowers and dorsal for the uppers, which I've "translated" as lower and upper, but I agree that that is not necessarily the clearest way of saying it. Perhaps "front side" is better for both the lowers and uppers; I'm not sure.
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when it was discovered in 1986; first proposed for all gondwanatheres in 1990; canonical by 1993; controversial in 1999; revitalized in 2009; now probably the leading contender); and that we have no idea what on Earth they are (canonical since 1999). Within those three strands, there are of course
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Part of it is placing them in context, since sudamericids are (probably) feruglios' closest relatives and therefore comparisons between the two are significant. Moreover, the history of sudamericids and ferugliotheriids has been intertwined so much that it's hard to cover the one comprehensively
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I think saying that "The enamel band is restricted to the lower side in the lower incisors and the upper side in the upper incisors" is a little confusing. There may not be a better way of saying it. You have to remember that these are procumbent and then envision what upper and lower means.
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Maybe it's just me, but sudamericids seem to get a lot of mention in this article, which felt a little off because they're not in the family. I don't know... given their close/uncertain relations, maybe it's appropriate. I just thought I'd share my concern in case someone else brings it up.
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I think the family authority needs to be included. I'd do it myself, but I find it so odd that it's not there that I wonder if it was left off intentionally. Even though the text indicates that the family was named at the same time as the genus, the taxobox is there for a quick reference.
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Finally, I think the last paragraph in the article is the paragraph that will be most interesting to the widest readership. But I wonder if those readers will get that far. Could a summary of that move to the introduction? Is there an earlier placement in general appropriate for this?
1655:(Bonaparte, J. F. 1986a. Sobre Mesungulatum houssayi y nuevos mamiferos cretácicos de Patagonia, Argentina. Actas IV Congreso Argentino de Paleontologia y Bioestratigrafia (Mendoza) 2:48-61)? I haven't been able to find it yet. I'm particularly interested in the etymology of
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I prefer to keep description out of "Taxonomy". It's described in a single sentence there, though; perhaps I should add more (the article on the tooth itself has more discussion) but I'm also hesitant to write too much about this very tenuous record of a ferugliotheriid.
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thread.) I'm not saying that you have to do this. As more information is discovered and published, maybe someday such an article will be merited. For now, I'll let this pass and see what other reviewers think when you take this to FAC. –
734:"A diastema (gap) is present between the premolar and the incisor that would have been located in front of it." – The "it" at the end of the sentence is ambiguous. It carries over from the previous sentence (the fourth premolar), right?
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Same as what I said above about an evolution article. Again, I'm not saying we need such an article right now, and nor will I hold this article back. Maybe other reviewers at FAC will have some informative thoughts on the matter.
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Otherwise, one might imagine an enamel band (somehow) running near the gumline. Would saying that the enamel band is on the distal surfaces of the incisors be better or would that just lead to envisioning enamel-tipped incisors?
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This is just an opinion, but the red-linked "wear" should probably be spelled out in the text as "tooth wear" rather than just linked to it. It's a real shame that it's a red-link... I may need it soon when I write about
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splitting up that paragraph. As it is now, the first paragraph gives a general taxonomic overview of what ferugliotheriids are, the second describes their anatomy, and the third their ecology (as far as that is known).
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Otherwise, it looks really good. The article meets GAN requirements, as far as I can see, but since you may take this on to FAC, I'll hold off promoting until we've worked out the details above. Great job!
660:. It's true that the frequent changes in classification are confusing. There have basically been three major hypotheses: that they are xenarthrans or something close to them (proposed for sudamericids when
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has special requirements for the lead paragraph. This is obviously an extremely informative and well-researched article, but the lead paragraph needs to address the general public rather than specialists.
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A second read through and I think you're right. I'm just used to looking for the target of the pronouns within the same sentence, particularly when dealing with prepositions and (in)direct objects. –
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It's between the incisor and premolar, so in front of the premolar. In re-reading the sentence, I don't think it's ambiguous, but I suppose we could substitute "the premolar" for "it".
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was discovered in 1984, argued against in 1990, disproven by 1993; no one believes this any more); that they are multituberculates or something close to them (proposed for
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I added the category "Cretaceous mammals". The category "Gondwanatheres" was already there, but my understanding is that not all
Gondwanatheres are Cretaceous mammals.
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FA status. It's a bit short for a FA article, but I suspect there is almost nothing known or conjectured about these animals that isn't already in the article. --
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Great work guys! Nice to have an unapologetically scholarly article up once in a while and make it feel like an encyclopedia (not least to offset those recurring
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If you have a reliable source that says they were named after Egidio
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Sorry. I'm currently in a bad place for interlibrary loan (begging and borrowing from friends for obscure stuff). I assume it is named after
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minor differences, such as exactly what multis they are related to, and there have been some alternative proposals that gained little traction.
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I have a (far from ideal) reference for the genus name (see the section above), but none for the specific name. I suppose it's probably after
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688:"...described a single enigmatic tooth..." – Can you explain briefly what was enigmatic about it, or would that complicate things too much?
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I'm always late to the party (when I make it at all), but I had a few suggestions regarding FAC. It looks as if that has now closed.
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without also discussing the other. However, perhaps there are specific places where I have gone overboard with sudamericid material.
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premolar, but I'm not sure too many people know what the rest of the cheek teeth in multis look like without looking it up.
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I will be taking on this review. The article looks good at a glance, but I'll have specific comments shortly. –
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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and doesn't mean "wild glue beast". We, of course, need to verify that before it could go into the article. --
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lead). And I see no reason to exclude from this article the person whom all of these things are named after:
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It's defined somewhere in the middle of the "Taxonomy" section. Possibly the definition should be repeated.
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It may be worth defining (or linking to something explaining) p4 for the nonspecialist.
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I've added the species names to the relevant sentence; does that clarify the matter?
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I moved it up to the beginning of the section and added a few words to the lead.
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Sorry. I missed it. It's already defined at the first usage as it should be. --
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Glad to see you back, Aranae. I've responded to each of your comments above.
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Oversight on my part; I've now added
Bonaparte, 1986 as the family authority.
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Thanks. It's not as good a source as I should like, but I've added it to
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Did you know ... that blade-like teeth in the extinct mammalian family
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was in an obscure publication that I haven't been able to locate.
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Also, do you perhaps have access to the original description of
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http://vertebratepaleo.com/downloads/GondwanatheriaThesis.pdf
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now contained two species. Perhaps that could be clarified.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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625:: As I said, it looks good. Just a few minor details:
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This certainly will go to FAC. Thanks for the review.
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208:June 22, 2011
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201:Did you know?
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1731:-gasms). --
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79:please do so
63:
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45:please do so
34:
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1616:Overall, I
1354:See page 46
1000:word choice
728:Description
568:transcluded
1977:Categories
1964:Report bug
1854:Report bug
1445:Vucetichia
1241:Categories
1033:verifiable
675:Paratheria
662:Sudamerica
521:Authorship
507:GA toolbox
205:column on
71:good topic
36:identified
1947:this tool
1940:this tool
1837:this tool
1830:this tool
1223:Pass/Fail
1104:(focused)
580:Reviewer:
544:Templates
535:Reviewing
500:GA Review
195:Main Page
1953:Cheers.—
1843:Cheers.—
1744:contribs
1657:Feruglio
629:Taxonomy
623:Comments
549:Criteria
265:FA-class
181:Promoted
162:Promoted
1877:my edit
1767:my edit
1734:Elmidae
1618:support
1560:think.
1427:Added.
1282:WP:Lead
1262:perhaps
1217:Overall
1004:fiction
976:(prose)
775:sifakas
481:on the
376:on the
349:Mammals
294:Mammals
197:in the
121:Process
1698:Ucucha
1680:Aranae
1661:Ucucha
1638:Ucucha
1622:Aranae
1602:Ucucha
1576:Aranae
1562:Ucucha
1547:Aranae
1532:Ucucha
1509:Aranae
1495:Ucucha
1474:Aranae
1460:Ucucha
1429:Ucucha
1378:Ucucha
1339:Ucucha
1302:Ucucha
1266:Ucucha
1174:images
1149:stable
1147:It is
1125:policy
1085:It is
1026:It is
1006:, and
996:layout
967:It is
948:review
932:Ucucha
875:Ucucha
842:Ucucha
840:Done.
825:Ucucha
823:Done.
799:Ucucha
783:Ucucha
740:Ucucha
694:Ucucha
679:Ucucha
641:Ucucha
339:mammal
271:scale.
143:Listed
124:Result
67:series
1260:Nor,
1008:lists
950:(see
919:talk
893:talk
862:talk
757:talk
712:talk
612:talk
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570:from
224:molar
29:is a
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1030:and
992:lead
990:for
956:here
952:here
118:Date
69:, a
1921:RfC
1891:to
1811:RfC
1781:to
988:MoS
473:Low
368:Low
1979::
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1067:OR
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1012::
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978::
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946:GA
909:–
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