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Italian, and I understand their deletion. But two of the books that
Melchior2006 deleted, which I had added on 12 April 2021, are written in English and purchased by me in bookstores in the U.S. in recent years. What makes them obscure, and why is obscurity a reason for deletion? Some readers of Knowledge may be familiar with the popular books on St. Francis and would appreciate knowing of more obscure ones. The two books I added that Melchior2006 deleted are *
1223:'s biography of Francis, which is knowingly more focused on the theological significance of Francis' life. While the idea did not start with Chesterton, I would suspect the grouping of 12 individuals in order to found a new religious order is reminiscent of the 12 disciples of Jesus. Thompson, however, calls into question this accuracy, suggesting it could have been as little as 2 companions with Francis considering the words of one of Francis' companions:
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no more than take the sources available to form a description of
Francis' life, and I agree that Thompson's book is one of many that should be used. All of this is motivated by a lecture by Thompson I watched, which can be found on YouTube (see "Francis of Assisi: Lost Between Myth and History" given at the University of Chicago in 2013).
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1304:. I haven't put them back in "Further Reading," because, if I did, I wouldn't have the space in my explanation for what I have just written. But, unless someone replies in the next few days and persuades me not to put them back, I will do so and will refer to these comments as my explanation for why I put them back.
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thanks for your note and the background explanation. I think it is important to keep the further reading recommendations simple, otherwise the wiki article becomes a clearing house for everything that has been published about
Francis, and that is a lot. We can never keep up with the new title. People
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I refer to this edit: 07:22, 29 May 2021 Melchior2006 talk contribs 67,891 bytes −961 →Further reading: obscure works deleted, also the medieval references, because the bibliographic info was insufficient (also overspecialized) Some of the books that
Melchior2006 deleted are written in Latin or
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I am not an authoratative enough scholar to commit these changes, considering I have no experience with scholarly literature on his life, but I second the prospect of an actual
Franciscan (descriptive rather than pertaining to the order) scholar editing this biography. Of course, these changes can do
1214:
I am hoping to revive this discussion reworking the biographical sections of
Francis' life (see above "Early Life Section") with this comment. It appears to my untrained eye that the challenge of biographically describing Francis of Assisi is a long and historical problem that is slowly being
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The problems with this "biography" are so many and so serious that I don't know where to begin. First, the "scholarly" literature on which it is based is of no historical value whatsoever. It consists mostly of an ancient on-line encyclopedia article (Ignatius Brady), a popular spiritual
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The bibliography, however, lists soem of the good recent scholarship (along with a lot of pious junk). Someone needs to get a copy of
Thompson's _Francis of Assisi: A New Biography (Cornell UP), probably the best historical reconstruction available, and rewrite the whole seciton.
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This article is a joke. Just to give an example, Francis never purported to have received the stigmata. The claim was masterminded after his death by his friend Elias, a brilliant marketeer of dubious character (see e.g. Chiara
Frugoni,
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Thanks for the explanation; I will not put the two books back, even though my inclination is that more is better, although I agree that the goal should not be to include "everything that has been published about
Francis."
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can find the books you mentioned on amazon. The 28 scenes seem to be one one of a thousand similar titles. And the
Fioretti (little flowers) are already listed in the article under
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overcome by scholarship like Thompson's book. Take this quote from the founding of the order section of this page: "He then led eleven followers to Rome to seek permission from
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has been repeatedly adding unsourced claims. Despite being reverted by several editors, he has continued re-adding the same claims, and is already beyond
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Of course, the stigmata are simply a legendary invention. The article is in part a poor hagiographic story. Is has to be changed.
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OK, thanks. People shopping for books about Francis can find the titles on amazon or elsewhere. --
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Francis of Assisi, The Little Flowers (Fioretti), London, 2012. limovia.net ISBN 978-1-78336-013-0
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1286:(Translated by H.E. Manning), Old Saybrook, CT: Konecky & Konecky, 2005.
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The Story of St. Francis of Assisi: In Twenty-Eight Scenes
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to found a new religious order." The citation used is
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Whole article section on Francis's life needs rewrite
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