Talk:Hanukkah/Archive 1

2912:. But these are not the internationally recognised borders of Israel. The image suggests that the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem are integral parts of the state of Israel, whereas this is subject to international disputes. To present these borders as undisputed facts, is to lessen the quality of information provided by Knowledge. I therefore decided to remove this image. In a (very swift) reaction by a Knowledge administrator, he accused me of "blatant vandalism". That is absurd. I'm in the habit of using Knowledge as a source of factual, unbiased information. Ocasionally, I make a small contribution to try to enhance the factual accuracy of an article. To enhance an article is not vandalism. It is what I thought Knowledge was all about. There are undoubtedly many images available that could be used in these articles that depict the borders of Israel, while clearly marking the disputed Palestinian Territories and the Golan Heights as disputed entities. Why would an unbiased encyclopedia, out of of all the available options, choose an image that is provided by the Israeli Foreign Ministry? If it is Knowledge's standard policy to discourage user participation in this agressive way, then in my view, it fails in its stated purpose. -- 2937:

confused, and I don't believe many people do. My objection is meant to enhance the factual accuracy of the articles involved. Why would Knowledge, that strives to provide complete information, accept pieces of information that it knows to be incomplete, and therefore flawed? In addition, I would like to point out the interest that the Israeli government (being the source of this image) may have in presenting the borders in this way. Now, I realize that this difference of opinion arises out of a relatively unimportant and unharmful issue ("Where was the Hasmonean Kingdom?"). But it is precisely through relatively unharmful side-issues that a certain party in the long run can effectively influence peoples views of reality and their political opinions. I wouldn't recommend any other government or political/military group as your independent source of information either. Why not keep it as neutral as possible? Isn't that what encyclopedias are for? --

1626:

called "Lights": "Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to the festival." (The Antiquities of the Jews, William Whiston translation, Hendrickson Publishers, Book 12 Chapter 7 Paragraph 7) NOTE: Josephus lived AD 37-c100 and wrote this in the time frame AD c90-100. (It seems most likely that Hanukkah was called "Lights" in the time of Josephus because, according to 2 Maccabees 1:18ff, it was timed to coincide with the appearance of miraculous fire used by Nehemiah to

216:-- This article and its treatment of minority view of Hanukkah is a clear example of the fact that Knowledge is often not a reference about what is, but about what certain people want to be. It is not only saturated with propagandistic opinion, but at times (as in this article) eliminates factual data (which helps present a more complete, objective article about that subject) in favor of the one-sided propaganda. Hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Christians (especially Messianic Jews) celebrate Hanukkah. And why shouldn't they? The story of it is in their traditional Scriptures. This article at one time presented that information. But what seems to me as bigotry and hostility toward 1406:

article be proven? When transliterating the word, you shouldn't mesh around how it actually sounds, or the spelling. You pronounce it just as you would if you read the word in it's native language (in this case Hebrew), with a chet, not a hey. "Gmail" only gets 140 million hits on google, whereas "Google Mail" gets 681 million hits. Although "Google Mail" is not the correct term for the email service, it gets more hits and is technically the equivilant (the "G" in "Gmail" stands for "Google" anyways, does it not?). This is the same thing, "Chanukah" might not get as many hits as the alternative "Hanukkah", but it is the ACCURATE spelling, such as "Gmail" is vs. "Google Mail".

2923:

know where the jordan valley is than where the green line is. Changing the map to have the red line snake around the green line would be much harder to understand. I would not object to having the green line in addition to the israel-jordan border line also, but I think it would be a bit silly. If you really think that people will get so confused by the red line you can change the caption to say explictly that the red line indicates the area of the modern state of Israel including the Golan Heights, the west bank and gaza. Removing the image just because you dissagree is not productive in any way and that is why your actions were labeled as vandalism.

1911:

gained unusual importance with many assimilated secular Jewish families in twentieth century America, who did not consider themselves religious, yet wanted an alternative to Christmas celebrations that often coincide with Hanukkah." The recent amplification of Hanukkah is not limited to assimilated secular Jewish families. Christmas in America (and I suspect elsewhere in the West) has become an overpowering commercialized cultural steam roller that is alarming even to many Christians and I think quite a few observant Jewish households use their Hanukkah celebration to re-channel all that cultural pressure and are very grateful for its existence. --

119:

personally think should be. The fact is, whether we like it or not, Chanukah is celebrated by more people than just main-stream Jews, but also by "messianic Jews" and by many evangelical Christians. That is what IS. The celebration IS celebrated by more people than the limited group you want to include. Therefore, including encyclopedic information about the Chanukah celebrations of those who celebrate Chanukah is not only appropriate; it is imperative. If you want to help write restrictive articles and explanations about Chanukah, this is not the place to do it. I will restore the reference (though you should be the one to do it).

1933:

system I have employed (on the three brachot, al hanissim, and ma-oz tzur) to be the easiest to read. A few differences with the system previously employed on the site: kafs and kufs are transliterated as "k", never "q"; chets and chafs are always "ch", not "kh"; hyphens denote when two adjactent vowels should be separated; apostrophes are used for the "uh" sound in words like v'higiyanu; there is no use of double consonants (kk, nn, ll etc.). If you want to discuss what system is the best, then go through wikipedia ensuring consistency, i'm up for it....

2392:

this should be mentioned. Second, are you denying that religions don't have POV beliefs? It would be hard to classify a group as a religion, if there were not biased points of view. I'm not saying the relvant events never happened (a different matter entirely)- I am pointing out that to call something an unambiguous "miracle," is highly POV. To call anything a miracle is to state that there is no alternate explanation beyond the devine. Doing so, is baised to the POV of religion.

2648:- Thinking anachronistically can sometimes be erroneous. Everyone would speak and write in Greek at the time, even the Roman Emperors, that didn't imply any Hellenization and no-one speaks of "Hellenized Romans". Hellenization was primarily about religion and secondarily about language. I've never read about "Hellenized Jewish" in Israel, Antiochus IV was the only Greek ruler who showed anti-semitic behaviour and tried to Hellenize the Jews, but he failed. 31: 434:

wholeheartedly that Hanukkah is a much better alternative — not so much for associations with Christian holidays as for the reason that h- is less likely to be seriously messed-up in pronunciation by those who don't already know the word ("Tsha-nuke-ah" doesn't quite do it for me...) — and also because the double -kk- is closer to the Hebrew spelling. Let's wait a bit and see what other people think — and hope they agree with us... :) --

3448:

Firstly, in the introduction, the reader is informed that the sound at the beginning of the word is not present in English, but the perfectly legitimate English word "loch" is used to illustrate what this sound is! Now I accept that many English speakers use /k/ for "loch", but plenty retain /x/ in their phonemic inventory. Furthermore, some varieties of English make extensive use of the sound, with

2582:

civil war has nothing to do with the Maccabean revolt, I don't know where you people are getting this about Hellenized Jews. Even if there were Hellenized Jews at the time, they wouldn't be considered Jewish but Greek by their contemporaries, and the Maccabean revolt wouldn't be a "revolt" but another thing (an instigation of civil war maybe). Either way it would lose a great part of its importance.

1535:

amongst both Sephardim and Ashkenazim, the claim that it is "strictly MH" is not quite correct either — the word chanukiah is in fact a fairly traditional term amongst Balkan/Ottoman Sephardim and made its way from their Judíospanyol ("Ladino") and Hebrew into modern Hebrew. For an example of actual use of the term chanukah for documentation, see

2707:

that the priests were no longer intent upon their service at the altar. Despising the sanctuary and neglecting the sacrifices, they hastened to take part in the unlawful proceedings in the wrestling arena after the call to the discus, disdaining the honors prized by their fathers and putting the highest falue upon Greek forms of prestige."

467:. The ones which don't seem to be linked to the Jewish Holiday template; I've edited that too, but apparently it doesn't update those instantly. I hope everyone is OK with this change. It does look a lot better particularly given the transliteration. Note that in the list of alternative names I gave them in the Google order. 2714:

this is attested in II Maccabees (just before the section I quoted, the author makes reference to Jews wearing the 'Greek hat', and to the high priest founding a Gymnasium and turning Jerusalem into the polis of Antioch-at-Jerusalem). Worshipping the Greek gods was a part of Hellenism, but not its main focus.

3452:

very commonly realising what for most of us is phonemic /k/ as or . So, if we are talking about "ch" as in "loch" here, we should not be so crass as to suggest that the sound "does not exist in the English language", as the article currently does. Are we talking about though, or something else? The

2955:

borders. Don't like it because it shows that Jews were there beforehand? Awwww...too bad. Keep your point of view out of this, you hypocrite. I do not need to hold a point of view on this issue to see your blatant bias. So let's "keep it as neutral as possible" isn't that what encyclopedias are for?

2391:

First, I don't know that Judaism, "teaches" the viewpoint that this event was a miracle. To make a statement like this, you need to address the POV of non-orthodox denominations, and of secular Jews as well. If, for example, the reform movement posits that the events are symbollic or metaphoric, then

2279:

Someone deleted my edit and put that "(Only ritually purified olive oil was permissible for lighting the Menorah in the Temple.)." I argue in the name of Rabbi Garfield shlita: This is untrue. It was preferable to have purified oil, but because of the unavailability of pure oil, it was not necessary.

2241:

I had not been sure as to whether the Yiddish full names of the symbols on the dreidel came first or the Hebrew understanding of "a great miracle happened there". The former relates to the game, while the latter relates to the miracle of Chanukkah, but the latter is of somewhat contorted grammar that

1973:

The American Heritage dictionary has "Hanukkah" (two k's, one n) as the main entry, mentions only "Hanukah" and "Chanukah" as alternatives, and does not provide enteries for them. Merriam-Webster online has "Hanukkah" and "Chanukah" as entries and lacks "Hanukah." Neither has "Hannukah," two n's, one

1932:

Perhaps this is a discussion that should be had over the entire spectrum of Jewish articles, but I've made some changes to the transliteration system used on this page. As someone who has for most of his life relied on transliteration (becuase my hebrew-reading ability is not fast enough), I find the

1746:

Hanukkah as a "substitute for Christmas" is a real aspect of the holiday as celebrated in the U. S., whether or not there are some who wish it were not. Hanukkah-as-a-substitute-for-Christmas can symbolize inclusion and mutual tolerance, as when a workplace or public area includes a menorah alongside

1375:

English Knowledge picks article names based on the most common English spelling, not the most accurate transliteration. Hanukkah seems to be the most common. It gets 5 million Google hits, vs. just under 2 million for Chanukah. Also it is Knowledge policy that where there are two acceptable spellings

393:

A user posted in the article that the Gregorian dates we are listing are offset forward by one day. I assume it is because his/her calendar program lists the date of Erev Chanukah, which seems more correct to me, but uncommon among most Gregorian calendars. Assuming that calendar program is accurate,

350:

Incorrect. I am not sure what you define as "legitimate," but there is no mainstream Jewish organization that recognizes Messianics as a "branch" or "denomination" of the greater Jewish Movement. Additionally, Zionism has nothing to do with religious identification. You can be a Messianci (Jew for

150:

Chad: I think you're short-shrifting Yehuda on this one (perhaps because he has an obviously Jewish name?), and I'd like to educate you a bit on this. This isn't a matter of "oh, I don't like them" - in that case, we'd be ripping down more than just MJ. Messianic Judaism (badly-named - all Judaism is

2254:

Here's a question: What is the meaning of the elaboration behind the different uses of shin and pey? it seems first that this, albeit tiny piece of the article is writtng from a non-NPOV, probably israeil, due to its use of the words here and there (perhaps a better description would be first person

1551:

In modern Hebrew the word Menorah ususally is not associated with the holiday Chanukah. Rather it refers to the candelabra from the temple (Beit haMikdash) which is refered to in the story of Chanukah. It differs from a Chanukiah in that it has only seven candles (one per day of the week), while the

1534:

The form חנוכה with this particular meaning is in fact traditionally used amongst North-African Sephardim and at least some Mizrachim — and it is also not uncommon amongst Western European ("Spanish and Portuguese") Sephardim either. Regarding the form chanukiah, which is currently rapidly spreading

1139:

is both not the most common, but is a common mistake: common mistakes are often made as redirects in Knowledge, but not article titles. I acutally don't know what is most used in the general public: in the Ashkenazi Jewish public it is probably "Chanukkah" or "Chanukah" and sometimes "Hanukkah" etc.

2713:

This is not confusion with the Great Revolt, and 'Hellenism' was primarily about language and lifestyle, not religion. A Hellnized person spoke Greek, participated in Greek cultural life, wore greek clothes, lived in a Greek polis, and went to the gymnasium to compete in athletic contests - all of

2706:

It's also clear that there were Hellenized Jews in prominent positions in Judea before and during the revolt. II Maccabees 4:13-15 "There was such an extreme of Hellnization and increas in the adoption of foreign ways because of the surpassing wickeness of Jason, who was ungodly and no high priest,

2139:

is not stylistically, nor historically correct.there would be a complex list, which recent scholars tend to defining as intra-Jewish conflict between Jewish communities with varied positions on the value and place of Hellenistic culture and the response to the process of the Hellenization in Judea.

1910:

I think he has a point tho. According to TB Shabbat 21b, it's the miracle of the oil that is the central reason for the holiday, not the military victory or triumph of Judaism's spiritual values, so the oil story should have mention in the intro. Also I'm not completely comfortable with "..Hanukkah

1734:

Naturally, there are both Christians and Jews who would like to limit Christmas and Hanukkah to include only the pure, strictly religious portions of the phenomenon. That is their prerogative and that is one point of view. Unlike Easter and Passover, there are no links between the religious aspects

1295:

I agree... Hanukkah is a total butchery of the actual word and I hate it. I don't mind it people pronounce it with a "hu" sound, but it really is spelt Chanukah, not Hanukkah. It's like taking the word מצווה and translating it into Mitvah because there isn't technically a letter that pronounces the

1249:

I think it should be written with a "CH" because the word chanukah is not pronounced with an H sound in front. its the rough cha sound most non-hebrew speakers have trouble pronouncing. if you dont put in a CH, then when writting, the H in Hanukkah should have a dot underneath it indicating the cha

445:

I agree. Chanukah is unfamiliar to many. The New Oxford Dictionary gives "Hanukkah" and lists "Chanukkah" as an alternate spelling. All three of the external links to this article give "Hanukkah" including the Jewish encyclopaedia. In Google: Hanukkah 1,680,000; Chanukah 950,000; Hannukah 237,000;

220:

religious views has resulted in that information being gutted from this article. I suspect that those people think that only Jews celebrate Passover, First Fruits, Trumpets, Yom Kippur, Tabernacles, and Purim. This article will never be objective and Knowledge will not achieve its goal until the

3210:

The main reason I removed it was because you added so many torahlab.org links to so many articles lead me to believe that you were adding them not because you sincerely believed that each link added to the external link section something that the other links did not, but rather because you thought

3206:

As far as www.torahlab.org goes, it was not overall a terrible link, but it also was not that great. There was some content on it that was beyond the level of detail appropriate for the article, but not that much. Many of the article and audio files repeated what was already said in the article.

3028:

Chabad, aish, jewfaq are major internet resources for Jewish topics like Chanukah and there's no reason to remove them. The only one that might be borderline is the geocities site, since it is a personal website not the website of a Jewish organization that would be considered a reliable source.

2992:

removed links to 4 sites, jewfaq, aish, chabad, and a dreidel site with the edit summary of "del some of the most obvious linkspam". To me they look like quality sites about Hannukah which we should be linking to and definitely not linkspam. And I would like to get the opinion of some of the other

2607:

Hellenized Jews were never considered "Greek" — just as Jews that happen to speak English as their primary language are never called "English" in the United States. The editor clearly stated "Greek-style dress, customs and manners, though simultaneously retaining a Jewish identity." That is much

2418:

The statements are not predicated as teachings of Judaism -- the article states as a fact that the oil miraculously lasted eight days. Thus, the reversion is POV. As for "you cannot accuse a religion of being POV" -- well, yes, of course the teachings of religions are POV, and thus should not be

2022:

Why don't we list them as common misspellings, then. American heritage doesn't necessarily represent other English speaking countries. Later, if some australian (notional example only) thinks one of the "misspellings" is they way that country does it, then we have discovered something. I think the

1652:

I edited out the sentences about three major religions having holidays celebrated with lights. This statement seemed to be backing up the claim that "the roots of Hanukkah are probably more basic" (?) because three religions have celebrations after the winter solstice. However, this is factually

1625:

Somebody should really edit the main article to include a reference to Josephus. The main article has a section "Septuagint and Other Sources" but omits Josephus. The material above in this comment is a misprision of Josephus. Actually, he doesn't seem to understand why the Hanukkah festival was

159:

That said, I don't see any need to take down the reference, however. Messianic Judaism is a now-accepted name for that particular variant of Christianity. If people want to consider it Jewish, that's their problem, and this is, as you stated, an encyclopedia. It would be wrong to leave out mention

3190:

for wikipedia' guidelines), links that provide information not suitable for inclusion in an article due to copyright issues, level of detail, or any other reason, are good candidates for an external link. Links that restate much which was already said in the article, or even links that state was

2954:

Your objection is to try and smear the state of Israel and remove it's validity...stop being blatantly biased and stop lying to everyone on facebook...the modern state of Israel and the Hashmonean Kingdom are completely different. Architectural evidence shows that the kingdom existed within these

2922:

The red border is only there so a person familier with Israeli geography can understand where the Hasmonean Kingdom was. It is not meant the have great polical meaning. The Israel-Jordan border in the Jordan valley is a MUCH better reference point than the green line, simply because more people

2581:

The article doesn't claim that Jewish victory upon Antiochus IV overthrew the Greeks from Israel. I made some minor edits to specify that it was only Antiochus IV who had hostile intetions towards Judaism, and not Hellenistic rulers as a whole. Maybe this should become a little more specific. The

2553:

Actually, it wasn't anything close to the "original" version. Indeed, none of this was in the version of a year ago. AFAIK, "revert" is a technical term of art around here, and it doesn't mean grabbing several month old text and unfairly replacing the considerable intervening effort of others.

2936:

In response to Jon513, I believe you underestimate the Knowledge user. Depictions of the actual green-line Israeli borders with an indication of the disputed status of the Palestinian Territories and the Golan Heights are everywhere. They are in books, on the internet, on television. I never get

2290:

That was me. I certainly don't want to argue with a Rav, but I'm not sure how widely held that opinion is. In any case, whether pure oil was required or merely preferred is not central to the story and not a level of detail we need get into. I edited the section to stick more closely to what the

2054:

I think there's a case to be made for indicating the "standard dictionary spellings" for American English dictionaries, and for other major varieties of English. I'm not at all sure about whether "common misspellings" should be mentioned at all. "Ghandi" gets two million hits, compared to twelve

1405:

Technically Hanukkah doesn't get 5 million google hits, so stop trying to make it seem like Chanukah is never used. I thought that when an encyclopedia is talking about a word (or more importantly a holiday) it would use the correct spelling. If the spelling is incorrect, how can the rest of the

2702:

I edited in a paragraph about a civil war, with reference to a respected modern scholar who proposes the idea. The fact is that there were Jews on both sides of the conflict, as evev a cursory reading of I and II Maccabees demonstrates (the Jewish enemies of the Maccabees are the people called

1800:

In this way a family can celebrate the external forms of these two disparate holidays simultaneously, although the theological message of the two holidays are completely at odds. (Chanukah is a holiday that presents a message of religious Jews fighting against non-Jewish religious assimilation;

1436:

Is there an official source for the correct spelling? "Chanukah" is the spelling used by Knowledge, the U.S. Postal Service (for the 1996 Israeli version of the Chanukah stamp), so that's what I've used when I refer to the holiday, but I've heard that there are at least 16 correct spellings in

767:

name. Not the phonetically accurate, the most correct, the "recommended," etc. but the most common. As noted below, The American Heritage dictionary has "Hanukkah" (two k's, one n) as the main entry, mentions only "Hanukah" and "Chanukah" as alternatives, and does not provide enteries for them.

433:

Hello 66.245.3.91 (it would be nice if you signed in, BTW; your IP address is a bit hard to pronounce... ;-) ), I am not particularly fond of the Chanukah spelling either — I just went through the article and made the spelling consistent and wished for a different spelling to be chosen. I agree

3447:

As is all too common in Knowledge, this article contains vague, amateurish, confusing and contradictory scraps of information about pronunciation. I'm unable to edit the article to mitigate this due to the protection, but I hope someone with the requisite permissions will have a go themselves.

1340:

Exactly like you said, "if you don't have the right letters, you make do with what you have".. what we have is CH for the chet. X is never used in representation of Chanukah, maybe to represent the letter itself in situations where it is being explained bilingually -- but not in actual words.

674:

The problem is that Chanukah is pretty common spelling among English-speaking Jewish households. Hanukkah is useful just because its easier for people who haven't really learned any Hebrew. Hence the reason it has more searches come up using that word. I guess if there were a way to show that

155:

by all Jewish organizations. It's like calling ID a form of science - there are actual definitions to what science is, and the same goes for Jewish groups. It doesn't become science by calling it science, and it doesn't become Jewish by calling it Jewish. The fact that it's "religion" and not

712:

However it is spelled consistently in the article is fine. Still, the speculation that the "ch" is some attemot to connect to "ch"ristmas is baseless. The ch, among those who have some familiarity with words in Hebrew is simly a way to signal the right pronunciation (as was said above...)

118:

An encyclopedia is not a work on what we personally think should or should not be considered to be "Judaism", nor is it a referendum on our opinions of whether one "religiously-incorrect" group's observance of a Jewish holiday is to our liking. These articles are about what IS, not what we

3461:

talks about pharyngeal and velar fricatives, leaving me wondering if and are allophones in Hebrew or not. Someone needs to sort this out, preferably using some IPA at relevant points in the article. Knowledge has some good articles on linguistics and phonetics topics, but the rest of the

2304:

Sorry to nit-pick, but theologically, the oil requirement detail is CENTRAL. Many commentators have opined that it was the Macabees' very desire to beautify the mitzvah to which God responded with the miracle; that we should desire the "hanukah" to be meticulously observed; their voluntary

178:

as Jews if that's what they call themselves. And it's nothing like calling ID a form of science -- ID isn't science because it doesn't make testable predictions, not merely because scientific organizations reject it. But people really are Jews or Christians or Wiccans or Flying Spaghetti

3472:

Het and chaf don't really sound alike, but the vast majority of Hebrew speakers today find the het too hard, and pronounce it like a chaf instead. Chaf is, more or less, the "ch" in "loch", but het is sounded much further back down the throat, and doesn't sound like anything in English.

183:

or NPOV criteria for whether these adjectives apply to any specific person. And it's quite notable the Yehuda himself referred to them as "Jews". Simply put, you have addressed the wrong issue (and addressed it wrongly). Yehuda referred to "an article about the practice of Judaism" but

272:

It's a year late, but my apologies. I didn't mean to imply you were an anti-Semite or anything. In fact, we have no substantial area of disagreement - we both would like the non-Jewish observance section back, and you have apparently agreed "Messianic Jews" belong under it. Sorry for the

2516:

I've finished moving things around a bit so that historical descriptions are closer together, and in easier to edit sections. And I've finished the non-controversial edits that conform to previous versions. What's left is more controversial. Hopefully, folks can add more clarity now.

1269:

Being that the name Chanukkah/Hanukkah is a hebrew one, it would be best to stick to proper pronounciatIon and spelling, as it is in the original hebrew, "CHANUKKAH" (was just wondering if all of those saying that it should be spelled Hanukkah, can speak and read hebrew, "proper

3515:' army reconsecrated the Temple "in the year 148", which is 165 BCE). Therefore, since the chronology chart of BCE years dates back from 198 to 63 BCE, said chart should be dated by Seleucid years from around 114 to 249 or 250 SE. Will you add the Seleucid Era years, please? -- 1593:"Sukkot also lasts for eight days, and was a holiday in which the lighting of lamps played a prominent part during the Second Temple period (Suk.v. 2-4). Lights were also kindled in the household, and the popular name of the festival was, therefore, according to Josephus (( 2352:

The part about the "miracle of the oil" is problematic. To say this event was a miracle, if indeed it ever occured, is highly biased. This is probably a frequent problem on other religion sections that needs to be worked on. In any case, I'm fixing it up in this article.

1670:, and that Judaism has a lot to do with Jesus and the Anno Domini system. Therefore, I vote that any text like this : "36 BCE" would be transformed to this: "36 BC/BCE" or even "36 BCE/BC", and it would be applicable for all years BC and years AD until about the year 200. 1070:

Considering that 1) the current spelling is justified by translit. conventions and spelling frequency, 2) some people would read "Ch" as in "chair" and 3) most English-speakers won't be able to reproduce the throaty sound anyway, I agree with those who prefer simple "H".

2255:

or voice, or something). either way, i know I sure didn't get the difference. what is Po? sham is explained in the overall explanation of the letters, but you still have ot look for it. if we're oging to include this, someone who understands it needs to re-write it.

2741:

I'd like to drop the "(or 6:00 pm for legal purposes in Israel)" interjection in the section on when Hanukkah begins. For religious purposes the day begins at sundown and unless we want to go into what Jews in Antarctica do, 6:00 pm seems irrelevant to Hanukkah.

2195:

The rabbinic POV thus focussed solely on the miracle. The overall idea of Hanukkah is that it is meant to be a very public celebration, though, with menorahs plainly visible to the public, so has been in a large way about Jewish unity and publicising G-d's

2494:

Still, since Judaism's values didn't ever triumph over Hellenistic civilization as a whole, this isn't NPOV and it isn't factual. The anonymous contribution seems to be closer to fact, and clearly separated spiritual from military (arguably a good thing).

2214:

It is thus maybe ironic the Christmas influence on the celebration of Hanukkah in the modern world. The influence here needs to be discussed to a greater extent in the article, possibly with some documentation of its history. (It belongs more here than in

1653:

incorrect; Diwali is in October or November--not in the winter--and Hanukkah is not always after the solstice. Without the rhetoric about solstices, the statement about three major religions having holidays of light was irrelevent and out of place. --

1318:

What makes one "approximation" of the Hebrew better than any other? If you don't have the right letters, you make do with what you have. Nowaday I see "x" being used for "het." So how does Xanuka strike you? You even get the X-mas connection. LOL

768:

Merriam-Webster online has "Hanukkah" and "Chanukah" as entries and lacks "Hanukah." Neither has "Hannukah," two n's, one k. Combined with the notes about on the New Oxford, that means that two American dictionaries and one English dictionary

2084:(By the way: this is really very scary... the number of Google hits on "Ghandi" relative to "Gandhi" keeps climbing. A few years ago it was about 1/10 now it is 1/6... I fear that "Ghandi" may become an accepted spelling within my lifetime!) 424:

and Hebrew words have various spellings using the Latin alphabet. However, when I first saw this spelling of the word, which I believe was in 1991, I thought that it was attempted to put a bit of Christmas into it. Any comments about this??

2535:

It was me who reverted the civil war mention to the original version of the section. I thought the anon's edits were based on ridiculously unsourced POV. Check the edit-history further back and you'll find out that it was indeed a revert.

351:

Jesus), Christian, Bhuddist, or Jew and be a Zionist. Zionism is the belief that Israel is the Jewish homeland. It does not necessarily have anything to do with personal religious identification. MG196 01:33, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

1809:- particularly, the word "superseding" bothered me, as that sounds more "competitive" than I think Christian theology intends to be. Hopefully, "perceived fulfillment" will be taken as an improvement. Comments are welcome. Cheers. -- 947:

Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second

95:

Just took off the reference to "messianic Jews." While there are truly Jews who believe in Jesus as the messiah, their beliefs are not part of "Judaism" and therefore have no place in an article about the practice of Judaism.

3255:

I have no problem with the links mentioned, but as of this writing Reference 1 (^ Holiday Guide – Celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah and Kwanzaa) links to a strictly commercial site. It isn't a factual page and doesn't belong.

2717:

Granted, to modern Jews Hannukkah is a story about resistance to persecution, with Antiochus standing in for Hitler or the Cossacks - but the story is much more complicated then that and the history section should say so

3141:

I would like to add a link to torahlab.org, which has relevant content and free downloads which increase the knowledgebase about Chanukah. Since I saw that Aish and Chabad had links (as well as many others) I put it up.

2199:

Zionism brought with it a renewed interest in Jewish strength, that returned the military image of the Maccabees back to the forefront of the Hanukkah story. This is the reason for sporting organisations by the name

482:

I don't know why this change was made, "Chanukah" better reflects the actual Hebrew pronunciation, which begins with a "chet", not a "hey", which is pronounced "khah-noo-KAH", with a sound similar to the German

2768:) returned only this Knowledge page. Further, I looked at the history of the user who made the edit (at 18:42 28 December 2005, from 195.198.195.50), and that was the user's first and only edit on Knowledge. 3338:

The significance of the holiday goes far beyond what the blurb says: "The Temple in Jerusalem was purified, and the wicks of the Menorah miraculously burned for eight days with only enough oil for one day."

3057:

Very strange. The sites are all popular Jewish sites for exactly this kind of thing. As MPerel says, only the geocities one might be questionable, but there doesn't seem to be a need to delete that either.

1665:

I believe that the Anno Domini system should be stated alongside the Common Era system (a branch from the Anno Domini system) due to the fact that both must be placed in major Christian articles, such as

2892:

I object to the use of the image containing the map of the Hasmonean Kingdom set against the background of the so-called present-day borders of Israel. The image is also being used in the articles on

2440:

Based are your retarded reasoning, all articles on WP should be deleted, since everything is a POV to someone and is rejected by others. Let's do that! Let's just delete all of wikipedia! Morons....

2677:, a completely different event of the Jewish-Roman Wars. Although there are still no references of "Hellenised Jews", the conflicts take place between the Jewish and Hellenist inhabitants of Israel. 957:"Hanukkah" is not a technical term or one used only by scholars, or by Jews. It is an ordinary English word in ordinary English dictionaries, and one which is widely known to the general public. 2319:

I checked with my teacher and he said pretty much the same thing as you two. So I was wrong. But if we are going to get into this level of detail, I think more of an explanation is required. --

1731:

of religious celebrations, cultural custom, and national tradition. For example, eating latkes is a tradition with no religious significance that is nevertheless closely linked with Hanukkah.

2338:

The /* Story */ section must include the miracle of the eight day oil; why was this missing? I fixed it, while preserving and better integrating all previous material. HAPPY HANNUKAH!!!! :)

3146:

has removed it and told me to discuss it first on this board before re-adding. Can anyone explain to me why there should be a difference between www.torahlab.org and any of the other sites?

1710:

BCE changes. As of the end of 2003, Hanukkah used BCE; since standard Knowledge policy is stay with the original usage, I will assist in reverting any changes away from that back to that.--

2498:

As it stands, there's an awful lot of confusion here in this text, and there's an awful lot of edits coming during the holiday. I'm trying to read each one to understand the differences.

2836:

what's your suggestion ? :) we can change it. there are some more photos in the article, if you want... maybe we should put a chanukiyah with candles on ? I can take such a photo maybe..

192:, which is described as a "Jewish Holiday", and as Yehuda says they are Jews and doesn't disagree that they celebrate the holiday, he was wholy in error in removing mention of them. -- 2166:

I need to set aside some time to have a go at this article, but time isn't forthcoming for the next few weeks. It is sufficiently detailed to work towards becoming a featured article.

1750:

Categories are there to help users find information, not to make final judgements on disputed issues, and including it in the category of Christmas-linked holidays is sensible because

3462:

encyclopaedia is a rogues' gallery of pronunciation howlers. I hope someone who knows all about the pronunciation of this word can imbue its article with an ounce of professionalism.

3106:

Unclear which criteria Pascal employed to seperate chaff from corn. I have much more problems with a recipe wiki than links to highly authoritative outlets of information on Judaism.

2764:

I did so because I've never heard of Hanukkah being called "Barbourosa Festival" despite having celebrated Hanukah all my life. This was confirmed by the fact that a Google search (

513:

The change was made because there is no universal way to transcribe Hebrew into English. The Google search bore this out, and did indicate that the prevalent spelling in English is

3029:

However, even the geocities site seems to have valuable and informative content appropriate for the External Links section, and there's no real compelling reason to delete it. --

2491:

And, some parts of the edit do have text from earlier versions of the article more than a dozen days old (I only looked back 2 weeks). But they'd been heavily massaged since.

1522:

recently deleted the information about the form hanukah, claiming that "a menorah is never called a 'chanukah'". I think this is an appropriate occasion for a reminder that

2865:

The new info box image is a real improvement. I used the Tiffany image to replace the Hasidim menorah, which I think some would find disrespectful rather than whimsical.--

463:

Right. That's done. It took an hour and a half to chase up all the links. If you check the What Links Here page you'll see that almost everything now links directly to

2826:

Why is the "Tiffany Menorah" placed in the main box as a representation of the holiday? Surely a much better picture could be used to symbolize the festival. --

3207:

Also as most of it was in mp3 format, it less accessible for many people (slow internet connection, or not wanting to listen to something instead of read it).

2501:

I'll try again to split the difference. But would like some ideas for actual factual references. I seem to remember a civil war, that is, an actual event.

1742:

We had Hanukkah, a minor military holiday transformed by the combined pressure of thousands of Jewish children over the years into a substitute for Christmas

1630:

a sacrifice in the temple restored after the return from Babylonia. The rabbis might have decided on another reason for the name "Lights" at a later date.)

1555:

However Menorah is commonly used to denote the candelabra used in Chanukah. This derives most usually from Yiddish and is commonly used outside of Israel.

3179:

I have not looked at every external links, so I cannot tell why www.torahlab.org is different. It is possible that many other links should be removed to.

3182:

One of the nice thing about wikipedia is its external link section, where a person can learn more about the subject if he or she wants to. Nevertheless

1944: 941: 930:

Those observations would be relevant if Knowledge's naming convention was to "use the most authoritative and correct transliteration of the Hebrew name."

1841:

I've merged in the separate article "Hanukkah rituals" to address the later problem.I'm not sure what more we can do about the "when" question. --

3409: 3382: 3345: 1597:) Jewish Antiquities xii. 7, § 7, #323) the "Festival of Lights" ("And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights")." 248: 174:

Saying that their legitimacy (as Jews) is universally rejected by "all Jewish organizations" is circular reasoning; clearly, they don't reject

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With, of course other alternatives clearly mentioned and explained within the article, and redirects provided from every reasonable spelling.

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stated as facts in WP. To make it NPOV it obviously must say something like "according to ..., the oil miraculously lasted eight days". --

525:). Further, it is the preferred form in the New Oxford Dictionary (which is pretty authorititative). Stats on the 3,255,150 hits in Google: 2962: 2447: 2399: 2360: 720: 2845:

I've uploaded an image from off flickr (with permission). I think it conveys the spirit of the holiday a bit more than the old one did. --

1771:

Latkes and donuts are eaten because they are foods cooked in oil, and oil is inextricably linked to the religious perspective on chanuka.

1580:

Hi whoever you are, why didn't you sign your name with the four ~~~~ ? Anonymous comments don't add up to too much on Knowledge. Thanks.

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and an article has settled on one of them, it should not be changed without a strong reason and a general consensus on the talk page. --

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or as nothing. Technically, the h is not pronounced, but is still often added in many English transcriptions of English words, such as

2378:

teaches about these events and this festival. You cannot accuse a religion of being "POV". Your edits will be reverted Mr. Anonymous.

106: 2222:

I would be interested to see material on the celebration of Hanukkah in Israel; what role the festival takes in comparison to others.

1482:

Surely the YIVO spelling given as Khanike is a typo for Khanuke? I don't know Yiddish, but this looks suspicious as a sound change.

1348: 1280: 1013:

The "ch" is actually more correct, because it more accurately represents the throaty noise you want to make when saying the word. --

228:-- are you trying to accuse me of racism or something? I would give everything I have if that could make me a Jew. You also said, 1854:

Also shouldn't their be something about the oil lasting a long time (I'm not up on this but I think it's part of their tradition).

394:

I have clarified in the article that Chanukah begins in the evening prior to those dates. If this is inaccurate, please correct. --

2477:(it wasn't, not to Zachbe anyway) in which a wholesale rewrite (with several duplicate sections) eliminated the civil war mention 302:

Messianic (Christian) "Judaism" is just as legitimate as Reform "Judaism", Conservative "Judaism", and Zionism (i.e. not at all).

3342:

Instead, the holiday brings a sense of national re-assertion, being almost the second-temple era equivalent of Independence Day.

2577:

Still, since Judaism's values didn't ever triumph over Hellenistic civilization as a whole, this isn't NPOV and it isn't factual.

1456: 2640:

I deeply resent the phrase "you people" on behalf of both myself and my Jewish relatives and friends. Please keep this civil.

2604:

I deeply resent the phrase "you people" on behalf of both myself and my Jewish relatives and friends. Please keep this civil.

3454: 3432:

Or IPA for modern and classical (and yiddish? pronunciations)... I don't know how it is actually pronounced, but I know IPA!

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The fact that there could be high priests named after Greek mythological heroes like Jason and Menelaus tells the same story.

2207:

A major concept in between the military victory and the publicity of the miracle is the idea of Judaism withstanding against

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Doubling of n? This is actually incorrect, rather than a variant, and is probably due to authors' confusions over spelling

3507:(the ones included in the Missalette's Weekday Year I), the events of Maccabees are marked only by Seleucid years (e.g., 221:

information about the Christian celebration of Hanukkah is restored to the article or allowed to be referenced elsewhere.

2856: 937: 1695:

The arrangement regarding the Jesus article was reached before the current armistice on BCE/CE changes. Please do not

1873: 367: 1889:

Thawa: Please sign your name which will be done for you automatically when you type in the four tildes ~~~~ Thanks.

1735:

of Hanukkah and Christmas. There are, however, links between the nonreligious customs surrounding the two holidays.

3186:, removing some links and having only high quality links makes the external links section better. In general (see 2871:

that's a wonderful image, although when it's small it looks a bit too dark. When you click on it, it looks better.

2760:

19:26, 30 December 2005 130.164.68.123 (Remove reference to "Barbourosa Festival" (see Talk page for further info))

2646:

just as Jews that happen to speak English as their primary language are never called "English" in the United States

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misspelling so it wouldn't be like we just list 500 ways to misspell a word. Chuuunnukahhh for example is not a

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Hanukka has an interesting history in terms of how it has been percieved (although much of this belongs in the

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I have removed Category:Holidays from this article and put Category:Jewish holy days into Category:Holidays.

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gives a more reliable approximation of the Hebrew sound. I think that this change was the right one to make.

2291:

Gemara says. I also moved this comment toward the end where new comments should be added. Happy Hanukkah! --

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misunderstanding. I do find it funny that you think it's "arrogant" when people try to educate you, though.

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is ambiguous as to or , and since most English speakers don't have the phoneme in any case, the spelling

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Christmas is a holiday that presents a message of superseding Judaism with a new religion, Christianity.)

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Chanuka 61,100; Chanukkah 53,500; Hanuka 44,300; Hanukka 20,700. This change should be made. I'm going to

3482:

I tried to clean up the Loch business. The section could still use work. A sound file would be helpful.--

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I suggest we always use the "Hanukkah" spelling. Technically, the 2 spellings exist because the word is

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I also don't see how the major ones count as linkspam. The personal website should perhaps be removed.

2811:

I do not. This matter was already discussed, please see the section above entitle 'Transliteration'.

2188:; possibly because of an anti-militaristic stance, especially as the military leaders were meant to be 2113: 1682: 1250:

sound. but its true there is not english spelling of the word because it doesnt translate from Hebrew.

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These sites don't look like spam, but are rather relevant links. Why would you think that they are?

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I apologize for the message I left on you talk, I should have explain the problem to you better.

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I see that you've made some improvements now, specifically in regard to Antiochus IV. Thank you.

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Chanukah is the "Jewish" way of spelling it, would that be enough to get the title changed back?

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Anyway I think the editors who mentioned a "civil war" confused the Maccabean revolt with the

1567: 643:

Sure, it's a popular spelling. But it's not the best, or most-attested, spelling in English.

3147: 3017: 2850: 2306: 3516: 3512: 3307: 3080: 2901: 2339: 1869: 1711: 1696: 1211:, and all the links point the the same spelling, so let's leave this one alone, shall we? 421: 363: 151:

messianic) was an offshoot of Christianity, not Judaism. Furthermore, their legitamacy is

160:

altogether. However, I would put such things under "Christian relationships to Chanukah".

2893: 2281: 2064: 2060: 1806: 1654: 1618: 1320: 1014: 676: 1835: 3458: 3413: 3183: 3107: 2994: 2909: 2765: 2243: 2226: 2085: 2011: 1934: 1772: 1759: 1212: 1141: 958: 880: 832: 773: 644: 610: 587: 488: 468: 451: 310: 226:

short-shrifting Yehuda on this one (perhaps because he has an obviously Jewish name?)

47: 17: 2488:

Admittedly an anonymous contribution isn't quite as respected as an attributed one.

2180:

The rabbinic world downplayed the military role, possibly because of the outcome of

3349: 2872: 2837: 2216: 1789: 1678: 395: 1609:? In either case it should be edited for clarity, but especially if the intent is 1601:

Is the intention here to say that lights were kindled in the household as part of

1296:

tzadek. Hanukkah is a total American butchery of the word, and INCORRECT at that.

581:

is difficult in English, which is why there are so many variants. But <ch: -->

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That's not an External Link, it's a reference; what is your problem with it? --

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Err, excuse me whoever you are, the article DESCRIBES and EXPLAINS what and how

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

1783: 1738:

Edward Cohen, in a reminiscence of life as a Jew in 1950s Mississippi, writes:

1536: 413:

I don't know if anyone has ever thought about it, but this is something I find

3474: 3303: 3059: 2719: 1865: 1700: 1519: 1505: 1140:"Ch" is not necessarily more correct, but again see the pages I linked above. 517:. This is also closest to the transcription given in the article itself (חנכה 3519: 3486: 3477: 3466: 3436: 3425: 3394: 3361: 3311: 3265: 3222: 3150: 3116: 3085: 3062: 3044: 3019: 3003: 2970: 2941: 2927: 2916: 2905: 2897: 2875: 2860: 2840: 2830: 2815: 2805: 2791: 2777: 2746: 2722: 2681: 2654: 2620: 2586: 2561: 2540: 2524: 2509: 2455: 2423: 2382: 2379: 2342: 2323: 2295: 2284: 2248: 2231: 2208: 2185: 2181: 2170: 2156: 2116: 2091: 2035: 2017: 1960: 1951: 1937: 1915: 1893: 1890: 1845: 1777: 1765: 1714: 1703: 1641: 1581: 1540: 1508: 1380: 1323: 1215: 1146: 1078: 1017: 964: 885: 779: 679: 435: 277: 196: 2554:

Moreover, your version is just as unsourced. Please improve the sourcing.

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The Maccabees just wanted to do the lighting in the best way possible. --

2032: 1957: 1823:

What seems to be missing from this article is a description of precisely

1793: 464: 2010:

and AFAIK "Hannukah" (two n's, one k) should not be in the list at all.

3196: 2374: 2201: 1943:

There is an extensive discussion on Hebrew transliteration going on at

868: 828:. The problem with this article's naming lies in 4 places in the name: 3449: 2056: 1724:

I didn't put in the category, but it is valid and it should remain.

1465:

There is (Academia L'lashon ha-Ivrit) but it only specifies official

864: 849: 3406:

Can anyone provide a voice sample ogg file on how to say Hannukah.

224:

And DMZ thank you for your condescending comments. You said I was

2771:

If you can cite evidence to support this name, then please do so.

2189: 1784:'Influence on Christianity' - contrasting Judaism and Christianity 1667: 872: 609:

Huh, we always spelled it "Chanukah" in my family growing up... --

2611:

You've confirmed your POV. We need better sourcing and less POV.

1440:

French has L'Académie Française, is there an Israeli equivalent?

179:

Monsterists by virtue of calling themselves same -- there are no

2642:- By "you people" I meant "you two over there" not "you Jews". 1595:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=J.+AJ+12.287

25: 848:

Doubling of k? This is a question of how one transcribes the

2192:, and didn't stand up to their expected levels of holiness. 1727:

Both the words "Christmas" and "Hanukkah" invoke complex

2242:

makes it appear only a mnemonic. Any comments? Sources?

2177:

It probably began as a celebration of a military victory

1956:

I have inserted a section on transliteration of Hanukah

2990: 2482: 2478: 2474: 2112:

Why is Vav used in the center when spelling Hannukah?--

1947:. I think your comments would be very helpful there. -- 1469:

spellings, not transliterations into other alphabets.

3511:

became king "in the year 137", which is 175 BCE, and

3373:

Please add this perfect halachot of the maimonides:

772:

concur in attesting to "Hanukkah" as most frequent.

820:No, there is no consensus here, but please all see 3195:be said in the article, are not. For articles on 2766:http://www.google.com/search?q=Barbourosa+Festival 2145:against Jewish and Syrian Greek Hellenizing forces 1992:Chanukah (common alternative in the United States) 1792:, and edited a couple of sentences in the section 3199:this often means links that deal with a detailed 2801:I think we should move this article to Khannukkah 2305:beautification is the very message of Hannukah -- 1995:Hanukah (common alternative in the United States) 1432:Official source (ala Academia L'lashon ha-Ivrit)? 1552:candelabra used for Chanukah has nine candles. 3457:, which is not the same thing! The article on 763:The Knowledge naming convention is to use the 188:is circular reasoning. It's an article about 8: 1537:http://www.midrash.org/halakha/hanukkah.html 2067:does not mention "Ghandi" as a misspelling. 1989:Hanukkah (most common in the United States) 3453:section about transliteration says it's a 3443:Usual amateurish pronunciation information 2023:Google test can tell us if something is a 1945:Knowledge talk:Naming conventions (Hebrew) 1709:I'm getting real tired of the BC<-: --> 1485:David Marjanović | 00:04 CET | 2006/12/26 942:Knowledge:Naming conventions (use English) 3203:, or halacha inappropriate for wikipedia. 2993:editors here regarding this deletion. -- 3375:http://mishnetorah.com/pdf/hanukaMT.pdf 3215:is a good site and should be linked to. 2149:Any ideas? Ancient Greeks is incorrect. 1207:English language lexicography prefers ' 3184:Knowledge is NOT a repository of links 230:I'd like to educate you a bit on this. 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1413: 1407: 1303: 1297: 822:Knowledge:Naming conventions (Hebrew) 573:0%. I understand that distinguishing 7: 2137:rebellion against the ancient Greeks 156:"science" does not change this fact. 2184:leadership that descended from the 163:--DMZ 13:21, 22 December 2005 (UTC) 2888:Objection to the use of this image 1805:I tried to make things a bit more 487:", as opposed to an English "h"... 24: 29: 2162:Changing perception of Chanukah 1796:. Prior to my edit, they read: 1431: 936:Knowledge's naming convention, 232:How arrogant! And irrelevant. 3455:voiceless pharyngeal fricative 1515:Menorah = Chanukah = Chanukiah 680:03:58, 18 September 2006 (UTC) 1: 3520:01:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC) 3478:14:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC) 3467:03:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC) 3437:07:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC) 3426:20:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC) 3395:11:31, 17 December 2006 (UTC) 3362:00:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC) 3312:19:38, 13 December 2009 (UTC) 3266:19:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC) 3223:19:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 3151:16:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2876:23:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC) 2861:23:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC) 2778:19:34, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2747:18:38, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2682:18:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2655:18:33, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2621:15:15, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2587:02:08, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2562:15:15, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2541:02:08, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2525:20:30, 29 December 2005 (UTC) 2510:19:03, 29 December 2005 (UTC) 2424:09:32, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 2383:08:02, 29 December 2005 (UTC) 2343:03:16, 26 December 2005 (UTC) 2324:03:59, 28 December 2005 (UTC) 2296:04:14, 26 December 2005 (UTC) 2285:16:26, 25 December 2005 (UTC) 2249:11:11, 25 December 2005 (UTC) 2232:23:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC) 2157:22:05, 17 December 2005 (UTC) 2117:18:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC) 2092:18:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC) 2036:17:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC) 2018:16:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC) 1974:k. Based on this, I'm saying: 1961:23:40, 10 December 2005 (UTC) 1778:23:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC) 1747:Christmas-theme decorations. 1642:05:40, 25 December 2008 (UTC) 1509:23:35, 25 December 2006 (UTC) 1216:10:33, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 1147:11:15, 25 December 2005 (UTC) 1079:07:07, 25 December 2005 (UTC) 1018:06:33, 25 December 2005 (UTC) 965:15:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC) 886:14:27, 24 December 2005 (UTC) 780:20:58, 23 December 2005 (UTC) 278:18:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC) 197:10:00, 30 December 2005 (UTC) 3495:BCE Years vs. Seleucid Years 3117:19:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC) 3086:18:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC) 3063:18:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC) 3045:17:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC) 3020:17:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC) 3004:17:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC) 2971:05:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 2942:17:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC) 2928:14:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC) 2917:13:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC) 2456:05:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 1952:11:37, 9 December 2005 (UTC) 1938:04:26, 9 December 2005 (UTC) 1916:14:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC) 1894:06:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) 1846:05:47, 5 December 2005 (UTC) 1836:14:09, 4 December 2005 (UTC) 1827:Hanukkah is celebrated, and 1814:08:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC) 1766:18:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC) 1715:04:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC) 938:Knowledge:Naming conventions 2841:07:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 2831:01:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 2723:15:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC) 1704:22:19, 6 October 2005 (UTC) 615: 493: 88:Reference to messianic Jews 3535: 2792:07:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC) 2608:clearer than your version. 2055:million for "Gandhi," and 1661:Anno Domini vs. Common Era 2816:12:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC) 2703:'renegades and sinners'). 2473:An edit claiming to be a 2406:) 01:23, 30 December 2005 2367:) 04:52, 29 December 2005 2269:) 07:05, 26 December 2005 2143:This should probably say 1794:Influence on Christianity 1657:22:15, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) 1621:21:53, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) 1499:) 23:04, 25 December 2006 1287:) 03:41, 10 December 2006 951:That would be "Hanukkah." 727:) 19:54, 23 December 2005 408:very slowly and carefully 398:14:43, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC) 321:) 22:30, 20 December 2006 113:) 05:14, 16 December 2003 3487:11:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC) 3188:Knowledge:External links 2806:02:48, 12 May 2006 (UTC) 2756:I made the edit labeled 1876:) 06:20, 5 December 2005 1720:Christmas-linked holiday 1574:) 22:51, 8 December 2004 1543:08:14, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1526:always check one's facts 1459:) 16:27, 3 December 2004 1417:19:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 1381:18:35, 31 May 2007 (UTC) 1324:06:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC) 1307:04:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC) 1264:) 22:45, 6 December 2006 852:(or hazaq, chazak, etc). 620:18:29, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC) 590:18:17, 2005 Feb 28 (UTC) 498:13:43, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC) 471:12:46, 2005 Feb 28 (UTC) 454:10:57, 2005 Feb 28 (UTC) 429:02:27, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC) 389:Gregorian calendar dates 141:) 15:30, 3 December 2004 2469:References to civil war 2031:misspelling. Comments? 1818: 1758:regard it in this way. 1689:) 21:57, 6 October 2005 1584:14:41, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC) 1473:16:29, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1135:Well the repetition of 647:13:46, 2005 Mar 1 (UTC) 438:02:46, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3509:Antiochus IV Epiphanes 3439:Linguistics Undergrad 2986:The following edit by 1803: 826:Romanization of Hebrew 214:USER: Chad A. Woodburn 3412:comment was added by 3385:comment was added by 3379:Its really valuable! 3348:comment was added by 2618:William Allen Simpson 2559:William Allen Simpson 2522:William Allen Simpson 2507:William Allen Simpson 2063:, but the article on 1798: 1547:Menorah vs. Chanukiah 1504:Nope. Not a typo. 415:very natural to think 402:Hanukkah vs. Chanukah 251:) 16:22, 12 June 2006 218:politically incorrect 42:of past discussions. 1530:removing information 1355:) 17:15, 31 May 2007 153:universally rejected 3369:maimonides halachot 2752:Barbourosa Festival 2675:Great Jewish Revolt 2348:"Miracle" Not NPOV? 3000:£€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 2334:Miracle of the Oil 2173:article as well): 1831:it is celebrated. 3429: 3398: 3365: 3114: 3001: 2973: 2961:comment added by 2859: 2853: 2783:Category:Holidays 2458: 2446:comment added by 2398:comment added by 2359:comment added by 2261:comment added by 1878: 1864:comment added by 1691: 1677:comment added by 1576: 1562:comment added by 1491:comment added by 1461: 1447:comment added by 1347:comment added by 1279:comment added by 1256:comment added by 831:Transcription of 719:comment added by 618: 617: 496: 495: 372: 358:comment added by 323: 309:comment added by 253: 239:comment added by 143: 129:comment added by 105:comment added by 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3526: 3407: 3380: 3343: 3112: 3042: 3039: 3036: 3033: 3014: 2999: 2982:Removal of links 2956: 2855: 2849: 2441: 2407: 2368: 2270: 1877: 1858: 1690: 1671: 1575: 1556: 1532:from an article. 1500: 1460: 1441: 1415: 1411: 1356: 1305: 1301: 1288: 1265: 940:, elaborated at 728: 616: 614: 613: 494: 492: 491: 371: 352: 322: 303: 252: 241:Chad A. Woodburn 233: 142: 131:Chad A. Woodburn 123: 122:--Chad Woodburn 114: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3534: 3533: 3529: 3528: 3527: 3525: 3524: 3523: 3513:Judas Maccabeus 3497: 3445: 3408:—The preceding 3404: 3387:148.177.129.212 3381:—The preceding 3371: 3344:—The preceding 3336: 3040: 3037: 3034: 3031: 3012: 2984: 2902:Judas Maccabeus 2890: 2824: 2822:Tiffany Menorah 2799: 2785: 2754: 2739: 2471: 2393: 2354: 2350: 2336: 2277: 2263:172.173.140.217 2256: 2239: 2211:and Greek rule. 2164: 2133: 1930: 1928:Transliteration 1859: 1821: 1786: 1722: 1672: 1663: 1650: 1591: 1557: 1549: 1517: 1486: 1480: 1442: 1434: 1342: 1274: 1251: 835:(ח): either as 714: 404: 391: 353: 304: 234: 124: 100: 90: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3532: 3530: 3496: 3493: 3492: 3491: 3490: 3489: 3444: 3441: 3434:130.91.240.127 3403: 3400: 3370: 3367: 3335: 3332: 3331: 3330: 3329: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3325: 3324: 3323: 3322: 3321: 3320: 3319: 3318: 3317: 3316: 3315: 3314: 3283: 3282: 3281: 3280: 3279: 3278: 3277: 3276: 3275: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3271: 3270: 3269: 3268: 3258:Historicrecord 3238: 3237: 3236: 3235: 3234: 3233: 3232: 3231: 3230: 3229: 3228: 3227: 3226: 3225: 3216: 3211:that the site 3208: 3204: 3180: 3164: 3163: 3162: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3158: 3157: 3156: 3155: 3154: 3153: 3128: 3127: 3126: 3125: 3124: 3123: 3122: 3121: 3120: 3119: 3095: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3065: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3023: 3022: 2983: 2980: 2979: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2963:72.144.247.181 2947: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2931: 2930: 2894:Jewish history 2889: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2823: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2798: 2795: 2784: 2781: 2775:130.164.68.123 2762: 2761: 2753: 2750: 2738: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2725: 2715: 2711: 2708: 2704: 2691: 2690: 2689: 2688: 2687: 2686: 2685: 2684: 2664: 2663: 2662: 2661: 2660: 2659: 2658: 2657: 2649: 2643: 2630: 2629: 2628: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2624: 2623: 2613: 2612: 2609: 2605: 2602: 2592: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2579: 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294: 293: 292: 291: 290: 279: 276: 271: 270: 269: 268: 267: 266: 265: 264: 263: 262: 250: 246: 242: 238: 231: 227: 223: 219: 215: 212: 211: 210: 209: 208: 207: 206: 205: 198: 195: 191: 187: 182: 177: 173: 172: 171: 170: 169: 168: 162: 158: 154: 149: 148: 147: 146: 140: 136: 132: 128: 121: 117: 116: 115: 112: 108: 104: 97: 93: 87: 81: 78: 75: 73: 70: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 18:Talk:Hanukkah 3498: 3446: 3431: 3405: 3378: 3372: 3341: 3337: 3212: 3200: 3192: 3010: 2985: 2891: 2825: 2800: 2786: 2773: 2770: 2763: 2755: 2740: 2645: 2639: 2576: 2500: 2497: 2493: 2490: 2487: 2472: 2373: 2351: 2337: 2278: 2240: 2225: 2217:Christmukkah 2168: 2165: 2148: 2144: 2142: 2136: 2134: 2114:75.80.66.159 2028: 2024: 1931: 1860:— Preceding 1855: 1828: 1824: 1822: 1804: 1799: 1787: 1755: 1751: 1749: 1745: 1737: 1733: 1728: 1726: 1723: 1708: 1673:— Preceding 1664: 1651: 1648:Inaccuracies 1627: 1616: 1610: 1606: 1602: 1592: 1558:— Preceding 1554: 1550: 1529: 1525: 1523: 1518: 1484: 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535:Hannukah 531:Chanukah 527:Hanukkah 523:ḥănūkkāh 519:ḥănukkāh 515:Hanukkah 469:Evertype 465:Hanukkah 452:Evertype 368:contribs 356:unsigned 319:contribs 311:Bobover1 307:unsigned 249:contribs 237:unsigned 190:Hanukkah 139:contribs 127:unsigned 103:unsigned 3350:Cdamama 3197:halacha 2873:Amoruso 2838:Amoruso 2737:6:00 pm 2375:Judaism 2219:, IMO.) 2202:Maccabi 2190:priests 1754:people 1679:Jordain 1564:Esorlem 1528:before 1471:Dreyfus 1273:(Josh) 948:nature. 869:mitzvah 559:Hanukka 543:Chanuka 539:Hanukah 448:be bold 396:cprompt 99:-Yehuda 39:archive 3450:Scouse 3220:Jon513 3193:should 3144:Jon513 3060:Jayjg 3013:Tewfik 2925:Jon513 2847:Eliyak 2828:MosheA 2813:Jon513 2789:Jon513 2679:Miskin 2652:Miskin 2584:Miskin 2538:Miskin 2475:revert 2154:DaveHM 2151:DaveHM 2135:Text: 2089:(talk) 2057:Ghandi 2029:common 2025:common 2015:(talk) 1763:(talk) 1701:Jayjg 1603:Sukkot 1467:Hebrew 962:(talk) 865:kippah 777:(talk) 567:Haneka 563:Hanaka 551:Hanuka 422:Hebrew 3475:Zsero 3304:Zsero 3201:pipul 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