1033:– is misleading, as it similarly visualises an artefact of the categorisation in the census, where all and sundry are counted as dialects of Hindi. Of course, this vast area does have one thing in common, and that's the dominance of Hindi in the public sphere. But if this is to be visualised, we'd need a specific parameter with a real meaning (rather than an artefact of the census publications). Something as simple as the extent of the territories where Hindi is official will probably do for now. This could then be neatly juxtaposed with a representation of speakers' own identification of the language they speak natively.
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point out the Indian Census, then Indian Census doesn't ask people if they consider their language as dialect or not. The map represents no one & spreads shhallow information about this country's diversity. The map in the infobox is also wrong. Bhojpuri, Rajasthani & Pahari languages are only political dialects; they don't share any linguistic history with today's Hindi. Therefore, that map too spreads wrong information & therefor I am removing it. I you want to show Hindi belt, simply include a map with states highlighted.
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though again probably not within the list itself. Another addition was the observation that the census figures quoted do not reflect ground reality. This was again unsourced, and even though I would partially agree with you here, any claims would need to specify exactly where the mismatch is (here, it's the fact that for many of the languages listed, a significant proportion of speakers identify their language as "Hindi").
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Pahari languages' speakers don't identify their languages as mere dialects of Hindi. The map is very shallow and hence I am removing it. Simply saying Hindi is L1 without looking into what comes under it is wrong. Neither do people in Bihar call their language as dialect of Hindi. If you are going to
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The red area is where Hindi languages are spoken natively. The native language of Lahore is
Punjabi, and that of Karachi is Sindhi. After partition (and even before), a lot of Urdu-speaking Muslims moved to Pakistan, where they can be found in all major cities. Coloring in those cities because they
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Sorry for not mentioning it earlier. Bihari & Eastern: Bhojpuri, Angika, Bazika, Magahi, Nagpuri, Pahari(Himachali), Rajasthani, Dhatki, Garhwali & Kumaoni mentioned in this document. The only reason I mentioned about the pending status is to highlight that there is a section of people who
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In the diff linked above you make several additions. One is the addition of commentaries to several of the list entries to the effect that Eight
Schedule status was pending. This was unsourced, and probably not relevant – if such status does eventually get granted, then the fact may be mentioned,
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Conceptually, I suppose so, though it isn't actually one in the sense that there's no ISO code for it. "Macrolanguage" isn't a linguistic concept, it's an attempt to address naming and coding problems when sociolinguistic and cladistic definitions of language clash. Dogri-Kangri is coded as a
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is rather simplistic hence confusing in my opinion, since languages of
Uttarakhand, Himachal Pradesh, are also considered Hindi languages, atleast by the Indian Census, secondly Maithili and the related Angika are not considered Hindi languages despite being Bihari languages, third unnecessary
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The whole point is that "Hindi" has no basis in reality. The reason that the census is relevant is that the population given for "Hindi" is based on the census, so we really have very little idea how many speakers of actual Hindi there are, in spite of which people will say that "Hindi" in the
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bit, your addition of "Himachali" was not backed up by the source (as it's not clear which Pahari it is referring to). Actually, I don't think this whole paragraph makes much sense. Yes, we need to mention the demands for official status, but surely we can do better than using as source this
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But what if Hindi or Urdu is spoken by someone born in London? Isn't it spoken "natively"? Or if not, when was the cutoff year, so a language arriving earlier is "native", later: not "native"? Remember, English is also an imported language that evolved from a dialect of German, brought by
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Sorry for removing it without consensus, but what is 'personal' commentary that I had put up? I only removed maps with explanation, & mentioned the languages whose
Scheduled status is pending in the GoI's MHA, (listed under 'dialects' in this article). I also pointed out the Census's
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teeny-tiny current affairs report from 7 years ago that's likely long out of date. And the second part of the paragraph – there not going to be any Hindi left if
Bhojpuri etc, get status – is complete rubbish. We don't need to report on any crazy view out there. –
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Hindi is a cultural concept, not a linguistic one. Nepali was never considered Hindi. I would guess that's because Nepal was not part of India, but I don't really know. BTW, Dogri is no longer considered Hindi, because it's become its own official language. —
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open to debate – the only reason this could have been included is the bizarre decision by the census officials to categorise under "Hindi" each and every language whose speakers identify using the ambiguous word "Pahari"). The map further down –
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I've simplified it to the minimum of necessary information. The short description is not meant to be a summary. As long as people get to know that the article has something to do with India and languages, and is not about a kind of
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Most
Pakistanis living in the UK speak Urdu, and their families are often from Lahore and Karachi. Yet no part of Pakistan (save for a small strip over Sindh) is covered by the red area of
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macrolanguage, and that used to be part of Hindi; Rajasthani is as well, and it still is considered Hindi (or at least parts of
Rajasthani: Marwari is a separate macrolanguage). —
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classification problem. About 'political dialects' term then it is pretty mainstream understanding now as most of these so called dialects don't share parents with Hindi (refer:
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for providing a better description. Yours is a much better and simple enough to serve its purpose. I agree that mine was a bit too complicated and slightly incorrect.
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Do not remove content/images from stable version without consensus. Also do not add your own personal commentary in articles. Pinging
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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now have Urdu speakers would be like coloring in London because it has Urdu speakers. —
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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cluttering of short description which typically have to be short. Suggestions
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don't want to identify with Hindi or its belt as such. Thanks for the advice.
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1097:RegentsPark
1093:Kwamikagami
228:Start-class
148:free images
31:not a forum
1298:Categories
1077:Largoplazo
903:Report bug
796:Hindi Belt
739:Map Issues
25:Hindi Belt
1085:Kautilya3
937:Creations
886:this tool
879:this tool
536:Archive 1
468:Languages
459:languages
415:Languages
262:Geography
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1273:Thanks @
1022:"Pahari"
892:Cheers.—
776:contribs
764:unsigned
610:BigSteve
576:BigSteve
524:Archives
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1190:Nik9hil
1095:, and
1053:Nik9hil
994:Uanfala
982:Nik9hil
966:Nik9hil
800:my edit
572:the map
495:on the
352:on the
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1185:Source
709:LADave
667:LADave
659:Nepali
234:scale.
126:Google
1156:kwami
725:kwami
683:kwami
665:are?
592:kwami
325:India
314:India
257:India
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1283:talk
1265:talk
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566:Urdu
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1259:. –
1026:not
913:Map
860:RfC
824:to
814:to
487:Low
344:Low
176:TWL
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