1912:: "Refering to Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, the authors create a theory that is intuitively difficult to understand and rather unsystematically infused with metaphor. They do not say a word about historically influential Gestalt theoretical approaches, which would explain the directional energies of notes much more plausibly and naturally than their own approach. It cannot be ruled out that the Theory of Musical Equilibration could make interesting contributions to explaining the expressiveness of music. To achieve this, however, it would have to be made much clearer and more systematic – docked onto already existing theoretical concepts and results of music psychology, with methodologically solid interfaces for experimental testing." (
1057:
1890:
Equilibration" is also valid for the
American understanding of "leading tone", that is, for the perception of the sound quality of the dominant third. In the English Knowledge "Leading tone" there are also music theorists like Ernst Kurth mentioned who describe the sense of the leading tone as perception of a "force". Wolfgang Böhler, one of the best-known Swiss music psychologists, writes about the Theory of Musical Equilibration: "...It cannot be ruled out that the Theory of Musical Equilibration could make interesting contributions to explaining the expressiveness of music."
1179:, litterally 'the descending leading tone'" – from which one may deduce that he considered the expression unusual in (American) English. A Google search for "descending leading tone" gives about 999 results, however. So, the example does show a downward leading tone, but it should at least say where. In addition, any perfect cadence also has a downward leading tone, there is nothing special about this particular example. I will leave it to others to decide wether the example should be removed, or kept with more detailed explanation. —
621:) as an upper leading tone. It seems to refer to Bernward and Saker on this point, but they certainly do not describe the example quoted (Scott Joplin) as a case of upper leading tone. They specifically say that the leading tone leads to the tonic, but never mention the upper leading tone (in the 2008 edition, at least). The article also later seems to refer to Kotska (which I don't have), associating his mention of "tendency tones" with the "upper leading tone
2324:
509:. Since these pages not only include discussion of the scale-degrees, but also occasionally discuss triads and seventh chords built on these scale-degrees, it is important to systemize these pages. This will also curtail the creation of pages for each individual triad and seventh chord, some which may not necessarily contain enough content to be expanded beyond a stub. I invite you to comment on the proposal with thoughts, criticisms, or suggestions. Thanks!
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1414:, I think we should definitely remove or replace the two sound examples, as they include a trill, which is wrong in both of them (as it isn't a trill). The one with a trill from C# to D# is doubly incorrect, as D# was never intended by the composer (as the sharp refers to the C)! I may create a correct version if I ever get time!
2219:. I think what your section heading should say is that explanation would help understanding of the article, not that it needs a reference, because most readers who couldn't understand this article would most likely have more difficulty with references to technical/instructional manuals in a specialized field.
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When I wrote that "people" consider them common enough, I was thinking of the guys who create templates for
Knowledge. I don't suppose that they are all music theorists. Would you think that anyone without any idea of music (and of some elementary music theory) be interested in what a "Leading-tone"
1358:
This example is not particularly known as an example of descending leading tone, and I remain puzzled that it was chosen as illustration here. Everyone is free, of course, to call "leading tone" what they want, but I at least would link the idea of leading tone to that of cadence. With this in mind,
1200:
It seems that the distinction needs to be made or clarified between the motion of a leading tone and the position of the leading tone in relation to the tone it leads to. A leading tone which moves upwards may be called "an upper leading tone", as may a leading tone which is above the tone it leads
947:
I'm not as sure about the tritone resolution example because jazz theorists sometimes use words differently than
Classical theorist. You could certainly call it an augmented 6th but a jazz theorist would definitely call it a tritone substitution. It doesn't have a citation, so I would normally just
1606:
The usual represented interpretations of leading tones are not compatible with the laws of nature. Perceptions of striving forces in tones are impossible and not even imaginable. However, there are leading tones. Here I insert two links to articles that provide a realistic understanding of leading
1583:
Indeed, the example does not seem to be there anymore (it must have been an example with chords in root position and parallel voice leading, resulting in parallel fifths – never mind). As to the mention of "written in first inversion, as described below", the description is in the "Voice-leading"
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Hi everyone, It seems to me that the score example has a trill from C# to D#. While enharmonically the D# is the same as E flat, it doesn't seem to me to be an example of an upper leading tone, which would have the main melodic line going from E flat to D. I suggest perhaps a different example
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I don't know to what "as described below" refers, but certainly not to the example which shows triads in root position. The example should be redone, with triads in first inversion, because as it is it shows something that even a first-year student would not write. Triads in root position cannot
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example, but the page number is different (I should check). And it is about that example that they say what I mentioned above, "Note that although the chord sevenths resolve downward, the leading tones resolve upward". The example will have to be removed, anyway, so that the page number does not
1757:
You seem here to consider that the 7th and the 9th above the root (the dissonances) are "leading tones", but that is not at all the definition given in our article. Do you consider that any note with an obligatory voice leading is a "leading tone"? This is a specific meaning of the German term
1889:
The definitions of the terms "Leitton", "Leading tone" and "Note sensble" actually differ. The term “Leading tone” is broader than the term “Leading tone”. But I think the phenomenon it's about is the same thing, because
Germans don't feel differently than Americans. The "Theory of Musical
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is? Note also that the fragment of the lede that you quote always mentions in full the chord concerned, and adds the notation only in parentheses. You say that this notation is used "throughout the article", but it actually is used only rarely. Anyway, I added a link to
1923:
Don't misundersand me, Bernd
Willimek. I have known about your theory for years now, and I am aware that it could bring a complement to existing theories – including some that are also not mentioned in our article, and that apparently you don't know. See for instance
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Thank you for these observations. I think that when I get home later I will review this discussion on a larger screen (laptop vs smartphone), so I can see most of it without scrolling (and more than 12 words of my response!), and maybe take your suggestion.
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266/5000 It is true that the articles often do not contain the term "Leading Tone" literally. But they contain the term "Theory of
Musical Equilibration". And the "Theory of Musical Equilibration" is nothing more than a new meaningful definition of the
1459:
could be a leading tone, but this rightly is marked as needing a citation: I for one am not familiar with that usage. As I already wrote above, there is a descending leading tone (in
Schenker's sense) in the last two measures of the example, E–D,
2084:, and while I mostly understand the use of the template to generate the notation, I blank on much of what its symbols refer to. There's no name or explicit reference to the symbol system — the article assumes that the reader is familiar with it:
1334:
So what we probably need then is for a single audio examples with no trill (and no D#) in the top stave, and perhaps the example to be put in modern notation (i.e. the sharp in front of the C, perhaps in square brackets to show it's editorial)?
739:
referred to as an upper leading tone either – it struck me as strange, too. I don't have
Benward and Saker, but unless you it's not actually in Benward and Saker or there are sources that dispute it, I can't see a reason to remove/change it.
914:, which at first reading appeared to me an example of parallel 7th, while it really is an example of augmented 6th. Something must be done about all this, in my opinion, and I'll do so as soon as we aggreed. I very strongly doubt that any
754:
The expression "upper leading tone" is not found at all in
Benward and Saker (if I can trust my OCR). About the Scott Joplin and other examples, they write "Note that although the chord sevenths resolve downward, the leading tones resolve
2214:
Sometimes music is like math in that if one does not know the name of a symbol or the name of the system of symbols it is a part of then one may have great difficulty attempting to look it up. However, Knowledge is not a classroom, per
1970:
Here, a completely novel conception of the leading tone experience is defined, which also creates the possibility of understanding the emotional impact of musical harmonies. Perhaps this aspect should be taken up in the article.
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confirms that people consider them common enough. I think that any music theorist reading
English would be aware of them. The question that you implicitly raise is whether en.Knowledge must be considered mainly American ... —
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in the bass should be sung earlier, where it is not formally written. There are indeed two B's in the bass in the measures preceding those represented here, and a debate arose c.1540 about whether these should be made flat by
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reading English would be aware of them." Knowledge is an encyclopedia, not a work on music theory, and as such the article should include, at the bare minimum, references to allow the general reader to learn about the
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Why is it this particular example that is given here, while many examples of a V–I cadence similarly would show a descending leading tone? There is such a leading tone, G–F, in the top part of the example in the
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I think the criteria for a descending leading tone doesn't really depend on whether there's a cadence (compare: the seventh scale degree in major is still the leading note even when it's not near a cadence).--
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for a detailed discussion.) I have been unable to check the reference given to Berger 1987, but I presume that it concerns this debate, and in no way the presence of a descending leading tone in the cadence.
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says, I believe the hyphenated form is really only used as an adjective, as in the term "leading-tone seventh chord." The note itself (which is the subject of this article) would be stylized sans hyphen.
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Is this a standard notation, and is it described anywhere, either on WP or elsewhere? If so, it needs an explicit reference, preferably early in the text rather than buried in one of the many references.
1322:
it seems the descending leading tone then, is not E natural to D in the tenor, but B flat to A in the bass. And it's quite a nice example of a descending leading tone (Thanks Hyacinth and Squandermania!)
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I have never seen this hyphenated except as an adjective. Google ngram shows that "leading-tone" started enjoying more use around 2000, but is still vastly outstripped by the unhyphenated version.
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844:, respectively") – and to assume that the 7th in a 7th chord is an upper leading tone would lead to consider that any degree can become an upper leading tone. This seems to me utterly farfetched.
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896:, because you added this link at a point concerning the resolution of 7ths. There is an additional problem in the present article, in that the example showing the tritone substitution has a C
2114:
This notation apparently is common in music theory teaching in the US (insofar as one still teaches tonal theory in the US). It is an adaptation of Gottfried Weber's usage, as illustrated
1945:(2017), etc., which all discuss harmonic progressions with leading tones, about which they provide new insights. Obviously, you are not the only one to have reflected on such progressions.
1866:
effect? Are you sure that your understanding of that German concept is the same as our understanding of the American (or the French) one? Riemann, at least, indicates that the concept of
998:, where the term is nowhere mentioned. It also refers to an article by J. Day-O'Connell, which I read. Day-O'Connell probably coined the expression, which is worth quoting in our article.
1234:
Why does it say that "the debate over which was documented in Rome c.1540," while the debate in question did not concern what is shown in the example? (The debate was about whether the B
1962:
As a supplement to the leading tone discussion, I would like to refer to our paper recently published in the journal “Auditory, Perception & Cognition” (Taylor & Francis):
944:) and was clearly referring to the 7th of a dom7 resolving as an example of an upper leading tone. If it's not in the citation and seems wrong, you should definitely delete that.
940:
If they don't mention upper leading tone in Benward and Saker, then it should definitely be deleted. Does it have the "Maple Leaf Rag" example on p. 203? This was added in 2010 (
1280:, which should not be considered cases of descending leading tone). And there are two less visible ones (both D–C) in the example from Beethoven's Piano sonata n. 5 in the
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Thank you for that information. But it isn't (just) the geography of the readership that concerns me, but the type of readers. Your own words reveal the difference: "...
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The Schenkerian informations that I give are always verified: I am a compulsive reader of Schenker ;–)). But I think that the expression "upper leading tone" applied to
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You could also add to the upper leading tone section by adding some Schenkerian ideas to it as well. It would be good to have some verified information on the topic. :)
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6 as dissonant 7th and 9th in the dominant minor ninth (with or without root) is a case of obligatory resolution of the dissonances, which is utterly different. —
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1874:. I am afraid that such fine distinctions (you mention yourself "a new meaningful definition") belong to other discussions than what is possible on Knowledge. —
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1365:–A could not be a leading tone, because there is no cadence on A (which obviously is a dominant). It seems to me, therefore, that even if some might consider B
267:, theory terminology, music theorists, and musical analysis on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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371:, is the cause of serious uncertainties at several Knowledge articles, and in the broader literature. Specifically in this case, the leading note in the
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1175:, § 10, p. 13, John Rothgeb felt compelled to add a footnote: "In German theoretical writings the second step of the scale is sometimes rererred to as
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specifically refer to the 3d of the dominant, even if in German (or at least in his view), any note with an obligatory leading could be considered a
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1540 whether B needed a flat or not. What we need is an example of a clear Phrygian cadence; this particular example is not clear in this respect —
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1371:–A an example of descending leading tone, it would form a very bad example for this WP article, as the whole remains highly questionable.
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added a mention of where the descending leading tone is to be found in the example. There are aspects that remain unclear to me, though:
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within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the
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What might be considered a downward leading-tone in this example is the progression E–D in the tenor. Schenker certainly called this an
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Cadence featuring an upper leading tone from a well known 16th-century lamentation, the debate over which was documented in Rome c.1540.
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1739:, but a simple search shows that so to say none of the texts linked above contains the words "leading tone"! The only one that does is
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I never encountered the expression "upper leading tone" applied to the resolution of a dominant seventh, nor to any degree other than
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2439:– Is and has always been the most common form; the present title looks like either an idiosyncratic mistake or the adjectival form.
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means a note that leads to another and creates the expectation of this other, particularly the note a semitone under the tonic (
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The sharp above the stave is not referring to the upper note of a trill as I (and probably others) previously imagined, it's a
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As a dominant minor ninth chord without a root, contains the third, the minor seventh and the minor ninth as leading tones.
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follow each other, even when the first is a diminished triad. In first inversion, parallel chords are fully acceptable. —
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Why, what, where, and how does this article's tone and voice need to be made more consistent with the rest of Knowledge?
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In C major and C minor, it is a B diminished triad (though it is usually written in first inversion, as described below)
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that the expression "upper leading tone" is unclear. I think that "descending leading tone" is clearer. And I note that
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Here some links about the “Theory of Musical Equilibration” which provides a realistic understanding of leading tones:
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812:(as the article in its present version seems to imply, when it says "The lower and upper leading-tones, scale degree
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But I think that neither these theories nor yours should figure in a vulgarizing encyclopaedia such as Knowledge. —
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Hi great to have you here! I know this reply is a bit late, but I think the info you want about the notation is at
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to, even those are opposites, and the terminology used in the literature and scholarship regarding leading tones.
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is not a tendency tone in all cases. And a tendency tone is not the same as a leading tone. The example from the
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I had not listened to the sound examples (I feel the score itself so much better than Midi sound), but the two c
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Leading-tone&diff=363386993&oldid=363386689&diffmode=source
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is not under discussion at all, if we assume that scale not to be diatonic. Some of us have thought that both
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and also correct 'leading-note' to 'leading note', which is the UK term. Also never seen this with a hyphen.
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Two links, but to the same article, it appears. As a self-published blog, this does not seem to qualify as a
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as an example of descending leading tone seems to me rather misleading, especially in view of the discussion
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Why, what, where, and how does this article have an unclear citation style and what should be done about it?
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which was originally uploaded by Hyacinth. I agree that it doesn't seem to show a downward leading-tone. --
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Thanks for sending that link about the papal choir debate: interesting reading! From looking at the link:
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In the section about the leading-tone triad, one reads the following statement followed by an example:
1171:, § 10, 1935 p. 34, 1954 p. 43), a "descending leading tone," especially in a contrapuntal context. In
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is spearheading a proposal to unify the layout of the scale-degree pages. The discussion can be found
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is of course incorrect. I think that the best solution would be to remove this example completely. —
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in the article shows what has been termed a "secundary leading tone", and this in turn might justify
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in the tenor , but the same could be found in any perfect cadence. To quote this particular case of
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Advances in Multiple Viewpoint Systems and Applications in Modelling Higher Order Musical Structure
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I have no problem accepting that the 7th in a dominant seventh is a tendency tone – but certainly
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It might be more interesting to mention that, in German – and particularly in Schenker –, even
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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Does anyone know why the title is hyphenated? I've only seen it as two words with no hyphen.
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if you're reading this, I've enjoyed seeing all your examples in music theory articles! :)
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subsection. It might be better to link to it, but I don't immediately see how to do it. —
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The article uses the term "diatonic" without adequate explanation. This term, along with
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/score/o/6/o6edxpqjxyxmltdfxqmnpfjrk6jmmqs/o6edxpqj.png
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What example needs, or needed, to be redone? I assume an image no longer present.
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The players for the auto-generated audio from LilyPond notations all link to "
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The new representation of the leading tone phenomenon can also be found here:
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stick a on it and wait a few months before deleting it. I have Mark Levine's
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I deleted the sentences about the seventh of a seventh chord resolving down.
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I'll do all that, but I am somewat too busy with other things just now. —
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Why does the caption not say that this example if from Juan Escribano's
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is common in German, not specifically Schenkerian. I have to check that.
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I am unfamiliar with the notation used throughout this article, e.g.,
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I have a later edition of Bernward and Saker. They definitely give the
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In Kotska, he refers to it as a "tendency tone". I've never heard of a
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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File:Escribano - Lamentation, upper leading-tone cadence diatonic.mid
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is for Schenker an upper leading tone; but it is not a tendency tone.
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of course are sharpened by musica ficta and the idea that the
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File:Escribano - Lamentation, upper leading-tone cadence.png
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It is not the best example. G# and A is a better example.
1762:. Even Riemann is quite clear about this, when he writes:
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There are two (both F–E) in the examble illustrating the
873:!) is considered an upper leading tone. In a Schenkerian
673:. Has anyone ever encountered this expression applied to
391:? Be ready to have comfortable assumptions challenged! –
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LilyPond audio players unlinked to their respective mp3s
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You made this problem apparent when you added a link to
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as a "secundary upper leading tone". But to assume that
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may be an upper leading tone, one would have to accept
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need special coverage, so we started up a new article:
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Well, this is a complex case. The article claims that
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Given Escribano Lamentation example score with trill
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Riemann makes it very clear in this that the French
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of this type always is the third of the dominant. (
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197:This article has not yet been rated on Knowledge's
2018:built on the seventh scale degree in a major key (
498:Proposal to unify the layout of scale-degree pages
297:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1106:Hi Michael Sorry I meant the one that links to:
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
952:and I couldn't find "upper leading tone" in it.
2152:consider them common enough. I think that any
1264:(No, I wrote too fast, the descending F–E are
1803:, 1st edition, 1882, p. 516, my translation.)
174:
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1935:Modal Function in Rock and Heavy Metal Music
1719:Music. The Vision of Humanities and Sciences
828:, have a tendency to move to scale degree
2070:harv error: no target: CITEREFGoldman1965 (
2024:), while a leading-tone seventh chord is a
2330:It has been proposed in this section that
1870:is broader than that of "leading tone" or
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988:While working on an analysis of Debussy's
696:I cannot recall ever seeing it applied to
408:I added one audio example to the article.
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1112:i.e. the one with four staves in D minor.
560:I assume it's because of the accidental.
2595:Unknown-importance Music theory articles
2189:: I don't see what else one could do. —
2296:https://en.wikipedia.org/File:Undefined
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1623:2A02:8071:3E81:9900:659D:6D32:B2B6:6A46
1088:, or both? In any case, we should ping
1080:Which sound file are you referring to?
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2470:has been notified of this discussion.
2118:, and the presence of these signs in
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387:. Why not have a look, and join the
257:This article is within the scope of
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203:It is of interest to the following
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1650:. Can you offer something better?—
277:Knowledge:WikiProject Music theory
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2600:WikiProject Music theory articles
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1862:Is it not rather a theory of the
1714:An essay about happy memory songs
1610:Academia: What is a leading tone?
918:source could be found describing
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1914:Einmal mehr: Musik und Emotionen
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1614:Prezi: What is a leading tone?
657:article, about the resolution
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2133:17:11, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
2109:19:10, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
1990:https://psyarxiv.com/g29xy/--
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1427:00:06, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
271:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
2367:). Please base arguments on
1550:13:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
1177:der abwärtssteigende Leitton
1025:22:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
1011:21:23, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
965:18:46, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
936:21:35, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
926:as an upper leading tone. —
750:20:28, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
727:18:56, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
691:09:26, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
592:21:02, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
2006:Notation? Reference needed!
1699:Music and Emotion in Cinema
1629:) 07:42, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
991:La fille aux cheveux de lin
804:as a lower leading tone to
477:12:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
442:12:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
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2014:A leading-tone triad is a
1282:Leading-tone seventh chord
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1133:That score was entered by
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556:16:03, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
541:06:17, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
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299:project's importance scale
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1694:Music on Stage, P. 202ff
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260:WikiProject Music theory
1918:Schweitzer Musikzeitung
1602:What is a leading tone?
2371:, and keep discussion
2270:Roman numeral notation
2187:Roman numeral analysis
2062:dominant seventh chord
2038:considers and notates
1928:Facts and Counterfacts
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1092:who created those. --
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428:Unclear citation style
385:Diatonic and chromatic
363:Diatonic and chromatic
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2094:Template:No footnotes
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105:No original research
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2144:Hucbald.SaintAmand
2125:Hucbald.SaintAmand
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