1689:
rate at which it changes and the effects, if any, of said change. Scientists will state that erosion will eventually reduce the mountains in the eastern USA to lower elevations. Is this "lowering of elevations" through "erosion" bad? No, we live in a dynamic system (the universe), and we can not stop these processes. Humans tend to like things to "stay the same" and generally are, for some reason, scared of change. Let us at least describe the reason opposition to mountaintop mining exists and stay away from describing it as being concerned with the "physical alteration of the landscape." The landscape will change--when the temperatures rise, when sea-level rises, etc... I'd follow facts--does it degrade water quality, reduce habitat, provide jobs, and others so that people can reach a decision--on their own. I don't think
Knowledge should "preach." Rather, I'd like to see Wiki provide honest facts.
1125:, are often stored nearby in open-air pools isolated from natural waterways by earthen dams. This procedure allows any usable coal particles to separate from the water and settle to the bottom. Once coal removal is completed, the mining operators back stack spoil from the next area to be mined into the now empty pit. After backstacking and grading of spoil has been completed topsoil (or a topsoil substitute) is layered over the spoil layer. Next grass seed is spread in a mixture of seed, fertilizer, and mulch made from recycled newspaper. Dependant on mostly surface owner wishes the land will then be further reclaimed by adding trees if the post mining land use is forest land or wildlife habitat. If the land owner has requested other post mining land uses the land can reclaimed to be used as pastor land, economic development or other uses specified in the SMCRA.
1975:
arguments made to say that mountaintop mining is "wrong" or "bad" due simply to the topographical alteration. Since "natural" erosion will eventually lead to lower elevations, it isn't the change in elevation that is alarming or controversial. It may be the rate of said change is a problem, but nobody is suggesting we go build Mount Saint Helens back up to its "pre-blow" dimensions--and that was a big change. Rather it is "man" that is changing the mountain top. I'd simply describe "changes in topography are often cited as ..... but that nobody complains when natural process alter topography (give examples if you want)."
2045:
482:
1066:
MTR mines utilize small hollow fills in combination with back stacking on bench. Trying to confuse the MTR mining and the valley fill issues is an attempt paint all surface mining on the top of a ridge with the more controversial practice of valley filling. Using the word “extreme topographic destruction and deforestation of the summit” ” is inflammatory. Would these same terms seem appropriate in the description of what happens when a contractor starts building a new housing sub-division.
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1182:", while technically factual (though unsourced), still reeks of POV. Unless some direct mention is made of environmental concerns in the Introduction, shouldn't this be moved to the Criticism section? Editing this to read "It is most closely associated with coal mining in the Appalachian Mountains, located in the eastern United States" would leave the clarity of location untouched, while removing the unexpected and out-of-place reference to ecological concerns.
876:
2046:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/008/10.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/008/index.html&usg=__guTK_Xuaq6w1781p53zKF7abz4I=&h=394&w=525&sz=30&hl=en&start=15&sig2=hpXp6ZW7L7L6Xg3iYUw3Cw&tbnid=qOhmcl8AeTPpqM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=132&ei=P6wpSZzbHqDMefe8vMQC&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmartin%2Bcounty%2Bcoal%2Bimpoundment%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den
365:
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concerns about a POV fork. I ask you to please discuss moving the content with other editors because I don't think this is a non-controversial move. The reason I reverted you is that when you created the new article, you violated the terms of the GFDL by not referring to the fact that you had copied the text from this page, but rather it was presented as though it was all your own work. This is a violation of the
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overburden from each strip placed in the excavation produced by the previous strip. As far as I know, mountaintop removal mining is not done in long strips, and so more resembles open-pit mining (paradoxically, however, without the pit) than strip mining. I'm not a coal miner, but there are probably some out there who can correct any errors in my statement.
3095:), but it looks like the current title was chosen as a compromise between "Mountaintop removal" (skews anti-industry) and "Mountaintop mining" (skews pro-industry). It seems we're all agreed that the topic in question is literally mining after the removal of a mountaintop, so I see no compelling reason to change. --
3427:"Critics contend that...", this transition sentence comes across as ambiguous. The opposing groups pertinent to this topic are not clear. I also do not think that a "Critics" section is necessary or helpful. Would a section providing historical context of opposing groups that have been involved be more effective?
2544:, they would be justified if the enclosed terms were being used in an unconventional or unattrubatble manner, but given that they appear to all be cited through reliable sources, use of double-quotes is unjustified. In such cases, because the purpose is to mention the word rather than use it, the Manual of Style
3407:
Hi
Knowledge, I added a reference to the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act of 1977 to the section on reclamation of Mountaintop Removal mine sites. I also included links to other relevant pages from within the section, including the wiki pages on erosion and reforestation. I felt that it was
2898:
Mountain Top mining always involves the removal of the mountain top. The process described in the article is not disputed. Explosives are used to take off the summit ridge, the waste is dumped in the valleys, etc etc. It is a form of surface mining... Surface mining does not involve shafts.
2823:
The aforementioned source describes their anger that the government has not adopted their terminology. The continued use of MTRM instead of MTM is a continued demonstration on the blatant POV of this article. MTR/MTRM will still be referenced in the article and it will be done in a way to remain
2651:
This is possibly the worst offender in terms of POV in the article. Beginning with "Some artists have been leaders in the fight against the process of mountaintop removal," it reads right off as more or less a direct advertisement for a cause. That section should not even exist, at least as named and
2601:
It appears that this article, which is about an apparently passionate subject matter, has had a lot of non-neutrality built into the content. Avoiding bias in an encyclopediac article is relatively simple; for a subject like this, the article should discuss the definition of the subject, its context,
2570:
While it appears that prior attempts have cleaned some of these up, I notice some still remain. One quote that stands out is "According to SMCRA, the topsoil is supposed to be removed and set aside for later reclamation." The sentence is cited with what appears to be a good, reliable source. Were the
2373:
groups who oppose MTR or videos by them, some were EPA stuff (the two i kept are). Not sure if they were the right ones to keep but something had to be done. I also added the no more links tag, so if links are to be added, they should be discussed here first, subjects like this tend to draw lots of
2325:
I will remove the reference to them in the "Process" section - which itself needs much further amplification. The "sludge pond" section really doesn't belong in this article at all but needs to be in a separate article or as an expansion to the (currently incomplete) Tailings pond article. I'll let
1855:
Coal's mining and use as a fuel have long been controversial amongst environmentalists due to potential environmental impact and coal burning's potential role in global warming. Much of the controversy over MTR ,however, stems from both the extreme topological and ecological changes that the mining
1803:
the controversy is over. If the statement doesn't entirely cover the controversy (implied by the some) than it seems we can put what else is controversial. Not to mention I've heard few lamer resons than this"Some people just don't like coal and oppose MTR as a way to incrementally kill all mining"
1177:
OK, so maybe I should just go ahead and make the edit, but this is my first time actually making any kind of a contribution (not quite the first time I've wanted to, though :-) ). It seems to me that, in the
Introduction, the phrase, "It is most closely associated with coal mining in the Appalachian
1132:
seams, miners can often repeat the blasting process to mine over a dozen seams on a single mountain, increasing the mine depth each time. This can result in a vertical descent of hundreds of extra feet into the earth. Many of these seams mined in the MTR method are to thin to be mined using any other
2992:
Baffling. How exactly is this a POV title when you concede that "Mountain Top mining always involves removal of the mountain top."? You're on slightly firmer ground with the precision argument, but I had never heard your proposed title, so I decided to play the hits game (phrases in quotation marks,
2525:
Though it appears to have been discussed in years past, I took a look at this article, and it only took a moment or two for it to reek of bias to me. I've found numerous places where both the writing and the content appear to have a conspicuous lack of neutrality, earning a flag for each. To go over
2195:
Strip mining is so named, not because it "strips" off the overlying rock, but because the mining is done in long strips. In contour stripping (in mountainous terrain), mining is done in long strips along the outcrop. In area stripping (in flat ground), mining is again done in long strips, with the
2114:
If you want the full shpeel see the US tag talk portion of the page. In short its not that this page isn't centered on the US, its that all evidence points to MTR being centered in the US. If we can get some references on global MTR sites or something like that than I think the tag could be placed
1974:
I'd highlight the contradiction that people who oppose mountaintop mining do not oppose "natural" erosion that will reduce the elevations of the mountains. Simply expose a flaw in that argument does not mean that mountaintop mining is any more "acceptable." Rather, it simply removes a flaw in many
1945:
Because of the physically destructive nature of the practice, MTR mining is controversial, and is disparaged by environmentalists, local residents, and others. Controversy over the practice stems from both the extreme topological and ecological changes that the mining site undergoes, as well as from
1887:
Because of the destructive nature of the practice, Mountaintop removal mining is controversial among environmentalists, local residents, and others; controversy over the practice stems from both the extreme topological and ecological changes that the mining site undergoes, as well and the storage of
1320:
Reverted back to include Toxic West
Virginia reference. This is not link spam, this is an actual documentary that is directly related to this article. Thus this is a related to this piece and needs to be included. Also, you do not gain anything from google as wiki marks all links do not follow!
1136:
I have spent many years of my life working in the design and planing of MTR mines. I have retired from the industry for 15 years and love the mountains of East KY and WV. I have a healthy respect for the emotions that this subject brings out in good people on both sides. Wiki is not the place for
2644:
For the most part, this sections problems are NOT neutrality-related, but amidst the poor organization of it, it also placed some more undue weight on "critics contend"s. This section is on impacts, not "critics," so it should follow a clear structure that reflects this, based around a small number
2612:
The first half is allright. "Peer-reviewed studies show that mountaintop mining has serious environmental impacts..." however, is apparently un-cited, only sourcing the "adverse human health impacts." That level of detail doesn't belong in the introduction; mention of criticism can be warranted, if
2485:
Also, I reverted the page move to a capitalised title because this article describes a mining process and doesn't appear to be a proper noun. The article itself doesn't use capitals except for when using acronyms and both the websites used as external links use lower case. So I can't understand why
1688:
I get concerned when the page reads the "main issue has been over the physical alteration of the landscape." Actually, nature will erode the mountains anyway. Since nobody is seeking to stop "natural" erosion, I don't think the controversy is the "alteration" of the landscape so much as it is the
1449:
I just did some major re-edits to the page, but my main point for writing on the discussion page is that I removed a US-centric tag from the page. The reason I removed it is that, while this page does concentrate on the US primarily, the practice takes place almost exclusively, as far as I've ever
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seams beneath. The overburden is then moved by various mechanically means to areas of the ridge previously mined. These areas are the most economical area of storage as they are located close to the active pit of exposed coal. If the ridge topography is to steep to adequately handle the amount of
1065:
This is the worse POV I have ever discovered on Wiki. From the first sentence the inflammatory and prejudice words flow. “often referred to as mountaintop mining/valley fills (MTM/VF),” Not all MTR mines involves valley fills. Some mines use the excess spoil to reclaim older pre-law mines. Other
2260:
It is not stated in the article that either of the two sludge ponds mentioned, either at Marsh Fork
Elementary School, or the Martin County Sludge Spill, are related to MTR. If they are related to MTR, this fact should be stated and documented. If not, they should be moved to the article on coal
2179:
Isn't this just a kind of strip mining? Isn't the main difference that this tends to remove more surface layers (and are not expected to restore them)? In theory a strip mine might be shallow and could work its way beyond the horizon, by having one working trench and placing the removed surface
2679:
I agree with a lot of what you say and have made some changes to the article. The "Community action" section has been cut back a lot, and the title changed to "Books and films". I'm removing the tags, and ask that you edit the article in the usual way to make any further changes that are needed.
2580:
Similarly, "Critics contend that MTR is a destructive and unsustainable practice..." doesn't appear to be cited, and is another classic example of weasel words? Who, precisely, are the critics? It should either have a reliable source cited right there that echoes the same statement, or should be
2471:
I was asked to review what you've done here and I've reverted you and deleted the criticism page. I don't really have much of an opinion about this article because I know nothing about this subject but shunting the criticism off to the side on an article that isn't excessive in length does raise
2663:
Overall, I see that this article DOES have the potential to be neutral, but it's got a long way to go. And right now, the lack of neutrality is almost certainly the biggest single detriment to the article: normally lack of solid content and inline citations/sources are the biggest hurdle toward
2321:
I work for MSHA in a
Division responsible for slurry/tailings ponds. The Shumate Prep Plant and Impoundment (near Marsh Fork school) and the Brushy Fork Prep Plant and Impoundment up the valley, both have received almost all their coal from underground mines. This will change a bit as the MTR
1528:
So, the links section is too big, and I'm having difficulty whittling it down because so many of the different links are so similar (community groups against MTR). For most of them it would be difficult to justify which ones are more important, but I don't advocate deleting all of them because
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is supposed to be removed and set aside for later reclamation. however, coal companies are often granted waivers and instead reclaim the mountain with "topsoil substitute." The waivers are granted if adequate amounts of topsoil are not naturally present on the rocky ridge top. Once the area is
2389:
The external links section had indeed become overgrown, but such a mass deletion of all links except the government's seems slightly suspect, especially for an article about a controversial practice. Perhaps rather than leaving those references absent from the page, we could summarize the main
1821:
I don't have a good draft for how it should read but here's my two cents on the big picture. Some people don't like energy, period. They're called luddites and rarely operate in the open because their ideals are so ugly once you work out the math (90%+ human death rates to get to a sustainable
1387:
Below is text I removed which I believe to be too biased or promotional. I think it would be good to have a summary of movements that are fighting against MTR, which summary could include a lot of material from this addition, but a laundry list of musicians who released albums and wrote books
2305:
The photo shown in the link above does not show a MTR mine above the impoundment. I live in the center of the MTR area and have worked on MTR jobs. Most MTR mines do not have sludge ponds. Sludge ponds are used in conjunction with "coal washer plants" that primarily porcess coal mined from
2856:
for this article to have a so-called neutral POV. With the word "removal", it is "biased" in favor of environmentalists, without the word "removal" it is biased in favor of industry. As long as both are covered in the lead sentence, what's the big deal? The only way
Knowledge could remain
1152:
The coal slurry impoundments mentioned in the "process" section have nothing to do with MTR mining. They are for disposal of waste materials from coal washing operations, which is done regardless of the mining method. Most pre-date the MTR mining going on in their vicinity. Mention of the
2619:
Although it's not until the "process" section right thereafter where it's even explained how deforestation directly comes into play, the fourth paragraph of the "overview" section switches right from describing the location of MRM, and then launching into a well-cited series of notes on the
2881:, "titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but no more precise than that." So if "mountaintop mining" unambiguously defines the fact that the mountain top is removed, then perhaps the word "removal" is over-precision and can be removed.
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in the appropriate section, using in-line citations to reference them. The content of the links is far more valuble if included in the body of the article, rather than as a bulk list at the end of the article. I may have been a little excessive in my external link removal, but IMO the
1355:
In the
Economics section a reference is needed for the sentence "Proponents argue that in certain geologic areas, MTR and similar forms of surface mining allow the only access to thin seams of coal that traditional underground mining would not be able to mine. MTR is some times the most
2555:
uses of double-quotes are unjustified, though, as some properly fulfil the use of scare quotes, such as the term "fill material", as it is in reference to the term being ill-defined. The quotes are unjustified merely when the term has a well-cited or consensus definition that is being
1752:
My question is, how should it read? I think we should say what the controversy over MTR is, and not wishy-washy around it. If there is something besides the issues listed that is controversial about MTR, it seems like it should be added to make this page all the more encyclopedic.
2967:. I see that the acronyms used in the article are either MTR or MTM, there is no MTRM acronym in the article. I suppose "mountaintop removal" unambiguously defines a mining operation, unless one might remove a mountain for some reason other than resource extraction. Maybe, per
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And then there's the crowd that have no problem with energy, no problem with coal, yet find MTR to be a bad idea. This is the most attractive of the opposition positions and all three factions will tend to make public statements on these grounds to maximize their popularity and
2238:
While the
Buffalo Creek Flood illustrates the danger of slurry ponds, this particular dam wasn't a result of mountaintop removal, but rather another type of coal mining. Of course, the article doesn't directly attribute it to MTR, but perhaps another example would be better.
2819:– WP:POVTITLE WP:PRECISION. Mountaintop Removal Mining is "new speak" used by environmental groups. MTM is the name used in text books, non-agenda publications, the US Goverment, etc. To illustrate this point I refer to one of the POV references used in the article:
2656:
in order for the article to be neutral. But to lay it out as if it's accepted consensus that opposing MRM is "the good fight" is downright bias. Some of the contents could be worked into a proper "criticism" section where appropriate, but by and large the section needs to be
2602:(history, legal environment, etc.) and then its impacts, (economic, ecological, health) including any reception/response/criticism arising from it; even with the apparent majority being critical of the subject, it's still possible to maintain neutrality while not giving
3269:
It's Hobet, not Hobit, you ignorant, murderous environmental liberals. As for POV, this entire article is written from one that paints all capitalists and workers as some kind of demonic entity. It's skewed so far left that it's nothing more than socialist propaganda.
2501:
I removed the forced image size of the two pictures in the article heading, they were pretty big, and overlapped (on was centred). They maybe should be a little bigger and moved somewhere further down the article (or not). Also there is an image of a
Dragline at the
2452:) and the see also links that were to opponents of MTR mining, as they are more related to the criticism of MTR than to MTR itself. The leading two paragraphs are still in this article, but the criticism is large enough to warrent its own. The criticism section of
1403:
Writers in the region have been active in the fight against mountaintop removal. In 2005, 16 Kentucky writers released a public statement condemning the mining practice, which led to the issue being widely discussed in the state media for the first time. Those
1360:. I do not know how to add citation. Someone please add this site. Click "employment" on left margin and then "employment/ wages by county" for detailed informaition. This same site also has some great information of reclamationa and post mining land uses.
1822:
luddite world) that few actually openly adhere to the ideology. Other people don't like coal because they perceive it as dirty and ecologically unsound. Any technique that enhances the economic viability of coal is going to get dumped on by these greens.
1642:
Hmmm, I like that idea, I think it'll certainly helps us all work on inevitable POV battles on a one by one basis, as well as laying the criticisms out better, for all to see. The biodiversity section and sludge ponds are already starting to look good
1507:
I don't like the specification "in the U.S." because I think it is unneccesary. As stated elsewhere on this page no references have been found to MTR outside the U.S. I'll give it a few days, but if no references can be found I think they should be
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Lastly, I see mention of "desired geological material," which strikes me as an unusual way to describe mineral resources. This feels like it could be another example of weasel-wording, in a manner as to try and distance it from more "accepted"
2070:
Has there been any progress on getting a free photo of a valley fill? There are a lot at Flickr; it's just a question of sending a Flickr Mail to the photographer and requesting that they change their license on that photo to Creative Commons.
2533:
This isn't quite as serious a problem as the POV one, but it still further compounds things. Many of the issues here might not be the result of deliberate bias, but nonetheless exemplify what to strive to avoid when writng a neutral article.
975:
1436:, a group of concerned citizens that has been one of the leaders in the fight against mountaintop removal mining. In 2006, West Virginia writers released a similar authors statement and in 2000 one of West Virginia's best known authors,
1656:(leaving a summary and a link to the main article). Only two of the sections above are stated in the main article and that section already takes up 1/2 of the page, although I think the sludge pond should be considered an issue with
1946:
the storage of waste material generated from the mining and processing of the coal. Advocates of MTR point out its efficiency, its ability to provide jobs, and the resulting increase of flat land in areas where there is often little.
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it was capped and there doesn't appear to be any discussion here. I don't have any personal objection to it being capitalised if it is decided that is appropriate but it doesn't seem consistent with the MOS or with its usual usage.
2869:) 12:06, 30 August 2012 (UTC) Another thought: Do mining operations ever put an underground mine shaft on the top of a mountain, mine at the top of the mountain by extracting coal up the shaft, leaving the mountaintop intact, and
1725:"Some controversy over the practice stems from both the extreme topological and ecological changes that the mining site undergoes, as well and the storage of waste material generated from the mining and processing of the coal."
1780:"Some controversy over the practice stems from both the extreme topological and ecological changes that the mining site undergoes, as well and the storage of waste material generated from the mining and processing of the coal."
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or “hollow fill”. A front-end loader or excavator then removes the coal, where it is transported to a an often on-site processing plant. and washed. Millions of gallons of by-product from this coal processing, called coal
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reveals that most were critical of the practice, so I suggest (see also my suggestion under the "Criticism" heading of this discussion page) we put those two subheaders under the Criticism section of the article.
2008:
Anyone have a quality photo of a valley fill? The article refers to these over and over, but the textual description is difficult to convey what one actually is. Please include a photo thumbnail if you have one.
1454:
located in the US. While I've heard about plenty of strip mining in other countries, and a few MTR sites out west, but I've never heard of an MTR site in another country, so basically MTR is as American as
1861:
My guess is (observing some of your statements) you might not like the GW tie in. The reason I inserted it is to get a full view of what the controversy is over, and, like you said, go general to specific.
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either), not just MTR, but that is a whole other kettle of fish. Maybe once Social causes (defiantly part of the criticism portion) and health concerns are added a split should take place...thoughts?--
2249:
Inclusion of the Buffalo Creek disaster in the mountaintop removal article is highly misleading, as it implies that the disaster was connected to mountaintop removal. This example whould be removed.
1341:
about the many documentaries or public awareness boosts that mountaintop removal has received recently (Appalachian Voices' "ilovemountains.org" would be another example for such a section), and move
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removing it? If so, then perhaps this article needs the word "removal" to disambiguate this type of mining from the underground shaft type which is done on a mountaintop. If mountain top mining
1156:
Also, draglines are used to excavate the blasted overburden, above the coal - not the coal. The coal is removed with front-end loaders and trucks, or shovels and trucks if the seam is thick.
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Additionally, the proper name is Mountain Top Mining. MTR is only used by environmentalists... Google: "Mountain Top Removal Mining" the only results are from environmentalist sites.
1835:
I believe a good open would recognize the anti-coal and anti-energy aspects of MTR controversy while concentrating on those opponents who are merely upset about this specific technique.
3559:
2398:(Media and Organizations were the two main subheadings of the former external links) somewhere else in the article -- in an encyclopaedic style, of course, rather than listing links!
2275:
There are MTR mines above both the Marsh Fork School and at Martin County Coal, where the Oct 2000 spill occurred. I have personally seen both of these mine sites and photos are here
1623:... this is obviously a huge deal (if this sounds PoV, just look at the "External Links" section), in my opinion "newsworthy" enough to have its own section in an encyclopedic article.
1363:
Also please add a section on Reclamation and Post mining land uses. A wonderful citation for this section would be the video from the state of Kentucky's web site on Coal Education.
1601:
My vote would be to keep Controversy as part of the MTR core article, but to further break up this section into distinct sub-sections. I could easily see the following subheaders:
2026:.org has some good images on their flickr site. I'm currently in contact with someone at the organization in an attempt to be allowed to use the images b/c they are copyrighted.
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3388:
Hello, I have added informaiton to the legislation section. Some information pertained to what was previously posted, but I have added the most recent information I could find.
1345:
there. I'd feel much more comfortable about including the link within the article if the advocate for doing so wasn't a representative of the company who produced the film...
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of core, well-established facts, such as the previously-mentioned section on deforestation. Then it should follow up with more specific supporting notes on each major point.
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Both terms are used, both are used to advocate a POV position, so neutrality and commonname don't help us much here. However in the form described here, mountaintops are
2571:
statement a known lie, the use of the phrase "according to" would be justified. However, as the exception is based on the granting of waivers, which aren't gauranteed.
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Unless someone can make serious corrections I will change the section on "Process" to the following in order to remove POV comments and add more detailed facts: : -->
2824:
NPOV and certainly not how MTM is currently referenced. Precision: As discusssed below, MTM is surface mining and always requires the removal of the mountaintop.
2180:
layers behind it as it progressed. Removing a mountain top implies not gluing together a replacement (which is not practical with current costs and materials). --
1031:
I added citation needed flags to the criticism section. This needs attention from an experienced Wikipedian who can correct the weasel words and poor formatting.
3330:
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getting to B/GA+ status, but this article already has way, way more good sources listed than any other Start-class I've seen. It just needs stronger neutrality.
2624:
is problematic, again applying undue weight. Rather, it should be further down the article, as one of the core statements of the "environmental impacts" section.
1481:
I tried to include "U.S." where sentences related specifically to the U.S. I also added a reference to Peru's Yanacocha gold mine, which appears to use MTR.
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writers were also active in getting more national coverage for the topic, placing editorials in nationally-read newspapers such as The Washington Post
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included in a neutral manner. As is, it appears to give undue weight to criticism, as this article is not "Criticism of Mountaintop mining removal."
2861:
though doesn't the operation in fact "remove" a mountain top, i.e., after the mining is done, is not the surveyed elevation of the mountain lower?
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1428:. In 2006, Kentucky musicians banded together to create a compact disc of music that opposed mountaintop removal. The result was the bestselling
1050:
really seems to cite the burning of coal as Environmental Enemy #1; not the industry, and certainly not MTR. I moved this fact to the article
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the article, it also could be construed to try and minimize the weight of this piece of legislation which is core and critical to the article.
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deforestation taking place there. Such sentences are well-sourced and written in a manner that on its own is satisfactorally neutral, but its
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operations nearby start up - but the slurry imprisonments have nothing to do with MTR - they would be needed regardless of the mining method.
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Agreed the article should be titled mountaintop mining and mounaintop removal mining should simply link to this page, and not be the title.
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in the title, rather than one or the other, is a fair compromise? But checking out Wiktionary, since 14 January 2007, the entry has been
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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which requires the original authors be credited with their work. Please don't move it again without a consensus with other editors.
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NOTE: The thread about the Buffalo Creek Flood was moved from another section of the Discussion page to here, for semantic cohesion.
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per BDD, further, you can mine at the top of the mountain by tunneling without removal, so it becomes ambiguous with the rename --
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articles on limnology- or oceanography-related topics, as well as to ensure that limnology and oceanography articles are properly
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cost-effective method of extracting coal and provides high paying jobs." A good reference can be found on the web at the site
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Despite a lack of evidence to the contrary I edited in the poorly worded statement "More generally many object to the use of
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article to redefine Mountaintop Removal Mining as a type of strip mining. Perhaps you should consult with others first.
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section, rather than the article text? If you don't approve of this, then maybe we could move create a new subsection of
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by far most common in the US, so yeah, its not much help focusing on another country that hardly practices MTR at all. --
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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As you can see, it's very mixed usage. I agree with Wbm that both possibilities are POV (cf. the repeated clashes over
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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of the external links section in any article should be about the subject itself, not about opposition to the subject.--
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Is there a specific term for mining on the summit of a hill instead of a mountain or are they called the same thing?
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https://web.archive.org/web/20081120041942/http://westvirginia.sierraclub.org/newsletter/archives/2007/09/a_002.html
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methinks they are an important part of the MTR debate. Any help i could get in this area would be...well...helpful.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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site undergoes, and well and the storage of waste material generated from the mining and processing of the coal.
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Starting right with the introduction, I see heavy use of double-quotes around various terms. According to the
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for this reason "Some people just don't like coal and oppose MTR as a way to incrementally kill all mining."
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structured. Certainly, there's room for "criticism," and with a topic this controversial such a section is
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and mineral industries. If you would like to participate, you can edit the attached article, or visit the
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important to include the legislation the laid the groundwork for how MTR mine sites are reclaimed today.
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spoil produced then additional storage is used in a nearby valley or hollow, creating what is known as a
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Deletion of article, merging under surface mining, renaming to its proper name: Mountain Top Mining.
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This is a quite POV article -- at the very least, the mining industry's position should be cited. --
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articles on environment-related topics, as well as to ensure that environment articles are properly
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to improve Knowledge's coverage of the inland waters and marine environments. The aim is to write
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This name is used in the article and is more accurate. It also matches what is used in wictionary
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removed in favor of a more list-like organization detailing specific examples of these "critics."
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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I think that the Controversy/Criticism section is getting pretty large and should be moved to
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Why was the Mountaintop Removal Mining Index link removed? Seems like the kinda link we want.
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to any potential counter-viewpoints. Here's some examples I spotted where things went wrong:
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Good valley fill pix here - sorry Im a new user and cant add them - these are not copyrighted
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1412:. In 2006 the authors group released a book of their collected writing on the topic called
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This article was added as a subset to the "Surface Mining" article. Where it belongs.
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I'm thinking about creating a seperate page for the controversy over MTR per pages like
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By allowing the name to stay this article remains a POV issues and furthers an agenda.
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I added sections on legislation and economics of MTR, which should accomplish this. --
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Since I posted this two days ago and nobody has responded, I'm going to edit the page.
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Yanacocha is open pit, not mountaintop removal. I removed the reference to Yanacocha.
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http://www.grist.org/article/epa-sleep-in-lisa-jacksons-fundamental-misunderstanding/
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article should not make up half the content, even if it is a controversial subject.--
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removes the mountaintop, then I suppose this disambiguation is unnecessary, and per
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I reduced the number of external links (~30 down to 2). Most of the links were to
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While I was able to go and readily find out that the article was referencing the
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is either sold or burned. According to the federal surface mining law SMCRA, the
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debating POV for either side. This page should be factual and informative only.
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I will (temporarily) blank it pending moving it to a more appropriate place.--
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underground mines. The sludge spills should not be allowed in this article.
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in general (although there is nothing referencing it in that article or in
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Mitchell, John G. (March 2006). "When Mountains Move". National Geographic.
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impoundments should be removed as that are a topic for a separate article.
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Agreed the content of the external links section could be summerised into
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http://westvirginia.sierraclub.org/newsletter/archives/2007/09/a_002.html
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2903:. Agreed on MOS:CAPS, I have adjusted to address your (correct) concern.
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the most authoritative publications on the process use MTM and not MTRM
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Than I would suggest attempting to improve it and submitting a formal
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the most biologically diverse temperate hardwood forests in the world
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recently labeled the coal industry 'Environmental Enemy No. 1.'" ...
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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waste material generated from the mining and processing of the coal.
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and the tag seems as aptly placed here as it would be on that page.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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In an attempt to include both sides I edited the paragraph to read
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Advocating for a lack of POV, How about this as a last statement?
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Knowledge level-5 vital articles in Society and social sciences
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Maybe add a subsection for the dozen-odd grass roots groups?
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111212153119.htm
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110623090001.htm
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http://www.coaleducation.org/miningtv/Elk_in_KY/Elk_in_KY.htm
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.appvoices.org/images/MarshForkAerial_full.jpg
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method of mining. <<< End of "process" changes
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On 30 August 2012, it was proposed that this article be
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Knowledge vital articles in Society and social sciences
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I also see that you have taken it upon yourself in the
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someone else remove this section and take the flack.
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http://www.coaleducation.org/Ky_Coal_Facts/default.htm
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B-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences
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for the general search, keyword search for WorldCat):
2796:Article move request has been cancelled. WP:SNOW
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a few of the more prominent examples that stuck out:
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Not a problem, never hurts to reiterate these things.
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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Agree that the sludge pond section is misplaced: -->
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http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0603/feature5/
600:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
3325:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
3555:Mid-importance Limnology and Oceanography articles
3183:Cumulative Impact of Mountaintop Mining Documented
2632:Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act of 1977
2733:rather than outright proposing it for deletion.--
2448:I copied the criticism section in a new article (
1178:Mountains, located in the eastern United States,
1097:cleared, miners use explosives to blast away the
495:, a collaborative effort to increase coverage of
1767:To be honest, I think that this is pretty clear:
1367:. Please add this to help balance this article.
854:legislation affecting mountaintop removal mining
733:Knowledge:WikiProject Limnology and Oceanography
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
3560:WikiProject Limnology and Oceanography articles
2133:Okay, got it, thanks. Sorry for the oversight.
1276:"Appalachian Regional Reforestation Initiative"
736:Template:WikiProject Limnology and Oceanography
3311:This message was posted before February 2018.
1721:How do ya'll think this statement should read.
1088:prior to mining operations and the resultant
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8:
269:to organize and improve articles related to
3550:B-Class Limnology and Oceanography articles
3205:Article move request has been cancelled.
2700:This article is still as biased as it was.
2400:A cursory glance at those links you removed
3281:I have just modified one external link on
3170:Birth Defects Seen Near Mountaintop Mining
2018:was added at 18:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
841:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
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992:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment
939:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment
3137:, so clarity favours the current nameat
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1432:. Both book and album were produced by
1128:Because coal usually exists in multiple
2450:Criticism of mountaintop removal mining
2099:the reason for removing the global tag?
1654:Criticism of mountaintop removal mining
1209:was invoked but never defined (see the
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990:Above undated message substituted from
937:Above undated message substituted from
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2649:The entire "Community Action" section:
1745:as an energy source." which was rv by
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702:WikiProject Limnology and Oceanography
3234:Also called "hilltop removal mining"?
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2538:Potential over-use of double-quotes:
1799:Why wouldn't you want to state what
1468:Well, the thing is that really, MTR
594:This article is within the scope of
487:This article is within the scope of
259:This article is within the scope of
3530:High-importance Appalachia articles
3520:Mid-importance Environment articles
3242:does not redirect to this article.
2847:, Mining should not be capitalized.
2610:Improper/poorly-cited introduction:
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889:. The result of the discussion was
739:Limnology and Oceanography articles
218:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
3442:Mountaintop removal mining in urdu
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3285:. Please take a moment to review
418:Knowledge:WikiProject Environment
3565:Knowledge pages with to-do lists
3475:Knowledge level-5 vital articles
3384:Legislation in the United States
1434:Kentuckians for the Commonwealth
974:. Further details are available
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917:. Further details are available
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45:Click here to start a new topic.
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2784:The result of the proposal was
2521:Neutral writing/NPOV nomination
1416:, edited by Kristin Johannsen,
753:This article has been rated as
634:This article has been rated as
529:This article has been rated as
512:Template:WikiProject Appalachia
438:This article has been rated as
311:This article has been rated as
3545:Low-importance energy articles
3505:Mid-importance Mining articles
3485:B-Class level-5 vital articles
3437:03:36, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
3379:08:25, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
2690:19:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
2674:18:32, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
2244:03:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
723:and leave any messages at the
408:and leave any messages at the
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2617:Early focus on deforestation:
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2413:13:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
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2095:Since you mentioned it, what
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1962:23:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
1674:20:40, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
1662:environmental effects of coal
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1569:02:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
1554:12:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
1534:21:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
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1388:doesn't seem appropriate. --
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608:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
3515:B-Class Environment articles
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2175:Just a kind of strip mining?
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2143:00:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
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2109:06:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
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1923:04:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
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1840:22:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
1809:01:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
1785:00:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
1758:21:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
1716:On avoiding future edit wars
1705:20:07, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
1648:06:09, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
1632:18:53, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
1464:00:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
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1004:04:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
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699:This article is part of the
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291:Knowledge:WikiProject Mining
3525:B-Class Appalachia articles
3510:WikiProject Mining articles
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2551:I would also note that not
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1018:14:45:35, 2005-09-06 (UTC)
617:Template:WikiProject Energy
294:Template:WikiProject Mining
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
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3418:17:42, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
3398:23:22, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
3342:(last update: 5 June 2024)
3283:Mountaintop removal mining
3278:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
3260:07:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
3168:See here Large Numbers of
3139:Mountaintop removal mining
3029:Mountaintop removal mining
2949:Mountaintop removal mining
2811:Mountaintop removal mining
2546:recommends italics instead
2374:external link attention.--
2271:13:47, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
1731:"The controversy over..."
1584:Global Warming controversy
793:Mountaintop removal mining
759:project's importance scale
730:Limnology and Oceanography
721:Knowledge:Contributing FAQ
663:Limnology and Oceanography
640:project's importance scale
535:project's importance scale
444:project's importance scale
406:Knowledge:Contributing FAQ
317:project's importance scale
25:Mountaintop removal mining
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2342:23:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
2316:21:13, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
2224:20:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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2190:19:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
1621:Social Causes against MTR
1518:03:48, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
1503:23:41, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
1430:Songs for the Mountaintop
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80:Be welcoming to newcomers
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2965:wikt:mountaintop removal
2899:Refer to the article:
2776:Please do not modify it.
2642:Messy "impacts" section:
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3540:B-Class energy articles
3500:B-Class Mining articles
3274:External links modified
1734:but it was reverted by
1130:geologically stratified
383:WikiProject Environment
380:article is part of the
3470:B-Class vital articles
3240:Hilltop removal mining
1580:Free trade controversy
1238:Cite journal requires
852:Add information about
491:WikiProject Appalachia
390:. The aim is to write
75:avoid personal attacks
2852:Regarding POV, it is
1952:Approve / Disapprove?
1452:appalachian mountains
1398:Artists Fighting Back
978:. Student editor(s):
921:. Student editor(s):
501:Appalachian Mountains
205:level-5 vital article
100:Neutral point of view
3323:regular verification
2941:On 20 January 2007,
1728:I edited it to read
1424:and an afterword by
1258:National Geographic
1205:The named reference
424:Environment articles
105:No original research
3313:After February 2018
2944:Mountaintop removal
2504:Centralia Coal Mine
1343:Toxic West Virginia
1331:Toxic West Virginia
1329:What if we put the
1265:(3 September 2008)
515:Appalachia articles
378:environment-related
3367:InternetArchiveBot
3318:InternetArchiveBot
3172:Operations 2011-
3060:Mountaintop mining
2816:Mountaintop mining
2135:Athene cunicularia
2101:Athene cunicularia
2004:Valley Fill Photo?
1915:Athene cunicularia
1890:Athene cunicularia
1782:Athene cunicularia
1410:The New York Times
1298:Unknown parameter
976:on the course page
929:. Peer reviewers:
919:on the course page
887:Mountaintop mining
822:Updated 2017-06-08
597:WikiProject Energy
371:Environment portal
265:, a collaborative
262:WikiProject Mining
214:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
47:
3343:
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2920:
2904:
2628:What's the SMCRA?
2332:comment added by
2302:
2285:comment added by
2019:
1981:comment added by
1749:, as NPOV issue.
1695:comment added by
1556:
1544:comment added by
1414:Missing Mountains
1162:comment added by
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725:project talk page
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2973:reliable sources
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2542:Manual of Style
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2014:—Preceding
1977:—Preceding
1691:—Preceding
1658:coal mining
1574:Controversy
1540:—Preceding
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1323:User:Vicebs
1158:—Preceding
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923:Morgan.emma
715:categorized
415:Environment
400:categorized
388:environment
340:Environment
148:free images
31:not a forum
3464:Categories
3390:Camisasn28
3374:Report bug
3207:PeterWesco
3093:Pink slime
2995:-wikipedia
2951:, reason:
2906:PeterWesco
2854:impossible
2826:PeterWesco
2798:PeterWesco
2735:kelapstick
2716:PeterWesco
2666:Nottheking
2591:resources.
2508:kelapstick
2497:Image size
2458:Kelapstick
2428:Kelapstick
2394:works and
2376:Kelapstick
2371:grassroots
2091:Global tag
1666:Kelapstick
1186:References
1099:overburden
1086:deforested
1048:The source
1026:2006-27-08
984:Camisasn28
972:2 May 2019
931:Tlaloc0011
856:since 2008
789:To-do list
506:Appalachia
497:Appalachia
467:Appalachia
279:discussion
3410:SandersJR
3357:this tool
3350:this tool
3199:Cancelled
3024:WorldCat
2947:moved to
2790:Cancelled
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2654:necessary
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1390:Rschmertz
1339:Criticism
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980:SandersJR
891:withdrawn
208:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
3363:Cheers.—
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2016:comment
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1016:Jaysbro
817:refresh
805:history
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3178:&
3131:oppose
3112:Oppose
3012:GBooks
3009:Google
2990:Oppose
2961:mining
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2875:always
2841:Oppose
2263:Plazak
2251:Plazak
2216:Plazak
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1445:US Tag
1122:slurry
1117:sludge
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1033:Durova
847:Update
611:Energy
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126:Google
3158:Agree
3066:2,920
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3015:GNews
2556:used.
2488:Sarah
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376:This
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84:Seek
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