299:
and some long acadademic articles have been written that have brought some clarity to the issue. Germany has three basic versions including FKK, and then they have something called progressive or modern nudism which even gets more confusing. If we were to just pick one of those movements or labels/articles and say that one best represents the clothes free movement in general would not do any justice to the subject. Unfortunately, I believe they should establish the same tactic, and then have a disambiguition section like this article does. The problem was people here were creating entirely different movements called naturism and nudism, with similar discussions about overlapping phenomena being written differently, and one side claiming more credit in one area than the other, which is slightly misleading and non-NPOV. There are differences in the US and many other countries, but it kind of has to be laid out in a historical, country by country approach. It was a massive headache to try to reconcicle them without adopting the merge and disambiguation approach.
1076:
and approaches which I think could be lumped under a broader category. Trying to straighten all this out among separate articles "naturism", "nudism", "free beach movent", "non naturist/nudist clothes free activism" would be a total nightmare and might be near impossible and impractical given differences among movments between different countries. The current title is much better than having separate articles with similar shared content, making various claims against the other as done earlier. To me, "clothes free activity" is so broad that it could simply equate to nudity. Topfree equality is definitely in a category by itself, however news relating to the movement is often covered and supported by naturism/nudism, and other clothes free supporters, so to leave it out completely would not reflect the reality of the relationship between the two. Many prominent activists in TERA, a prominent topfree equality organization, are prominent naturists or clothes free types, such as
1769:
die-hard naturist, and while he prefers the term naturism to refer to everything, he does understand that it would be NPOV to use one term over the other. He seemed to side with "social nudity" as a title, and that was the way the debate was going on this page. If there was a global term for this topic, we would be more or less forced to adopt it here. I'm glad we are having this debate, but I'm frustrated that everyone has a bias. My goal is NPOV article and article name on the topic, where naturists and nudists, free beach people, public nudity people, artists who organize naked bike rides and everybody can all be happy without having to belong to an overbearing label that they don't want to associate with. Thanks for your contributions to this discussion. Cheers,
1384:
be noticed 2. Places allowing nudity or nude-optionality (beaches, parks, communities, including places established for thousands of years in traditional societies) 3. Among people who do not generally accept or expect it--in order to emphasize points political, social religious, sexual, artistic, whimsical, etc. a. To amuse the nudes and/or the viewers (nude group bicycle rides, for instance) b. To shock or challenge the viewers (such as PeTA and, in
Western Canada, the Freedomite Doukhobors, and, in many countries, teenagers showing disdain for prudish norms)
1062:
everything would piss off a lot of naturists, and many others, including myself who do not affiliate and who are working hard within the movement. None of the aggressive, larger scale clothing free activities are being organized by completely (or sometimes even partially) by nudists. This would include World Naked Bike Ride (not nudist), the
Freedom to be Yourself (not nudist), Painted naked cyclists of the Solstice Parade (not nudist). Free beach movement (partially nudist, partially naturist, partially neither), Bare to Breakers (partially nudist, partially naturist, partially neither). Spencer Tunick, not a nudist, his participants, majority probably not nudists. Nudist activism in the US would generally focus on defending clubs.
999:- yes, but in this case, I lean toward acknowledging the preponderance of "nudist" and "naturist" over "clothes free" as a general term, and in my opinion "clothing-optional" seems to work even better, as it reflects the reality of nude beaches and many resorts. "Clothes free" is a term I personally refrain from using, due to the extra branding efforts CFI has been making to press the term into broader service, even with possible copyright issues notwithstanding. Google shows currently some resorts using the term "clothes free" on their websites, but very few abandon the term nudist entirely.
433:(formerly the International Naturists Association) has recently adopted the term clothes free so it doesn't have to choose sides between naturism and nudism. They are arguably one of the most influential organizations in the US based on the fact they produce webcasts and generate an enormous amount of income, compared to AANR (main US nudist org) and TNS (main US naturist org). This is a very significant development in moving people towards using NPOV language when discussing a broad range of family-friendly activities. In a discussion about the name change they wrote:
1788:
this is such a hot topic, I am sure you would be able to provide me with some good external sources that highlight the clear differences in the meaning between the two words and the large variation there is in the term across countries as you claim that it does mean something different in every country. If there is a general difference between the two terms, there is no objection to have two articles describing their own variant, history etc.
31:
1741:, to which no one can reasonably object. Culturally, I'm a little more of a naturist, but as someone who hates euphemisms and misnomers, I see that we should prefer the term nudist. But as you can see in my big outline from a few days ago (a ways above on this page, the last large part of the section called "movement"), social nudity is a broader term than nudist or naturist, so it should be used for that reason, too.
1120:
many events are naturist-oriented, such as WNBR, but it is not a naturist event. The general public might think people who go naked in public are nudists, but they might not be, and the major nudist organizations may very well cringe from associating with aggressive activists. So there you have it. Its a problem. That is at least one reason why
ClothesFree International changed their name (see discussion above).
1911:
313:
several of these are links to
Knowledge clones. With that, I'd have the content under "Nudism" with redirects under the other two. Inside the article there could be a section describing differences between the two but the bulk of the article would probably pertain to both. Also, based on the above Google results, I'd remove the interwiki links for Naturism on languages where a Nudism link exists.
1052:"Clothes-free activity" or "clothes-free activism" or "history of clothes-free activity" as opposed to "history of clothes-free movement" because that title implies that there is a single grand movement. The motivations behind early nudism and modern topfree equality are so disparate that they shouldn't be lumped into a single grand movement.
1754:. Maybe take s step backward and look how this is called in the WORLD, and start from there instead of avoiding a terminology war that is apparently going on in the US. The easy way to deal with that is to acknowledge that in the beginning, and maybe even spend a seperate header on the issue, and leave it as is. And if that gives
1663:
nude in public are nudists? Is
Vincent Bethell a nudist, what about others who are activists who do not use these labels? Why not have a broader topic that others can be a part of comfortably? Maybe people should refer to themselves by labels according to how their label ranks on google? Are you a nudist?
1016:" is the most neutral term I can think of that isn't a part of someone's branding strategy within my knowledge. And I agree that certain terms bring bad connotations, due to the several parasitical industries that were built on the terms "nude beach", "nude celebrity", "nude gallery", "nude photos", etc.
472:. I am concerned about using google results to shape how things are labeled and categorized at Knowledge. A lot of searches for nudist, naturist, public nudity will yield a lot of sexually-oriented material, even though nudists and naturists say that being naked isn't a sexualized activity. I did move
1787:
If this term was so widely accepted, and so NPOV, I would expect that it would be used much wider (see above, it isn't). It is not. As someone from Europe, it is one of those typical
American discussions that has gone black and white like most discussion goes that way here (Yes, I live in the US). If
1607:
Nudism is not a general term that naturism can also fall under. See discussion above. If there is going to be a nudism article, then there will also have to be a separate naturism article. There is just too much overlap and the terms mean different things in different countries. Please also note that
1383:
A. Private places 1. At home 2. Places allowing nudity or nude-optionality (resorts, clubs, beaches, parks, ships, communities, etc.) B. Public places restricted to one sex C. In public (mixed sex) 1. Isolated places unlikely to
359:
There is no such thing as a "clothes free movement". To change the titles to some made up term, especially once that benefits a commercial website is not in the least being neutral. I would bet that
Dandelion is somehow related to the clothesfree website. I could not believe it when I'd seen what was
283:
Well, I'm not going to comment one way or the other on merging Nudism and
Naturism into one article (still, I would like to read the discussion leading up to the merge). A big issue does need to be addressed. Currently there are numerous duplication in the interwiki links being that this article is
138:
We can't censor the more scandalous parts of the nudist/naturist community just because they're embarrassing. I agree that beauty pageants are contrary to the spirit of body acceptance, but that means the fact that many
American nudist camps hold these pageants is to their disgrace. That fact ought
103:
I strongly disagree with this picture. It depicts women in a non-naturist environment. If you are rating someone else's beauty (or nude body), you are violating the whole concept of free naturist as such. Everybody is equal and all body types are beautiful - this is what naturism seems to mean. There
1797:
Yes there is an objection to 2 articles. The general reader wants a relatively objective description which fits everything into a neat package. We can do that under the totally neutral term "Social nudity". Would any other encyclopedia have an article for "Television", another article for "T.V.",
1597:
is rarely used, and something you hardly hear outside the US and related international organizations. It hardly raises hits at google (400,000 which includes all unrelated pages). Nudism raises 3.5 million hits, naturism 1.5 million. If at all, it should be Nudism hat should be used. Using a general
1179:
I'm not an expert on the subject, so I can't tell you what's out there to write about, I'm just trying to throw out ideas and see what works. As it is now, the organization is a bit of a mess with little clear demarcation of each article's domain and lots of overlapping and redundant information.
1119:
OK. Hmmm... Without the terms already discussed on this page, I'm kinda drawing a blank about what to suggest. A big part of the problem is that the naturist nudist community has not agreed on a common term, each community using their own language to describe their own world. Naturists will say that
1109:
Yeah, I wasn't saying to put this under nudism, since apparently that term is contentious. I think maybe what we need first is some sort of hierarchy of nakedness so we can figure out which movements go together with connections in history or philosophy and then merge them into the largest branches
1031:
I'm pretty sure that there is a large number of nudists/naturists out there that wouldn't characterize themselves as being part of a "movement," so I'm not sure if it's fair to merge them into a title that uses that name. IT seems like "movement" should be more about attempts to change things, like
934:
Regarding issue 2 - Knowledge strives to describe the work as it is not how it may somesday be. If "clothes free" or "clothesfree" becomes the dominant term then the article names can be rearranged later. One nice thing with
Knowledge is that names (and often facts) are not set in stone and can be
298:
There is so much overlap between nudism and naturism that is very difficult to have any article realistically trying to separate them. Another problem is that in each country, the principles of naturism may be more like another countries version of nudism. Its very odd. There is a difference though,
110:
This picture is not suitable for a naturism page- these activities do not happen in a European Naturist context being counter to the whole philosophy. Current practice is that any image used must have the written consent of all the participants- and photographer that does not observe this convention
1662:
Why don't you just move naturism to nudism then and see what happens? The difference between nudism and naturism is how they are used in a paticular time period and a particular country. I suppose you probably think that the painted naked cyclists of the Summer Solstice Parade, and anybody who goes
1075:
A history of clothes-free activity sound more broad than clothes free movement. "Clothes free activism" might work (but I think movement might encompass some of the quieter variations of advocacy and practice). You are right there is no single grand movement, but there is a lot of shared philosophy
114:
The whole page seems to be written from the point of view of an outsider looking in from a considerable emotional distance. It would be better to consult the national naturism organisation who through the INF have been considering questions of definition for over 50 years. For instance the British
1736:
Hello, KimvdLinde, I haven't seen your name before, but I'm new to Knowledge. I'm not new to social nudity. I agree with you that clothes free is a poor term for a title of all this. But calling nudists by the label naturist is, whether you know it or not, giving a victory to the one group over
1626:
And how would you propose writing two different articles with virtually the same content? Are you really up to writing a page that lists the differences from country to country on both an article about naturism and nudism? And then what about the free beach movement? And then what about people who
1348:
2. The term is also a misnomer. Nudists are not free of clothes. We don't advocate the elimination of clothes. I've never known a nudist who did not both possess and wear clothes frequently, although there are some such people in the wilds of the Amazon and New Guinea and maybe Berkeley. I've
1807:
I disagree. If I look for a term as Naturism, because that is the most used term, it is confusing to get to social nudity, which could equally be a term from the Cultural anthropology describing how hunter-gather societies use it. But, please show me some sources for the huge terminilogy war that
938:
Regarding issue 3 - very true. As a semi-outsider to the whole issue I have trouble seeing the difference between nudism and naturism, and I had just barely heard of "clothes free". One article, whatever the title, needs to strive to help people understand the differences. Hopefully a few more
480:
because the first term was a bit too much even though making a page called public nudity might conjure up commerical sexually-oriented associations given internet searches. Many sex sites using nudism rather than naturism or clothes free in their meta data and web pages to draw people looking for
1412:
I have tried to construct those categories above to be logical, not the artificial, arbitrary, localized, and ephemeral divisions of social movements we see at the moment. Nudists, naturists, nude-optionalists, and naked people who resists labels can all fit themselves into one or more of those
1344:
1. "Clothes free movement" is basically a euphemism. It's for people embarrassed to refer directly to nudity. Euphemisms are often handy when communicating with hostile authorities, but when used at other times they tend to be harmful to the self-esteem of practitioners. These terms are also
960:
As something to consider when putting things into perspective among nudist organizations, while CFI (formerly INA) may have contributed in some positive ways to the public's perception of nudism, they "generate an enormous amount of income" partly by way of offering one of the Internet's largest
528:
Hmm, I see there is some definition in the article already. My fear is still that the casual reader could be left with some ambiguity. If time permits in the next couple of days I may play around with creating a bubble chart showing the basic premise and overlaps of the different communities.
449:
Just like a person who periodically works in their garden might not want to be labeled a "gardener", the words "Clothes Free" doesn't label the person as does the word "nudist" or ānaturistā. "Clothes Free" is catching on as the new friendly replacement to "nudist". Many resorts are now calling
312:
I agree that there should only be one article. My main headache is that the term "Clothes free movement" looks a little too PC for my tastes. I'd say to use the Google test. Naturism draws 1.59M hits. Nudism draws 3.39M hits. "Clothes free movement", in quotes, draws a whopping 92 hits and
1051:
A move to a more general title would probably be best. I'm not sure what would be best, but "Clothes-free" just doesn't have the same connotations as the older terms. The biggest problem I think is the lumping together of many independent activities into a "movement." Why not something like
1768:
Again, every country has its own understanding of what naturism means versus nudism. There is not agreed upon NPOV term that everybody uses, that is part of the problem and that is why so many people are getting involved in this debate. I talked with Mark Storey, editor of Nude and Natural, a
1704:
NPOV article title. Using either "naturism" or "nudism" in a title on a general topic relating to social nudity I and others believe is an aggressive move towards a NPOV title. The user who moved everything to this "naturism" page also rewrote the NPOV language to "naturist" language which is
1352:
3. One organisation may have recently adopted the term, but it has not caught on yet, and I hope it doesn't. They should have said "social nudity" if wanting to appease naturists. Or a term I believe I coined: nude-friendly. Your best choice now is to call the category social nudity, as
1061:
And what connotations does older terms as nudism have? Activism? I think generally this has not been the case, especially in the US, and especially as it relates to the free beach movement which has had a contentious relationship with organized nudism in this country. Using that term to lump
1450:
Korky again, after editing some "clothing optional" pages. For some reason, not all of the updates I submitted were credited to me, but I wasn't trying to avoid detection--it was a glitch. The updates between my first and last credited updates are all from me. Hope you like my work.
154:
Several western countries have separate pages for naturism and nudism. This should be reflected by creating separate English pages for the two terms because in English-speaking countries people generally associate with one or the other, or neither. That phenomena should be recognized.
421:
because I felt that their insistance on speaking to naturists in their action alerts was counter-productive as it alienated nudists and other that do not associate with labels, such as those who frequent clothing-optional beaches (whom are often unaffiliated with formal groups and
1416:
One or two of you seemed to imply that naturism and naturalism can mean the same thing or similar. False. Knowledge should state clearly in the naturism section that naturalism is the study of nature. Naturism is the practice of being in a "natural" (nude) state socially.
1278:
as the all-encompassing term. I'm no fan of hyphenated culture definitions but that's the best one for me. Let's hear some more input. I'll be happy to help with the editing if someone could tell me where it's needed. So to create this "hierarchy of nakedness" (nice term,
391:
article title. I would be concerned about moving all content to nudism, it is not an umbrella term, even if we just look at the US, for all clothes free activities and philosophy. As an example, many consider naturism and the free beach movement to be distinct from that.
518:
Don't worry about sending the whole article. Can you paraphrase the basics of the difference in a few sentences? If so, it should really be included in the article as it helps to clear up the taxonomy of the various groups and pursuits in how they overlap and diverge.
1153:
On the other hand, the free beach movement started in the 1960s through 1980s. Really significant approaches to free beaches developed in the 1970s and 1980s that are still being tried today, so I would hate to move that to a historical article since it is so
1758:
to one of the two US groups, so what, as the basic onset of the article is not to solve that war, but to describe a phenomonon from a wider perspective in which the US is only a small part. So, what would at a world scale be the appropriate terminology?
508:
that in fact the article has not yet been in print in N magazine (it is too long), but it was online for a while on the TNS website, however it has been pulled as he is working on it again. I might be able to get you a draft if you contact me privately.
1327:
I'm uncomfortable with most or all of you being anonymous but will try to tolerate it. Here in Vancouver, BC, people know me face-to-face as Korky Day. I am about as well known as some of the people listed as prominent practitioners of social nudity.
1405:
A. In person, such as stripping and erotic dancing. B. Reproduced (movies, photos, statues, Internet, etc.) 1. Erotica (supposedly liberating and respectful, more or less) 2. Pornography (exploiting and degrading, more or less)
1334:
Nudism and naturism mean the same thing but are prefered by two somewhat different groups which should merge but which are too stubborn and foolish to do so. Those two groups are less divided in Canada than in the notoriously cantankerous USA.
992:
Not all photos were of young nudists like these, but it is clear they will be included prominently in the collection promised to number in the thousands. Some feel feel this is exploitation and pandering, and not necessarily reflective of true
104:
is erotic underlying here which, sincerely doesn't surprises me considering american views towards nudity in which even naturists tend to gravitate towards a more adult environment. This article should be more focused, towards INF directives.
1349:
read about one in Florida. On the other hand, nudism is not a misnomer because it doesn't imply a lack of clothes, just a propensity for removing them. Would you call every cycling club a car-free club? No, many cyclists are also drivers.
360:
done to the naturism entry. To have even a mention of anything with the term "Clothesfree" is bogus. On doing some research, it appears that these changes were made by someone that has their site hosted by Clothesfree. Impartial? Cyndiann
1440:
This is Korky a third time. I experimented and found out what's happening. It seems that Wikepedia punishes people like me who properly indent our paragraphs! So I'm removing the indentations, but under protest! Maybe I should strip.
118:
Naturism, often called nudism, has as many definitions as there are naturists. The International Naturist Federation, which represents millions of naturists around the world, including all members of British Naturism, describes it as:
910:
includes such a wide grouping of peopleānudists, naturists, solo nudists, hedonists, exhibitionists, activistsāsome of which really can't find consensus with their counterpart. I believe any of the various participants of
406:? What if I named the Portal:Nudism? The nudism movement is mainly of interest to people who associate or are interested in that label, not a broader movement, and certainly not to those who identify heavily with naturism.
1430:
This is Korky again a few minutes later. I'm new at this. I don't know why my formatting got totally messed up. Who put in those stupid pink boxes and made the column much too wide? I have no idea how to fix them.
1003:
Similarly, AANR has used "nude recreation" as the umbrella term, also switching their byline recently to "the credible voice of nudism" in order to move closer to branding that term exclusively. "Naturist" suggests
915:
will tend to fall to one extreme or the other of each category, illustrating the complexity of categorizing this subject. It would be interesting to go down the list and see where the reader falls in each category.
1365:
One of you suggested that we need an outline for arranging all these related topics. The way it is now is a huge, confused jumble. How about this outline below? (Sorry that this Web site added the pink boxes.)
459:
As always, we fully support and belong to great organizations like the Naturist Society, the American Association for Nude Recreation, Federation of Canadian Naturists, and the International Naturist Federation.
1345:
euphemisms: naturism, clothing-optional, private parts, intimate parts, etc. More accurate, honest, and proud are the terms nudism; nude-optional; organs of reproduction, nurturing, and elimination; etc.
1737:
the other in a struggle that's lasted over 3 decades in the USA, which is partly why people are saying it's not neutral ("NPOV"). The only fair, logical, historical solution I can see is to use the term
287:
A decision needs to be made as to which article on each wiki is more closely related to this one now. Someone who can read the other linked languages needs to make a quick scan and remove duplications.
1135:(most of it seems to be there already), information specific to the modern clothes-free movement here, and information about naked people before the present day (i.e. historical nudist movements) in a
1653:, 194 hits at google, non-notable, mentioning in passing would be enough. If there is a substantial group that resists the nudist/naturalist label, it warrants its own article and cross linking.
1263:
states that culture is the "set of distinctive spiritual, material, intellectual and emotional features of society or a social group, and that it encompasses, in addition to art and literature,
409:
As a personal example, I am not a naturist or nudist, and I have been boycotting nudist resorts for four to five years now because of their lack of support for public lands initiatives, see
1321:
I just signed up today for Knowledge for the first time. I want to help edit because you need it so much, and I am an expert in social nudity. I have not attempted to edit anything yet.
1474:
The only error of mine that I can see now is that I failed to indicate that the AANR calls a club non-landed if it leases its land. (Very misleading to the public and to AANR members!)
111:
is merely a voyeur, and will be asked to hand over his film and leave. Suitable legitimate images may be obtained from the press officer of each of the relevant National Organisation.
1617:
I fail to see the violation of NPOV with this title. If there is a need of two seperate articles because of the slight differences, so be it. The title you propose is definatly POV.
122:"A way of life in harmony with nature characterised by the practice of communal nudity, with the intention of encouraging self-respect, respect for others and for the environment."
481:
that material to look through pictures, some or all of which are sexually oriented, and do not represent the clothes free movement, naturism, nudism, or the free beach movement.
1150:
What is "modern" though? Much of the current "nudist" culture in the US, for example, is more or less following the same strategy and activities seen at the turn of the century.
1160:
A history of nudity would probably have to include "social nudity" baths, cultures, "nudity in vernacular culture" might include other things like streaking, but I don't know.
128:"Naturism is a lifestyle in harmony with nature, expressed through social nudity, and characterized by self-respect of people with different opinions and of the environment."
1189:
actually, how about "Social nudity" as a title? It's not as limited as public nudity, and it lacks the connotations of nudism, naturism, or clothes-free (as a neologism).
1356:
4. Two words such as "clothes free" are hyphenated when preceding and modifying a noun such as "movement", unhyphenated when in a sentence such as "She was clothes free."
450:
themselves clothes free resorts instead of nudist resorts. The words "Clothes Free" points at the clothes that are gone, instead of pointing at, or labeling the person.
1380:
II. Social nudity (non-sexualized, except generally to lessen shame of the body, its functions, and its shape; it is also intentional, voluntary, and non-commercial)
1331:
In 1970, I led a movement which made nudism acceptable again at Ulksen Beach, better known as Wreck Beach. It is now Canada's most renowned beach--of any kind.
344:
Thanks. There is plenty of room for improvement. The articles are still quite bad. I see some of the same problems on related sites in other language wikipedias.
473:
491:
Regarding issue 1 - I need to read a good definition of the difference between nudism and naturism. How much overlap and difference is there in the two?
1608:
your concern about clothes free is unjustified, if you review to note that the suggested move is to social nudity for reasons stated above. See discussion.
1471:
I said "clothist" could be included, even if rare. I'm not proposing it as a category or heading, so I'm merely provides more information. Is that bad?
414:
1283:) what do we need, an entirely new article, or to make everything existing fit some kind of logical structure like the one I've created above?
410:
969:
They may have revised their strategy, but regardless, I tend to discount the huge amounts of income generated by such maneuvers. Reference:
1918:
1215:"Social nudity" sounds like a cross-cultural thing, which could be independent of any movement or philosophy, even as broad as the article
1338:
The term "clothes free movement" is a poor choice for a broad category for many reasons, including some mentioned by some of you already.
228:
Now that similar info is in one place, it will be much easier to remove crappy info, edits, stupid external links, and other silly things.
1374:
Nudity (with references in some categories below to near nudity, to exposing forbidden parts of the body, and to opposition to nudity)
1649:? And it was you who was claming that the content was different in the first place, and now they are virtual identical? Hummmm....
1252:
I'd suggest "culture" in place of "movement". It's much broader, and doesn't require political activism. Reference: Definitions of
1163:"clothes free movement" would probably need to include clubs, beaches, resorts, public nudity (political, recreational, artistic).
327:
Regardless of all that, you've been doing a great job cleaning up the various nudity related articles. Thanks for the efforts. --
1778:
1672:
1636:
1393:
The people advocating the above activities generally take pains to sharply distinguish themselves from the following activities.
1483:
Unless someone says otherwise, I'll assume the other edits are acceptable--and put them back in. How long should I wait? --KD
396:, the main US nudist organization, has historically had a contentious relationship with the free beach movement and naturism.
1578:. I really do not get this proposed change. It is called Naturism, social nudity is confusing and can mean various things.
529:
Maybe going on the picture is worth a thousand words concept will help me and possibly others keep the issues straight. --
1480:
To which other of my edits did you object? There are quite a few: compare 04:44, 8 April 2006 and 21:35, 7 April 2006.
1627:
are not affiliated with nudism or naturism who are clothes free activists? How familiar are you really with this topic?
1510:
966:
1900:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
1495:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
131:
Looking at these definition you will see the importance of encouraging self respect which the 'Erotic Image' violates.
495:
Yes, I can provide this in a recent article written on the subject in N magazine. Give me a bit of time to fetch it.
1157:
The public nudity thing, in urban areas, more or less got going in the 1960s through today and is still developing.
192:
38:
1000:
284:
pointing towards both Nudism and Naturism articles on other wikis which still treat the two as separate subjects.
1598:
term is not NPOV, but evading such a term for whatever reason is. There is nothing agressive on the term itself.
1227:
suggests a political intent to foster growth and development of general freedoms in society. What do you think?
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Clothes free is an emerging NPOV term for clothes free acitivities among major naturist/nudist organizations.
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topfree equality, and less about historical nudism which operated under a very different philosophy.
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of spontaneous erections in the name of body acceptance, versus those who support more modest nudist
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suggested by "Dandelion" 2006 March 23 (metric dating, which Knowledge should use, by the way).
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A. With consent (sex parties, for instance) B. Without consent (flashers, for instance)
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people will join in with opinions on this. Now, back to researching if Mar Bella beach in
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Naturism Site (Google Naturism)is a good start if you cannot read German, Dutch or French
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Trouble is, most of the dichotomies listed above have two groups at odds with each other.
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Those who believe nudism can harmlessly include limited sexuality, such as the wearing of
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IV. Nudity or exposure for overt sexual gratification (intentional and non-commercial)
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sources, there needs to be a major NPOV cleanup that does not show bias. Please help!
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Page created due to an incredible amount of redundancy and overlap of content between
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of some type within nudism, versus those who believe it exists and are willing to be
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apparently swept the various countries of our planet that people are refering too.
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Ok, this sounds for me like bringing a typical US issue on this to WP. Please read
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1700:. Restore and change to NPOV title. Note I merged articles Naturism and Nudism to
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Now I can't find my note to you, "Dandelion1". It's somewhere here in Knowledge.
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INA's banner ad said "See Photos Of Freedom" with pictures of little kids on it.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Here are direct links to some of the free teaser content featured on that page:
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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to be nude in the home and backyard, socializing there, versus those who would
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5. As some of you argued, it's not a movement, though it includes movements.
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to be reported. On the other hand, it need not be illustrated with a photo. -
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So the solution is to replace "Clothes free movement" with "Social nudity".
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for personal, political or artistic reasons, versus those who prefer to be
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lobbying, versus those who insist all the government relations be left to
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Clothist and many other good revisions addressed to Dandelion1 and others
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in activist nudist organizations, versus those who would rather remain a
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the public acceptance of clothing-optional culture, versus those who do
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would be a good compromise, but arguments below have persuaded me that
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and another article for "Telly" (British short term for television)?
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for nudism, versus those who limit their support of social nudism to
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That's an interesting suggestion. Hmmm.... that also overlaps with
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal.
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in a nudist resort night club, versus those who believe this is
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Could you make an outline of what you are thinking with topics?
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Those whose secondary motivation towards nudism is to seek new
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Those who encourage a study and return to natural ways, called
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Familiar enough to say something about it, and you, are you a
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for use of public places such as wilderness, beaches or parks.
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for calling the combined naturism, nudism, etc. by the title
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You say I showed bias in favour of nudist language? Where?
1832:- honestly, I also find the proposed name quite confusing--
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Early 1999 "Photos of Freedom" page c/o the WayBack Machine
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Those who believe nudism should include varying amounts of
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clothing-optional public places by opposing such behavior.
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V. Sexualized commercial nudity (usually paying models)
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is a good place to plan a vacation for this summer.Ā :) --
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for nudist families with children, versus those who have
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in a nudist setting, versus those who would prefer they
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with less confidence and income, versus the traditional
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There are indeed several overlapping communities within
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Seems much more like a culture than a movement to me. -
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on a discussion forum, versus those who enjoy nudism
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1259:"...a 2002 document from the United Nations agency
1110:that make for coherent (but not bloated) articles.
619:Those who spend considerable time and resources to
169:I would like to propose to move common sections of
125:This is a development of the 1974 Agde definition.
1409:Of course, sex and porn can occur without nudity.
867:And last but not least: those who would be called
429:A very major clothes free/naturist organization,
881:support-public-places vs support-private-places
177:as well as related issues to a new page called
696:Those who would pay to be nude, and prefer an
871:, versus those who would prefer to be called
786:the better (anything goes), versus those who
8:
561:. If I could name them here, they would be:
474:Clothing-optional activities on public lands
1219:. So I would think it is best discussed on
685:Those who would pay to be nude, and prefer
555:I'm not sure the divisions are that simple.
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1324:I have been a nude activist for 36 years.
954:Re: Use of term "clothes free" to suggest
415:criticism of organized naturism and nudism
1042:What specific changes are you proposing?
700:setting, versus those who would prefer a
597:Those who set up nudism as a voyeuristic
1866:is the best option, with redirects from
961:collections of nudist photography. From
827:, versus those who believe voyeurism is
572:(at home alone only, or closet) nudists.
1370:OUTLINE OF NUDITY CONCEPTS by Korky Day
413:(which I changed from its former title
261:OK. Because majority of text came from
90:Comments made originally on this page (
1924:Do not edit the contents of this page.
568:nude setting, versus those who remain
411:criticism of the clothes free movement
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1719:. From Korky Day in Vancouver, BC: I
1390:A. Art B. Education C. News
823:Those who have an active interest in
689:resorts, versus those who would seek
586:Those who believe clothing should be
440:Some people don't like being labeled.
7:
997:Re: Google results can be misleading
678:to be nude, versus those who prefer
649:behind locked gates at nudist clubs.
1377:I. Solo nudity (unseen by others)
1131:Why not put general information in
400:Concern on the effect on the portal
816:), versus those who only practice
641:Those who fight actively for more
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504:I just found out from the author
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470:Google results can be misleading
402:. Would the same pertain to the
375:has suggested moving content at
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853:be present for various reasons.
564:Those who are comfortable in a
1012:moves toward non-partiality. "
834:Those who support examples of
652:Those who advocate aggressive
316:(See response in next section)
1:
1538:for the moment: 2 in favour (
1500:The result of the debate was
741:Those who would rather be an
239:Reconcile with nudity article
160:01:03, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
1752:WP:NPOV#Anglo-American focus
1731:is saying immediately above.
1705:completely biased and NPOV.
768:to sexualized social nudism.
417:). I also resigned from The
1387:III. Non-sexualized media
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1727:, which is in effect what
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856:Those who have a need for
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193:Talk:Clothes_free_movement
191:For discussion please see
1306:02:03, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
1288:23:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
1276:clothing-optional culture
1021:23:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
1014:Clothing-optional culture
963:July 1999 to October 2002
956:ClothesFree International
921:23:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
913:clothing-optional culture
908:Clothing-optional culture
845:Those comfortable around
764:, perhaps), versus those
608:Those who enable or deny
590:, versus those who would
559:clothing-optional culture
431:ClothesFree International
419:Naturist Action Committee
186:23:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
144:23:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
1897:Please do not modify it.
1492:Please do not modify it.
877:will-pay vs will-not-pay
793:Those who argue for the
383:(see discussion above).
1318:Dear Knowledge people,
779:with mainstream nudism.
736:also called "naturists"
603:opposed to exploitation
583:, well traveled nudist.
389:Concern over a non NPOV
1882:, and related terms.
812:, or those practicing
782:Those who believe the
99:Naturist beauty pagent
1922:of past discussions.
1717:Move to Social nudity
1702:Clothes free movement
1698:Move to Social nudity
1531:Move to Social nudity
1420:Sincerely, Korky Day
1311:'''FROM KORKY DAY:'''
1225:clothes free movement
1217:clothes free movement
1204:clothes free movement
707:Those who practice a
693:nudist accomodations.
594:wherever appropriate.
377:Clothes free movement
257:NPOV cleanup! Help!!!
179:Clothes free movement
165:Merge/move suggestion
42:of past discussions.
1006:The Naturist Society
638:for various reasons.
599:business opportunity
1864:Nudism and Naturism
1858:. I used to think
1651:Free beach movement
1647:Clothes free person
967:See the 2002 banner
660:in private meeting.
592:enforce full nudity
404:Portal:Clothes free
610:child exploitation
1936:
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1929:current talk page
1341:Further reasons:
1137:history of nudity
935:revised later.
883:group divisions).
858:safe environments
831:to social nudism.
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1139:article? --
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1916:This is an
1001:Google link
864:for safety.
829:parasitical
745:or even an
732:"naturists"
726:naturalists
691:inexpensive
671:to be nude.
654:grass-roots
632:participate
616:against it.
506:Mark Storey
36:This is an
1847:KimvdLinde
1810:KimvdLinde
1790:KimvdLinde
1761:KimvdLinde
1655:KimvdLinde
1619:KimvdLinde
1610:Dandelion1
1600:KimvdLinde
1580:KimvdLinde
1564:KimvdLinde
1556:Bridesmill
1548:KimvdLinde
1540:Dandelion1
1502:don't move
1265:lifestyles
1229:Dandelion1
1208:Dandelion1
1168:Dandelion1
1122:Dandelion1
1098:Dandelion1
1044:Dandelion1
1027:"movement"
842:to anyone.
818:non-sexual
784:less rules
717:recreation
680:not to pay
663:Those who
636:non-joiner
630:Those who
511:Dandelion1
497:Dandelion1
483:Dandelion1
346:Dandelion1
301:Dandelion1
271:Dandelion1
249:Dandelion1
230:Dandelion1
220:Dandelion1
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183:Dandelion1
157:Dandelion1
1800:Korky Day
1743:Korky Day
1729:Dandelion
1707:Dandelion
1544:Korky Day
1453:Korky Day
1443:Korky Day
1433:Korky Day
1422:Korky Day
1281:Night Gyr
1191:Night Gyr
1182:Night Gyr
1154:relavent.
1141:Night Gyr
1112:Night Gyr
1054:Night Gyr
1034:Night Gyr
1010:Knowledge
941:Barcelona
873:naturists
825:voyeurism
814:polyamory
799:etiquette
762:hedonists
751:in person
665:stay home
614:activists
82:ArchiveĀ 5
77:ArchiveĀ 4
72:ArchiveĀ 3
66:ArchiveĀ 2
60:ArchiveĀ 1
1876:Naturism
1779:contribs
1673:contribs
1637:contribs
1285:BareWire
1223:, since
1018:BareWire
918:BareWire
847:children
810:swingers
773:lingerie
709:religion
704:setting.
588:optional
422:labels).
263:naturist
216:naturism
171:naturism
1919:archive
1843:Comment
1756:victory
1536:Summary
1507:Nightst
1254:Culture
993:nudism.
869:nudists
788:protect
713:skyclad
687:upscale
621:promote
577:younger
39:archive
1884:Powers
1872:Nudism
1856:Oppose
1830:Oppose
1576:Oppose
1560:Powers
1261:UNESCO
1221:nudity
1200:nudity
1133:Nudity
702:rustic
669:travel
566:social
381:nudism
366:Nudism
267:nudist
245:nudity
212:nudism
175:nudism
1834:Aldux
1552:Aldux
1517:llion
711:(see
698:urban
581:older
16:<
1775:talk
1721:vote
1669:talk
1633:talk
1202:and
1092:and
1084:and
879:and
570:solo
468:(3)
425:(2)
394:AANR
387:(1)
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214:and
206:Why?
173:and
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1504:. ā
851:not
676:pay
625:not
476:to
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1932:.
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