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1723:: The whole size issue is inaccurate and apparently a mistake in converting an accurate largest passenger carrying certification to size. And, yes, the vessel was certified for 6,000 with a possible capacity for 1,400 more based on deck space and carrying capacity. I have not researched it, but it is likely the certificate was based on a "safe" number needing evacuation in fire or emergency and 1,400 more just "stuck" if it had even been sought. On size, see below.
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The article (and the referenced source) describes the engines as having "cylinders measuring 45 inches × 70 inches × 7 foot stroke". This is one two many dimensions for the cylinders (unless they were oval, which would be quite remarkable). I suspect that it was a double expansion engine with 45 inch
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Typically double expansion steam engine sizes will be given with the interior diameter of the high pressure cylinder first, and the low pressure cylinder second, this is called the "bore". The high pressure cylinder always has a smaller bore than the low pressure. The low pressure cylinder can be
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I think we are in agreement on all significant points. I think the cited source garbled the info from its source, and the wikipedia article copies the garble. I conjecture that actual engine had 45" HP, and a 70" LP cylinders with a 7 foot stroke. I'm not inclined to edit the article to include my
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I've written a number of steamboat articles, and I'm pretty sure that "messboy" was a title people were given regardless of their age. At the time it was not regarded as pejorative, I think now it certainly would be. I changed the job title to "steward" which was also used then, my suspicion is
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Esentialy identical, substituting the word "by" for the "X" symbol. There is probably an original source of this garble that everybody has been copying. I think I'll replace the first "X" with the word "and": "45" and 70" cylinders with a 7 foot stroke". It is the only interpretation that makes
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The vessel, as a day boat without sleeping or cargo accommodation, had a license for 6,000 passengers that was then a world record. It was not the largest such vessel—even on the Hudson. For example, International Marine
Engineering, Volume 18, July 1913 issue pages down from the
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Looks better but I'm having some second thoughts on the prose now. I went in and did some copy editing myself but the article needs an experienced editor to go over it. If you have someone in mind please ask them to look at it. Alternatively I can try again myself.
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The lead section should summarize the entire article content. Additionally there is information in the lead that is not in the body of the article. The use of citations in the lead section is optional however, there is currently overkill
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Agreed. I understand that historically it was used thouroughly however as this is a modern encyclopedia and the article is not quoting directly from a source the use of a more PC word is in order. 22:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
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1678:"6000 passengers"? I doubt it! At 100 pounds a head, that's 600,000 pounds of people on a 400 ton boat. If most were adults they would total over a million pounds. That's 500 tons. Somebody moved a decimal point!
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This is often a common problem that I've run into myself. I'll consider the content passable for this issue but it's possible that someone else may disagree in the future. I'd recommend trying to find further
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1443:(McDowell, Michael P., Passenger Liners of New York Shipbuilding Corporation, Camden) (Adams, Arthur G. (1996), The Hudson Through the Years, Fordham University Press, p. 154, 182, 187, 191, & 314,
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had 450 first class staterooms, limited 2nd class accomodations and a sort of steerage dormitory, one for 46 men to starboard and 44 women to port, plus crew accommodations and some freight space.
1699:"6000 passengers"? I doubt it! At 100 pounds a head, that's 600,000 pounds of people. If most were adults they would total over a million pounds. That's 500 tons. Somebody moved a decimal point!
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In the context of the time (early 20th century) about which the article pertains, it is not racist as the word "Negro" is what was used in the New York Times article being cited. Note that the
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that "steward" was actually more of a higher rank, but it is better than the alternative. Actually, I think "steward" alone without note of race would be the better usage now.
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diameter high pressure cylinders and 70 inch diameter low pressure cylinders -- both with a seven foot stroke. As huge as this seems today it would be typical for the period.
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Surely
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article talks about this change over time. Certainly, very few would use this word today, but at the time, it was the norm and not considered racist.
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There is a large gap in the history of the ship between its launching and the sinking incident; 1912–1926. What happened during those years?
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The article is "photo heavy" in that the photos are overwhelming the text of the article. You should decide which pics aren't really needed.
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was and I would like to rewrite the sentence in the "Characteristics" section of this article to add a footnote and instead read:
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That was what I was getting at. If he was under 16 and worked in the mess then the term is entirely neutral, but not otherwise.
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I can find very little on this middle period. I've added as much as I can locate after scouring the
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From the "Characteristics" section of this article we find the claim made by two cited references that:
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That said, since the intro wasn't directly from the olden era, I changed it to black, the modern term.--
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I copy edited another round and its as good as I can make it. I will be passing the article shortly. --
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Okay, what about "messboy", I would consider that to have negative connotations today?
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sense. It can't be less correct than what is there now, and is probably more correct.
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s overnight staterooms could carry only less than 10% of the passengers that the
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that is as far back as I have found (close to the date the boat was built).
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huge, as on this vessel The length of the cylinder is called the "stroke".
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I'm placing this article on hold until the issues are addressed. --
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was not exceeded in size until the June 1995 maiden voyage of the
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I have added the proposed rewording and footnote in the article.
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it was the largest passenger-carrying riverboat ever built.
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I do not have anyone in mind, your improvements look good.
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The article needs some corrections in order to pass to GA.
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1567:47 ft (14 m)
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1534:89 ft (27 m)
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1493:vessel name
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1470:Hudson River
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19:This is the
1745:feature on
1701:—Preceding
1680:—Preceding
1663:67.86.75.96
1649:67.86.75.96
1638:day sailing
1478:67.86.75.96
1010:transcluded
963:Ferritecore
932:Ferritecore
917:Mtsmallwood
901:Ferritecore
844:Mtsmallwood
786:89.213.1.85
780:—Preceding
726:89.213.1.85
315:sidewheeler
148:free images
31:not a forum
1783:Categories
1460:Ohio River
1448:0823212025
1107:verifiable
661:U.S. state
406:Shipwrecks
369:Shipwrecks
295:column on
206:under the
1763:Berkshire
1754:Berkshire
1580:long tons
1516:capacity
1394:WilliamKF
1365:WilliamKF
1339:Pass/Fail
1314:WilliamKF
1193:WilliamKF
1178:(focused)
1082:WilliamKF
1002:GA Review
980:WilliamKF
948:WilliamKF
799:WilliamKF
745:WilliamKF
397:shipwreck
285:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1767:Palmeira
1752:steamer
1725:Palmeira
1703:unsigned
1682:unsigned
1468:and the
782:unsigned
665:New York
340:GA-class
220:reassess
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1629:. The
1627:tonnage
1512:tonnage
1505:height
1496:length
1333:Overall
1050:(prose)
894:Engines
765:Bedford
701:on the
460:history
433:on the
287:in the
243:Process
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1615:. The
1519:notes
1508:decks
1502:draft
1271:images
1246:stable
1244:It is
1222:policy
1159:It is
1100:It is
1076:there.
1041:It is
1026:review
346:scale.
265:Listed
246:Result
126:Google
1578:3600
1499:beam
1028:(see
1012:from
872:Pyrop
819:Pyrop
741:Negro
578:Ships
536:Ships
507:-None
477:To Do
470:purge
465:watch
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1771:talk
1729:talk
1711:talk
1690:talk
1667:talk
1653:talk
1546:3707
1482:talk
1445:ISBN
1420:talk
1416:Brad
1398:talk
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1318:talk
1197:talk
1104:and
1086:talk
1030:here
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561:Ship
455:edit
240:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1062:MoS
693:Low
663:of
425:Mid
176:TWL
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