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Talk:Right to die

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2728:: The "right to die" is certainly, as the sources state: part of the efforts to legalize euthanasia and assisted suicide, and shall be presented as such, not as an actual "human right", as it is showed in the current first paragraph. The leading paragraph should preciselly show what is on the body of the article, and certainly the body is not stating that the "right to die" is an actual "human right". Please note a 3rd opinion request was triggered before and some editors endorsed my position: we can't show "right to die" as an "human right", since that is an unsourced and false claim, but a POV claim, the claim poponents of legalizing euthanasia claim. Also in this thread a third alternative version was proposed. None of the porposed alternatives claim the right to die is an actual human right, but all proposed version, more or less, worded the thing like this: "The right to die is the controversial claim alleging that there should exist an ethical or institutional entitlement of any individual to commit suicide or to undergo voluntary euthanasia", which stick to what is also stated in the body. -- 2819:
the US Supreme Court made a ruling on the issue of assisted suicide and one's right to die. In 1997 the Supreme Court heard two appeals arguing that New York and Washington statutes that made physician assisted suicide a felony violated the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. In a unanimous vote, the Court held that there was no constitutional right to physician assisted suicide and upheld state bans on assisted suicide. While in New York this has maintained statutes banning physician assisted suicide, the Court's decision also left it open for other states to decide whether they would allow physician assisted suicide or not.
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deficient in providing any kind of meaningful understanding of the topic. Of course, the concept is to some extent self-descriptive from the article title alone, but if there is to be a short description, it really ought to have at least a little more meat on the bones in terms of description and contextualization.
3394:- The word moral is there already, saying controversial is duplication. Anyway what's there is nowhere near being a short description of the topic. The first sentence of the article can easily be shortened down to somthing suitable. In fact I think 'based on the opinion' is redundant in th first sentence. 3690:
Then again, why not consider the possibility that many people want the right to continue living, but feel of little or no value/are under pressure to end their lives/fear that end of life care might be of poor quality? So, before rushing to allow the killing older people, should we not demand decent,
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Contemporary proponents of "rational suicide" or the "right to die" usually demand by "rationality" that the decision to kill oneself be both the autonomous choice of the agent (i.e., not due to the physician or the family pressuring them to "do the right thing" and commit suicide) and a "best option
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To my mind, the primary issue with the short description is not whether or not it includes the particular descriptor of "controversial" (I think there are probably plenty of permutations on the shortdesc where it would work just fine), but the issue is rather the fact that the description is woefully
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could be classed as controversial, pro-abortion, anti-abortion, suicide, left politics, right politics, drug use etc. A wider consensus should be achieved before such terms are added to short descriptions as this could be applied to so many other subject matters. What criteria has this met that those
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In early 2014, a New Mexico Second District Judge Nan Nash ruled that terminally ill patients have the right to aid in dying under the state constitution, ie. making it legal for a doctor to prescribe a lethal dose of medication to a terminally ill patient. The ultimate decision will be made with the
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The term 'right to die' has been interpreted in a number of ways, including issues of suicide, passive euthanasia, active euthanasia, assisted suicide, and physician assisted suicide. As health of citizens is considered a police power left for individual states to regulate, it was not until 1997 that
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I would imagine the NPOV issue with this article would be the lack of information regarding views of those critical of a "right to die" such a many religious conservatives. I think this article needs to explaining the views of those who both oppose having a "right to die" as well as better explaining
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I agree with the IP edit that we shouldn't use the term "Controversial" in the short description. This could be applied to thousands of Knowledge short descriptions. Virtually every view, ideology, stance etc could be considered controversial to some degree. Using such a term here is unnecessary and
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Since 1997, four states in the US have recognized the right to die with dignity. Oregon, Washington, and Vermont, in 1997, 2009, and 2013 respectively, have laws that provide a protocol for the practice of physician assisted suicide. The law in these three states allows terminally ill adult patients
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If I may add an opinion, on reading the two phrasings collected by Dusti on the 25th, I was struck that one asserted the validity of the right and the other asserted that the right was a claim. The former seems inappropriate given that it is such a contentious matter (beyond WP) but the latter seems
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The Banner: the "controversial" version is the one your restored. A non-involved editor also endorse my version as a better one. And another editor also endorsed my point of view on the topic and on the lede, that is instead of the version you restored. Actually you have introduced a change talking
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I'm having trouble figuring out what you're trying to say in this comment. Do you or do you not agree that "view" is the more neutral term used in similar articles? (As well, citing a single source that disagrees that a right to die exists is unlikely to prove convincing to users who have access to
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is more conservative and defines it in terms of a possibility not as a fact (..."may be entitled"...) while this article is showing the thing as it was a matter of fact the existence of such "right to die" while in fact it is not included in any Human rights Declaration, not even recognized in any
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Then neither it forces anybody against a "right", showing this "right" is actually a claim, as it is. The "right to die" is certainly, as the sources state: part of the efforts to legalize euthanasia and assisted suicide, and shall be presented as such, not as an actual right, exactly as the age of
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As someone who has not been involved with this article, the current lead seems quite neutral, however I don't understand the phrase "institutional entitlement". Is this intended to say that an institution can commit suicide (or voluntary euthanasia)? Also, I think the last paragraph of the lead is
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one shall be considered to give an actual definition of the term, and this is not the unique reliable source that start questioning if there exist such a right and also shows that even inside the movement pro eutahansia the pertinence of the term is also a question. Authors like Ian Dowbiggin have
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The "right to die" is a term used in the specific context of the efforts to legalize euthanasia and assisted suicide. It is not an accepted "right" not even for jurisdictions where assisted suicide or euthanasia has been legalized (legalization of eutahnasia does not imply the enforcment of such a
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Where is the source for claiming that this is an human right? why you removed the tag despite of this discussion was not over and Mr X and other editors did NOT agree with your position and proposed different versions on the lead? why are you again removing it again despite of you are an involved
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Peer review from another team (merely suggestions): -Tighten up the anecdotes of the 3 major cases--less re-stating at the end, more active voice -citation is still needed for sentence two of the Canada subsection--I suspect it was referring to the 5, not 6, plaintiff Gloria Taylor case? -Under
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The title of the article is "Right to die" so I don't see the need to source that this is a human right. I don't support this tag either. The article describes how proponents view the right to die as well as critics. I think you are arguing more along the lines as to whether or not this article
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What a nonsense: To expect a "world wide view" on the right to die in a Knowledge article. If a person wants to die, then this does not require a "world wide view". And whenever in a Knowledge article you write about the "Right to die", you must not forget those people, WHO are suffering. Those
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Changed passive voice to active, remove and added articles, removed redundant words, removed commas, fixed some sentences that had unclear antecedents, and added a citation when summarized a philosopher. Broken up some sentences due to length and flow Fixed more passive sentences to better the
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I could not find any source for the "unofficial right" wording. Neither any source sustaining that legalization of euthanasia implies a "right to die". I am still waiting for any source from the other editors to support the proposed versions. They shall start with providing those reliable and
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The difficult part is that there is an official "Right to Die" (legal voluntary euthanasia, under strict conditions legal to assist with suicide) in The Netherlands while Canada is working on it. So it is definitely not a wild claim, as CS wants to put it down, nor a widespread formal right.
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Should be merged !!!!!! "Right-to-die" is a legal, philosophical and moral concept which may or may not be admissible for debate in the current legal climate. "Euthanasia" is a practice (rather, set thereof) which purports to rely on the "right-to-die" concept. Major clean-up required, yes.
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I still agree with users, like Mr X. who noticed the claimed "right to die" is just a disputed but not actual right. A lead portraying the right to die as an human right is just POV promotion of euhanasia, and obviously unsorced, not any human rights declaration includes such a right. --
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Calling something a right doesnt automatically favour it, or force people to favour it, many people here would be opposed to a "right to bear arms" (we have rather strict gun controls in Australia). In some areas Gay Marriage rights still arent majority endorsed either. Need I go on? --
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Added information about the right to die movement and major cases that highlight and propagated this movement. Added information in the US section of how the right to die movement began and how it caused major deabte about the issues of legal death. Copied over from sandbox
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the views of those who argue for a "right to die". Also their needs to be some clarity that some people support the right to have one's own or a family members life support discontinued in certain circumstances but do not supports euthanasia (i.e. assisted suicide). --
3203:- I think you mentioned in class that G would be adding a section on medical perspectives, will that still be added? I think that would be really valuable for the page. - You're editing the heading of the United States page right? I think it looks pretty solid so far. 2823:
to seek lethal medication from their physicians. Montana's law, passed in 2009, does not provide a protocol for the practice, but rather provides legal protection for physicians in the case that they write a prescription for lethal medication upon patient request.
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about a "unofficial right to die" which is clearly your very original point of view, unsourced and unreliable, are you really trying to help providing a sourced wording or just trying to edit based on your personal point of view, if the last just remind WP:OR --
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Pfff, why do we mention an incomplete list of the options that are named as "Right to die"? We should name them all, or none at all. Beside the suicide and voluntary euthanasia you have also the passive euthanasia (refusal of treatment) in various variations.
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For anyone who has access to Questia, there are many, many scholarly sources on this subject. As expected, they're fairly circumspect about defining what the phrase means, beyond simply saying that it is an ongoing social/ethical/medical/political debate. -
1866:(as I said, all "rights" are "controversial" to those who oppose them, even widely accepted ones), what do you think of a compromise wording like "The right to die is the view that there exists an ethical..." etc.? "View" is a term used elsewhere on WP. – 1146: 1456:. I very much do not think this article deserves to stand on its own as is. I suggest somebody either fleshes it out or redirects/merges it to this article. Just bringing it to the attention of other people - currently only one article links to it. 1729: 1545: 1306:
We are all mortal; and if it is true that some of us have no medical help, why do they make it so difficult. Even the Oregon Law requires it be a “fatal” disease. There are many painful disabling diseased that, unfortunately, won’t kill
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We don't generally go about intentionally prejudicing readers against a topic. As I stated, the fact that not everyone agrees that assisted suicide should be a right doesn't mean that Knowledge dismisses it - see, for instance,
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It was predictable that these tags would appear here, now CS could not change the article to his liking. In my opinion, the POV tag is absolute nonsense. Regarding the OR tag: what sections do you regard as "own research", CS?
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The US section under Legal Documents by country requires expansion. It would be good to provide some historical information, because Euthanasia is just one category that falls under what many understand as the right to die.
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I'm sure there's some neutrally worded compromise that we can come up with. It would be nice to find a reliable source to define this, but since the concept is so politically/emotionally charged, that may not be possible. -
1688:". We don't generally go about intentionally prejudicing readers against a topic. The fact that not everyone agrees that assisted suicide should be a right doesn't mean that Knowledge dismisses it - see, for instance, 3142:
When comparing to other “Right to…” articles, we noticed that this article does not have a clear definition/background section. Furthermore, there is limited information about the right to die in the United States.
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We don't also have to prejudicing readers in favor of a topic. you also miss that legalization of euthanasia does not necessarily means nor is understood by the reliable sources as the enforcment of a "right" to get
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Looking at the previous discussions I think starting up an RfC and getting outside opinion was appropriate. There are too many discussions about 'controversial' here and this should stop those one way or the other.
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You take it upon yourself to write for others? And in fact what you write with this assumed authority equates to "we do not need to cover more perspectives on the subject than we currently do; in fact we should be
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This does seem a bit premature for an RFC, but since I'm here anyway I'd say no, it shouldn't be used there in this case. Doing so doesn't seem to comport with the purpose of short descriptions, and in particular
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have the legal right to assisted suicide, the idea that it's just a "controversial claim" floating out in the ether and "alleging" that a right "should" exist is not only an obvious POV push but also inaccurate.
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have the legal right to assisted suicide, the idea that it's just a "controversial claim" floating out in the ether and "alleging" that a right "should" exist is not only an obvious POV push but also inaccurate.
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I'm asking you in advance. It would be nice if Claudio would agree to a compromise, but I'm also preemptively seeking a third opinion from you again since you are not a single-purpose anti-euthanasia account.
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Who is "Pilpel and Amstel"? How did the quotation from their work support or add to the introduction it was placed in? The article's introduction should have references directly supporting its definitions.
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about the point of view of a philosopher. IMHO, this belongs not in the lede and would fit better in the section "Ethics". But in fact, I have doubt if it belongs in the article at all. Opinions please.
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is part of a bioethics debate concerned with whether individuals are entitled to commit suicide or to undergo voluntary euthanasia, particularly in the cases of terminal illness and long term suffering."
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incoherent: a right cannot be a claim. The beginning of ClaudioSantos's explanation of his viewpoint seems to me a much better basis for a lede sentence, though we could trim and adjust it a little: "
1731:. Those facts about the term are the facts to be represented in the lede, instead of presenting it as a actual existing right as could pretend those favoring euthanasia. Even the cited article about 2132:
Well to avoid you too much job: I do agree with the third opinion: my version is more appropiate than the other. And let notice you haven't cited any reliable source supporting your claim at all.--
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Its completely unnecessary to include here. As I stated this could be applied to the short descriptions of so many thousands of other so called controversial topics, but isn't, for good reason.
1790:"The right to die is the controversial claim alleging that there should exist an ethical or institutional entitlement of any individual to commit suicide or to undergo voluntary euthanasia" 3830: 3447:, unnecessary – short descriptions are only supposed to have the most basic information to identify the field of the article and distinguish it from other articles with similar names. Per 1686:
The right to die is the controversial claim alleging that there should exist an ethical or institutional entitlement of any individual to commit suicide or to undergo voluntary euthanasia
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I am not accusing you, I am leaving the issue and the decision to an admin. I have to report your comment due: as far as I know the admins explicity and repeateadly prohibited you to do
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Speaking of which, only arguments for have been presented in this article. To keep a neutral, encyclopedic style to this article, surely arguments for both sides should be presented?
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Team coordination plan: - We will communicate over private Slack messages. - We will meet regularly during our classes. - We will collaborate over Google Drive to organize files.
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OK. Obviously I disagree, but that's what 3O is for. Your comment mentions that you think stating it as a right is non-neutral; since my concern is the use of prejudicial words
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could be considered controversial by some for example, and yet this is one of a vast array of examples where such odes to controversy are not found in the short description.
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It is fairly rare for a lead and lead sentence to be sourced. The lead should be/is only a summary of the article. So you will find your sources in the Ethics section.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
3189:"Ethics", define what TADA is/link it -Maybe rename Ethics as "Ethical Arguments"? -Remove religion from the introduction as it is restated under another subheading 3860: 3626: 3451:, it should "use universally accepted facts that will not be subject to rapid change, avoiding anything that could be understood as controversial or judgemental". — 2517:
This is similar to what Neby proposed, and avoids words like alleged and controversial. I offer this only as a starting point -- it would need some wordsmithing. -
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In reviewing the conflict, it's simply the opening text that's being disputed. From what I understand, there are two different sentences that have been suggested:
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Hello, I am Kelly and I am a student editor assigned to edit this article. Please let me know if you end up reverting my edits so I know what I did wrong!
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Are you starting a new discussion or responding to me? If the latter, could you please offer an alternative wording that might address the concerns? -
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Overall, we will enhance the quality of this page by providing a standard “Definition” section. We may augment other sections depending on necessity.
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A related but new discussion: what should we put in the lead, all variations or none. Removal of all can take quite some heat out of this discussion.
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humans are not able to write in the Knowledge, so I do for them. Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- replace AT by @ ) (13032007)
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Hmmm, I think that you also have the history on mind. In this case specifically the history of ClaudioSantos as known anti-euthanasia "campaigner"!
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Sorry, I don't look up WP:OR. Reading the history of your talk page explains much more where you are coming from and what your objectives are.
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The Right to Die is something that can be theoretical, or something that can only be understood by someone with an incurable, painful disease.
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I agree with Zvozin's above assessment and I believe it could not have been stated any better, and therefore it should not be merged. --
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I proposed the merger because Right to die should be covered in euthanasia as it essentially the same thing but without the POV title.--
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Added more information on arguments for and against right to die. Used literature reviews to see how did the right to die come about.
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The right to die is the ethical or institutional entitlement of any individual to commit suicide or to undergo voluntary euthanasia
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Why not considering a "game over"? A possibility for every human being that doesn't desire to continue living. "Selbsmordrecht".
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also shown that this term emerged as an attempt to clean the euthanasia associationts from the word "euthanasia" after WWII. --
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Perhaps, rather that this simmering tag edit war, we could discuss how to improve this article so that we don't need tags. -
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Could we take the Ethics section, which is is sourced, and use it as a starting point? Perhaps an opening sentence like this:
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
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comment such the last one you did about me. Any further concern just talk with the admins. This conversation is over. --
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I can understand you agree, but your version is totally POV and it lacks sources about that. So I have changed in into
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the perspectives on the subject we cover to only the perspectives of those in a certain position"? How arrogant. --
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notes, the short description is not meant to summarize the article. So FWIW, I don't think this is the way to go.--
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WP rating: Start Class This article has significant room for improvement and relates to geriatric/end of life care.
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https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10644975876581235704&q=vacco+v.+quill&hl=en&as_sdt=40000006
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featured on this page? Socrates didn’t commit suicide; he drank the hemlock under duress as a form of execution.
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the Internet, ie. all users, and can easily find many more sources of equal quality that do believe it exists.) –
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other subjects have not? Who has decided this criterion? What reliable sources does this claim come from etc?
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That's a decision to be made by politicians, not by encyclopedia writers. Btw: maybe you can look at the
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And I am aware that you immediately started complaining about wikihouding with a admin. That admin asked
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is always desired. If the two of you are able to come up with an alternate intro, definitely do so! :)
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Just noting as an uninvolved editor that I see no reason to have the POV or OR tags in this article.
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Hello, we are graduate student editors assigned to edit this article. Our work plan is as follows:
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I added some arguments for and against the right to die debate under ethics portion -Kelly Nguyen
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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Note: the IP already removed the text (s)he disagrees with. Fir clarity sake, I did but it here:
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All WP articles need sources. It's how we keep it from being the bank of lies people see it as.
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Why this one? Include WP rating scale? How fit with your interests. Other details as desired
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Ah, here we go again. I have reverted your controversial edit as inapproriate for the lead.
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The lede is absolutely unsourced and nothing in the lede is mentioned in the body. --
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We need a section which brings the arguments for and against "right to die" debate.--
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The present intro is neutral and sourced. Why you still see it as POV I don't know.
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http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/19/nation/la-na-new-mexico-aid-dying-20140120
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Added a map showing which states allow the right to die and which does not
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well funded, end of life care as an option in every hospital and care home?
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The RFC you have slapped on this starting discussion is also unnecessary.
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consent reform is not presented as a right to have sex with children. --
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Not necessary. "Legal and moral concept" is fine in terms of neutrality.
2907:- can you help expand it? She is worth mentioning in this article too. 2856:
http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-14/35-right-to-die.html
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in preventing suicide is often up for debate. Pilpel and Amsel wrote:
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tagged it without (apparently) starting any discussion on the matter.
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controversial to the bone and therefore is not POV as the IP claims.
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Proponents typically associate the right to die with the idea that
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Should the term "Controversial" be used in the short description?
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outcome of New Mexico's Attorney General's appeal to the ruling.
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not appropriate for a short description. I also agree it should
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part of the efforts to legalize euthanasia and assisted suicide
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I get the cleanup tag, this article is a mess, but why NPOV?
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http://time.com/3551560/brittany-maynard-right-to-die-laws/
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What we have to keep in mind with an article like this is
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Shall be "right to die" presented as an actual right here?
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The essence is that the principle of the "right to die"
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who are to decide if you are again wikihounding me. --
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Low-importance social and political philosophy articles
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to behave politely, an accusation about wikihouding is
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Also fixed punctuation and grammar to better the flow
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Roles in the project. List members and planned roles.
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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for the lead, and should be relegated to a section (
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Social and political philosophy task force articles
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Should just be an option possible in every hospital
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Good to know. – 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3583:under the circumstances" choice desired by the 3568: 2946:https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Kjsnguyen/sandbox 1680:(partly c/p from above) I support the wording " 409:and that biomedical information in any article 3207:Using "Controversial" in the short description 1696:- and since in a number of jurisdictions one 1519:- and since in a number of jurisdictions one 407:Manual of Style for medicine-related articles 197: 157: 8: 1824:By keeping policy in mind, and by keeping a 3692: 3179:- Overseer: S - Researcher: K - Editor: G 3063: 3029: 2999: 2974: 2949: 1423: 992: 887: 736: 676: 563: 462: 351: 239: 1220:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 1163:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 1110:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 3167:Right to die, United States subsection 1995:Ow, afraid for some background details? 1404:Pro and Against Arguments section needed 3617: 3595:, achieved after due deliberation, etc. 3572:one's body and one's life are one's own 2848: 1218:Above undated message substituted from 1161:Above undated message substituted from 1108:Above undated message substituted from 994: 889: 738: 565: 464: 353: 241: 211: 3861:Low-importance Libertarianism articles 3552:2600:1700:CDA:A2C0:845E:BF52:B14D:7218 3545:Introduction needs stronger references 637:about philosophy content on Knowledge. 3891:High-importance Human rights articles 3627:"What is Wrong with Rational Suicide" 183: 7: 2926:Grammar Edits and Adding Information 2356: 1024:This article is within the scope of 935:This article is within the scope of 790:This article is within the scope of 621:This article is within the scope of 510:This article is within the scope of 399:This article is within the scope of 277:This article is within the scope of 3866:WikiProject Libertarianism articles 3345:about the controversy(ies). But as 3339:Knowledge:Short_description#Content 3171:What will you decrease coverage of? 520:and the subjects encompassed by it. 416:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Medicine 23:for discussing improvements to the 3811:Low-importance Philosophy articles 3147:Overall organization, what changes 1452:I've stumbled upon this article - 1317:"Euthanasia" is not "Right to die" 1195: 1191: 1142: 1138: 1044:Knowledge:WikiProject Human rights 14: 3896:WikiProject Human rights articles 3881:Low-importance sociology articles 2312:?) in the body of the article. - 1047:Template:WikiProject Human rights 3851:Low-importance politics articles 3781:Mid-importance medicine articles 3766:High-importance Suicide articles 3028:Added a picture near the title 2665:part of the content dispute? -- 2357: 2186:a non-official (...) entitlement 1198:. Further details are available 1185: 1145:. 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