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definitely a relevant topic. In Kafr Kanna, both the Greek
Orthodox church and the Catholic one have one or more, both letting to some degree the worshippers believe that theirs are the authentic ones, although they should know better. The same happens in the Greek Catholic church in Qana. Khirbet Kana isn't inhabited, nor has it a church, but archaeologists have also presented stone vessel sherds as proof for... whatever, since they're not supposed to work for the Church. The jars are a great magnet for pilgrims, with spiritual as well as major commercial implications at each one of the sites. Shimon Gibson, a major pursuer on the quest for "authentic" biblical sites (I'm sure that he'll be the one to discover Jesus' own shampoo bottle and John's moth-proof bag for fur garments, no doubt about it), but a real expert too, put them nicely in their right place: chalk stone vessels have become a banal and ubiquitous marker for Jewish settlements in the halakhically defined Land of Israel between the 1st c. BCE and the 1st c. CE. Only there, never before and hardly ever after that. Within those geographical and time limits, finding sites go into their thousands - see for instance Jodi Magness's 2017 article for more detail and analysis. But Cana and the jars go together like, well, love and marriage, for academic & theological reference see Al & Peg Bundy. So we do need the topic in the article. Humming along, yours
1088:, and Jesus himself. The simplest Google search will find an infinite amount of speculation on this on the internet, but there is absolutely no warrant for any of it in the text of John, and absolutely no independent source that says anything about this event; so it is all basically idle. All we know is that (i) John asserts there was a wedding, (ii) events reported in John are frequently not reported anywhere else, and (iii) John reports events which support the literary and theological structure of his gospel as a book of signs. Everything else is interpretation, some of it sensible, some of it not.
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problem given that the vast majority of stuff, not just articles in wikipedia, in this field has been written by
Christian academics/apologists/evangelists. Not suprising. But it does mean that much material may be written from a faith-based as opposed to a logic-based perspective. And there is likely very often to be a lack of balance.
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How notable is this information/section? Not only does it seem somewhat out of the place to the rest of the page, but it reads like "Some voice in the wilderness proposed this and NO ONE agrees with it" so I'm wondering how notable or important the whole issue is. Obviously someone spent alot of time
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What is the significance of this story about a wedding and wine? The purpose may be to learn that Jesus will obey his mother (the fourth commandment to respect one's parents) and that one may gain the ear of Jesus by addressing his mother (the
Blessed Virgin). Thus, prayers to the mother of Jesus are
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You can state your opinion again and again, but policy wins. I have also noticed that you are adding the same unreliable references elsewhere on
Knowledge (XXG) and are getting reverted. Does that say something? Stop adding unreliable facts now. You are editing against policy and I will issue warning
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Non-believers are likely not to have been so motivated to do and publish the research. So there is likely to be relatively less of it. And it is not going to be quoted by the faith-based community, so there will be fewer quotes of it. As I say, the only safe way to examine any particular contribution
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National
Galleries of Art). There are several cases where it's called "marriage feast at Cana". I would still prefer the article to be called "Wedding at Cana", like most people (and reliable sources) would and do call it. The Wiki rules clearly are in favour of the most common name, and there is no
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The way it happened is in the edit-history: some editor added that and hence the rebuttal had to go in to balance it. It is probably too long - or maybe the rest of the article is too short? But overall it all needs to be there, including your addition, else someone will add the whole thing again in
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However, the argument that the marriage at cana was Jesus' own wedding is backed by a lot of direct and indirect evidence in and out of the texts. It has as much merit as the case that the marriage that Jesus "came out" from his seclusion to engage in was just a random event in
Galilee, key elements
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of
Genesis 1), Almighty God was able to create a universe that appeared to be much older (13+ billion years) than it was. Light from the most distant objects in the universe appear to be 13+ billion light-years away. Visible light from those most distant objects appears to be 13+ billion years old.
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asserts that the most collectible or most valuable wines have a "drinking window plateau (i.e., the period for maturity and approachability) that is many years long" - retrieved 2011.02.03. In other words, the best wines require years to mature and become the best that they can be. In a very brief
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As far as
Donovan Joyce is concerned, it can be agreed that his is a popular work and sensational "and" that he almost certainly invented the whole saga of the "fifteenth" scroll as a hook by which to publicise his book. And that other elements, such as the suggested link between the Jesus movement
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The article on Mary
Magdalene makes reference to the argument (under 'Relationship with Jesus') and there are many authors quoted including Joyce, Dan Brown and Starbird, some of whom in turn refer to the Marriage at Cana, for evidence to support their arguments. It would therefore be odd to have
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As to
Cresswell's explanation for the "O woman, what have you to do with me" phrase, I agree it is not central to the article. But it does offer a resolution for what is otherwise a very discordant comment. If there is a better explanation, perhaps someone can help out by locating it and adding a
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Somebody has taken out the entire paragraph about the stone jars sometime between 2011 and 2021. I've rewritten it a bit and put it back in, using the original material. If "Wine or beer" is a topic, then the jars, which come up every time smb. supports a particular site as the authentic one, is
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I find it curious that almost half the first section of this article (and the majority of the sources attached to it) is dedicated towards promulgating a false claim about Mormon doctrine. Clearly this is a violation of standards for POV, since it provides only a partial truth that is obviously
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Religious articles often do not deal with verifiable facts but with critical analysis of texts; this one is no exception. So the question is whether any published analysis deserves to be included. I would argue that the criteria should exclusively be merit. Going with the majority view can be a
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was just removed from this article with the comment "pov fork." I'm no expert, but don't see a POV problem (would appreciate a discussion of that). In fact, the two articles seem to overlap to a considerable extent and should probably be one. Thoughts? --John
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Until that is done, however, I will restore the changes. That is because they do give additional information, do provide an alternative supported case and do thus provide balance. Appeals to a presumed majority view (see comment above) will not be sufficient.
1029:"Most revealing"? In the sense that they are the only canonical source for this event, that is correct, but they are still rather laconic and concerned primarily with presenting Jesus as sign-giver, not all the historical details we might wonder about. --
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time during the wedding at Cana, Jesus Christ was able to produce wine that had the attributes of the best wines and that appeared to the senses to be many years old. On a grander scale, one may assert that in a very brief period of time (such as the
1758:. Still, I won't put this 'Ain Kana back in, since it seems to have been dropped from the list of candidates since Conder's time - see the comments by Laney (1977), a source offered by Vanished and certainly where he got it from in the first place.
1647:"Wedding at Cana" seems definitely much more common than "Marriage at Cana", but surprisingly enough there are cases where 'marriage' is also used by serious institutions (see for instance one "The Marriage at Cana" each for the
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I removed it from the list, but not (yet) from the highlighted places on the map, as it still helps to illustrate how common the name is, i.e. the "dozen towns" by the name of Kanna/Qana mentioned by J. Murphy O'Connor.
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If anyone can make a reasoned case here that (a) the article had balance as it was and that (b) the added explanation has substantially less merit, then I will of course agree to withdraw or modify my additions.
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Several writers have pointed out that, in being responsible for the wine, Jesus’ mother was acting as parent of the bridegroom and that, in resolving the issue, Jesus appeared to have been the bridegroom (ref).
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of which - eg the names of the bride and bridegroom - happen to have been lost, with the associations with Jesus and his family as major players coincidental. Therefore it needs to be included for balance.
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mentioned by Murphy-O'Connor, which indeed is in Israeli Galilee, not in the Lebanese Galilee, and certainly not even further north of that. As our vanished colleague wrote, "Ain Kana, which is closer to
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designed to make readers believe something that is contrary to fact. I have added another source and additional information to hopefully remedy this; I will try to find more to continue fix the problem.--
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Her name is Mary. Why are we not calling her by her name in this article? He didn't have more than one mother and though the bible might not call her by her name in this section we sure as heck can.
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project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects,
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Came here to say this. It's very odd that the article title is "Marriage at Cana" when in the very first sentence we say that "Wedding at Cana" is the more common description of the event. --
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doubt that 'wedding' beats 'marriage' and 'marriage feast' by a huge margin. So, move it? The Veronese painting has a "The" to differentiate it from this article, that's not a problem.
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I think the ref should be to Cresswell pp 173-77 but am open to suggestions. He at least avoids all the unsubstantiated stuff about royal blood lines, exile in France and so forth.
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Within a period of a few minutes or less, Jesus Christ was able to create wine with the attributes of the best wines that are aged for many years. The Knowledge (XXG) article on
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Another editor (a 3rd editor) already stated that your references are not WP:RS when he deleted your text. So the non-WP:RS issue is clear and is not even being discussed here.
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It is not a question of mistakes in technology, you edits are simply against "Knowledge (XXG) policy". Take it from me, running against policy will only buy you ONE THING:
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I'd leave it as is. It's slightly less ambiguous (since there are several Mary's but only one mother of Jesus), it's how John wrote it, and there's no reason to change it.
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I did not even know the lost article existed. Some material seems to need to get merged into here, but who invented the term "lost jars"? No reference for it. I say merge.
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I think it is also that Jesus answers/ responds to man. Ask/receive. I ask here for forgiveness upon the story. To fill me and soften my heart. Jesus starts his work?
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Again you have not provided any solid WP:RS sources, or general scholarly agreement, and the material seems like a rehash of the same as before, in a different package.
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re: my comments above. We say in the very first sentence that "Wedding at Cana" is the more common phrase, and that should be the title of the article. --
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And I also see Cresswell as a tangential writer, and far less than notable or mainstream on this topic, given that he is not a biblical scholar, etc.
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There are many traditions, but absolutely no evidence, as to who the parties might have been. The most frequent suggestion is that the bride was
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Aaaand the answer is: VanishedUserABC! Who really did vanish in 2013. He wrote much of the initial material, and this "Spring of Qana" came up
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Yes by all means combine them. The first thing that I thought when I looked at the Lost Jars article was, "Why is this a separate article"?
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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and considered by some to be a better candidate on etymological grounds" fits perfectly with a spring mentioned by Conder, at
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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OK. I agree not to restore Joyce, or the reference to 'O Woman' comment which, though interesting, is not at all central.
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When multiple editors object to your edit you MUST NOT revert, but must discuss or follow other dispute resolution paths.
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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1376:. In the end, after all the talk, policy will win against whatever logic you assemble in your own mind. The facts are:
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One point of the story may have been to assert Jesus’ superiority over Dionysos, god of wine making and wine.(ref)
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Maybe a fork without a pov. But definitely a fork - the Jars material could easily be covered in this article.
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Amanata, I've also reverted you. Please don't replace it unless you can get a consensus to replace it, see
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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A wedding is an event where two people get married; marriage is the union that results from a wedding.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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It might also be useful (next par but one) to have a reference across to the article on Dionysos:
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No, it does not. I recommend everyone interested reading Johns Gospels. They are most revealing.
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nothing in the article on Marriage at Cana itself; the article is a bit thin without it.
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A section has been added for the feast date. You can now add your information to it.
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The Orthodox feast day might be on the 3rd Sunday after Epiphany. Must be found out.
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which appears to be the name it is referred to in most sources cited in the article.
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Apologies by the way for any inadvertent mistakes I make in using this technology.
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Who even brought it up? A local patriot? Please, not without a source. Cheers,
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on it since there are mult ref's, but I propose deleting the entire section as
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There are 9 people called Mary in the New Testament. This is less ambiguous.
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History says the bride was Jesus sister(daughter of Mary) is it correct?
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I have removed the unsourced and geographically unsuitable village of
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Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review
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There is a long mention of Don Joyce now, but I see it as pure
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Ain Qana: unsourced and outside Galilee - who brought it up?
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a valid path towards intervention by the divine powers.
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I therefore suggest a very limited addition, as follows:
1387:. Hence can not be used. Your statement that the book is
2055:. Clear common name. And move the painting as above. --
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Does the bible say the groom was a friend of Jesus's?
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1982:. I'd also vote to move
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1706:Litani River
1695:
1627:— Preceding
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30:This is the
2083:Lucy voice
1896:move review
1579:History2007
1563:Antodav2007
1520:—Preceding
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1419:History2007
1389:sensational
1374:wasted time
1301:History2007
1189:—Preceding
1133:History2007
1104:Merge from
1056:—Preceding
1004:—Preceding
875:transcluded
859:. List any
844:select here
812:Burger King
581:Food portal
159:free images
42:not a forum
2147:Categories
2057:Necrothesp
1815:References
1780:Stone jars
1614:Ckruschke
1577:9 months.
1444:Dougweller
1111:A link to
1858:2521-8034
1853:: 39–65.
1604:Ckruschke
1294:WP:Fringe
829:WP:Trivia
756:Soy sauce
724:status:
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
2115:Arminden
1992:162 etc.
1909:Favonian
1830:(2017).
1787:Arminden
1767:Arminden
1763:Ain Qana
1752:Nazareth
1735:Ain Qana
1717:Arminden
1698:Ain Qana
1658:Arminden
1629:unsigned
1600:WP:UNDUE
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1361:contribs
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987:Question
838:Add the
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510:inactive
484:inactive
455:inactive
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
2053:Support
2030:Support
2007:Support
1980:Support
1961:Support
1863:16 July
1288:Fringe?
968:on the
661:history
634:on the
430:on the
319:on the
210:C-class
165:WPÂ refs
153:scholar
1756:Reineh
1211:Apollo
1169:Apollo
1090:seglea
764:Yogurt
216:scale.
137:Google
2018:Chaos
1965:Jfruh
1947:Hazhk
1835:(PDF)
1747:dozen
1676:Jfruh
1385:WP:RS
808:Apple
790:Sugar
760:Sushi
744:Drink
740:Curry
736:Bread
671:purge
666:watch
598:drink
349:Jesus
292:Bible
283:Bible
239:Bible
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
2134:talk
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2035:LSGH
1996:talk
1969:talk
1951:talk
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1855:ISSN
1849:and
1805:talk
1791:talk
1771:talk
1731:here
1721:talk
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1253:See
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960:High
831:and
816:Fish
782:Beer
748:Food
732:Beef
681:here
656:edit
626:High
596:and
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173:FENS
147:news
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