2160:@Insulation2 I don't think you understand the science. Most pre-pandemic reports weren't seriously reviewed prior to publication, often in low quality journals. There are plenty of sources saying that the tMRCA is in November and with either the A or B haplotype, ie. the one found in Wuhan in December. The epidemiology agrees with that. Contamination and lab mistakes are relatively common and explain most of the pre-pandemic reports. The WHO report is open peer-reviewed since months and was written with many relevant parties, including the lab which reproduced the Italian 2019 serologies and didn't find any clear match.
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reputable news sources as "a staple among some conspiracy theorists" and "half-baked" is prima facie evidence of bias. Whoever wants to challenge the peer-reviewed research that concludes Covid-19 was present in Italy earlier, must cite peer-reviewed studies which invalidate it. That has not been done. This article fails to meet the
Knowledge NPOV standard.
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There is evidence from multiple sources, some in the peer-reviewed
Italian journal Tumori Journal, that Covid-19 was present in Italy before it could have spread from the Wuhan outbreak. The fact that this "doesn't fit" the WHO narrative is not evidence against its validity. Dismissing reports from
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As early as the second week of
November 2019, contrary to the denial of the Pentagon, the American National Center for Medical Intelligence shared intelligence based on "monitoring of internal Chinese communications" that warned US allies, Israel, and NATO of a potential novel coronavirus pandemic
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Reference 9 and 10 are the same article, only 10 is using the full article of 9, and they credit them at the beginning. By citing different sources with the same origin, it will diminish the quality of this work. The lack of subsequent confirmation of these allegations also suggests more caution
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It is 100% clear to me that the outside China 2019 reports should be mentioned in a distinct section, at the end of the article, because none is strongly supported by enough data, and if correct, any of them would imply that the main timeline (in Wuhan) is incorrect. Same for the SCMP 16 November
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Bat origin (zoonotic spillover) may or may not be true, and that's still a possible-to-likely pathway. Not "very likely" or "certain", and definitely not current "scientific consensus", so that idea should be probably be adjusted. But that's not the issue here. The question is if was doing the
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It is, by definition fringe since it is outside the mainstream view. It's also a staple among some conspiracy theorists (the COVID's not new it's just being exploited for political purposes crowd). There are no reliable reports it was "doing the rounds" in 2019, just some half-baked suggestive
1974:"Slippery slope" arguments are fallacious: if someone's presenting unsubstantiated theories then they can be swiftly countered. But to call reputable journals' output "half-baked suggestive research" is profoundly concerning. What is the agenda being enforced here?
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There are multiple problems here. First of all, the two references are to Common Dreams and Salon. Salon is yellow at RSP, and Common Dreams is not mentioned but likely worse than yellow. I would suggest instead basing it on sources that are clearly
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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. The former page's talk page can be accessed at
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According to this research in the CDC's
Emerging Infectious Diseases journal, the first confirmed case of COVID-19 in Italy ("Sequence analysis... showed 100% identity to the reference sequence Wuhan-HU-1") dates to 21 November 2019:
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Information to add to this article: the roadblocks that appeared around the Wuhan
Institute of Virology between October 14 and October 19, 2019. Or is this mentioned in some other Knowledge article?
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I agree with
Alexbrn, stay with good RS and, for exceptional information such as pre-December-2019 cases of COVID, the burden is on the editor to find at least a couple of MEDRS to back it up.
1817:) 14:06, 21 June 2021 (UTC) (Perhaps that BBC one is no good. The standard advice is that when we see a newspaper headline with a question mark, the answer is invariably "NO".). Another one
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The scientific consensus is that the virus is of
Chinese bat origin, so all these ideas that it was around in Italy (or California, or wherever else) are fringe and shouldn't be amped up.
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La Rosa, Giuseppina; Mancini, Pamela; Bonanno
Ferraro, Giusy; Veneri, Carolina; Iaconelli, Marcello; Bonadonna, Lucia; Lucentini, Luca; Suffredini, Elisabetta (January 2021).
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rounds outside China before 2020, and there are many reports to support that, including mainstream stuff, so again this is not 'fringe'.
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Above are several links to mainstream sites. Yet this is classed as 'fringe'? Is there any evidence to suggest that?
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and keep fringe ideas in unreliable sources properly in context. What we have currently is fine.
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we should not take sides on disputed information. Instead, we should describe the controversy.
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Is this an unreliable source or "half-baked suggestive research"?
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1901:All failing
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1753:. Retrieved
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1337:Section name
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1280:this version
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30:This is the
2145:Insulation2
1597:31 December
1554:30 December
1541:29 December
1513:28 December
1485:27 December
1472:24 December
1459:16 December
1446:15 December
1433:10 December
897:Pulmonology
390:written in
42:not a forum
2249:Categories
1755:2021-06-21
1744:: 141711.
1653:References
1405:8 December
1392:1 December
451:List-class
1827:BBC again
1823:Bloomberg
401:travelled
363:, or any
301:citations
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
1976:Chumpih.
1950:Chumpih.
1921:Chumpih.
1903:WP:MEDRS
1889:Chumpih.
1878:Chumpih.
1849:Chumpih.
1831:Chumpih.
1811:Chumpih.
1799:BBC News
1795:Standard
1768:WP:MEDRS
1706:Chumpih.
1640:See also
957:Medicine
888:Medicine
642:COVID-19
629:COVID-19
585:COVID-19
413:artefact
343:WP:MEDRS
329:COVID-19
299:Include
220:Archives
189:Springer
154:Cochrane
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
1994:Alexbrn
1962:Alexbrn
1935:Alexbrn
1907:Alexbrn
1875:US News
1863:Reuters
1776:Alexbrn
1774:claim.
1684:35,788
1604:10,660
1345:Section
1284:history
1242:on the
1137:on the
1110:Viruses
1101:viruses
1057:Viruses
984:on the
893:Society
863:on the
836:History
827:History
783:History
758:on the
669:on the
560:on the
417:analyse
409:defence
283:dispute
2008:Forich
1845:Search
1807:nature
1803:Forbes
1681:35,788
1634:4,821
1619:5,822
1591:2,862
1576:3,300
1561:7,536
1548:2,541
1535:1,043
1520:1,059
1507:1,073
1492:1,089
1479:2,985
1399:1,387
1386:3,524
1373:2,125
1347:total
457:scale.
405:centre
397:colour
237:2Â days
177:OpenMD
147:PubMed
2222:WP:RS
1678:Total
1631:4,821
1616:5,822
1588:2,862
1573:3,300
1558:1,374
1545:2,541
1532:1,043
1504:1,073
1476:2,985
1396:1,387
1383:3,524
1370:2,125
1353:(Top)
1342:count
1215:2010s
1206:2010s
1162:2010s
533:China
524:China
480:China
203:Wiley
95:Seek
2237:talk
2197:talk
2166:talk
2149:talk
2099:talk
2030:talk
2012:talk
1998:talk
1980:talk
1966:talk
1954:talk
1939:talk
1925:talk
1911:talk
1893:talk
1882:talk
1871:SCMP
1853:talk
1835:talk
1815:talk
1780:talk
1710:talk
1673:827
1466:161
1453:201
1440:359
1427:533
1412:548
1360:704
1340:Byte
1234:High
1129:High
855:High
750:High
661:High
633:join
552:High
323:The
196:Trip
170:Gale
162:DOAJ
84:and
1886:CNN
1847:.
1829:.
1825:.
1821:.
1746:doi
1742:750
1670:827
1660:28
1647:54
1463:161
1450:201
1437:359
1424:533
1357:704
976:Low
210:TWL
2251::
2239:)
2199:)
2168:)
2151:)
2101:)
2032:)
2014:)
2000:)
1982:)
1968:)
1941:)
1927:)
1913:)
1895:)
1873:,
1869:,
1865:,
1855:)
1809:.
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1801:,
1797:,
1782:)
1740:.
1736:.
1712:)
1657:28
1644:54
1601:17
1517:16
1489:16
1409:15
1036:).
1012:).
895:/
891::
415:,
411:,
407:,
403:,
399:,
235::
227:,
65:;
2235:(
2195:(
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2147:(
2097:(
2028:(
2010:(
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1978:(
1964:(
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1937:(
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1813:(
1778:(
1758:.
1748::
1708:(
1295:.
1246:.
1141:.
988:.
954:.
867:.
762:.
673:.
639:.
564:.
463::
431:.
297:.
285:.
229:2
225:1
222::
206:·
200:·
192:·
186:·
180:·
174:·
166:·
158:·
150:·
144:·
69:.
20:)
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