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2357:. Also I would like to address a comment from 2019 I saw above: it's true that most articles on Holowka's death might not mention Zoe Quinn, but they all mention the accusations, and they do in general single out the specific ones from Quinn, for example the BBC says he was accused by "a female games designer" (not several) (
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recent article use she and her, and those seem to be the only recent articles that talk about Quinn. Given that use of she and her have more support in the most recent RS, are of at least equal status with they/them according to her profile, and are easier to read, especially for non-native speakers,
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The mention of the
Project Tingle story seems oddly vague - 'Quinn was reported to be working with erotica author Chuck Tingle.' The Kickstarter strikes me as more direct source to say something more like 'Quinn launched a Kickstarter named 'Kickstarted in the Butt' with erotica author Chuck Tingle.'
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That sort of source does not comply with
Knowledge's standards for reliable sources. Knowledge considers them to be 'self-published', which means that they do not meet the standards for sources that introduce contentious material into a biography of a living person. If we were to use these sources to
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Obviously we can add information that information that is in accordance of
Knowledge's core policies. But I get the sense from your other edits here that you might not have a clear grasp of those policies. If your question is "has the status quo on Knowledge shifted in such a way that might allow me
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I agree, I think it was newsworthy and covered in significant media - her role in the Me Too movement is significant. That said, this article is a sensitive one, and I'm not the most brushed up on living persons articles, much less semi-protected ones. What work would need to be done to update this
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discussion regarding whether or not the allegations are even warranted for
Holowka's page. It seems like this is really stretching for notability. Also: I have no idea what his death has to do with Quinn, but the placement in the article seems to imply some kind of connection between the accusation
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removed the part about Alec
Holowka's suicide with a rather lazy "per the talk page" comment but the recent consensus here seems to be that it SHOULD be included, which I agree with. I think the fact that the Wired called this whole thing "the #metoo moment of the video gaming industry" (not exact
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or any of several similar templates which simply describe which of several style options is currently in use, so that other users may follow that style option to maintain consistency. If the article switches to they/them, then the template will follow suit. That said, a single discussion or usage
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It would be interesting to know why they changed and then changed back but I can't see anything obvious when I search Google News and, of course, they are under absolutely no obligation to explain themself if they don't want to. If they were experimenting to see which pronouns yielded the least
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Alright, if that's the case, it doesn't seem like it's worth the effort for the (marginal) benefit it would bring this article. It is certainly an interesting detail, and a story that seems important to the overall Me Too movement though. Also, I took a look and you're right, there weren't many
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2382:. That's really not going to change unless (a) there are new reliable sources published later on, or (b) the existing reliable sources get updated. I also don't see any recent consensus here, only editors bringing up the same articles from 2019, which isn't going to shift that weight.
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I've just reverted an addition of this topic, on the basis that: a) the inclusion in the lead section was UNDUE; b) particularly as it focused on recent events (WP:RECENTISM), and; c) it will need a better source than that which was provided, an op-ed in RT. -
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add material to articles, all sorts of gossip, slander and libelous material would find its way in, which would tarnish the quality of
Knowledge's information as well as potentially open up Knowledge to legal action. For further information, please read
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Given the recent tragic event involving Alec on August 31, 2019, will we be permitted to cover events related to that event--as reported by the news media in relation to Zoe--on Zoe's page, as we would if this page belonged to someone other than Zoe?
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Yes, of course, if the coverage is sourced reliably and it falls into due weight. If she's barely mentioned, then probably not. At most, this might support a sentence somewhere, but nothing more than that as his death is not, you know, about
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The article text now refers to "Quinn" mostly by last name, and appears to avoid using gendered pronouns wherever possible, excepting double-quoted sourced quotations, which are appropriately left unaltered. Accordingly, I've added the
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style should govern pronouns for Quinn at both articles (or at any other article which talks about them), so if the two are different, that should be addressed. This being the Quinn article, it should be addressed here, or just make a
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pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included
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2717:? Is that actually a thing? I'm usually quite up-to-date with developments in gender politics, but it just reads like an overly niminy-piminy hairsplitting category, almost parodistic of trans-conscious vocabulary.
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template to the header section of this Talk page, echoing the current usage. If the article pronoun usage changes, the template should be changed to reflect it. (After this discussion section is archived, the
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Ngl, i have been watching this article for around a year now, and it definetly seems more than necessary to put in Alec allegations or some sort of news about that. It's on his page, why cant it be on hers?
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Normally IPs are quick to let us know when these things change, but that may not have happened this time since even the talk page is semiprotected. Of course, I understand why that was done.
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for covering suicide recommend against this kind of oversimplification of the reasons for a persons death. If sources are saying "Quinn made him kill himself" they're probably not reliable.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/03/18/appellate-argument-today-as-to-the-order-that-eron-gjoni-not-post-any-further-information-about-zoe-quinn/
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I don't have an opinion about that, and merely added the template to reflect current usage; i.e., it's descriptive, not prescriptive. In that way, it's like template
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pronouns are used about once every paragraph on average. If "Quinn" is used a lot, I think it's just because of cases where "they" would be ambiguous (e.g.
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to add some reddit nonsense to the entry?" the answer is: "absolutely not, you are wasting your time here and you should find something else to edit."
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procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
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Archive.today is good at
Twitter threads. Or maybe try archiving the Nitter page of the Twitter profile, that should work across all archives.
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article with a section describing the allegation, the corroboration, the unfortunate suicide, and the quote that
Holowka "wished Zoe well" ? --
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Annoying to see that it looks like changes in
Twitter prevent Archive.org from successfully archiving users' profile pages like it used to. --
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https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/349594/Night_in_the_Woods_devs_cut_ties_with_Alec_Holowka_after_abuse_allegations.php
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This article has the appearance of being a bit of a PoV battleground though. I'll beg off editing main here, please.
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https://gamasutra.com/view/news/349504/New_allegations_of_sexual_assault_surface_against_established_game_devs.php
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It appears that Zoe Quinn now uses she and they pronouns, rather than just they/them. As proof, I present her
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Agree. I still haven't seen high quality sources saying the death was a suicide, and the most recent coverage
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I think we can and should change the article back to using they/them pronouns. I'll give that a go. --
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https://www.salon.com/2019/08/28/gamergate-2-0-zoe-quinn-accuses-game-developer-alec-holowka-of-abuse/
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Well, I think you and I might be seeing this article different ways. To me this reads as already on
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quote) makes it obviously notable to include in her article, same with the Salon article posted by
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on
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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So, if anyone wants to put in the work to add this, here's the source links from Alec's article:
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I suggest reading through the archives because this has been discussed many, many times.
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It looks like they are using they/them consistently now, at least as far as I can tell:
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Public records like court documents can't be used for claims about living persons. See
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Any thoughts? I can't see any reason to call the Kickstarter an unreliable source.
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independent, established sources reporting on it. This was perhaps the best source:
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In order for subjects to have an article on Knowledge, they have to fulfil certain
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WikiProject Electronic literature - Women electronic literature writers articles
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for her article. Good luck finding one, though, because it's not really due.--
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and do it if you think it's not controversial, and hopefully it will stick.
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https://www.wired.com/story/videogames-industry-metoo-moment-male-fragility/
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Hmm, meanwhile I've just gone and switched everything over to they/them at
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https://www.pcgamer.com/night-in-the-woods-developer-alec-holowka-has-died/
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https://kotaku.com/night-in-the-woods-designer-alec-holowka-dies-1837783073
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Knowledge:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive290#Alec Holowka
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param should be adjusted to point to something that records her choice.
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and the death, which is utterly unsupported by reliable sources.
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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or open the page, that I can put in the content myself. Thx
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trouble then it might make good sense not to say anything.
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After reading through these discussions again—here and at
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I say to wait until the Holowka issue is resolved at
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doesn't mention Quinn. I posted this elsewhere, but
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B-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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2100:talking about this.--
2039:notability guidelines
1942:, 3 August 2015, see
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1698:Electronic literature
1689:Electronic literature
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1558:Articles that need...
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294:Auto-archiving period
156:Neutral point of view
2696:above. Ideally, the
2268:Bahb the Illuminated
1825:purpose of Knowledge
1750:biographical article
1183:Shin Megami Tensei V
1047:No major discussions
753:the indie task force
161:No original research
56:request unprotection
2612:Use British English
2362:Thisisarealusername
2355:User:Semitonesabove
2058:Holowka allegations
1952:, 3 June 2014, see
1795:and edit carefully.
1791:Please consult the
714:video game articles
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1814:contentious topics
1783:contentious topics
1752:uses the pronouns
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