Knowledge

:Deletion review/Log/2009 April 29 - Knowledge

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nothing about local publications not being reliable sources of information. 24 Seven Cities magazine and Portfolio are both reliable 3rd party sources that should be used. Another source, The TCC Times is a college newspaper (which the notability standards do mention but say they should be looked at on a case by case basis) that I also believe should be used. These were all multiple page feature articles on the band. In fact the band was in the cover (as well as having a mulitple page article) of the 24 Seven Cities issue. Live-metal.net was a new reference added that is a reliable 3rd party publication. There is also a new reference added verifying the claim that the band was on 2009's MACRoCk conference.
398:(at this time) I am severely concerned with the number of SPAs and sockpuppets involved in arguing for and against the subject. The nominator's first edit, for instance, was to initiate this DRV because "Michelle Belanger must be undeleted." This approach implies a clear conflict of interest on the part of the account holder. I would not oppose the creation of a neutral, properly sourced article created by an indifferent party, but I fear that allowing re-creation at this time will produce either an advertisement for Belanger's work or a platform for sockpuppets to launch libelous allegations against her. The potential for BLP concerns overwhelms any necessity to maintain a borderline-notable article. ˉˉ 837:("Sound" excluded as they state "The content that we pull from the website can be anything–anything that we find meriting space in the print quarterly. So long as it’s relevant, we draw upon your comments and emails as much as our own bloggers’ posts and our writers’ features." and thus do not qualify as reliable), they do not include substantive coverage. Two- and three-paragraph album reviews, a couple of lines in a longer article suggesting the band as a thing-to-do and the like. 852:
specific writers and editors and is a printed and published magazine. What you are seeing on the website is the digital version of the printed magazine that was released earlier in the year. Moutheater recieved a 2 page article in an early issue and then a 6 page article as well as the cover in the issue that came out this past winter. The Sound magazine has nothing to do with the blogs and other community based stuff on their website.
620: 791:. The band does not appear to meet any of the twelve criteria there. I note that the article refers to three album releases, but Thrashed Records and Swim Harder Cassettes don't seem to be major labels (based on the fact that their websites are at Myspace). The references are almost all to blogs which don't qualify as 813:
I have just removed all blog reviews from the references. I also added a new 3rd party reference (popmatters.com). All of the listed references are reliable 3rd party publications. That is one of the criteria for being included in wikipedia. There are tons of bands listed on wikipedia that aren't
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preferably in userspace first. Fair disclosure: When I first saw the DRV nomination my first thought was "Is she a character in Twilight?" The individual does seem to have reliable sources such as those produced by Hobit above. But given the previous problems with this article and the apparent drama
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read ED/Michelle_Belanger. Ignoring the ED article for a second, I have to imagine this person is notable. Scary maybe, but notable. That said, given the problems that apparently plagued the last article and the AfD result, I'd strongly push for a userfied article first that needs to come to DrV
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This article was previously deleted and then recreated with some updates and new information/references. There are mulitple references which were unfairly said to not be reliable 3rd party sources in the initial discussion simply because they were local publications. The notability standards say
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I think you're missing something with the Sound articles. 24 Seven Cities is a giant community conglomerate and on their website they feature all kinds of the things that you mentioned. But they also have printed magazines under the company as well and Sound is one of those magazine. Sound has
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The deletion of this article makes no sense whatsoever. We can never accept this deletion. Michelle Belanger is the most famous vampire in the world and a huge author. She has books, she goes on tv, what else can you ask for? This article deserves to be on wikipedia, only makes wikipedia a better
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As the instructions on the deletion review page indicate, many issues can be resolved by asking the deleting/closing administrator for an explanation and/or to reconsider his/her decision. While not strictly mandatory, this should normally be done first. Did you try, and if not, was there some
920:(either is fine) Not really persuaded by the sourcing provided. Livemetal.net seems to have no editorial policy or fact-chcking policy listed so Im not clear that its a RS. (Note that i deleted the version in mainspace as not being allowed per DRV as the nominator claimed). 1123:"Better Days is a furry webcomic created by Jay Naylor and hosted on his website www.jaynaylor.com. The comic follows the lives of Lucy and Fisk Black, a pair of twin anthomorphic cats, from age 9 to their late 20's. The first comic was posted on April 18, 2003." 439:
I think userying to somewhere and requiring the article come to DrV before hitting mainspace is the way to address all these issues. I worry about creating a drama magnet of a BLP, but I think there is enough notability we really should have an article.
509:- The deletion made perfect sense. Per the AFD and based on our policies, the article should have been deleted. If userfied, it should be into the space of a neutral editor who will write an NPOV article, not into that of a SPA. 578:
I see no reason to reverse that decision. But like Jennavecia and others, I see no problem with an article being started from scratch. The two first links Hobit found are a good start, though I doubt they're sufficient.
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place for all of the VC. Michelle Belanger is the leader of the vampires in United States. She created our community and gave us hope. We can add many references to her great books. Just please bring her article back.
906:: Nothing of significance has changed since the AfD; more sources have been added yes, but they are of the same type as the ones deemed non-RS's during the AfD. Closing admin did not mis-interpret consensus. -- 764:
When the article was re-created it was put up for deletion which I contested. Then it was userfied and I was told that a deletion review was recommended before I move it back.
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Sorry I thought I was being told that the article was no longer allowed to be in the deletion review log due to the "list at AfD" comment. My mistake.
663:– Deletion endorsed - esssentially that it was the correct closure and there is insufficient that is new to require rerunning of the deletion debate – 295: 243:
as a proper AFD close. In light of the developments going on, I am now squarely against userfication. If someone wants to recreate it, it can be using
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the article can be rewritten in an encyclopedic manner. I don't know the deleted version, so I don't know what userfication will accomplish.
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on major labels. Being on a major can help you get onto wikipedia but not being on a major by no means excludes a band from wikipedia.
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Amvymra has went ahead and moved the page back into articlespace. I don't do DRV much, but shouldn't there be a consensus here first?
423:), and deleted the userfied page. No objection to another admin doing that - but it's best to let this DRV discussion play out first. 160: 1129:, and think about whether this comic has been republished in print media, for instance, or won a well-known and independent award. -- 39: 1190:
as not meeting our guidelines for inclusion. It hasn't been written about outside the fandom, hasn't received awards, etc. Sorry.
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Before recreating it, I suggest you come up with indication of why this is an important or significant webcomic. Have a read of
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No one expects articles to be perfect when they're first posted, but they do need to be good enough to avoid being deleted for
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Better Days (Webcomic) was deleted before it was finished under the claim that it did not provide all the needed information.
1108: 74:– deletion endorsed. slightly early be we have a conclusion and there has been lots of drama associated with this article – 454:
Again, I won't really object if another admin does that - but the prior version of the article wasn't in that great shape.
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a noninterested party at some point in the future could create a version in their userspace that is properly sourced,
219:. With that said and given the AFD discussion, along with the chief reason for deletion being because it was used for 285: 1164: 1126: 701: 1229: 1038: 1018: 978: 681: 638: 89: 17: 780: 697: 659: 1216: 1174: 1151: 1034: 999: 804: 384: 366: 546: 109: 1218: 1199: 1181: 1155: 1138: 1117:
The article was speedily deleted as it did "indicate why its subject is important or significant" (see
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and Chicago Tribune, books by a real (though specialized) publisher, apparently been on Hanity's show
1096: 955: 910: 883: 601: 518: 469: 468:) brings up a good point about it being a NPOV hotspot on both sides, as well as possible issues of 667: 596:- close was perfectly ok. Agree with comments by Anetode concerning the reasoning for an overturn. 930: 853: 815: 765: 532: 321: 170: 1212: 1195: 1169: 1104: 842: 248: 231: 787:. As such, I evaluated the new draft of the article and am analysing it against the criteria at 262:
associated with the subject matter it probably makes sense to make a draft in userspace first.
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We? I hope you are referring to the WP community, because the vampire community does not
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I note that the nominator has been blocked and cannot respond to this query. I would
339: 320:- I find it highly odd that the first and only action of this supposedly new account 216: 338:, and the website www.kheperu.org - so as such I have reported this user account to 187:
The AfD is clearly a delete. That said, I'm finding a news article mostly about her
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if the nominator is correct that this is the "most famous vampire in the world"
580: 380: 362: 288:. It can be worked on there until it has been been sourced appropriately, though 784: 441: 202: 557: 486: 425: 346: 303: 614: 619: 280:- I was the admin that closed the AFD. I have userfied the article 871:. This article now meets the core policies. Discussions about 833:- while several of the sources given for the article qualify as 379:
as no faults in the deletion process have been indicated.
484:, then it could be discussed again at DRV at that point. 1075: 1061: 1053: 1045: 738: 724: 716: 708: 553: 550: 342: 146: 132: 124: 116: 190:, news articles that quote her in the Washington Post 196:. The enc. dramatica article certainly makes an 1119:Knowledge:Criteria for speedy deletion#Articles 8: 1017:The following is an archived debate of the 680:The following is an archived debate of the 290:there does not seem to be much coverage in 88:The following is an archived debate of the 1146:, clear-cut A7 (non-notable web content). 992: 652: 63: 409:Actually on second thought, I agree with 318:Comment on account that started this DRV 779:I am taking this as a request to move 545:) has been blocked, essentially as a 7: 1232:of the page listed in the heading. 981:of the page listed in the heading. 641:of the page listed in the heading. 28: 947:My remarks aren't law. Yet.  :)— 618: 201:before being put in mainspace. 1228:The above is an archive of the 977:The above is an archive of the 637:The above is an archive of the 286:User:Kheperu/Michelle Belanger 1: 549:. See comment by one admin 1255: 1200:16:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 1182:22:01, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 1165:Knowledge:Notability (web) 1156:08:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 1139:04:45, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 1127:Knowledge:Notability (web) 1121:). The entire content was 824:13:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 809:08:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 774:13:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 567:15:19, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 524:13:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 496:12:49, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 450:12:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 435:12:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 403:09:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 371:08:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 356:07:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 313:07:00, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 272:03:10, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 247:and an encyclopedic tone. 245:reliable secondary sources 235:01:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 211:01:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC) 179:22:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 875:belong at AfD, not here.— 18:Knowledge:Deletion review 1235:Please do not modify it. 1024:Please do not modify it. 984:Please do not modify it. 687:Please do not modify it. 644:Please do not modify it. 95:Please do not modify it. 40:Deletion review archives 1219:16:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 1186:I enjoy the comic, but 1008:05:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 966:22:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 939:11:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 925:05:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 913:03:48, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 894:08:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 862:20:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 847:19:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 781:User:Amvymra/Moutheater 698:User:Amvymra/Moutheater 671:12:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 660:User:Amvymra/Moutheater 628:10:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 606:16:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 589:05:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 552:, and block by another 389:08:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 252:01:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 79:05:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1035:Better Days (Webcomic) 1021:of the article above. 1003:– deletion endorsed – 1000:Better Days (Webcomic) 684:of the article above. 92:of the article above. 470:conflict of interest 1242: 1241: 1198: 1113: 1099:comment added by 991: 990: 918:endorse or relist 651: 650: 336:Michelle Belanger 282:Michelle Belanger 106:Michelle Belanger 71:Michelle Belanger 1246: 1237: 1194: 1188:endorse deletion 1179: 1177: 1172: 1161:Endorse deletion 1144:Endorse deletion 1112: 1093: 1088: 1086: 1078: 1064: 1056: 1048: 1026: 993: 986: 963: 953: 891: 881: 793:reliable sources 755: 750: 741: 727: 719: 711: 689: 653: 646: 622: 572:Endorse deletion 521: 516: 507:Endorse deletion 396:Endorse deletion 377:endorse deletion 361:special reason? 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As such, 297:to satisfy 198:interesting 951:S Marshall 908:AbsolutDan 879:S Marshall 785:Moutheater 598:PhilKnight 480:satisfies 44:2009 April 1209:WP:CSD#A7 904:re-userfy 900:Re-delete 665:Peripitus 221:promotion 1192:Tony Fox 1109:contribs 1101:MaceEcam 1097:unsigned 839:Otto4711 835:reliable 611:Redirect 543:contribs 466:contribs 421:contribs 332:contribs 294:sources 249:MuZemike 232:MuZemike 228:provided 20:‎ | 1205:Comment 1176:LeCrois 1131:Stormie 1084:restore 1054:history 1005:Spartaz 931:Amvymra 922:Spartaz 873:WP:BAND 854:Amvymra 816:Amvymra 789:WP:BAND 766:Amvymra 753:restore 717:history 615:Dracula 594:Endorse 533:Kheperu 529:Update: 482:WP:NOTE 456:Anetode 411:Anetode 322:Kheperu 299:WP:NOTE 278:Comment 264:JoshuaZ 171:Kheperu 161:restore 125:history 76:Spartaz 1196:(arf!) 1163:- Per 1148:Stifle 801:Stifle 668:(Talk) 581:Drmies 381:Stifle 363:Stifle 340:WP:UAA 185:Userfy 1171:Diana 1076:watch 1069:links 739:watch 732:links 520:vecia 442:Hobit 292:WP:RS 239:Also 203:Hobit 147:watch 140:links 52:: --> 16:< 1211:. - 1152:talk 1135:talk 1105:talk 1062:logs 1046:edit 1039:talk 961:Cont 935:talk 889:Cont 858:talk 843:talk 820:talk 805:talk 770:talk 725:logs 709:edit 702:talk 602:talk 585:talk 563:talk 558:Cirt 537:talk 515:enna 492:talk 487:Cirt 460:talk 446:talk 431:talk 426:Cirt 415:talk 385:talk 367:talk 352:talk 347:Cirt 326:talk 309:talk 304:Cirt 268:talk 207:talk 175:talk 133:logs 117:edit 110:talk 32:< 1213:Mgm 1167:. 902:or 783:to 744:XfD 742:) ( 625:NE2 613:to 576:AfD 478:and 284:to 152:XfD 150:) ( 22:Log 1180:: 1154:) 1137:) 1111:) 1107:• 937:) 860:) 845:) 822:) 807:) 799:. 772:) 623:-- 604:) 587:) 565:) 555:. 494:) 474:If 472:. 448:) 433:) 400:╦╩ 387:) 369:) 354:) 344:. 311:) 301:. 270:) 209:) 177:) 42:: 1215:| 1150:( 1133:( 1103:( 1087:) 1081:( 1079:) 1072:| 1066:| 1058:| 1050:| 1042:| 1037:( 957:/ 933:( 885:/ 856:( 841:( 818:( 803:( 768:( 756:) 748:| 735:| 729:| 721:| 713:| 705:| 700:( 600:( 583:( 561:( 540:· 535:( 513:ل 490:( 463:· 458:( 444:( 429:( 418:· 413:( 383:( 365:( 350:( 329:· 324:( 307:( 266:( 205:( 173:( 164:) 156:| 143:| 137:| 129:| 121:| 113:| 108:(

Index

Knowledge:Deletion review
Log
2009 April 28
Deletion review archives
2009 April
2009 April 30
29 April 2009
Michelle Belanger
Spartaz
05:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
deletion review
Michelle Belanger
talk
edit
history
logs
links
watch
XfD
restore
Kheperu
talk
22:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)



Hobit
talk
01:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
own the article

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