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1256:. If you look at that, you will see that content about health should be sourced to reviews in the biomedical literature or statements by major medical/scientific bodies (like the NHS in the UK or the AMA or NIH here in the US). Case reports are primary sources and we generally avoid primary sources. If you are uncertain as to why we strive to keep health information well sourced, (and you are willing to take a few minutes), please see the essay:
617:
article, but not to something that is so utterly important, that should be gone over constantly to ensure the WIKI guidelines are followed and this UITTERLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION is not filled with bias. My point is, before you may decide to lift another finger in objection to the information on the POIS article, consider the real motivation and ensure that you are truly doing WIKI a service and not pushing forth a non-academic agenda.
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1295:. The problem is that this is a recently described rare disease. There are no reviews. There are no statements. Yet, it's a real disease. As the article says, "the frequency of POIS "in the population may be greater than has been reported in the academic literature", and that many POIS sufferers are undiagnosed."
1237:, you just removed a reference to a presentation at a medical conference. Why? How is it not encyclopedic? POIS is a newly described rare disease with no known treatment. I think a case report from a medical doctor that is presented at a medical conference and that describe possible treatments is encyclopedic. --
1340:
play in them; you can just do a word search on "source" and you will see that it all comes down to sources. One way that advocates ~tend~ to edit when the object of their passion is something not deeply studied, is they reach for any source that mentions the topic, and articles end up all bent and
833:
that "POIS could affect between 0.25% and 1% of the population" from 1992? Does that mean that this syndrome was apparent to researchers before then, but they had not properly described or named it? Or does it mean the source used to support that line is not about post orgasmic illness syndrome? Any
525:
Yes, it does matter if a summary of 300 cases is more accurate than a summary of 2-3 cases. It doesn't matter about the forum not meeting some standard. It is extremely relevant in this case, and it should be mentioned. Any discussion of POIS, should include that thread, since over 99% of reported
2044:
Correct me if im wrong, but stated literature only demonstrates a condition with physiological or cognitive (as a result of physiological) effects. Psychological components arent related to the specificity of this condition, according to literature. Not sure if this is what jytdog is talking about,
1323:
I am sympathetic to the lack of good sources. But one of the controls for content is exactly that - if there is a lack of sources, then there is a corresponding lack of content. Everything - literally everything, in the content of
Knowledge (XXG) is determined by what reliable sources say. This
751:
My POIS symptoms are severely debilitating mental & physical pain and have not responded to any change in diet. The only thing that stops the pain and exhaustion is abstaining from orgasm for a number of days. I want to reiterate the point that abstaining from orgasm always works to alleviate
1710:
There is no new thesis here. I am simply listing the countries in which POIS has been documented. Can I say that POIS has been documented in the UK? Yes, I have a source. Can I say that POIS has been documented in Egypt? Yes, I have a source. Can I can that POIS has been documented in the UK and
1168:
When I originally rewrote this article, it was easier for me to separate out the references into several groups -- peer-reviewed papers, secondary sources, and so on. However, no other article does this. I am therefore removing this separation, to make the reference organization like that of the
616:
It is a WIKI article about one of the most relevant topics in history, about something that involves the backbone of terrorism and the current wars waged upon this planet. This article is so full of "non-sourced opinions" that I'm completely astounded SO MUCH ATTENTION was paid to the POIS wiki
1861:
gives some examples of what is forbidden. "Personal essays that state your particular feelings about a topic (rather than the opinions of experts)." It also says that "Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be
1751:-- you cut the following with the comment: "we do not include this kind of speculation in WP". What rule does this break? If you don't like the word "speculate", this can be reworded. These are cited opinions of medical doctors who are studying this disease. I see no basis for cutting this.
1755:
Some doctors speculate that the frequency of POIS "in the population may be greater than has been reported in the academic literature", and that many POIS sufferers are undiagnosed. Though it's not described often in the academic literature, thousands of people have publicly claimed to have
492:
The summary of all known cases is simply a more accurate characterization of this condition. It is based on hundreds of cases, rather than only a few. These hundreds of cases could just as easily be published as the two in Dr. Waldinger's article. The article takes no position about the
2017:
POIS22, I also thank you for your help with this article. Although Jytdog can be strict with sourcing, he knows what he is talking about when it comes to good medical sources. It's better to listen to him (though you don't have to agree with him), and try to work with him.
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as it sounded like a related subject after I read this article, but I did not carry out any literature search to support this. That phrase would have been around long before 1992 I'm guessing... but it's probably safe to state it is not a medical term. My reading of
1957:
do. We are writing an encyclopedia article - we build on the syntheses that are already in the literature. It is not OK to create that yourself. It is not what we do. What you were doing by gathering those creates reports and assembling them here, was creating
611:
It dawned on me today all this discussion about POIS and what is allowed in the WIKI article is a PRIME EXAMPLE of a possible reason why POIS hasnt been properly researched: the taboo about sex?. What delivered this revelation to my brain today was this article
587:
tag may still be justifiable. There's the Dutch paper, a book that relies very heavily on the Dutch paper, and two "articles" that are little better than re-typed press releases about the Dutch paper's publication. The final source, a regular column in
661:
It has Marcel
Waldinger, professor of sexual psychopharmacology at Utrecht University in the Netherlands talking about evidence that it's caused by an allergic reaction to their own semen. I thought of you guys. Good luck with it all.
771:
I have POIS. Talked to nurse at U of
Washington speaking for Dr. Kreiger and they were finding Lyrica to be effective for prostitis III & IV which have baffled urologist. I spent years on Cipro unnecessarily until trying Lyrica!
1308:
for recently described rare diseases. I am not presenting anecdotal descriptions or media reports. I am citing peer-reviewed journal articles and conference presentations from many different doctors from around the world.
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You are going around and gathering case reports and building a story about epidemiology here in WP that apparently exists no where else. Knowledge (XXG) editors don't do that. That is not what WIkipedia is for.
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I think so. If very severe, then it sure can be some deficiency. I´ve found that some of the symptoms described, such as changes in mood, muscle discomfort and tiredness can be avoided with fairly low doses of
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we do not create new syntheses of information here in WP. If you were a doctor writing a review article to be published in the scientific literature, it would be fine to do what you are doing - that is what
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Nowhere that I can see is this made clear in the article. In fact, it's not made clear whether it has been observed in other mammals either. Particularly the gender issue needs to be established in the text.
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About this content. The way we are supposed to edit, is that you go find reliable sources for the topic, you read them, and you summarize them here. For anything about health, the criteria are in
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cases are found there. Any sensible POIS researcher consults that thread. Also, information from forums is OFTEN summarized on
Knowledge (XXG), if it's relevant. In this case, it is.
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NB: I just added a box to the very top of this page that automates a search for reviews in Pubmed, that is meant to help editors find sources that meet the criteria of MEDRS...
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you are doing, is the kind of thing that advocates do when they come to
Knowledge (XXG) and want to use WP to raise awareness. Please try to honor the mission. Thanks.
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but it smacks of someones opinion drawing non-literature cited conclusions. If thats being done, they would add "psychological" to everything from foot fungus to cancer.
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generally I think you have a very good article,and an interesting topic, however I'm certain following a few basics for GA you'll have an even better article, good luck--
544:. Knowledge (XXG)'s contents must meet Knowledge (XXG)'s standards. The forum does not meet Knowledge (XXG)'s standards for sourcing; it may not be used as a source
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Hi POIS22. Thanks for talking! This is an article about a health issue, and
Knowledge (XXG) has a guideline for sourcing content about health - it is here:
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credibility of the UK Naked
Science forum, but summarizes some of the information there, since it is critically relevant to any discussion of this condition.
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I personally don't care about status things like GA or FA. I just want to work on good content. My work will help you get there, but I have no such goals.
829:
If post orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) was first described in 2002, like the lead of this article currently states, then why is the source for it that is
451:
1608:
1702:? I don't think so. "SYNTH is when two or more reliably-sourced statements are combined to produce a new thesis that isn't verifiable from the sources."
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Do not use spaces in ref names or group names. Do not use quotes around ref names or group names. (Quotes would only be required if you used spaces.)
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592:, doesn't use this name for the condition, and speculates on a different mechanism, with the result that it may prove to be a different condition.
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From the moment you saw my username, you decided that I have some sort of a hidden agenda. I do not. I only have one agenda -- to make this into a
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a picture (that apparently exists no where else) of all the places where POIS has been document. You can't do that here. It is not OK.
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POIS, thanks for asking. The mission of
Knowledge (XXG) is to present the public with "accepted knowledge". This is described in
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Would you like to make this into a GA too? How do your edits, and you deciding that I am a bad actor, help turn this into a GA?
1836:. We discussed the dangers of advocacy in WP; your efforts to provide every scrap of stuff out there about this condition, the
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and myself, I didn't see too many good sources for this topic, which is most likely due to the fact that it's a rare condition.
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For the record, below are all of the references from a previous version of the article -- some of these have been deleted by
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548:. If you want to use the forum as a source, then you'll need to get your own website, where you get to set the standards.
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I have cited in this article over 10 references in the academic literature that. There has to be some flexibility in
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to build up health-related content from primary sources. That is what you are doing. And as I wrote above,
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You have decided that me saying that the disease has been documented in both the UK and Egypt is somehow
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Egypt? That is all I am saying -- it has been documented in the UK and Egypt. There is no other thesis.
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There are a few girls (like 3 or 4) at the naked science forum, but the vast majority seem to be male.-
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I also noticed that there are now new references references available that should be acceptable under
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1096:. Place the content of the ref inside the appropriate {{reflist}} tag at the bottom of the article.
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1944:. Per MEDRS we rely on reviews and statements by major scientific and medical authorities. It is
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is that it does not describe any medical condition, but is entirely normal. Feel free to remove.
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included, though editors should be aware of creating undue bias to any specific point-of-view."
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Waldinger2016 lists seven clusters of symptoms. Someone should add this list to the article.
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You do not write in the talk page before cutting. You just cut. That's against WP etiquette.
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includes whether an article exists at all. For whether an article exists, please see the
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POIS may be connected with undertreated
Chronic Pelvic Pain and prostatitis III & IV
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3355930/Mystery-illness-is-orgasm-allergy.html
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In the text, only use ref's without content, such as <ref name=Waldinger2002 /: -->
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For ref names, use the NameYear format, such as <ref name=Waldinger2002 /: -->
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A primary source from 1992 which is not about the subject in question. Deleted.
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https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/10809/postorgasmic-illness-syndrome
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not following NPOV anymore. Please do mindful of that temptation. Thanks.
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please make this article redirect from post-coital/orgasmic depression too
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Postorgasmic%20Illness%20Syndrome
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Please follow these practices to make references cleaner and clearer.
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of copper, aluminium, mercury, lead, flour, silicone or other substance
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Meybe the symptoms are natures way to limit overgrowth of population.
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s: secondary sources, such as books, references, on-line encyclopedias
1988:
Thanks for helping out with this article, Jytdog. At the time of the
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1990:#Year that post orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) was first described
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets
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Use these ref groups. For example, <ref name=GARD group=s /: -->
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Year that post orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) was first described
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Here is the funny thing. The updated GARD, which is allowed under
2076:, what particular quote from the article are you talking about? --
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for
Knowledge (XXG)'s health content are defined in the guideline
477:, so I have removed all material that was sourced to this forum.
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414:. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at
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Manifestation of an auto-immune reaction to the man's own semen
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in a nutshell, and for content within an article, please see
406:, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the
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named "Waldinger2011b" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Waldinger2011a" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Goldstein2011" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Waldinger2016" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Waldinger2002" is not used in the content (see the
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Stay civil (no profanity) when posting here. This page is
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named "Friedman2009" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Reuters2002" is not used in the content (see the
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named "McMahon2014" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Berger2002" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Farley2011" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Dexter2010" is not used in the content (see the
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Knowledge (XXG):Identifying reliable sources (medicine)
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named "Burri2011" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Wylie2015" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Balon2005" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Jiang2015" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Attia2013" is not used in the content (see the
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named "Ashby2010" is not used in the content (see the
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males with POIS. POIS has also been documented in the
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The following is OR. Please do not do this. Thanks.
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named "Shah2001" is not used in the content (see the
1527:"Postorgasmic illness syndrome: semen allergy in men"
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named "TLC2011" is not used in the content (see the
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Can you be more specific? How specifically is it OR?
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clinical publications about evidence-based medicine
2380:named "orpha" is not used in the content (see the
2363:named "GARD" is not used in the content (see the
1940:; for content not about health, the criteria are
1884:. I disagree. I present no new thesis, it is not
1871:I am giving opinions of experts. You delete them.
1103:(none): peer-reviewed papers, such as from PubMed
118:for general discussion of the article's subject.
410:and that biomedical information in any article
1525:Puerta Suárez J, Cardona Maya W. (Oct 2013).
1369:that was just published earlier this year. --
408:Manual of Style for medicine-related articles
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8:
2517:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31171851
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614:http://en.wikipedia.org/Religious_fanaticism
507:It doesn't matter. The forum does not meet
995:Allergic reaction to sperm or seminal fluid
846:hours before Doc James edited the article.
1336:, and please read them with the role that
881:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
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777:http://www.prostatitis.org/uwashpage.html
417:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Medicine
1609:"9 Ways Orgasms May Benefit Your Health"
1031:Psychosomatic reaction linked to trauma/
727:taken before... whatever. Really works.
655:Article in a UK tabloid about all this:
57:review articles from the past five years
1804:was invoked but never defined (see the
1782:was invoked but never defined (see the
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1664:was invoked but never defined (see the
1591:was invoked but never defined (see the
1569:was invoked but never defined (see the
1509:was invoked but never defined (see the
1487:was invoked but never defined (see the
1465:was invoked but never defined (see the
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831:currently used to support the statement
752:symptoms for anyone with this disease.-
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1144:User:PleaseStand/References segregator
2511:There's a new study from June 2019.
2111:. Yey! I will go through them soon.
1169:other articles on Knowledge (XXG). --
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7:
1124:and place a check next to ProveIt.
1109:m: media, such as newspaper articles
426:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Medicine
400:This article is within the scope of
85:Centre for Reviews and Dissemination
2521:Full paper (through readcube.com):
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1704:Knowledge (XXG):What SYNTH is not
607:Be careful of unnecesary scrutiny
135:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
82:Other potential sources include:
2557:Low-importance medicine articles
1634:"Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome"
1230:Deletion of a recent case report
718:Many of the symptoms are normal?
412:use high-quality medical sources
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130:Click here to start a new topic.
19:
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446:This article has been rated as
303:This article was nominated for
2562:All WikiProject Medicine pages
1075:A microadenoma to the epididym
1001:to neurotransmitter or similar
307:on 10 May 2009. The result of
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1185:for improvement to GA article
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883:17:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
856:17:19, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
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429:Template:WikiProject Medicine
127:Put new text under old text.
110:Postorgasmic illness syndrome
45:Postorgasmic illness syndrome
43:sources of information about
2040:Why was psychological added?
1992:discussion above, involving
1384:TODO: 7 clusters of symptoms
1291:I agree with and appreciate
1163:The above is now deprecated.
1067:Vegetative-vascular dystonia
1038:Virus, bacteria or parasite
1004:Ejaculatory duct obstruction
678:01:55, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
1543:10.1016/j.acuro.2013.03.002
1225:10:34, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
1118:http://proveit.wmflabs.org/
1112:w: websites, such as forums
905:Added the see also link to
509:Knowledge (XXG)'s standards
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2502:21:31, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
975:/myalgic encephalomyelitis
942:Not sure what this means?
794:21:32, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
452:project's importance scale
2552:B-Class medicine articles
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2066:00:11, 7 July 2016‎ (UTC)
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1158:17:06, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
968:List of possible factors
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820:22:52, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
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713:22:51, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
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684:Male? Female? Both sexes?
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165:Be welcoming to newcomers
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973:Chronic fatigue syndrome
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627:18:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
602:17:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
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536:15:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
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1698:Do you mean that it is
1412:One study describes 45
1365:I will be adding a new
842:? I see that you added
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2092:References old and new
540:No, it doesn't matter
333:This article is rated
160:avoid personal attacks
2523:https://rdcu.be/bFIqy
1078:Histamine intolerance
1022:or vitamin deficiency
1007:Sudden and prolonged
337:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
208:Find medical sources:
185:Neutral point of view
1800:The named reference
1778:The named reference
1660:The named reference
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1565:The named reference
1505:The named reference
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1361:New secondary source
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190:No original research
63:free review articles
39:. Here are links to
1201:, (it might need a
1193:remember to follow
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989:cycle abnormalities
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999:Allergic reaction
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2054:Cleverwisdom
2048:— Preceding
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2098:User:Jytdog
1802:McMahon2014
1749:User:Jytdog
1638:The Doctors
1589:McMahon2014
1235:User:Jytdog
1217:Ozzie10aaaa
1082:Prostatitis
987:Methylation
979:Vagus nerve
814:Jasper Deng
780:—Preceding
732:—Preceding
664:—Preceding
633:—Preceding
479:Tim Vickers
116:not a forum
2546:Categories
2515:Abstract:
1950:in general
1761:References
1607:Kubota T.
1507:Dexter2010
1447:References
1199:references
1134:Also see:
1088:References
1062:Depression
938:Moved here
573:One source
60:(limit to
2507:New study
2485:help page
2467:help page
2450:help page
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1998:Doc James
1806:help page
1784:help page
1780:Ashby2010
1666:help page
1662:Jiang2015
1593:help page
1571:help page
1567:Attia2013
1511:help page
1489:help page
1485:Ashby2010
1467:help page
1430:Australia
1328:which is
1040:infection
1026:Poisoning
946:Doc James
865:Doc James
582:onesource
173:if needed
156:Be polite
106:talk page
73:provides
54:provides
2128:WP:MEDRS
2109:WP:MEDRS
2102:WP:MEDRS
2062:contribs
2050:unsigned
1938:WP:MEDRS
1643:4 August
1618:4 August
1550:23684345
1422:Colombia
1306:WP:MEDRS
1293:WP:MEDRS
1254:WP:MEDRS
1205:section)
1055:Lack of
1011:reuptake
1009:dopamine
982:dystonia
956:contribs
875:contribs
782:unsigned
734:unsigned
666:unsigned
635:unsigned
423:Medicine
364:Medicine
305:deletion
263:Springer
228:Cochrane
141:get help
114:This is
112:article.
2100:due to
1955:reviews
1908:WP:GOOD
1338:sources
1334:WP:NPOV
889:Flyer22
848:Flyer22
804:a forum
450:on the
335:B-class
2530:POIS22
2494:POIS22
2078:POIS22
1994:Lesion
1964:Jytdog
1946:not OK
1921:POIS22
1886:WP:SYN
1882:WP:SYN
1859:WP:NOT
1842:Jytdog
1838:WP:SYN
1834:WP:NOT
1819:POIS22
1728:Jytdog
1713:POIS22
1680:Jytdog
1432:, the
1390:POIS22
1371:POIS22
1343:Jytdog
1311:POIS22
1275:Jytdog
1261:Jytdog
1239:POIS22
1203:causes
1171:POIS22
1150:POIS22
918:Lesion
840:Lesion
836:Jmh649
817:(talk)
691:Nigelj
341:scale.
251:OpenMD
221:PubMed
52:PubMed
1942:WP:RS
1756:POIS.
1441:China
1426:Egypt
1414:Dutch
1404:WP:OR
960:email
879:email
834:idea
277:Wiley
169:Seek
2534:talk
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2082:talk
2058:talk
2024:talk
1968:talk
1960:here
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1717:talk
1684:talk
1645:2015
1620:2015
1547:PMID
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1120:Or,
1071:POTS
1033:PTSD
952:talk
926:talk
893:talk
871:talk
852:talk
844:this
790:talk
775:See
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725:zinc
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598:talk
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517:talk
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483:talk
313:keep
311:was
270:Trip
244:Gale
236:DOAJ
158:and
88:and
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1539:doi
802:NOT
511:.
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