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1699:. "The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim." In the absence of any independent RS that contradict their statement, it's good enough. Your opinion about the legitimacy or appropriateness of their claim is just your opinion and has no weight up against them, a very RS. The WHO recognizes World Physiotherapy as the only world body representing the profession and doesn't mention any other. Please stop this OR crusade. --
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1606:, you never answered my question above. What source do you have for not considering World Physiotherapy as the sole world body for the profession? In chiropractic, there are several international bodies because of their internal divisions and differing chiro-religious beliefs, but in PT there is only one international organization for all PTs. What source makes you doubt this? Can you name a competitor to WP? --
1438:, I can't change the decision above, but we can continue the discussion here. The common usage in the United States is indeed "Physical Therapy". Nearly all other English language nations use "Physiotherapy", and most other languages that approximate these words adapt Physiotherapy to their own languages. Examples are found in Europe. The Scandinavian languages use "Fysioterapi". "Fisioterapia" is Spanish.
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1246:. "Physical therapy" is clearly preferred in the USA, but "physiotherapy" is understood. However, "physiotherapy" (or "physio") is used pretty much exclusively in the UK and most people probably wouldn't know what "physical therapy" even was (although they could probably work it out from the context). "Physiotherapy" also appears to be preferred in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, etc. Per
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1535:, I noticed your edits and wonder what source you have to not consider the WCPT/World Physiotheray as THE world body for the profession? I'm an old PT and have never heard of any other international organization for all PTs. That doesn't preclude the possibility of some rogue group trying to claim they represent all PTs in the world, but I have never heard of such a group. Have you? --
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1823:"A survey took place after the GM in 2019 and 78 member organisation took part. 60% agreed World Physiotherapy would be more easily understood by government and educational organisations which will aim to raise the profile of the profession in new and exciting areas. Almost 60% agreed the new title more accurately reflects the activities of the profession on a global scale."
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I don't see a reason you consider this "allied health profession" categorization to be important. Many articles about other professions that appear to be in the category (or excluded from the category) do not mention the category at all. The meaning of the term and the implications of using the term
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This is in harmony with the practices of other nations, where all lists of AHP include
Physiotherapy. If some nation specifically excludes Physiotherapy from their list, that can be mentioned under that nation's entry, but that does not change the general fact for this article. The classification of
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Out of the 121 member organizations, one nation uses
Physical Therapy exclusively, and nearly all others use Physiotherapy, although a few of them translate their name to English using Physical Therapy, regardless of what their language says. In spite of all that, you want to give Americans the most
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are intended to prevent dominance by a single variety of
English. You probably won't be able to convince people that those should only apply when the variety of English is not American (but feel free to try, although I suggest to do that on the talk pages of the policies & guidelines, not here).
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If people have a misconception about what an "allied health profession" is, then perhaps that misconception should be addressed in the article about "allied health professions" (AHPs), but I still see no reason to discuss whether physical therapy is an AHP or not within this article. The purpose of
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Quite a few
Indians and people from Pakistan and Arabic countries care. For years they have vandalized this article. I suspect part of the problem is language. They think that if a profession, in this case PT, is classified as an AHP, then it is not an independent profession. That's BS. In the case
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article seems to have rather low quality, as it lacks clarity about this, and the sources on the subject don't seem very good. What is the point of saying that some professions are "allied health professions" and some are not? For example, why say that nursing and pharmacy and chiropractic care and
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So an article about
American PTs would use the American terminology, which is Physical Therapy. By contrast, a general article about the TOPIC, like this one, would favor the most common international spelling in English, and regardless of what that is, the section about the United States would use
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does not justify making such a claim in
Knowledge's own voice. Apparently, WHO signed an MOU with World Physiotherapy to encourage collaboration and cooperate on mutual goals, but that does not mean WHO declared them to be the special and unique global voice of the profession. The citation you want
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at play in searches!), we need to ask ourselves whether we want to document reality ("The majority of our member organisations use physiotherapy and physiotherapist to describe the profession") or just use of the word in
English? English is not the sum total of reality. America's dominance in this
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The topic does not have strong national ties to any particular countries. So it is reasonable for the article to be written in any variety of
English. Knowledge policies in such a case do not say to pick the most popular variety of English. They just say to retain whatever variety is used in the
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This has to do with our job here, which is to document the "sum of all human knowledge" (translated to
English) about the PT profession that is written about in RS, and the fact that PT is classified as AHP is part of it. That's all. We don't write summaries here. We cover nearly everything. --
1334:
My mistake. I was under the impression that the above suggested the
American profession preferred the term as well. However, my comment about a fundamental misunderstanding in comments above that physical therapy is the common name and physiotherapy only the "official" name stands; this is not
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I disagree. I see no reason to mention this AHP concept at all, since it seems to have no clear meaning or implications, especially for most readers. If it has a meaning, the meaning seems to have something to do with the laws or healthcare systems of specific countries, so it should only be
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have "strong ties" to the United States. Physical therapy has roots back to the Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians, and in modern times formal educations were established in many countries. The roots of my school in Scandinavia started in the 1890s, with those educated there becoming the first
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As far as I'm concerned, no one has the right to claim they are the only group in the world who can speak for everyone in the world in any particular profession, and such a statement should definitely not be based on a self-published claim with no independent reliable sourcing. Of course,
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Physical Therapy is an Americanism, and Americans tend to dominate everything. Yet the profession has chosen to not allow that domination and has changed the official name of the international body representing the whole profession. There Physiotherapy and Physiotherapist dominates. --
1963:. There the title and language are all American English, which is proper. This article is different. Here the most common term (when translated to English) used by most Physiotherapists and their national organizations should get the most weight, and they outweigh Americans 5 to 1:
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the American spelling, while other national sections would use the spelling favored in that nation, and that is nearly always some variation of Physiotherapy, a situation now recognized by the changing of the official title of the only international body representing all PTs, and
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this article is to provide information about physical therapy, not about AHPs. I don't see why the concept of an AHP is important to providing information about physical therapy (although moving that discussion from the lead section into the article body is an improvement). ββ ββ
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Well, you are the first one to propose such a thing. Maybe we could eliminate the mention in the lead and only mention it in the body. In fact, there is no mention in the body!!! That makes the mention in the lead illegitimate. I'll move it to the body right now. --
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BarrelProof is right about this. In the absence of very strong national ties (like the Secretary of Defense example) we just leave the article title at whatever the first user happened to pick. The Americans get Physical therapy, and the rest of the world gets
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And that is irrelevant to this discussion, as I have pointed out below. The assumption that "physical therapy" is the common name and "pysiotherapy" the official one is a purely American assumption and is not the case from a worldwide perspective. --
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updated the ref, and included the Internet Archive version for today, with quotes. Now it is sourced content. I am not writing "sole", just writing "the". That's good enough, and the "sole" is in the ref for anyone to read. --
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What's happened above is contrary to our efforts to get away from American dominance. The English language Knowledge is not the American Knowledge, but American dominance over search terms is obvious. We are supposed to reduce
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As far as I can tell, "physical therapy" is also very dominant as the official name, as well as being very dominant as the common name, in the United States. For example, the primary professional association is the
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You nailed it, even if you didn't mean to. The Americans (as in APTA) get Physical Therapy, and the rest of the world gets Physiotherapy. This article is not about American PT. It's about the whole world's PT. --
1388:. I searched the names of the accredited programs and degrees in several populous U.S. states (including California, New York, Texas and a couple others) and didn't find any that use the word "Physiotherapy". ββ ββ
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area is apparent, as other English-speaking countries use Physiotherapy, and there are far more of them than there are Americans. This is an example where we need to assign proper due weight by reducing
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987:. To answer the final question, usage in English is the only concern for article titling on the English Knowledge; whether the topic is a single word in foreign languages is not relevant (
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is basically not used in the United States and is unfamiliar to the majority of people there. As noted by Dekimasu, people in the United States don't search for information about
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1929:, right? Personally, I don't notice much of a difference between Knowledge's policies and guidelines about titles and article body content, but if you do, then we can focus on
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1848:(mostly Americans): "There are 578,565 people employed in the physical therapy industry in the US as of 2022. Globally, there are 1,600,606 registered physical therapists."
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Source citations are needed to support assertions of fact. No source is needed if no claim is made. I did not add any new claim to the article; I merely removed one. ββ ββ
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I understand you, and even though we don't agree on this point, I respect your opinion and bow to consensus. As you may have noted, I have not edit-warred. Carry on. --
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Bingo! You have described the problem exactly. The problem is Americans and their search patterns. This is the article for the general topic, not the article for the
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therefore, "physiotherapy" should be preferred. Much has been made above of "physical therapy" being common usage, whereas "physiotherapy" is official usage, with
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here, as 98% of searches are for physical therapy in the United States. This points to a case in which we would normally retain the existing variety under
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As far as I know, it would be rather rare to find that. Do you have evidence otherwise? The term "physical therapy" is clearly dominant in the U.S. ββ ββ
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says, as explained above. It contradicts what these vandals are always trying to do here. This section should be referred to when they try this. --
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organizations love to say they are the one true voice and speak for everyone, but they have a promotional self-interest in making such claims. ββ ββ
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is recognized by the WHO as that organization. For some reason, likely convenience and legal, they choose to use the WCPT name for legal affairs.
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The professions of Chiropractic and Osteopathy are TOPICS that are strongly tied to the United States. Physiotherapy does not have such ties.
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physiotherapists in the country. The official title came later. I graduated as a Fysioterapeut (Physiotherapist), not a Physical Therapist.
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is an important compromise with strong Knowledge-wide consensus, it heads off a lot of tiresome arguments, as it should on this article.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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If American physiotherapists actually call themselves physiotherapists, I'm not sure it can really be classed as "extremely rare"! --
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discussed in the context of a discussion of those countries, not in the lead section and especially not in the opening sentence. ββ ββ
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to a particular English-speaking nation, the title of its article should use that nation's variety of English (for example, compare
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It is the same PT everywhere, but Knowledge happens to use the American spelling. Just as the whole world's chips can be found at
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979:. Further, we do privilege common usage over official titles or "the profession's choice" (which is actually divided here) under
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material. You want us to reach conclusions about the importance of that MOU and what it means, but have provided no independent
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have "strong ties" to the United States. It's an international profession/topic. The TITLE Physical Therapy/Physical therapist
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distinguishes between titles and topics. It makes a difference between local/national titles and general/international titles:
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While a search for the two terms in English will show that "Physical Therapy" is used more in English than "Physiotherapy" (
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organization that functions as an umbrella organization for those bodies. World Physiotherapy is recognized by the WHO. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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roughly twice as many who use some variation of the Physiotherapist title as those who use the Physical therapist title
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A claim of being "the sole international voice for physiotherapy" is obviously unduly self-serving and exceptional, so
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1933:. It is about titles, and it says that all national varieties of English are acceptable in article titles. The term
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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that overall, physical therapy is the dominant term, "from a worldwide perspective". Argue under your own !vote.
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I am a retired PT, and under my previous username of Fyslee, I supported keeping "Physical Therapy" as the title.
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being implied. However, this only appears to be the case in the USA. Elsewhere, "physiotherapy" is both official
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Like it or not, that is the way all international organizations function, and in healthcare, the WHO is the
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is already tagged (not by me) for needing additional sourcing and being written like an advertisement. ββ ββ
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clinical psychology are not AHPs but physical therapy is? What difference does it make? Who cares? ββ ββ
1288:. "Physiotherapy" seems extremely rare in U.S. English, so there doesn't seem to be an opportunity for
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weight? That's a very heavy dose of Americentrism, even though this is not the American Knowledge. --
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Because Indian editors often come here and try to change this content, this has to be said clearly:
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Not so. Knowledge is not an indiscriminate collection of all information. It avoids inclusion of
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Those are good enough reasons for me to support a move from Physical Therapy to Physiotherapy.
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2011:. Counting population like this is exactly the kind of thing the policy was written to avoid.
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We're talking about the title, not the language variant used in the body of the article. --
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We need to treat the TOPIC in its international sense. PT is not an American profession. --
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Not so. Sources should be independent, not self-published and promotional. Please note that
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sources. My removal of such stuff is not OR. The OR is its addition, not its removal. ββ ββ
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and physiotherapist to describe the profession and the people who work in the profession."
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Many languages use various forms of Physiotherapy that do not show in an English search.
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is Spanish. Many languages do this, and none of them will show up in an English search.
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Okay, so you didn't read the source, assumed you were reading unsourced content, and
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It doesn't show anything of the sort. And I can post a comment wherever I choose. --
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In the United States, as of 2019, there were 312,716 licensed physical therapists.
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because of confusion over terminology and the number of people using the terms.
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probably depend heavily on the country in which the term is being applied. The
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policy is pretty clear that common usage is prioritized over scientific names.
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Regardless of which is more common outside of the Untied States, we have
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I have changed my mind. The profession's choice should be respected.
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includes the Physiotherapy profession in their official list of
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Knowledge level-4 vital articles in Biology and health sciences
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India classifies Physiotherapy as an allied health profession
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Globally, there are 1,600,606 registered physical therapists.
1479:. Unfortunately, above Americentrism has been reinforced. --
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have "strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation".
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for Knowledge's health content are defined in the guideline
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the title should reflect "the profession on a global scale"
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The majority of our member organisations use physiotherapy
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On 29 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions
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National Commission for Allied and Healthcare Professions
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to add about that MOU is also self-published promotional
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Commission on Accreditation in Physical Therapy Education
832:(note it is now a redirect) has even changed its name to
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Knowledge vital articles in Biology and health sciences
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Physiotherapy as an AHP should not be removed here. --
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Support "Physical Therapy" as the title of the article.
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There are two name change discussions in the archives:
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C-Class vital articles in Biology and health sciences
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of India, they seem to be ignorant of what their own
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article. In this case, that is American English. ββ ββ
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Journal of Orthopaedic & Sports Physical Therapy
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New brand and website for global physiotherapy body
839:Here are some links that discuss the title change:
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clinical publications about evidence-based medicine
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348:Manual of Style for medicine-related articles
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1810:The TOPIC of Physical Therapy/Physiotherapy
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1373:Journal of Neurologic Physical Therapy
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1961:American Physical Therapy Association
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683:Centre for Reviews and Dissemination
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340:This article is within the scope of
2395:C-Class Health and fitness articles
1209:per Dekimasu (following the herd).
357:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Medicine
270:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
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14:
2375:Low-importance neurology articles
680:Other potential sources include:
2365:Mid-importance medicine articles
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1648:. I have read the source and in
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50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
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1925:So we're talking about
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1422:Further discussion of
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100:Neutral point of view
1646:removed that wording
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637:. Here are links to
343:WikiProject Medicine
105:No original research
1856:World Physiotherapy
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19:This is the
2295:BarrelProof
2252:BarrelProof
2212:BarrelProof
2168:BarrelProof
1947:BarrelProof
1931:WP:TITLEVAR
1927:WP:TITLEVAR
1889:BarrelProof
1790:Australian
1774:WP:TITLEVAR
1742:BarrelProof
1738:WP:TERTIARY
1683:BarrelProof
1632:BarrelProof
1604:BarrelProof
1562:BarrelProof
1533:BarrelProof
1519:BarrelProof
1506:WP:TITLEVAR
1432:BarrelProof
1390:BarrelProof
1322:BarrelProof
1294:BarrelProof
1177:Ozzie10aaaa
1160:BarrelProof
1140:β robertsky
1120:β robertsky
1100:β robertsky
985:WP:OFFICIAL
944:β robertsky
911:Fysioterapi
781:move review
31:not a forum
2324:Categories
1844:There are
1730:WP:PRIMARY
1514:MOS:RETAIN
1510:MOS:ENGVAR
1436:Necrothesp
1337:Necrothesp
1308:Necrothesp
1264:Necrothesp
1211:Randy Kryn
1068:Necrothesp
1036:Necrothesp
958:Discussion
940:Relisting.
790:not moved.
717:References
658:(limit to
587:Disability
582:discussion
550:Disability
2056:WP:ENGVAR
2009:Aluminium
1650:this edit
1286:WP:RETAIN
1282:WP:ENGVAR
1054:RudolfoMD
1021:RudolfoMD
1005:Oppose.
977:WP:RETAIN
973:WP:ENGVAR
753:not moved
723:sections.
671:provides
652:provides
296:Neurology
260:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2291:WP:UNDUE
2121:India's
1812:does not
1576:de facto
1194:Bensci54
1008:Dekimasu
993:Dekimasu
363:Medicine
291:Medicine
209:Archives
178:Springer
143:Cochrane
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2278:PING me
2267:Valjean
2238:PING me
2227:Valjean
2198:PING me
2187:Valjean
2148:PING me
2137:Valjean
2085:PING me
2074:Valjean
2060:MrOllie
2039:PING me
2028:Valjean
2013:MrOllie
1995:PING me
1984:Valjean
1914:PING me
1903:Valjean
1874:PING me
1863:Valjean
1800:Defense
1792:Defence
1712:PING me
1701:Valjean
1666:PING me
1655:Valjean
1619:PING me
1608:Valjean
1591:PING me
1580:Valjean
1548:PING me
1537:Valjean
1492:PING me
1481:Valjean
1463:PING me
1452:Valjean
1426:in name
1244:Support
1231:α΄’xα΄α΄ ΚΙ΄α΄
930:PING me
919:Valjean
525:on the
390:on the
262:C-class
2129:(AHP).
1945:. ββ ββ
1292:. ββ ββ
1224:Oppose
1207:Oppose
1190:oppose
1173:oppose
1156:Oppose
1134:Note:
1114:Note:
1094:Note:
1019:.Β :-)
828:. The
650:PubMed
485:health
268:scale.
166:OpenMD
136:PubMed
1796:with
1794:Force
1050:shows
989:WP:EN
965:shows
803:Hilst
741:moved
249:This
192:Wiley
84:Seek
2299:talk
2271:talk
2256:talk
2231:talk
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