1201:. No editor, except Cavalryman and JLAN, are convinced that the merger is warranted, or that there is a NPOV issue with those 2 articles. What we're seeing is DONTLIKEIT, OR and CIR. All the RS involved, including the actual breed registry that recognized the Staffordshire Bull Terrier as a purebred in 1935 and approved the name (after rejecting "original" from the first submission for the name), the misinformation and POV pushing we've had to deal with goes beyond the pale. My goal as an editor who has helped promote/review 8 FAs and 19 GAs, my priority is to get the article right - I would not deny valid material or any material that would improve the article. I know better than to state unverifiable opinion in WikiVoice which is what Cavalryman is proposing, and JLAN supports. Any editor who has taken the time to read both Bull and terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and at least scanned the other articles with common ancestry, will see that all substantial views have been included under History, Early history, and Theories of origin. The Hinks dog was the first Bull Terrier that was recognized by The Kennel Club as a purebred in the 1800s, and yes, a group of breeders later split-off to refine their own strain of Bull Terrier, but common knowledge tells us that the modern dogs of today are
368:... the owners of bulldogs turned to dog fighting, but here they found that their heavily-built bulldogs were too slow and cumbersome in the dog-pits. So they crossed them to courageous and lively terriers, probably black and tans, and the bull-and-terrier had arrived as a definite breed. ... The original bull-and-terrier fighting dogs remained unrecognised until 1935, when they were finally registered as the Staffordshire bull terriers.
1019:, my reason for starting this review was not the dispute (which I've been watching for some time), but the state of the article itself. I haven't recently even tried to read past the lead, but that is already far from encyclopaedic – it's highly polemical, and has large amounts of material that should not be there. Problems such as the plural pronoun for a singular antecedent in the second sentence are relatively easily fixed.
1532:
1860–1870 and before that, when there were no pedigreed dogs or verifiable purebreds. Everything in the article is important encyclopedic information. It explains why the modern Bull
Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier are considered 2 different purebreds today, and why the other purebreds that share common ancestry are separate breeds despite sharing the same ancestry. You will see that more clearly after you read,
1176:. After months of discussion, no consensus has been reached to either include the material presented by Cavalryman, or to merge Bull and terrier. The article has had no issues beyond the ones Cavalryman relentlessly brings forward as a result of OR and what appears to be an inability to distinguish figurative language and opinion from statements of fact - we do not use Wikivoice to state fringe opinions as fact -
1437:, since I wrote that I have actually done some reading and research into this topic, so while I'm still happy to acknowledge my extensive ignorance of it, I'm not quite as ignorant as I was; and after writing or re-writing literally hundreds of domestic animal breed articles, I believe I do actually have some limited understanding of what constitutes a breed. The topic of the article is absolutely
1316:- "Furthermore, what was perceived as a Staffordshire bull terrier in the United Kingdom tended to be classified as a pit bull in the United States. Although what is deemed a pit bull is clearly of greater importance within a specific country or within a locale subject to BSL than it is between countries, it does bring into question the validity of determining breed identity based on appearance."
1284:
Not yet a breed in their own right, it was this cross between the
Bulldog and the terrier that resulted in the early forbears of the Amstaff, known at the time as the bull-and-terrier. This bull-and-terrier would eventually evolve into a number of our modern breeds, the American Staffordshire Terrier, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the Bull Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier."
1634:, which I initially found in another WP article but can't recall the details. I cited only the cited source of the quote, and used my own editorial judgement and paraphrased. I didn't think it was necessary to cite the article for Fleig's quote. Are you alleging that the article incorrectly quoted/cited Fleig? If what you say is true, the university should probably be advised.
1277:
terrier cross remained loyal to their preferred type. Because of its early association with fighting it was, for some time, difficult to get recognition for the breed and it was not until the 1930s that The Kennel Club recognised the breed. It carried the name
Staffordshire as the breed was developed in the “black country” of Staffordshire and northern parts of Birmingham.
1523:. Maybe if you liken it to etymology, it would help. Nothing has changed relative to the modern Staffordshire Bull Terrier and what is written in the article now. The crux of the disagreement has nothing to do with that information; rather it is related to the fact that the article does not treat, as statement of fact or in "tone", that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier
1766:. This debate has gone on far too long and across far too many fora. In my opinion, either the article body - and not the article lead which should not include any breed history - should reflect both points of view or the article should be delisted. There is far too much reliability being placed on the AKC as a source of this breed's history.
373:... the heavily-built bulldogs were severely hampered in the dog-pits by their lack of agility; so their owners crossed them to lively terriers of proven courage and the bull-and-terrier, or pit-dog, had arrived as a definite breed. ... remained unrecognised for sixty years, finally to emerge in 1935 as the Staffordshire bull terriers.
1711:. Not only does the page not include any of the information you cited, but the entire source does not state the Old English Terrier (or any other name for the breed such as Black and Tan Terrier etc) was used to create the Bull and Terrier, it does not list any breed/variety etc, it just says terriers were used.
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Hopefully, an experienced closer will close this reassessment as it was basically used as a final resort to settle a POV dispute. Fortunately, more project team members started participating in the discussions, and the unwarranted tag-bombing has ceased; the tags have been removed, and the article is
1552:
If DNA wasn't considered a good source, I would not even mention it. In fact, I'm going to add those 2 links in my list of sources. Understanding the theories of origin is important, especially considering Bull and terrier relates to and serves as an important historic reference for all the other dog
1228:
Adding: I can provide many more RS than what are listed below, and will add that most of the sources cited by
Cavalryman, when read in context, actually corroborate my position and what the sources I've added have published less the figurative language and/or opinion by authors who are selling books.
1323:
In our study, some of the largest differences between UK and U.S. participants' responses to whether each photographed dog was a pit bull were for the two dogs who more than 90% of UK participants considered to be
Staffordshire bull terriers (Dogs 11 and 17). A high percentage of UK participants did
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It is a generic designation for several breeds including the
American pit bull terrier, which was the first breed registered by the United Kennel Club (UKC) in 1898; its counterpart, the American Staffordshire terrier, which was registered by the American Kennel Club (AKC) in 1936; and the ancestor
1859:
The GAR has not achieved consensus or confirmed that there is a NPOV issue. There is no POV issue - the issue is the POV pushing to include a fringe view that the
Staffordshire Bull Terrier IS the bull and terrier group of heterogeneous dogs; i.e., undocumented, unpedigreed mongrels or dog types of
1324:
not consider those two dogs to be pit bulls, whereas a high percentage of U.S. participants did consider them to be pit bulls. This is likely because in the United
Kingdom, the Staffordshire bull terrier breed is perceived as separate from the pit bull and is not banned under the Dangerous Dog Act."
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created in this way, most now extinct, the
Staffordshire Bull Terrier, perfected by one James Hinks, of Birmingham, England, in the mid-19th century, emerged as one of the most successful and enduring. The breed name that finally came to these burly, broad-skulled terriers is a nod to the county of
1184:
to
Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any other purebred article, would be a mistake because Bull and terrier is relied upon by several other articles for historic reference. Multiple purebreds share a common ancestry with the bull and terrier crosses, including but not limited to 6 distinct purebreds:
1107:
I won't attempt to speak for William Harris, but he did support the merger so it appears he agreed that the mountain of sources represent the mainstream view. Interestingly he retired from the project in disgust because, just like here, some editors were trying to discount reliable sources that did
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Unfortunately for the historian tracing a nice straight line is not easy when examining the background of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier if only because it comes under quite a few names. They might be called Bull & Terriers in some journals and at other times the dogs are called Pit Dogs, maybe
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The result of the decision to breed more athletic dogs for fighting purposes was the emergence of the so-called 'Bull and Terrier', sometimes referred to as the 'Pit dog'. This is of prime importance in the story of the development of our breed as 150 years later this dog would be recognised by the
1283:
became popular, a new type of dog began to emerge – one that possessed the strength and courage of the bulldog but also had the agility, tenacity and intelligence required to excel in this new sport. To achieve this the breeders of the time crossed the bulldog with various breeds of small terrier.
1812:
which it currently is not, and with no caveats like "unsupported theories or opinions" which is one editor's opinion that is not reflected in any source whatsoever. And as has been explained repeatedly, most kennel clubs that provide a historical summary (including the American Kennel Club) state
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Cavalryman, this GAR is not the place to discuss past edits that are no longer in an article, and certainly not the place to be discussing Bull and terrier which is not a GA. Take your concerns to the TP of the respective articles where editors can corroborate and fix the issues. I will no longer
1276:
shares the same ancestry as the Bull Terrier, i.e. Bulldog crossed with the Black and Tan terrier, and was developed as a fighting dog. When the founder of the Bull Terrier James Hinks added other breeds like the Collie to change the head shape of that breed, devotees of the original type of bull
1269:
by David Hancock - "I believe it perfectly reasonable to consider the Staffie as the contemporary example of a bulldog and am saddened that we can no longer view the pedigree Bulldog as the sporting breed it once was. For the English Bulldog to lose its claim on its own breed title is more than a
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Bulldogs which were too slow and ponderous for the 19th-century Corinthians who introduced a dash of terrier blood to give speed and agility and so laid the foundations of the ‘Bull and Terrier’ breed. By virtue of its association with the Black Country this breed was to become the Staffordshire
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theory that defies logic and the science behind it. Hinks is more than just a "passing mention" as it relates to the ancestry of all bull terriers/bull and terrier crosses, and once you understand that, you will have a better understanding of what Hinks contributed to both modern breeds back in
1413:
FYI - the article does stick to the topic at hand - theories of origin - but your unfamiliarity with common ancesters of 6 distinct modern purebreds and what constitutes a modern breed may be interfering with your judgement as to what does and does not belong in the article. If it were simply a
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The content of this article is the subject of a long-running dispute on the talk-page, with no sign that I can see that resolution is imminent or even likely; it can't be considered stable. The text is far from neutral in tone, and contains so much off-topic material that it can't reasonably be
1784:
The article does include all significant views in three subsections under History – fringe theories as well as the mainstream, scientifically supported FACTS including a DNA section, all properly cited. It also doesn't matter how many times a RS is cited, especially one of the oldest and most
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state of the article itself. It is not well written, it is not well sourced, it is not neutral, it is not focused on the topic; yes, the prolonged dispute means that it is also not stable, but that is far from being the only problem. If you want to start rewriting the article to become more
1469:
Atsme, once again none of your sources disprove anything and again you are trying to misconstrue what citations state, the AKC is definitive about the Bull and Terrier being the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the confusion is because the breed was previously known by different
1646:– = what I added in that History section included 4 sentences describing the appearance of bulldogs of the era because the bulldog is the prominent breed in the bull and terrier cross, and it's the History section. Is this not a "duh" moment? The rest was already there:
1723:
BTW, that paper you have cited states the Bull and Terrier was later recognised as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and ... that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was the progenitor to the American Pit Bull Terrier (so by extension the American Staffordshire Terrier etc).
1077:
Both theories of origin are in the article. Nothing has changed from a century ago to verify anything beyond anecdotal accounts of what MIGHT have happened - myths and speculation as I've proven repeatedly. They are theories - nothing more - and we do. not. state.
524:, breed of terrier developed in 19th-century ... created by crossing the bulldog ... with a terrier ... Once known by such names as bull-and-terrier, half and half, and pit bull terrier ... It is an ancestor of the somewhat-larger American Staffordshire terrier ...
1309:
from the UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory has also found the dominant haplotype 1 of the English bulldog in the French bulldog, Bull Terrier, Bull mastiff, Miniature bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, Wire-haired fox terrier, Beagle, and Coton de
1229:
The statement that the Stafforshire Bull Terrier is the renamed bull and terrier is nothing more than figurative language in most cases, or it's born of breed politics and "bragging rights". We've all used figurative language - in fact, I did in this
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173:. Alas I was hoping we wouldn’t progress to this point, but given the continued, concerted and aggressive attempts to avoid acknowledging what sources say about the breed, the article does not present a NPOV. Below are the sources presented at
1618:- wow! That is an outright character assasination. I'm not sure if it rises to the level of T&S involvement but you owe me an apology. Despite being pressed for time, I went back and retraced my steps to find out what happened with Fleig.
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Atsme, the previous dispute has no bearing on this discussion, but from memory that dispute commenced because you were attempting to say James Hinks was central to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier's development, now that's a fringe theory for
1607:
That is how the 6 distinct bull-and-terrier breeds became established. One by one, the AKC recognized five of them in this order–Bull Terrier, Boston Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and Miniature Bull
989:) pertains to the same subject or not. I'm not well-versed enough into these matters to be the judge of that, but I don't see how that affects the GA status of this here article. It seems suggestions range from merging the content of
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matter of copy editing, I welcome the collaboration, but your suggestion speaks in generallities to context, and that concerns me. I totally disagree with what you've stated, and am done with this discussion. It speaks for itself.
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The Bull and Terrier might have disappeared if not for a group of fanciers led by Joseph Dunn, who appreciated the dogs for their own sakes and persuaded The Kennel Club (England) to recognize the breed as the Staffordshire Bull
1518:
Responding to ping by JLAN - I would love collaborating with you, and it's good to know that you've been reading. It won't hurt for you to keep reading, starting with the RS I cited above, because you are still misunderstanding
1334:– "Dogfighting was particularly prominent in the Black Country’s landlocked coal and iron mining county of Staffordshire, where the new Bull and Terrier breed came to be known as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (Semencic 1984)."
837:
The first recorded name of this dog was the Bull-and-terrier. It has also been referred to as the Bull-dog Terrier, the Pit dog, the Brindle Bull, the Patched Fighting Terrier, the Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire
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sources in the Nicolai article and the Zwettler self-published book, it cites the same Pearce book twice, it inexplicably cites "Amazon.co.uk" and "Issuu", and it provides no page number for the Worboys et al, Read, Hall and
1966:
These are clearly mainstream views held by kennel clubs, independent authors and independent publishing houses. Yet the article does not acknowledge most of those points at all. Therefore the article does not present a
1131:, this article does not present a neutral point of view. Further, this needs to be stated with no caveats like "unsupported theories or opinions" which is your opinion that is not reflected in any source whatsoever.
1610:
I've already provided the process for name choices as it was handled by TKC, the official breed registry with the authority to approve or reject the newly formed parent club, the new dog breed submission, and name
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it is generally accepted that the modern Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a direct descendant of dogs of mixed origin, generally known during most of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, as the Bull and
1127:, Bull Terrier, Half and half and Pit dog (among other names), and it was given its current name in 1935 in order to achieve kennel club recognition. Until this is included in the article with prominence
1445:, I suggest that a good first step might be to remove as off-topic all but a passing mention of Hinks and his development of that breed. Unless there's objection here I'll go ahead and do that soon.
1785:
reliable breed registries in the world with the largest DNA database. The article does not and will not state any fringe theory in WikiVoice which is what started this entire reassessment is about.
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reply to your allegations here, and I will certainly not respond to your character assassinations and your bad faith interrogation. If it continues, I will simply file a complaint with T&S.
1586:
Responding to aspersions/PAs by Cavalryman – all are noted, and they don't change the fact that the bull and terrier of the 1800s is not the Staffordshire Bull Terrier renamed. I'm pretty sure
1061:
Thank you for the ping, apologies for my late response I missed the notice on WP Dogs and have removed this page from my watchlist. I am fully supportive of restarting the process, Hancock’s
1720:(in the month after this dispute commenced you made only three edits to dog related articles or TPs outside of those connected to this dispute) is a very concerning pattern of behaviour.
1205:
the same dogs as the heterogenous dogs that were crossed centuries earlier. To make such a claim defies logic and has nothing whatsoever to do with NPOV or the reason to delist a GA.
1391:, in clear plain neutral encyclopaedic English, and sticking to the topic in hand? As before, if you're interested in doing that I'm happy to collaborate to the best of my ability.
1844:
I did not call for another round of debate from the parties. The article lacks a WP:NPOV and has been tagged accordingly. It cannot endure as a GA article as it currently stands.
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The origins of this breed are far from illustrious. It was developed primarily as a fighting dog in the early nineteenth century from terriers crossed with Bulldogs ...
724:
The new breed went by many names: Bull and Terrier, Half and Half, Pit Dog, Pit Bullterrier and later — for the region where it originated — Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
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The Bull Terriers attracted a higher-class owner than the older Bull-and-Terriers, and these latter were officially christened the Staffordshire Bull Terrier in 1935.
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1302:¶Another breed that descended from these rough-hewn crosses was the Bull Terrier, which was molded into a distinct breed by James Hinks of Birmingham, England."
1055:
Perhaps the time to end breed club myth starts now with the Staffordshire Bull Terrier article. I note that the FCI Breed Standard has not bought into this myth.
1242:*Where in that link does it say that painting is Hinks-type Bull Terrier look alike? Is that just your impression? Pure white SBTs are known and allowed. Also
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from this one, starting from the same nineteenth-century cross-bred dogs). I hope that others will comment on the quality of the sourcing and any possible
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specifically states the Staffordshire’s forebears (he discusses both theories of origin) on page 60, further references are on pages 61-66. Kind regards,
1180:. My concern is that this GAR is a back door attempt to get consensus for a merge proposal that, without a doubt, would cause great confusion. Merging
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Before obtaining Kennel Club recognition, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was known variously as the Pit Dog, Bull-and-Terrier, or even the Half-and-Half!
1590:
wasn't in the UK in 1860 offering canine cryonics so those dogs could wake-up in the 21st century as Staffordshire Bull Terriers. Quoting David Harris,
350:... a new breed known as the bull terrier, or the 'half-and-half' breed. It was also called the pit dog and eventually the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
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The Bull-and-Terrier, the Patched Fighting Terrier, the Staffordshire Pit-dog, and the Brindle Bull are a few of the Stafford’s historical aliases.
1172:- this GAR is malformed and is being misused in an effort to settle a disagreement. Furthermore, this GAR and the NPOV tags are noncompliant with
1540:
or conflating author opinions and figurative language with statements of fact. CONTEXTMATTERS, logic matters, and so does the science - such as
1349:, as I've said just above your post, my reason for initiating this review was not the dispute (which I've been watching for some time), but the
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The Staffordshire Bull Terrier was not recognised by the English Kennel Club until 1935, despite being bred in the UK in the nineteenth century.
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story is true, why did you use the source to cite the information that you did? In the two pages of the dispute you used the source to cite:
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It is believed that bull and terriers were crossbred primarily from the ] and one or more varieties of ]s.<ref name="Fleig-1996": -->
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the breed's name was later changed to "Staffordshire Bull Terrier" in order to achieve kennel club recognition, this occurred in 1935
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1411:...mostly I'm inclined to defer to your opinion...this is not an area I'm particularly (or really even marginally) familiar with.
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is my initial edit citing Fleig. Why does it bother you to the point of Wikihounding me over it? I found the quote on pg 18 of
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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which does not conform to your new version of events. Having found a photo of the book's contents page on the internet
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Genomic analyses reveal the influence of geographic origin, migration and hybridization on modern dog breed development
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His ancestors are believed to be the bulldog and English terrier and he was known as the Pit Dog or Pit Bull Terrier.
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the bull and terrier renamed. The reason it doesn't is because it is simply not true - such a theory aligns with the
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1489:. I am happy to share this page with any impartial admin to verify. Are there any other sources in this article (or
1485:, the cited page makes no mention of any terrier whatsoever, it is exclusively about 20th century conformation show
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I intended to add more despite your disruptive behavior, but here we are – wasting even more of our valuable time.
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The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is the "original Bull Terrier", simply a renamed version of the "Bull and Terrier".
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the 1800s that were named for their function, not a bonafide breed. No breed registries existed at that time.
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Also, more sources have been presented that state the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is the ancestor of the various
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This, in addition to your attempts to hound me, first trying to disrupt an article I recently elevated to a GA
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which many sources state descends from separate crosses of Bulldogs and terriers that occurred in the US).
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article, the latter solution which would have little to no consequences for the status of this article.
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It was created in the 19th century in Staffordshire, by crossbreeding the Bulldog and various terriers
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Fleig, D. (1996:86). ''Fighting Dog Breeds''. T.F.H. Publications. {{ISBN|0-7938-0499-X}}</ref: -->
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In addition to the over three dozen independently authored works (several of which are tertiary, but
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Staffordshire Terriers, half-bred dog, or simply come under the general umbrella of the Bull Terrier.
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The result was aptly called the Bull and Terrier, later to be dubbed the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
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Shaw, Vero (1879–1881). ''The Classic Encyclopedia of the Dog''. {{ISBN|0-517-43282-X}}</ref: -->
1043:- the apology from Cavalryman for his inappropriate behavior, not unlike what he has exhibited here.
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Fleig, D. (1996). ''Fighting Dog Breeds''. T.F.H. Publications. {{ISBN|0-7938-0499-X}}</ref: -->
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It remains my preference to fix the article, but you continue to resist all attempts at doing so.
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considered to be focused on the topic either (as an example, material about James Hinks, who bred
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On another note, my library have just managed to get some scans of pages from the Dieter Fleig's
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needs to do the same. Given you have recently rewritten that article to conform to your opinions
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Further clarification after a bit of research that has stirred my memory - perhaps it will stir
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Well, you just confirmed WP:NPOVN, DONTLIKEIT and CIR which is based on your own disclosure in
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1963:). Additionally, a number of those sources are cited in the article, one is cited eight times.
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the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was initially known by a number of names, but most commonly: "
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the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was developed into a distinct breed of dog in the 19th century
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Responding to ping - "piteous state", JLAN? And what do you propose would make it better?
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662:(Vol. I.), 1822, refer to result of these crossings for the first time as “Bull Terriers”.
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The Staffordshire Bull Terrier ... has existed in Britain for the best part of 175 years.
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it was a hybrid cross between the now extinct ] and ].<ref name="Fleig, D. 1996": -->
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breeds than state otherwise, this also is not represented adequately in the article.
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https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/dog-breeds/bull-terrier-history-behind-the-breed/
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made an important observation about the history of the breed origins and the myth:
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1441:"theories of origin", but a British dog breed. Since this is not our page on the
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The dog: the most complete, illustrated, practical guide to dogs and their world
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says they may be used determine due weight), there are three sources from the
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2804:7F7:2481:FE58:0:0:0:2 (talk - contribs) added it 2 February 2018 8:51 PM.
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which prove you deliberately attempted to falsify the contents of that source
1434:
1415:
1369:
1346:
1206:
1083:
985:
It seems a large part of the dispute revolves around whether another article (
131:
1587:
1813:
emphatically that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is the Bull and Terrier (
129:: Significant changes since the last discussion here so closing as a keep.
1082:
in Wikivoice. It's time for Cavalryman to stop beating this dead horse.
1902:
1898:
1486:
1246:
was born in 1829 so anyone suggesting he bred Trusty in 1800 is a fool.
1120:
1116:
1897:
the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was developed directly from crosses of
303:
Staffordshire Bull Terriers: a practical guide for owners and breeders
1123:(acknowledging a second theory), it was initially known by the names
1280:
1994:
now stable again. I am slowly working toward making the article an
1918:
the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is the ancestor of all of the other
1354:
encyclopaedic I'm happy to collaborate to the best of my ability.
1258:
RS with accurate statements of fact that disprove the fringe claim
1616:"deliberately attempted to falsify the contents of that source"
919:. Further, like Justlettersandnumbers, I believe the focus on
1134:
Finally, in order to prevent this article being branded with
1959:
of France (the last three of which are member clubs of the
1698:
You later gave a different story about how you accessed it
942:. The worst part is this situation was entirely avoidable.
735:. Lydney, Gloucestershire: Ringpress Books Limited. p. 10.
266:"Extended breed standard of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier"
821:. North Pomfret, VT: Trafalgar Square Publishing. p. 346.
1808:
This needs to be included in the article with prominence
1291:
Staffordshire, where the breed was especially popular."
589:
Terriers of the world: their history and characteristics
1718:
1715:
1709:
1706:
1699:
1692:
1684:
1643:
1637:
1627:
1621:
1482:
1478:
1406:
1237:
1230:
1046:
1040:
115:
107:
76:
819:
Dogs: the ultimate dictionary of over 1,000 dog breeds
708:. Neptune, New Jersey: T.F.H. Publications Inc. p. 3.
1717:
and later tagging another I rewrote with page issues
177:
that state either explicitly or implicitly that the
175:
Talk:Staffordshire Bull Terrier#Article's neutrality
733:
Pet owner's guide to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier
923:is UNDUE, as is the completely UNDUE focus on the
591:. London & Boston: Faber & Faber. p. 190.
564:. London: Popular Dogs Publishing Co. Ltd. p. 13.
449:. Hauppauge: Barron's Educational Series. p. 146.
1912:", "Pit dog", "Bull Terrier" and "Half and Half"
1059:Cavalryman was pinged and responded as follows:
706:The guide to owning a Staffordshire Bull Terrier
671:The Staffordshire Bull Terrier and its ancestors
882:. Neptune City, N.J.: TFH Publications. p. 811.
628:He was first known as the Bull-and-Terrier ...
438:of both breeds, the Staffordshire bull terrier.
790:. Midhurst: Beech Publishing House. p. 17-18.
323:Kennel Club as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier!
306:. Ramsbury, Wiltshire: The Crowood Press Ltd.
1905:(with no intermediate breed in their lineage)
1708:, but you subsequently maintained your story
506:. Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. 2022
8:
1891:that that state all or multiple aspects of:
1624:(Staffordshire Bull Terrier) = what I found:
900:And after protracted discussions there with
1240:misconstrued it to be a statement of fact:
194:Sources that contradict the current article
1253:
889:This was the original “Bull-and-Terrier.”
189:
41:The following discussion has been closed.
32:
957:Further, the article cites an unreliable
878:Wilcox, Bonnie; Walkowicz, Chris (1989).
621:. New York: The Golden Press Inc. p. 165.
531:Fletcher, Walter R. (19 September 1971).
18:Knowledge (XXG):Good article reassessment
361:. New York: Viking Press. p. 7 & 13.
210:. London: New Burlington Books. p. 102.
1147:, this is relevant to this discussion.
940:this article is now Start class at best
1688:
1678:
1647:
1615:
1410:
1298:"From Bull-and-Terrier to Bull Terrier
1060:
1054:
888:
869:
836:
805:
777:
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723:
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657:
627:
606:
579:
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491:
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404:
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367:
349:
334:. London: Robert Hale Limited. p. 39.
321:
292:
257:
225:
1961:Fédération Cynologique Internationale
7:
1267:829 Is the Staffie the True Bulldog?
907:To try to avoid acknowledging this,
54:The following discussion is closed.
1288:"From among the profusion of breeds
642:. New York: Galahad Books. p. 481.
533:"A Breed That Came Up the Hard Way"
415:"Back to the time of the gladiator"
332:A history of English country sports
1949:Australian National Kennel Council
413:Coile, D. Caroline (27 May 2001).
275:Australian National Kennel Council
185:are one and the same breed of dog:
24:
1073:) 23:33, 16 September 2019 (UTC).
762:. London: Peerage Books. p. 155.
2018:The discussion above is closed.
1113:overwhelming majority of sources
1108:not conform with their opinions.
880:Atlas of dog breeds of the world
1409:when responding to Cavalryman:
1274:"The Staffordshire Bull Terrier
993:into this article, or into the
116:Watch article reassessment page
1233:, (pointing to photo) I said:
1191:American Staffordshire Terrier
1189:, Staffordshire Bull Terrier,
788:The Staffordshire Bull Terrier
758:Marples, Richard, ed. (1985).
640:The world encyclopedia of dogs
562:The Staffordshire Bull Terrier
474:The encyclopedia of dog breeds
36:2022-08-24 Reassessed as Keep
1:
1553:breeds of the same ancestry.
638:; Hamilton, Ferelith (1971).
1922:breeds (except possibly the
846:"Staffordshire bull terrier"
500:"Staffordshire bull terrier"
381:"Staffordshire Bull Terrier"
234:"Staffordshire Bull Terrier"
1955:of the Netherlands and the
1640:removed the Fleig citation.
1603:Registration and Popularity
1493:) that you have falsified?
472:Cunliffe, Juliette (2002).
445:Coile, D. Caroline (1998).
140:07:57, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
2056:
2013:12:37, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
1984:21:50, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
1875:21:30, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
1854:04:27, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
1834:09:49, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
1800:09:07, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
1776:05:01, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
1705:I questioned you about it
1614:RE: your aspersion that I
1136:Template:Contradicts other
917:Template:Original research
522:Staffordshire bull terrier
447:Encyclopedia of dog breeds
179:Staffordshire Bull Terrier
28:Staffordshire Bull Terrier
1755:17:37, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
1734:08:51, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
1665:08:15, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
1568:21:40, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1503:21:22, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1455:20:58, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1429:20:40, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1401:20:21, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1383:20:12, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1364:20:04, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1220:19:11, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1199:American Pit Bull Terrier
1157:05:41, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
1097:05:19, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
1029:11:15, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
1007:10:32, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
976:09:30, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
952:00:49, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
476:. Bath: Paragon. p. 250.
330:Billett, Michael (1994).
165:21:37, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
2020:Please do not modify it.
1387:Rewriting it with solid
560:Gordon, John F. (1983).
56:Please do not modify it.
44:Please do not modify it.
1957:Société Centrale Canine
1883:Atsme, I have provided
1270:shame, it's a tragedy."
852:Société Centrale Canine
760:Encyclopedia of the dog
677:(Exhibition brochure).
615:Jones, Arthur Frederick
504:Encyclopædia Britannica
357:Buckland, Jane (1961).
300:Beaufoy, James (2016).
149:a totally different dog
1971:of the subject matter.
1195:Miniature Bull Terrier
1111:Now, as stated by the
786:Morley, W. M. (2004).
1969:neutral point of view
1447:Justlettersandnumbers
1393:Justlettersandnumbers
1356:Justlettersandnumbers
1314:J Appl Anim Welf Sci.
1021:Justlettersandnumbers
872:(machine translation)
704:Lane, Marion (1997).
157:Justlettersandnumbers
1943:, and one each from
1941:Canadian Kennel Club
1937:American Kennel Club
934:Unfortunately, like
925:American Kennel Club
619:The treasury of dogs
587:Horner, Tom (1984).
387:Canadian Kennel Club
240:American Kennel Club
1538:flat-earth theories
1475:Fighting dog breeds
1080:flat-earth theories
1037:'s memory as well:
731:Lee, Clare (1998).
1521:Theories of origin
995:Bull-type terriers
660:Annals of Sporting
537:The New York Times
121:Most recent review
57:
2028:
2027:
2003:
1920:bull-type terrier
1865:
1822:bull-type terrier
1790:
1745:
1655:
1595:Kennel Club Books
1558:
1419:
1373:
1340:
1339:
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1178:flat-earth theory
1087:
1063:Sporting terriers
1015:Just to clarify,
964:Percy FitzPatrick
896:
895:
681:Art Gallery. 2014
420:The Baltimore Sun
55:
2047:
2004:
2001:
1947:of Britain, the
1910:Bull and Terrier
1866:
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1653:
1609:
1592:The Bully Breeds
1559:
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1491:Bull and terrier
1420:
1417:
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1371:
1281:"As dog fighting
1254:
1247:
1236:
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1182:Bull and terrier
1140:Bull and terrier
1125:Bull and Terrier
1088:
1085:
1049:- In Option 3 -
991:Bull and terrier
987:Bull and terrier
959:WP:SELFPUBLISHed
936:Bull and terrier
883:
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1945:the Kennel Club
1939:, two from the
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1671:Atsme, if this
1652:
1555:
1550:this cladogram.
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1207:
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929:the Kennel Club
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1187:Boston Terrier
1185:Bull Terrier,
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510:27 February
77:visual edit
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1885:four dozen
1826:Cavalryman
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1534:in context
1529:flat-earth
1495:Cavalryman
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968:Cavalryman
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685:8 February
406:Terrier...
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1608:Terrier.
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