Knowledge (XXG)

Billy Costigan

Vyrium

Page 44

Norfolk County Public Library

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David Esrati

Irving Middle School (Lincoln, Nebraska)

Kenneth W. Hagin

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Berlin International Church

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WMRA

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Superflat Monogram

Steve Scott (poet)

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SCAR Resource Library

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Black ambient

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Camp Delight

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A A Baig & Co.

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Marc Ferrero

Fox Products Corporation

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 04:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Edit.app (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Tagged as non-notable last month. No sources seem to be added to the article, I therefore feel that the subject does not satisfy inclusion into Knowledge (XXG). D.M.N. (talk) 17:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete no sources and non-notable Compwhiz II_(Contribs) 01:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable. Terraxos (talk) 03:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. Tim Vickers (talk) 23:16, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Bryan S. Higby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails notability criteria of WP:BIO. Googling author's name only gets about 30 hits which are all sales listings of his books or unrelated. Googling his books' titles also yields a limited number of hits (100 - 200) which again are all sales related sites. I could find no proof that any of the listed movies exist. Official website does not even mention him and appears to be completely unrelated. No reviews of his work in general or his published books/movies appear to exist. All in all, it's extremely doubtful any reliable secondary sources have devoted significant coverage to him. Doctorfluffy (talk) 17:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of author-related deletions.--Lquilter (talk) 01:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete unless reliable sources are provided. Terraxos (talk) 03:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 00:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Treehouse of Horror XIX (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The page before contained a completely fake plot section. It is likely that such an episode will air (because there is an annual Treehouse of Horror episode), but absolutely nothing is confirmed. Scorpion 17:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - It's a hoax, that's all there is to it. Gran 17:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete either a hoax or crystal balling Doc Strange (talk) 17:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as per WP:CRYSTAL. — HelloAnnyong 17:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete The current version doesn't have all the nonsense that was in the original article, but it's a hoax. Due to the writer's strike, articles about this season's upcoming episodes are questionable; let alone some idiot's ideas for next season's Simpsons episodes might be. Mandsford (talk) 18:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Yes, it is possible and probable, as it's become a tradition for Groenig and company, but words like "possible," "probable," and "future" scream WP:CRYSTAL. Wait till something is actually known before this is recreated. Redfarmer (talk) 18:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete but in fairness to the editor who created the article this must not be classified as a hoax. Crystal-balling, yes, because XIX hasn't been announced yet as an episode. But the article clearly indicates that it's about a possible/probable episode, so that means it's not a hoax. Doesn't mean it needs an article yet, either, of course. I retract my earlier comment as I didn't realize the current version is edited down from an obviously made-up story list. But WP:CRYSTAL still applies to the current version, anyway. Assuming Knowledge (XXG) still allows episode articles come the fall, it can be recreated if and when this episode is produced and either officially announced or broadcast.23skidoo (talk) 19:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as crystal-balling. Like what others have said, consider re-creating the article when the episode airs and can be sourced. 1ForTheMoney (talk) 20:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete until details are announced. _{WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN} 21:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Was recently reworded. I think that an annually occurring episode should have a stub. Compwhiz II_(Contribs) 01:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete No episodes from next season have been announced yet. The article even says it: "potential name of a possible future episode". While I have no doubt that the annual episode will be back (unless this retarted writers strike continues for several more months), this article shouldn't exist until the episode is confirmed and a air date announced. TJ Spyke 02:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per TJ Spyke and others. I'll note further that the series of episodes has its own article, Treehouse of Horror (series) (a Featured Article), where mention of upcoming episodes, trends, the impact of the strike, or whatever, could be mentioned. A standalone article for one episode fails WP:CRYSTAL, at least for now. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 02:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 00:14, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Punk-A-Low (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

NN band, no sources given (the only link is to a my space page that fails WP:N). A quick Google search yields nothing. meshach (talk) 17:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete Non-notable Myspace band. Lugnuts (talk) 17:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as per WP:NOTE. A my-space page doesn't establish someone's notability. -- Niaz 17:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Hard to see this being mentioned in reliable publications. --neonwhite user page talk 17:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable band. — HelloAnnyong 17:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per everyone else. Non-notable and a myspace page doesn't cut it for me. 1ForTheMoney (talk) 20:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was merge. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 02:03, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Mischa Lecter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Delete, there is absolutely nothing in this article that is not said in the novel or film articles.--The Dominator (talk) 16:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Weak keep. It requires huge clean-up. -- Niaz 17:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Personally I think it can be merged into List of minor characters in the Hannibal series. The character does appear in two books and a film, but it's a very minor appearance. All that is known is that she is the younger sister of Hannibal Lecter and that she was cannabalised at the end of WWII. This is already mentioned in the existing articles.--The Dominator (talk) 17:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Merge into List of minor characters in the Hannibal series. Article isn't notable enough to stand on its own, but she does deserve some mention. — HelloAnnyong 17:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep/Merge Article does need a bit of work and expansion. Mischa was a fairly notable character in the series. I suppose it could be merged, although if its because everything about the character could be said in article for the novel they appeared in, then what about Buffalo Bill's article or even Will Graham's? And in the future, it'd be nice if I could have been notified of its deletion by the nominator and not some bot since I was the one who created the article.--CyberGhostface (talk) 18:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• See, you just gave a good reason as to why it should be merged. "Notable character in the series" A character has to be notable on its own and not just within the series. The only characters who pass that in the Hannibal series is Hannibal himself and possibly Starling.--The Dominator (talk) 18:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Merge into List of minor characters in the Hannibal series. (An article which has problems of its own, like the total lack of references, but as long as it exists this should go there.) Terraxos (talk) 03:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. --The Dominator (talk) 05:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Merge per the others. This fictional character has not received significant coverage by reliable, secondary sources to establish notability. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 01:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• Merge Nominator, slight clarification of position.--The Dominator (talk) 01:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was keep. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 05:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Pawel Szajda (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable, fails WP:BIO—significant roles in notable films, television, stage performances, and other productions. Visor (talk) 16:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. —Visor (talk) 16:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. —Visor (talk) 22:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. —Visor (talk) 22:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - needs more input from notable sources as United Artists or Broadway's or such. Otherwise I go with Visor. No big deal, just work on it or as an director will say on scene to extras - keep busy! greg park avenue (talk) 03:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable actor. Terraxos (talk) 03:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Seems to be fairly notable, article needs a rewrite and reliable sources, but the actor seems notable.--The Dominator (talk) 05:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • What do you mean by "seems notable". Any proofs/references? Visor (talk) 12:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• I said "seems" I don't know too well, but he has several google hits and seems to have had multiple speaking roles in mainstream films.--The Dominator (talk) 03:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

• Take a look at his IMDb Profile and you'll see that all his roles are minor. See also WP:GHITS & WP:DIRECTORY. Visor (talk) 08:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

IMDB is notoriously incomplete and inaccurate. It is not the arbiter of notability for actors. JERRY _contribs 05:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

• I don't really see how it's a violation of the latter, but I really don't care enough to go out of my way to look for sources.--The Dominator (talk) 15:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

• keep. His role in Under the Tuscan Sun meets the nominator's cited significant roles in notable films. --Paularblaster (talk) 00:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  • If his role of Pawel in this movie is significant, why his character has not been mentioned in plot? Visor (talk) 12:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

If you mean in the wikipedia article on the film, he plays the foremost of the "Polish workers" referred to collectively; his character is also the main protagonist of a romantic subplot as detailed in this review. --Paularblaster (talk) 13:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per my older prod. Unless expanded with more references, he doesn't seem notable.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 20:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep I searched google. The only evidence of notability I could find was here, where his photograph is used to illustrate the article about EncoresNYC, in which the broadway play he was the star of was described. And here, where YM magazine did an Aww Yeah! (heart-throb article) about him, and here, here, here, and , where Broadway World features articles about him and the plays he is in, oh, and here, where CNET Networks Business: BNET interviews him. And then there's here, where Hollywood Reporter tells how he will be "co-starring" in the 2008 HBO seven-part miniseries: Generation Kill. He appeared speaking Polish while timing a speedskater in an AT&T commercial during the 2002 Winter Olympics. In 2005, He played "Ricky" in Venom. He played "College Guy" in Hope & Faith: Do I Look Frat In This? In 2007, he played "Sean" in Death Without Consent. Interestingly, there appears to be a likely-notable dancer in Poland by this name as well. JERRY _contribs 05:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete by User:SGGH, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 18:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Gypsy crow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Clearly a hoax. None of it makes any sense. First page of ghits all for people's nicknames and restaurants, etc--no birds. LeSnail (talk) 16:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete - clearly a fake. Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 16:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as G3 (vandalism), clearly a hoax, so tagged. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 16:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete per G3, total hoax Doc Strange (talk) 18:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was keep. --Bongwarrior (talk) 03:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Vladimir Narbut (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No assertion of notability. 5 English ghits, none notable. Somewhat more in Russian, but none appear to be substantive. Doesn't appear to be notable enough for coverage in the English Knowledge (XXG), however it's possible that there is notable information in the Russian Knowledge (XXG) article. Travellingcari (talk) 16:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Speedy keep Clearly a notable poet (Acmeism was a major movement in Russian poetry). He has a biography in Russian here plus an article on Knowledge (XXG).ru. Incidentally, "Vladimir Narbut" brings considerably more than 5 Google hits. --Folantin (talk) 17:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment I admit I may have used the wrong google search. I'm not disputing the Russian sources since I can't read them well enough, do you think there's enough English coverage to warrant an article in the English Wiki or should he be mentioned in the context of acmeism? I didn't see the English articles being substantive enough to support an article, but I admit it could have been a bad call on my part. Let's see what others think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Travellingcari (talk • contribs) 17:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Speedy keep Notable poet. There was an article about him in "Literature Encyclopedia of 1929-1939" (see an article about this book on ru:Литературная энциклопедия 1929—1939). Speaking about English articles, they are not online, but you can find references to several of them here. Mserge (talk) 18:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Another comment: the question I have from the linked Michigan page is that searching on one of the books mentioned doesn't make it clear whether those are indeed English books or if the Michigan page simply names the translation of the Russian title. As I said above and below to Folantin, I'm not debating his notability in Russian (and the Russian wikipedia), I just question whether there is enough in English to include him here. If so, how can the article be improved? Travellingcari (talk) 18:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Reply to nominator: Well, coverage in the English wiki doesn't depend on the number of English-language sources available but, judging by a Google Books search, even on those grounds he's due an article. For example, he has an entry in Victor Terras' Handbook of Russian Literature (not accessible online). The major problem with the English Knowledge (XXG) article (which I suspect is what prompted you to put it up for deletion) is that it's a stub the original author seems to have abandoned before he or she got round to any significant events in Narbut's career. For example, one thing you wouldn't learn from our page is that Narbut was killed in a Soviet prison camp. That's quite a big omission! --Folantin (talk) 18:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Reply fair enough. I agree on your assessment re: an abandoned stub and the sources initially found seemed to repeat the one line about him being important in acmeism and his dates of birth/death. Perhaps a lack of English information is what led the stub author to abandon the stub. So I guess the guestion is then how can we improve the article to make it worthy of inclusion? I'm not familiar enough with Narbut or his work, nor competent enough in Russian to know how much can be expanded upon. Travellingcari (talk) 18:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment Maybe I'll try to provide a brief outline of his life and works using Russian sources some time this week. Incidentally, as I've said, notability on English Knowledge (XXG) is not dependent on the availability of English-language sources on the Net. We're supposed to see things from a global perspective. --Folantin (talk) 18:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment I agree on the global perspective but if a subject isn't covered substantially in English, what's the likelihood that someone is going to look to the English wikipedia for information on the subject? I'm not disagreeing that this stub maybe has potential at some point in the future but I don't agree that the article as it stands warrants a speedy keep. That's just my opinion on the issue and I've enjoyed this discussion. Travellingcari (talk) 19:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Reply I'm afraid none of what you say in the above comment is a valid ground for deletion per our policies. Thanks. --Folantin (talk) 19:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Speedy keep Clearly a notable poet - Vald (talk) 18:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep as per everyone who voted that above. Editorofthewiki (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment I've expanded the article using an online Russian source. Ideally, somebody should doublecheck my version to see if I've got the details right. I'm tired and my Russian is a little rusty. --Folantin (talk) 20:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of author-related deletions.--Lquilter (talk) 01:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Strong keep I added a reference to Teras's Handbook of Russian Literature (Yale University Press), a basic source in English, where there's a short but detailed article on this notable and interesting figure. It gives a different death date (November 15 1944) than the one in the current version--maybe somebody knows which is right?--Wageless (talk) 23:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment According to this site the 1944 date is falsified and 1938 is correct. Maybe Terras was published before the opening of the Soviet archives? There's also some disagreement over the cause of his death as the source linked claims he drowned. --Folantin (talk) 08:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete and salt since there appear to be BLP issues and the article was recreated after deletion. If you want this undeleted you need to create a draft in your user space that uses lots of proper reliable sources that provide a rounded biograophy of this individual and then present it at DRV for review. Spartaz 17:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Arnold Murray (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article recreated (though not as pure re-creation of deleted material) by Mercster (talk · contribs) after been recently deleted in another AFD. Concern has been raised that this article does not follow WP:BLP and WP:RS and that this person is not notable per WP:BIO. Following discussion on the articles talk page I am bringing this to AFD for the community to decide. This is a procedural nomination so I am neutral for now. Camaron | Chris (talk) 16:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

LOL...procedural. Great job! Mercster (talk) 17:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. None of the sources provided seem to qualify as reliable sources to me, therefore it fails WP:BIO. Terraxos (talk) 03:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Well this deletion nomination is stupid. 90% of this articles content followed what Arnold Murray has done/said on his television program. His television program should count as a reliable citation for this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.83.5.114 (talk) 08:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete as fails WP:BLP unable to find reliable sources per WP:V. Article also has WP:POV issues. Major contributor seems to be trying to provide a sanitized version of this subject, and has admitted being a "student" of the subject. Sting au Buzz Me... 11:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• comment at first glance there seems to be a fair amount on google news (contrary to a rather disingenuous assertion on the article's discussion page). --Paularblaster (talk) 01:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

"disingenuous assertion"? Have you read WP:CIVIL? When I did that Google news search it came up zero just as I stated. Which of the links you have provided are saying gives notability to "Arnold Murray"? Pick two of the best out and add them to the article. Sting au Buzz Me... 05:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes I have read WP:CIVIL, but I also know when to call a spade a spade. I'm not asserting notability, I'm asserting that something smells fishy. --Paularblaster (talk) 08:27, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

What's fishy is this guy's motives. Less than 24 hours after the article is written, this self-proclaimed "WikiOgre" (the definition sounds like someone who wants to be respected (feared?) for doing nothing but nitpicking on others' work) put the Notability tag on. As you can see in the talk page, I added sources, one of which is a NYC CBS affiliate (!); worried but still unwilling to actually look at the article, he began pasting (in a completely non-grammatical manner) what would be considered "POV" additions to the article, obviously drawn from a couple of the references I had used that happened to criticize Murray. I suspect he was baiting me into editing someone else's content so I could be made to look like i have an interest in something other than quality articles? Why else would he begin adding obviously POV content to what a day earlier he considered a non-notable person?

After I rightfully Undid that as crap (read: vandalism, which is exactly what it was), suddenly he's got admins (does any one of you know anything about the subject? do you have any criticisms of the text of the article in regards to WP:NPOV rather than pointing out that I admitted I was a student of his?) up in arms and throwing around WikiNerd acronyms in a very intimidating manner.

LOL. Amateurs. I'm not even voting in this thing, if the page gets deleted, guess who suffers. Not me :-) If anyone with a head on their shoulders wants to fight the good fight, you're welcome to it.Mercster (talk) 13:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I have reviewed this and I have once again not found any real foundation to the accusations been made here. Putting the notability tag on is exactly what you should do with a biographical article with unclear notability per WP:BIO, especially given that this article was recently deleted in a previous AFD - adding tags to articles is not supposed to be a big deal. Adding sourced "POV" to the article is actually absolutely fine if it is balanced, see WP:UNDUE and WP:YESPOV. I am also still confused on how this is vandalism. Edits made by people are not divided between good and vandalism, I have seen no evidence that this established user was not attempting to improve the article, hence per WP:AGF, it is not fair to consider it vandalism (which is a serious accusation to make). I have also seen no evidence that Sting au (talk · contribs) has "got admins up in arms"; my involvement here has had nothing to do with the actions of Sting au. I am remaining neutral on if this article should be deleted or not, but I have and will keep an eye on this wherever it goes given its history, just to help with process. Also for the records, I am actually a WikiGnome. Camaron | Chris (talk) 17:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

There's nothing fishy about me putting the notability tag on less than 24 hours after creation. From memory I think I marked it as patrolled too didn't I? Anyhow, I know I spotted it in the "new pages" list as I patrol new pages on a regular basis and tag them with appropriate maintenance tags. As for my WikiOgre userbox that seems to be offensive. I guess I can understand where he's coming from? There is a picture of an Ogre on that page that is about to grab some kiddies in their bed! Now I can see how people would find that offensive. It's supposed to be about advancing on unsuspecting articles, but even that concept will no doubt cause undue stress to new article creators not wanting "their" creations to be deleted/altered from here. I'd thought the WikiOgre tag suited me with the new page patrols and tagging articles etc, and I was just trying to fit into the community with my use of this userbox. Now that I've seen that it does indeed cause stress I shall go and remove the userbox from my userpage. Sting au Buzz Me... 23:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Please pay attention to what is being written. Read read read. It is not adding tags that was fishy, it was adding one tag, and then editing the article with vandalism the next day with POV info. Which is it, not notable or a POV article? You don't know, you're just being a WikiOgre, right?

It was vandalism. Use your head. Day 1, "WikiOgre" marks article for Notability. Fine. Day 2, after Notability had easily been established, he lashes out with a POV addition that was not balanced in the least; it was essentially the opinion of Murray haters pasted directly into the article. Unlike me, a "good editor", who included spots for both criticisms of Murray and Murray's defense, and also making sure to attribute POV opinion to someone other than the person writing the damn article. Mercster (talk) 02:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey I'm no Sherlock Holmes but here's what I find "fishy". You create this recently deleted article and fill it full of links to religious websites, some of which allude to Murray being a racist, anti-semitic Neo Nazi. Trouble is you write that article to your sanitized version agenda? Now checking the logs shows this article has had to be semi protected in the past due to numerous edit wars! All that before it was deleted in the previous AfD. I wouldn't be surprised if you had been a party to the original edit wars? I wouldn't even be surprised if you are Arnold Murray? I can't actually think who else would bother creating an article on this guy? It's not a case of notability as much as a case of notoriety! Then I guess Hitler has an article so why not other notorious people. I can't imagine editors trying to sanitize Hitlers article though? Who knows. Perhaps they do. It's not on my watch list. Notability is still not established by the way. A guy this notorious must have valid WP:RS out there somewhere? Once notability is established and he passes WP:BLP (which is Policy) then I'll admit the article should be kept. Also I don't regard my edit that you are whining about as being vandalism. Take it to arbitration if you want. I'm prepared to face up to whatever the system needs to throw at me. And to think I decided to begin editing here as a way to relax! Am I a "Murray hater"? Well I wasn't to start with but the more I find out about the guy the less I like him. If his article is kept it should be well balanced. I wouldn't like his content here to be decided by pro Murray editors or in fact Murray himself. Sting au Buzz Me... 02:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Since the issue has been raised, I have restored the edit history behind the existing article for its significance and potential usefulness to editors. Camaron | Chris (talk) 18:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - recreation of article AfD'd for reasons that extend beyond the specific content. The subject of the article just isn't encyclopedic. Furthermore, I am going to call borderline COI on this one - a "student" of this person has entirely re-written the article on Murray - not a week after the article was deleted. I don't consider that appropriate. --Cheeser1 (talk) 21:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Withdrawn by nomintor Non-Admin Closure. Tiddly-Tom 07:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Wayne Tunncliffe (Wayne or Wayne Allen) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Only assertion of notability is regional, not global or national. Not certain that he meets Knowledge (XXG)'s biographical criteria. Not a speedy deletion candidate, but assertion of notability is weak at best - radio presenters are not automatically notable. Solumeiras (talk) 15:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep He has reliable sources. The problem is that the article, i believe, mispells his name. The sources all spell it as Tunnicliffe. --neonwhite user page talk 17:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• OK, I think we can close this now. It was a mistaken nomination by myself... I should have put another template on it, not the AfD

one, sorry! --Solumeiras (talk) 18:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus leaning toward keep, so keep. ···日本穣 05:34, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Five-Timers Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete - one-time sketch with a few throwaway references over the course of several years. No reliable sources establish that this fake "club" has any real-world notability or indeed any real importance within the SNL "universe." All of the "potential members" speculation violates WP:CRYSTAL. Otto4711 (talk) 15:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Weak keep has had some cultural impact, though the article fails to demonstrate that. JJL (talk) 16:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep per JJL. It is an opening routine that has been repeated so often that it's now expected when a host makes a specific number of SNL appearances. The article needs some more citations, however. Mandsford (talk) 18:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• That fans might expect the gag may offer some insight on its in-universe stature but it does not in any way establish any out-of-universe notability. Otto4711 (talk) 22:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand the "in-universe, out-of-universe" argument. Is Saturday Night Live an alternate reality? I thought it was a variety show. Mandsford (talk) 23:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• A sketch is a work of fiction and the club is non-existent. Articles about works of fiction have to establish the real-world notability of the subject. Otto4711 (talk) 01:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete unless more references are provided to show that this is a notable concept. As it is, the list of who does and doesn't qualify is arguably original research. Terraxos (talk) 03:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I didn't agree on WP:OR at first but upon further reflection I see the concerns. For one thing, I thought the term was only applied to hosts and wouldn't have applied it to bands. There are also some in-universe elements (e.g. the handshake description). Nonetheless, I still say keep and edit. Here are some references to it: ("There's a recurring skit on "Saturday Night Live" about the "Five Timers Club".""The "Favre Backup Club" could quite very well be the NFL equivalent to the "Five Timers Club"."), (an NBC affiliate's slideshow on the "club"), (note thet the Club wasn't in this show--it's a spontaneous reference to it), (apparently it was #22 on E!'s list of top SNL moments). Note also how prominently it's used to sell SNL videos and other material by members of the (fictional) Club. It seems to be in adequately wide use. JJL (talk) 18:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep A perfectly justifiable fork for SNL of most-frequent hosts, and the fact that it has a name and is a frequent in-show self-reference only cements notability. Alansohn (talk) 05:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• And the independent reliable sources that establish notability are...?

• The independent reliable sources that establish notability come from http://snltranscripts.jt.org/90/90hmono.phtml and http://snlmusic.parshaparts.com/snlmusic.php. (Deej30 (talk) 16:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC))

• Those sites establish the existence of the sketch. They do not establish the slightest bit of notability. And given that they both include "SNL" in the name, there is the question as to whether there is any affiliation with NBC which would make them non-independent. Otto4711 (talk) 19:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Stop me if I'm wrong, but didn't you argue that there was "No reliable sources" to establish that the article has "any real importance within the SNL universe?" Well, if that is the issue, as you framed it, then clearly the article does because the article was created to highlite the process which the show uses to recognize the various hosts and musical guest who have frequently participated in hosting the show. If you had seriously read the http://snlmusic.parshaparts.com/snlmusic.php link, then you would know that the link was never offered as a site to establish the existence of the sketch, but rather it was offered as concrete evidence of data used for the statistics charts on the article's page. Moreover, if you had read the links, you would know that they were in fact independent from NBC and they are independent sources. In short the article is suppose to be considered as a fork of the greater SNL article in the say light as the article on Weekend Update, Wayne's World or the Coneheads and if you are going to attack the notability of this article, then you have to attack the notability of those articles as well. (Deej30 (talk) 22:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC))

• Stop. You're wrong. As has been stated time and time again, existence does not equal notability. Much of the rest of your comment makes little sense. Ad for copmparing this article to any other SNL-related article, it's an invalid argument per WP:WAX. The existence of any other SNL article has absolutely zero bearing on the existence of this article. And even if it did, the idea that this throwaway sketch should have an article because, for instance, the Wayne's World franchise (which has two feature films...how many feature films are there about the fake five-timer's club? oh yeah, none) does is ludicrous. Otto4711 (talk) 01:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Excuse you... you're wrong. I quoted YOUR own words and refuted them. If my arguments make no sense, then the issue which YOU presented makes no sense. The article has information showing notability (i.e. the cultural reference section and the listed references in the footnotes) outside AND inside the SNL universe. I and others in this discussion have proven that the SNL Five Timer's Club is not a "throw away sketch" and that it has notibility and that it has had an influence in other areas of entertainment like the NFL and cable television. You are also wrong about the use of other sketches and concepts which are related to SNL. OFCOURSE Wayne's World and Weekend Update have nothing to do with the "existence" of the Five Timer's article, and it wasn't offered for that reason... and you know it wasn't. They were offered to show that the Five Timer's Club article serves a similar purpose and/or function like Weekened Update or Wayne's World. Using YOUR analysis, Weekend Update should be considered a "fictional" fake news show "within the SNL universe." Well the Five Timer's Club, again according to you, is a "fake club," which is also inside the SNL universe. Legitimate and independent sources have been offered as cultural references concerning the Weekend Update article and similar legitimate and independent sources have been offered concerning the Five Timer's Club article. If the purpose of Knowledge (XXG) is to present articles of notibility, then the Five Timer's Club article does not go against that mandate anymore than the Weekend Update article. The article also provides insight and a history (via detailed statistical data organized from legitimate sources) on the hosts and musical guest of the show. I believe it to be a noteworthy article and if there is a problem with the format, then all of US should be working together to correct the percieve weaknesses of the article, improve the display (perhaps merge it with another article), and improve the quality by adding additional sources instead of making snappy remarks and arbitrarily advocating the article's deletion. It seems to me that that is the true beauty of Knowledge (XXG)... global community contribution. (Deej30 (talk) 15:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC))

• As stated in my vote, this is a perfectly acceptable fork of SNL. I have added a source that refers to Christopher Walken's "membership" in the club, and I will add more. There is clearly no issue with Saturday Night Live hosts (an article that overlaps this one and should be a merge candidate in one direction or the other) as a fork of the main SNL article, and there is real-world reliable support for the title per se. Alansohn (talk) 21:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Notability requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." That some writer mentioned in passing, in a larger profile of Walken, the fictional five-timers club, does not constitute "significant coverage." Otto4711 (talk) 01:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep This article is perfectly justifiable part of SNL History and indeed ARE of real importance within the SNL "universe." . Moreover, the sources ARE reliable and the reasons given for its deletion are PURELY subjective. The fact that it has a name and is a frequent in-show self-reference only highlights its notability. The article clearly states that the "Five Timer's Club" is a running gag that has appeared in SNL consistently throughout the years. If the standard was to keep articles that has no real-world notability, then why not delete the page on Weekend Update, Wayne's World, or Mr. Bill? The section of on the "potential members" does not violates WP:CRYSTAL, because it is based on the fact that certain host & guest have appeared for a certain number of times and are close to membership in the five time category. Deej30 (Deej30 (talk) 16:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC))
• Delete - No evidence of notability is presented in the article. No independent reliable sources are given and so far no one has given any indication that significant coverage by such sources exists. Additionally a lot of the article appears to be covered - or could be adequately covered - in Saturday Night Live hosts. Guest9999 (talk) 20:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Again, with all due respect, you are mistaken. There are independent and reliable CITED sources of notability {websites and articles) that recognize the SNL Five Timer's club as mark of distinction created by the show. For example, there are footnotes by Steve Martin, Christopher Walken and Tom Hanks' names on the chart. These foot notes prove thaat significant coverage has been given to the Five Timers Club "outside" the "SNL Universe". (Deej30 (talk) 09:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC))

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The result was Delete. --Angelo (talk) 16:50, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Pajtim Kasami (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I'm a LFC fan, but the lack of WP:RS and the general lack notability is not surprising for a "promising" 15 year old with no record beyond being "promising." I would speedy, but its been there for nearly a week now. Rgds, Trident13 (talk) 15:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - Per WP:BIO and fails as per discussions in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Notability#Notability_of_people for "competitors who have played in a fully professional league". -- Alexf 15:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, no notability (yet). The article can be recreated if he ever actually becomes notable. Terraxos (talk) 03:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:BIO as he hasn't played in a fully professional league. пﮟოьεԻ 57 09:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Totally NN. Ought to have been prodded really. Peanut4 (talk) 00:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Has done nothing of note. Fails WP:BIO. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete Spartaz 18:01, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Jack Truman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Grandnephew of President Truman and failed Congressional candidate. Notability is not inherited, there are no real sources, and he hasn't done anything that satisfies WP:BIO. Clarityfiend (talk) 15:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - As above, notability is not inherited. Political candidates are not automatically notable (WP:BIO). While his film-making might endow notability none of the films I've found him credited with would satisfy WP:MOVIES. BlinkingBlimey (talk) 15:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - per WP:BIO. Macy's123 16:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep I agree, notability is not inherited, but looking at his political career and movies it seems that he is indeed notable. If he was only one of those three then he would not be notable, but the combination of the three makes him notable. As WP:BIO for Politicians states:

Just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability, although such a person may be notable for other reasons besides their political careers alone.

He is notable for more than just his political career. Editorofthewiki (talk) 19:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment I think this does come down to interpretation. I did consider his various endeavours outside of politics and wondered if they endowed notability. They would not in their own right, and I think it's a dangerous to set a precendent that mediocrity in a variety of fields endows notability. BlinkingBlimey (talk) 19:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The precedent is already here. See Natasha Collins and both of its deletion dicussions. Editorofthewiki (talk) 22:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

One AFD was delete/redirect, the other was no consensus. That's hardly a ringing endorsement of any kind of precedent. --Dhartung | Talk 06:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Consistency is what we need. If we closed that one as a no censensus default to keep, then we should close this one as a no concensus default to keep, even without the votecount. Editorofthewiki (talk) 23:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. Failed minor political candidate, movie extra, teacher. Where's the notability in that? WWGB (talk) 23:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

There's no notability in any of that alone but combined make the subject notable. Editorofthewiki (talk) 23:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - It's the deletion of articles like this that hurt the reputation of Knowledge (XXG). Notability is a standard applicable for encyclopedias that have limited space on the printed page. All this does is discourage people from contributing. Do what thou wilt. Chadlupkes (talk) 05:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought that it's the preponderance of dross with little or no notability that hurts the reputation of Knowledge (XXG). Then again, I didn't start this article. WWGB (talk) 05:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete, fails WP:BIO in all three career domains. Just having a varied career is not notability. --Dhartung | Talk 09:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it does pass WP:BIO as per my reasoning above. Editorofthewiki (talk) 21:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

FYI: Responding to everyone with the same comment (or a "see my comment above") is not helping you look reasonable and engaged. --Dhartung | Talk 06:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete a7, musician/no assertion of notability. He may have worked hard on this autobiographical article, but this is an high-school-junior rapper "signed" to a redlink label. NawlinWiki (talk) 01:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Rival (Rapper) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable rapper. Fails WP:BLP due to lack of secondary sources. Original author's username is Emceerival, which seems to indicate COI. — HelloAnnyong 14:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - Why isn't this speedy? Doesn't come close to notability as per WP:MUSIC. No independent sources (WP:V). Of course, when the promised album is released things might change and the page can be recreated. Until then it's just a vanity page that has no place on Knowledge (XXG). BlinkingBlimey (talk) 15:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - per WP:MUSIC and WP:V. Macy's123 16:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - I marked it only {{notability}} to avoid WP:BITE. The user appears to be new to wikipedia, yet all things considered put together a reasonable music biography. Since he had more than just one "release", I thought I would give him time to learn the rules about notability and post some secondary sources. My wife and I have been doing new pages / speedy delete patrol and this page is much better than the majority of {{db-bio}} and friends we've placed. I think the article is reasonably neutral point of view (though again, perhaps new pages patrol has colored my view). The user also seems reasonable, and willing to discuss the matter, as per his conversation with Cuyler91093 (Talk). If anyone is willing to work with him a little longer, it seems reasonable the page could be improved to standards, and he might become a regular contributing editor. JackSchmidt (talk) 18:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - Until he does actually produce the sources, I think the conclusion is clear. The five days or so of AfD should be enough time. JackSchmidt (talk) 18:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. —dima/talk/ 00:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete as unsourced. Sandstein (talk) 19:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Explicatus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Orphan article that, after six months, needs a second look. The description given in the article,

An explicatus is a section (or often, an entire volume) of a written work that explains the methods used to collect and analyze the data or research presented in that work. Most often, an explicatus is rather detailed in terms of methodology and in some cases, also in the applications of data found.

may well describe what the one work cited elsewhere in the article consists of, but there's absolutely no evidence that the term (which simply means "explanation" as a noun or "explained" as a participle) has ever been used to denote such works in general. In the absence of reliable sources that support the particular usage adduced in the article, or any usage to refer to a specifiable genre of work, this fails WP:V. Deor (talk) 14:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - Unable to find any verification as per WP:V, even if I could Knowledge (XXG) is not a dictionary. BlinkingBlimey (talk) 15:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Google searches, including Google Books (try it, you'll see what I mean), don't suggest that this is a commonly used term in publishing. Moreover, the article implies that it is unusual for a book to have a section "that explains the methods used to collect and analyze the data or research presented in that work". Mandsford (talk) 18:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

  The text says the term isn't used anymore, not that "it is unusual ...". Pavel Vozenilek (talk) 19:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

  I'm afraid you've completely missed the point about what's implied to be unusual. Mandsford (talk) 23:30, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Weak keep: the term is part of an 1740 book title or a modern Polish book or a 1594 book , cover or a (17th century?) Latin book about Poland or this or Magnus Hippocrates Cous Prosperi Martiani Medici Romani Notationibus Explicatus, 1626 (attached description fits the WP definition). Explicatio (noun) is used in a 17th century book and in 18th century book and in 1661 Samuel Pordage's Mundorum Explicatio and 16th century Japonicae tabulae explicatio . As a section it is used in an 1664 book (probably not in the sense of WP definition).

The claim to delete it doesn't seem to be completely valid. Put in tag "source needed" to warn the reader, obscure medieval terminology takes more time to cover then the modern foreword, preface, ... for dummies or the popularity of XYZ explained titles. Pavel Vozenilek (talk) 19:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment. In your first group of titles, the word is used as a participle (= "explained"), in most of the cases indicating that the work is a commentary on the work of another author. For instance, Magnus Hippocrates Cous Prosperi Martiani Medici Romani Notationibus explicatus means " Great Hippocrates of Cos Explained by the Notes of the Roman Physician Prospero Martiano." In none of these cases is explicatus used as a noun in the sense this article gives. Your second group are instances of the use of a completely different word—explicatio—that has nothing to do with this article. Deor (talk) 00:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete if reliable sources cannot be provided. Even if they can, copying to Wiktionary may be more appropriate. Terraxos (talk) 03:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• copy The article is just a definition anyway, it belongs on Wiktionary. Beeblbrox (talk) 10:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The term "explicatus" has been used for a long time to denote a work that details methods or collected data used to furnish another, primary, work with factual information. As I stated when I wrote the Knowledge (XXG) entry here considered for deletion, Darret and Anita Rutman, two American history professors, have used the term and cite its use elsewhere. I will try to source some other uses of it, also. Just because the term is now rare doesn't mean it should be excluded from Knowledge (XXG): in contrast, it seems all the more reason for it to be included given that some readers may not find a good definition of it elsewhere.Mike (talk) 03:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you can find any specific examples of the use of the term "to denote a work that details methods or collected data used to furnish another, primary, work with factual information" (other than the Rutman volume) or any relevant appearance of the term "in older dictionaries which many people won't bother to consult" (as you've said on the article's Talk page), I'll consider WP:V satisfied and cheerfully withdraw my nomination. I don't think you're going to have much luck, though. Deor (talk) 00:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep This sort of obscure minutiae is exactly the sort of material that belongs on wikipedia. Where else would you find a good explanation of it?

I agree that the article needs to be expanded and can be made better. That said, one gathers the impression from reading the comments of those who want to delete the article that whether an article should be on wikipedia or not is solely based upon their whims and wishes rather than on the site's avowed purpose of placing as much information into the public domain as possible. It would be unseemly for this to devolve into a popularity contest. Canadian Bobby (talk) 03:20, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. Keeper | 76 18:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Free Lebanese Armenian Movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete. No references provided, no independent verification of notability. Google provides only one hit, at a bulletin board WWGB (talk) 13:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Weak keep I see at least two newspaper articles discussing them: . Unfortunately my command of Arabic is quite poor so I can't expand the article myself. cab (talk) 14:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lebanon-related deletion discussions. cab (talk) 14:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. No citation, no independent verification of notability.--Larno Man (talk) 17:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete unless reliable sources are provided. (I can't read Arabic, so it may be that the sources provided satisfy that requirement, but judging from the content of the article I doubt it - this doesn't seem like a notable group to me.) Terraxos (talk) 03:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Weak Keep It's a new movement and certainly not notable as of yet, however, chances are it will be soon and it doesn't hurt to keep the article for a few months or so. If the party doesn't manage to establish notability after a while, then it should be put for AfD. Seems like an interesting political topic anyway. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 03:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was speedy delete. Pegasus «C¦T» 23:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Xentra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Vanispamcruftisement that literally was made up one day. Knowledge (XXG) is not a free web host. 1 ghit. MER-C 13:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete This is a character from stories posted on "some guy's blog", not anything that has actually been published by... anyone. Only source is that guy's blog, nothing reliable or independent. DarkAudit (talk) 15:30, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as non-notable web content. So tagged. Zetawoof_(ζ) 21:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 00:11, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Jah Rad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Blatant vanispamcruftisement, which flunks WP:MUSIC and WP:V. 48 ghits. MER-C 12:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - no reliable sources to establish notability. -- Whpq (talk) 13:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - No independent sources. Absolutely nothing on Google News. Fails WP:MUSIC BlinkingBlimey (talk) 15:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per all of the above. This reads like a promotional flyer. Totally inappropriate tone for an encyclopedia article. DarkAudit (talk) 15:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - No sources, needs to be wikified, and fails WP:N. Macy's123 16:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 02:27, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ghaith Madadha (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Non-notable journalist - there's nothing to distinguish him from thousands of other writers. The only Google hits seem to be his articles - no evidence whatever of any kind of notability as WP defines it, no internal evidence of it within the article and no worthwhile references. andy (talk) 11:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete: Aside from a handful of articles he's written, the only piece about him I could find was this which isn't enough to establish notability. Toddst1 (talk) 12:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - Remarkably few hits, especially as he is a journalist (Google News only brought up one article he'd written). No evidence of notability. BlinkingBlimey (talk) 15:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. Unfortunately the article does not meet WP:N, and rough consensus on this page is that it cannot do so. This result has no prejudice against recreation if it is found the article can meet relevant policies. Camaron | Chris (talk) 11:02, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

King George International College (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete - No sources. Notability not established. The article reads like a brochure promoting this private ESL school. Reggie Perrin (talk) 11:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. —Reggie Perrin (talk) 11:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. —Camaron | Chris (talk) 12:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. GreenJoe 01:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - arguably Canada's largest English language school with five campuses. Obviously notable. It needs a good clean but that is not a deletion ground. TerriersFan (talk) 02:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Arguably, but according to whom? There is no source for that claim. Unfortunately, there has been a problem in Canada with privately run international schools of dubious worth attracting students from abroad on the basis of their website only to fail to deliver what was promised. Given that we have to be especially careful with these private ESL schools to ensure that their claims are backed up by reliable third party sources. Reggie Perrin (talk) 03:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Incidentally, their website claims they are "one of the largest", not the largest and they have four campuses, not five. Looking at the photos most of the "campuses" look like they are no more than a room in an office building.Reggie Perrin (talk) 03:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete unless reliable sources are provided. Terraxos (talk) 03:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Weak Keep the article is a thorough description of a school system with multiple campuses nationwide and a strong claim of notability. Article needs to be expanded, not deleted, per Knowledge (XXG):Deletion policy. Alansohn (talk) 05:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, may be legitimate but certainly falls short of WP:N. --Dhartung | Talk 09:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete WP:NOT#DIR. Also, per WP:SELFPUB, we cannot "expand, not delete" articles for which the only potential non-directory sources are the subject's own website and brochures. GNews hits consist of passing mentions in coverage about two women from Taiwan who attended the school and died in an unrelated bus crash . cab (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. -- zzuuzz 11:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Ghenadie Şonţu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No notability and most likely self-promotion Nergaal (talk) 10:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete no evidence of WP:N. JJL (talk) 16:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as apparent self-promotion. Biruitorul (talk) 17:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of visual arts-related deletions.--Lquilter (talk) 01:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per above - I notice the gallery website copies old WP version (eg of Rembrandt, with no acknowledgement. Johnbod (talk) 01:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Modernist (talk) 14:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Keep, but not because it should necessarily be kept, but because AfD is not a venue for content or editor disputes. Find the right venue. May I suggest WP:DR or WP:3O? Keeper | 76 18:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

List of cult and new religious movement researchers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The combination of strict inclusion criteria and strict sourcing criteria has led to an empty list i.e. a list without sourced entries. User:DoctorW insists on strict inclusion criteria which user:Andries opposes and user:Andries insists on strict sourcing criteria. Andries (talk) 09:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment- completing nom. No opinion given. Sting au Buzz Me... 11:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete and start over. Although this survived an AFD challenge only 2 1/2 months ago, this list would appear to have self-destructed and rendered itself moot owing to the circumstances described by the nominator. Since it clearly passed the last AFD challenge, maybe the best thing for it is to start over from scratch (which is why I'm suggesting delete this one outright, with no prejudice towards recreation later). 23skidoo (talk) 16:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • An alternative would be to start Knowledge (XXG):dispute resolution to have the inclusion criteria not so strict. But I am not going to do the effort. Andries (talk) 16:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • This version would be fine for me as a starting point but user:DoctorW disagrees and reverted too make the inclustion criteria stricter again. Andries (talk) 19:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete and start over. It seems that starting the article from the scratch is a good idea.--Larno Man (talk) 17:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep as a notable subject; but the list itself, and its terms of inclusion, may need to be re-examined. I agree that dispute resolution may be the way to go here. Terraxos (talk) 03:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep and solve editing dispute at correct venue. AfD can not fix editing disputes. Deleting the article and starting over will not magically solve anything. JERRY _contribs 04:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

List of Star Wars ship-mounted weapons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

In-universe plot summary and trivia. No assertion of real-world notability, nor any mention of real-world development, critical response, etc. Footnoted references only substantiate elements of plot summary, and all the reference materials listed provide only in-universe "history" and make-believe "technical information" -- again, nothing for an out-of-universe encyclopedic treatment. Most of the content appears simply to be original research and fan speculation. --EEMIV (talk) 09:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. TJ Spyke 09:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Weak delete I fully agree with the nomination, but I think that it would be possible to save this article by chopping out all the OR and using the various Star Wars handbooks and similar as references. I've tagged the article for rescue, but deleting the article as it stands would be no great loss. --Nick Dowling (talk) 10:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Wouldn't official Star Wars books count as primary sources? TJ Spyke 10:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment Possibly, but what else is available? If its not written in an in-universe style the article could be OK. --Nick Dowling (talk) 22:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 10:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Cheers, LAX 22:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Unencyclopaedic fancruft with no real-world notability. Terraxos (talk) 03:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep The article should be improved so that it is written from a less in-universe standpoint; for instance, the Special Effects aspects of these beam weapons. This has already been addressed in the section on lasers (I suppose the nominator hasn't bothered to read that far), where there is a mention of how Star Wars lasers are depicted differently from real-world lasers. As a matter of fact, two of these weapon types are dramatizations of real world devices currently in development, i.e. lasers and mass drivers. Does that answer the nom's concern about real-world development? The fictional weapons listed here are notable, both in the context of Sci-Fi and once again in SFX; Star Wars as a movie has made significant advances in special effects, most especially as regards depiction of space battles. IMO, the article needs rewriting (and perhaps renaming, dropping the "List of") to accent these aspects, not deletion. Freederick (talk) 13:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - The bit about discrepancies and whatnot is uncited original research. Can anyone cite a connection between real-world lasers and mass drivers? Did one influence the other? If anyone wants to write an article on the notable and verifiable topic of Special effects in Star Wars, then go for it. But this clump of material here? It's OR, speculation, and general cruft. --EEMIV (talk) 14:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - Unless notability can be established through multiple reliable sources. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Strong keep. Reliable sources might exist.</kidding> Delete as non-encyclopedic and not-even-potentially-encyclopedic. User:Dorftrottel 13:03, January 29, 2008
• Keep. Encyclopedic material that satisfies Knowledge (XXG):Lists. Article is well-organized and concerns verifiable elements of a notable fictional universe. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 18:21, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Where is that verification? --EEMIV (talk) 18:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Watch or read any of the mediums in which these ships appear. See also the article's reference section. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 18:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Books and movies are inappropriate primary sources that allow only for plot summary at best, original research at worst. The cited references, too, provide only in-universe material. This article wholly lacks reliable sources. --EEMIV (talk) 18:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
      • The fact remains that the article features published reliable sources. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 23:41, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
        • It does not feature one single third-party reliable secondary source. Not one. User:Dorftrottel 03:23, January 30, 2008
          • This source looks fairly reliable and is not about plot. Also, the History Channel had a special on Star Wars tech, which if memory serves me correct did address weapons on the space vehicles/stations and their weaponary. See here for more. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 03:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
            • The "The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, Revised Edition (Star Wars)" is not a third-party source by any stretch of imagination. You see, "third-party" doesn't mean it's not about the plot. It means it predominantly discusses things from a real world perspective, which this in-universe fan-oriented book does not. FWIW, your second example appears far more interesting. "through the eyes of cold hard science". Any chance to get a copy and evaluate it further? User:Dorftrottel 03:44, January 30, 2008
              • They tend to replay History Channel shows relatively frequently, and I believe you can order a copy. If you are unwilling to do so, then you may want to check with members in the Star Wars wikiproject to see if anyone has a copy and would be willing to use it as a source. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 03:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
                • Well, since you brought it up, why don't you do it? User:Dorftrottel 05:36, January 30, 2008
                  • I'm willing to keep an eye out myself for the special and I'll notify the Star Wars wikiproject of the discussion, but article improvement really should be a team effort. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 05:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete No real world context provided, fails WP:PLOT. This article is a derived work from the films and can not be released under GFPL. Taemyr (talk) 13:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable elements of a fictional universe, extremely doubtful reliable secondary sources have ever devoted significant coverage to anything or the list. Clear failure WP:NOT#PLOT since there is no real-world context. Doctorfluffy (talk) 21:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as this plot summary has such a heavy in universe perspective as to have little encyclopedic value. --Gavin Collins (talk) 15:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - it's not a plot summary. But it is a presentation of background material from a fictional universe. It's a derivative work and violates U.S. copyright law. The Transhumanist 22:05, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 02:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

BlackCat Anarchist Collective (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

non-notable group, now inactive, article even admits in the first line that the group is of limited importance - looks to me a bit like self-advertising, like a bulletin board post. Doesn't make the news when googled, just linked to by other protest groups. Rocklaw (talk)Rocklaw (talk) 08:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. —Rocklaw (talk) 08:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. No sources (refs are all links to organizations named in the article), none appear to exist online, and none are likely to show up, given that the organization is inactive. Zetawoof_(ζ) 12:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This article has been listed as an Anarchism Task Force article for deletion. —Skomorokh 13:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Weak keep. I've added a couple of real refs and removed those that don't mention this group.-gadfium 20:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Weak Keep, group is defunct but that doesn't diminish notability in a historical context. How notable is this group? Lord Metroid (talk) 22:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment:Doesn't seem notable at all, though I haven't tried searching too hard. This information may be best placed in an Anarchism in New Zealand article, in a subsection on contemporary anarchist activity. It suffers as it's own article. I've saved the text to my sandbox, should the Anarchist Task Force ever choose to use it for such a purpose.--Cast (talk) 01:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. While I'm sympathetic to their aims (and even know most of the admins of this group), they're of little importance even in New Zealand. Mostlyharmless (talk) 23:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of organizations deletions.--Lquilter (talk) 01:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. The sources in the article aren't independent and the organisation had very little impact on New Zealand during its brief life. Capitalistroadster (talk) 02:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. No real notability as demonstrated by coverage from reliable sources. Terraxos (talk) 03:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. But it would be good to have them mentioned in a wider article, as Cast suggests. --Helenalex (talk) 09:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. -- zzuuzz 11:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Saro (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

School organization which does not state assertion of notability. Google Search does not return any usable sources. seav (talk) 08:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete 5 Google hits, and two of them are to Friendster. Unimpressive for assertion of notability Doc Strange (talk) 11:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete nn, probably vanity. JJL (talk) 16:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. See related afd for other Philippine School orgs.--Lenticel 22:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. As per Lenticel's argument. Starczamora (talk) 02:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Canley (talk) 10:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Sapol News Bulletin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

News service not notable enough. A Google search does not return any usable info. seav (talk) 07:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete as nn - article fails WP:V. Sting au Buzz Me... 11:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Does a speedy apply here? No assertion of notability whatsoever. If this were an article on a person instead of a newspaper, it would have vanished already. DarkAudit (talk) 15:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy delete per nom and DA. --BritandBeyonce (talk) 09:48, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

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The result was keep. There are valid arguments put forth in good faith (and civil too! A sight for sore eyes in AfD-land:-) by both sides, specifically Mbilitatu and Lquilter. The article has been improved (read:tamed) since being tagged, resulting in a keep instead of a no consensus. Keeper | 76 18:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Donna Eden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Any article with extraordinary claims such as -born ability to literally see the body's energies needs really, really, strong sources. Corvus cornix_talk 07:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - per Corvus cornix and because it doesn't have any referenced statements of notability. — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 07:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - she has four books published, at least two of them by reputable publishers (Putnam and Penguin). The "extraordinary claim" you mention should obviously be attributed, but that's not a reason for deleting the entire article. Gatoclass (talk) 07:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - I agree that it certainly needs editing and improving - it's just the first stub. I am fairly new to writing articles, but based on the guidelines it does not seem to me that it deserves deletion ... she is well known in the energy medicine community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vazka (talk • contribs) 09:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Publication =/= automatically notability. Extraordinary claims, with reliable evidence or sources backing them, nor any sign of real-world or historic impact or influence. --Calton | Talk 10:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I guess it depends on whether or not you think publication by a reliable publisher constitutes coverage by "a secondary source which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." I'm inclined to think it does, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. Gatoclass (talk) 12:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - I am new to Wiki as a contributor, but my belief is that an article on Donna Eden is reasonable. I added a couple of citations where requested. To label the phrase born ability to see the body's energies as an extraordinary claim is itself subjective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbilitatu (talk • contribs) 10:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC) — Mbilitatu (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Mbilitatu, I believe that Knowledge (XXG):Fringe theories is appropriate here. --Lquilter (talk) 01:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Weak Keep. Can't say that I support her philosophy, but notability does appear do be demonstrated. WWGB (talk) 12:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. Appears notable enough given the number of books and links cited. Needs perhaps additional sourcing if there are any claims of concern, plus it needs to adhere to WP:BLP. I noticed the BLP banner wasn't included so I have added it which may spark additional improvements by members of the Bio WikiProject. 23skidoo (talk) 16:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. I see a lot of sources, but how many of them actually qualify as reliable? Not many, indeed probably none. The only source that's arguably reliable and independent of the subject is the Amazon bestsellers chart, and even if she's sold a lot of books, I'm not sure we can justify a biography based on that alone. This article also has serious problems with both neutrality and factual accuracy; I sincerely doubt that she really can 'see the body's energies' or 'correct imbalances in the body'. If it is kept, all that will need to be cleaned up. Terraxos (talk) 03:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Alternative healing is part of the New Age movement, which is not scientific of course, but that doesn't mean it isn't notable. We also have articles on Scientology, or Wicca, and I'm sure there are plenty of folks who think the ideas behind these movements are preposterous, but they are still regarded as notable phenomena. As to the particular claims you mention, as I've said the only problem I see with them is that they are unattributed. They have to be attributed, even if only to Eden herself. Gatoclass (talk) 04:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Those belief systems and movements are notable, but that doesn't mean that their claims are valid, of course. Attributing claims to sources is not the only hurdle; those also have to be reliable sources. Again, please see WP:FRINGE. --Lquilter (talk) 13:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

As you yourself said: "Eden's own website is a reliable source for her claims", so I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Gatoclass (talk) 20:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

• Question?. Again, I'm new to this, so please forgive my ignorance of the process. Are we not confusing two issues: notability and believability? I get the sense that many contributors do not believe in energy, energy medicine or the ability to see it. Fine. Is that the issue here? Donna Eden is well known in her field, but her field and the people who refer to her are not going to be mainstream scientists. I get that the sources have to be reliable, but it's not clear to me that folks understand the sources. Kripalu, Esalen and Omega are all well known alternative centers ... do we need to create pages for them and cite sources to justify that statement? That said ... I agree that the content of the article is too promotional for an encyclopedia. Is it policy to delete an article which is in need of improvement?--Mbilitatu (talk) 04:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note I cleaned up the content, isolated the bolder claims, added some qualifying language, and included a controversy section. --Mbilitatu (talk) 06:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • That looks better but I think you overdid it a tad, so I've toned it down a bit. Gatoclass (talk) 06:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. Appears to be notable in the field. FWIW, paranormal or miraculous claims or fringe beliefs do not need "stronger" sourcing than any other assertion of belief. Descriptions of the substance of a claim or the nature of a belief system are what we can look for. Reliable sources on these matters are those which reliably report what is believed; and statements by the believers are generally reliable on these matters, even if others find the beliefs unlikely. What is ultimately "true" or not is beyond our competence. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 15:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep This author is notable within their field as evidenced by the fact that they have a book with a high Amazon ranking, she meets all of the criteria for having a Knowledge (XXG) page. The page is also sourced and cited. No valid reason for deletion. - perfectblue (talk) 21:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - Marginal notability according to Knowledge (XXG) standards that rely on publications and particularly looking at WP:PROF for assessing influence of the work (this method would pick up influence within the New Age community insofar as the New Age community publishes). If notable, obviously the "ability" claims can be discussed as claims; Eden's own website is a reliable source for her claims -- claims being statements that one makes about oneself. But this still needs some work on clarity and to comply with style for WP:FRINGE.

• The basic ghits is 56,000. It's a common name, but the first 30 hits are all this Donna Eden, so I'll assume some google-juice. However, looking at the substance of the hits, these include primarily biographies of her for places/events where she's spoken (which are likely not "independent" sources for claims like "world's authority" or "world-renowned"; that's typical puffery for organizations trying to get people to come to an event), and a lot of bookstores with her books (remaindered, I note), and her LinkedIn page.
• Google News returns ZERO hits. That's really not good and indicates, to me, that some significant amount of the other hits are self-promotion. People who do lots of speaking & lecture tours, as Donna Eden does, rely on self-promotion and often have a lot of google hits, but you can usually see that it's a result of self-promotion by looking at Google News.
• Google scholar returns 50 hits, but a number of them are not clearly this Donna Eden -- on healthcare stats, opthalmology, high school guidance counseling. Works that are clearly this Donna Eden include the book Energy Medicine which was cited by 20; another related cite cited by 2; an Energy Psychology cited by 38; and about 25 other items only two of which were cited by anyone at all, and those two cited once and twice, respectively. Those 25 were largely not significant treatments, although many of them were references or quotes. I think that within the published New Age literature, this is marginal.
• The "world expert" claim btw is from a speaking engagement biography so it's really not correct to say that she "is" or "is recognized as"; she probably wrote that herself, as is common with speakers. That needs a reliable source, and news media is usually a good source for that sort of thing, but there are no news media sources for her.

Lquilter (talk) 13:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

• Reply - The standard for notabiliy is notability in a person's field.

• WP:PROF is for academics (i.e., professors). I disagree that the standards of WP:PROF would pick up influence within the New Age community insofar as the New Age community publishes.. The academic community, the community of professors, is not the only community that publishes and is not the community which is the arbiter of notability or truth. Requiring that a non-academic be assessed as notable within the academic papers seems non-neutral to me. In addition, although in common usage, applying the label 'New Age' is already applying the mainstream POV to her work. People in Energy Medicine would not refer to themselves by that label. From wiki New Age, Individuals who hold any of its beliefs may not identify with the name, and the name may be applied as a label by outsiders to anyone they consider inclined towards its world view.
• Within her field, I actually think a vibrant schedule of talks and classes is an indication of notability. The article does not rely on this, but filling public talk after talk or class after class is excruciatingly difficult unless a person has a widely recognized name.
• I agree that many of Donna Eden's Google hits are self promotion. But most of your argument to justify the statement that Donna Eden has Marginal notability according to Knowledge (XXG) standards seems to be based on Google hits. If you will take a look at Talk:Donna Eden, you will see my comments about the sources used in the article. Those sources have tons of Google hits, so by the same standard, I believe the article sources from reliable sources.
• That said, the point you bring up about people writing their own glorious biographical statement ... that's a good point. It would be good to back up that claim better.
• Yes, the news media is not interested in Donna Eden. In general, Energy medicine does not make the news. If you Google news 'Paris Hilton' you get 4,933 hits. If you Google news 'acupuncture', you get 719 hits. If you Google news 'energy medicine', you get 26 hits. Donna Eden is notable in a field that has largely been ignored in the western world. Paris Hilton is famous. Donna Eden is not famous, but from WP:Notability, notability is distinct from "fame".
• You did not comment on her amazon ranking. The Energy Medicine book is currently #2 in the Energy Healing category, #3 in Health Mind and Body authors, and #11 in New Age. This is a book that was published in 1999, so those positions are not the result of a manipulation.--Mbilitatu (talk) 17:54, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 07:02, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Angel Cohn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:BIO. No notable sources. The television source does not lead to the person mentioned in the article. Delete Undeath (talk) 06:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Weak Delete has certainly done many reviews but most seem to be online/blog-style and no evidence of WP:N. JJL (talk) 16:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Movie reviews are not inherently notable, and apart from that this person has no claim to notability. Terraxos (talk) 03:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 00:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Beowulf (Los Angeles band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:MUSIC. The link for the bassist leads to a soccer coach, not a band member too. Delete Undeath (talk) 06:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Gatoclass (talk) 07:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete doesn't assert notability, fails WP:MUSIC Doc Strange (talk) 08:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Non-notable at WP:MUSIC. SingCal 22:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Religious Science Youth Movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Non-notable group. ~Enviroboy_Contribs - 06:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete Fails WP:NOTABILITY. No sources other than it's own site.Undeath (talk) 06:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Merge - Make it a subsection of Religious Science, doesn't pass WP:NOT on its own. Vrac (talk) 07:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - actually, the Religious Science article itself seems to have nothing but self references, and the sources for the inventor of the movement, Ernest Holmes, are also poor. I have to ask myself whether any of these articles pass the notability test. Gatoclass (talk) 07:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete: per WP:NOTE, lack of any independent citations to establish notability. Hrafn_Stalk 11:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, fails WP:N, the group's own site does not satisfy WP:RS. meshach (talk) 16:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete — Knowledge (XXG) doesn't need to monitor what teenagers do on their religious camps... — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 03:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 06:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Cyclestyle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unverifiable vanispamcruftisement. A google search for the subject and it's inventor turns up nothing. MER-C 06:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - no evidence of notability. Gatoclass (talk) 07:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Strong delete. I'm not convinced Jumpstyle is notable, let alone this. Terraxos (talk) 02:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Snow Keep and nom withdrawn. Non-admin closure by --Lenticel 07:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

:Francis Mugavero (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD) The article doesn't state the notability of Francis Mugavero, and violates WP:NOTE as well as WP:VERIFY. Francis Mugavero apparently only has 493 hits on Google and 454 on Yahoo! . — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 06:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - The office is notable, as the first Italian-American bishop of Brooklyn has additional notability, and his tenure was quite long. Vrac (talk) 06:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - This is ridiculous!! User:Cuyler91093 apparently did not even read the article or he/she would have known that Mugavero was Bishop of one of the largest dioceses in the United States. There are five or six links provided how did the article violate WP:VERIFY. Absolutely ridiculous!! Askedandanswered (talk) 06:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you should explain some of the terminology more. I, personally, am not religious, and I am not familiar with some of the terms. I apologize if I have offended you, but you need to explain that being a bishop of that particular diocese is important. Again, I apologize, and hope that you define terms a bit more. — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 06:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I retract this nomination, as I don't believe it's necessary to go through with this. Upon reading wikilinks, he sounds important. Just note that I added some notability to the page, and I fixed a wikilink that had parentheses in it. I'm sorry for any trouble I may have caused. — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• I change my vote to Keep. With a little more editing, this page can be more notable. Askedandanswered, I answered your talk page, and I hope you're not too offended. I apologize to everybody about this. — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 06:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Redirect to Mukilteo School District. Camaron | Chris (talk) 17:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Olympic View Middle School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable middle school. Tavix (talk) 05:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Redirect to Mukilteo School District. GNews searches show no evidence of notability, just trivial mentions using the school's location as a point of reference and one article about how it was shut down by an e-mail threat in 2005 . cab (talk) 05:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. cab (talk) 05:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Redirect to Mukilteo School District per CaliforniaAliBaba. The school itself is not notable and doesn't assert any notability, but the district seems to. — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 06:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. —Camaron | Chris (talk) 12:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Redirect per above unless evidence of notability is provided. Terraxos (talk) 02:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was merge into an yet to be discussed article. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 00:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Oneesama (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Prod was opposed, nomination is next step. Article, IMO, fails WP:N and WP:RS (lack of independent and reliable sources), and raises concerns about WP:OR (original research/analysis yielding an opinion), WP:NOT (Knowledge (XXG) is not a primary source, nor a usage guide) and WP:SOAP (opinion piece with numerous subjective claims that are not sourced). Opposition to prod states that article reaches beyond dictionary definition, but there really is little more IMO that an encyclopedic article on "Oneesama" can address beyond a clear-cut definition without requiring an analysis and, by extension, sources for such analysis. Roehl Sybing (talk) 04:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I removed the unsourced original research from the article which leaves very little. Edward321 (talk) 05:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Soft redirect to Wiktionary. This is more of a dictionary entry than an encyclopedic entry to me. If there are other pages named "oneesan" or "oneechan" or "oneesama", etc. then we could make this into a redirect. However, I don't see anything of the sort when I search, so I say we soft redirect this page. — Cuyler91093 - Соитяівцтіоиѕ 06:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• merge to Japanese honorifics Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 16:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Transwiki to Wiktionary. This is the perfect entry for there, but lacks enough substance to be an article here. ···日本穣 18:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment How about creating an article on Japanese kinship terms and merging it there? It can include familiar and honorific forms for various words as well as descriptions of when they are used. Fg2 (talk) 20:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Would that sort of article be notable in the Japanese Knowledge (XXG)? If so, that might be fine. However, I don't see how that kind of article dealing with any culture (even if we changed it to kinship terms in English-speaking culture) would be notable or would avoid WP:NOT concerns (Knowledge (XXG) is not a usage guide). --Roehl Sybing (talk) 21:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
    • An article on an aspect of a language isn't usage guide, no more than the article on Japanese honorifics is. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
      • That does not adequately answer the question I posed. --Roehl Sybing (talk) 00:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Fg2: I was actually contemplating expanding a different direction, documenting the soeur system from Maria-sama ga Miteru and attempts to reproduce it in real life. Aside from seeing message boards and LJ communities dedicated to it, though, I've not yet found
• Merge to Japanese honorifics, possibly copy to Wiktionary as well. Not notable enough as a term in its own right. Terraxos (talk) 02:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Merge to Japanese titles. The word is just a variation of 姉/big sister when talking about or speaking to. Oda Mari (talk) 07:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Merge per as per Terraxos, Oda Mari and Chris (クリス • フィッチ) --Sin Harvest (talk) 08:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep or merge. as others have mentioned, this has become a stock element of areas like galges, moe, and so on. Cliche, convention, or whatever you want to call it, it's not 'just' a random honorific or title. --Gwern (contribs) 21:04 30 January 2008 (GMT)
• Merge. An individual page are nonsense without another related terms in the same page. Keep is impossible. Zerokitsune (talk) 03:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete both. -- zzuuzz 11:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Megacorp Weapons Company (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Gamecruft. No secondary sources or assertion of out-of-game notability. Contested PROD, which lasted all of 2 minutes before being deproded by author with no explanation. Sigh. eaolson (talk) 04:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Also nominating for the same reason:

• Starship Phoenix

• Delete both per nom Gatoclass (talk) 07:55, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete both: gamecruft with no real-world notability. Terraxos (talk) 02:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. Someoneanother 18:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete as there does not appear to be any independant notability. Slavlin (talk) 00:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 00:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Larry Cutrone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable "American Musician/Comedian/Writer." Claim to notability seems to be that one of his screenplays is "currently awaiting a bidding option from HBO." Never been in a major band and once hosted a local cable TV show. Fails both WP:BIO and WP:MUSIC. Redfarmer (talk) 00:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete, best claim of notability is being a radio personality, but I don't think that's enough; cites no independent sources. NawlinWiki (talk) 19:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JERRY _contribs 04:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JERRY _contribs 04:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete No evidence of sufficient notability. Ice Cold Beer (talk) 04:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:BIO and WP:MUSIC Doc Strange (talk) 06:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 06:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The Caye Caulker Times (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article fails WP:NOTABILITY. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to Caye Caulker Times. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article. Hu12 (talk) 03:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Strong Weak Delete Not quite a delete, but more than a weak delete. Maybe there needs to be more contribution to the article, but personally, I don't see how far it can go. It seems non-notable, and there has only been one contributer who mostly edits that page, but has a few others. —Signed by KoЯnfan71 _{Sign Here!} 03:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. Sorry. Not likely to be notable if it was just founded this month. No Google hits except two issues of itself. (google web, google books or google news). --Coppertwig (talk) 20:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. Village papers are almost certainly not notable, but particularly not those that have only just been founded. (And :) at Kornfan's 'Strong Weak' vote above.) Terraxos (talk) 02:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Keep Non-Admin Closure. Tiddly-Tom 07:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Tom Reiss (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No sourcing; not totally convinced on his notability. Nominating for AFD review. Lawrence § t/e 03:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - Writer for the New Yorker, publisher of multiple books, at least one of which sold well...I think he passes WP:NOT. Perhaps the cause would be better served by adding cite tags to the article. Vrac (talk) 06:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - agree with rationale of Vrac. SidP (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of academics & educators deletions.--Lquilter (talk) 01:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. His book, 'The Orientalist', received a fair amount of coverage from reliable sources, and he seems fairly notable himself. The article could use better sourcing, though. Terraxos (talk) 02:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Wizardman 01:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

UFO sightings in Libya (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article asserts itself as a "list" however the sole item on the "list" is a mention with a link to an article on the alleged UFO sighter. I'd have said merge, but there is no substance to the article. There doesn't appear to have been any more on the 'list' in the page's history either. Travellingcari (talk) 03:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete According to Wiktionary, a list is "a register or roll of paper consisting of an enumeration or compilation of a set of possible items." I find this list to be lacking a bit, seeing as it only has one thing on it. I'd say either delete or go out to Libya and find some UFOs. The delete sounds a bit quicker though. —Signed by KoЯnfan71 _{Sign Here!} 04:01, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete doesn't assert notability (why are UFO sightings in Libya more notable than anywhere else in Africa?) Doc Strange (talk) 06:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Poorly referenced nonsense. Does not pass WP:N or WP:V. --Nick Dowling (talk) 22:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment This is a sub-article of List of UFO Sightings, which breaks out sightings by country in summary style. I'm personally not entirely sure that's the best way to organize it, but if there are concerns of the granularity of the organization of the suite of articles, perhaps better than an AfD would be to raise the concerns on the parent article's talk page. (I suspect merging this into UFO sightings in Africa would be a good idea, but I've no horse in this race.) —Quasirandom (talk) 00:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Merge to UFO sightings in Africa per above, which is what I instantly thought when I saw the article. Grutness...wha? 00:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete and merge into either Carmelo Papotto (if that article survives its own AFD) or List of UFO sightings. Terraxos (talk) 02:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. -- zzuuzz 11:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Don't Shoot the Messenger Demo EP (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I declined the A7, because it doesn't apply to music. Added PROD, but article creator put a {{hangon}} tag. I'll WP:AGF and take that as a deletion of the PROD. So, here we go...

As is, it fails WP:MUSIC... horribly. Jauerback/_dude. 03:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete, you'll note that it appears the band has been Speedied. The album also fails WP:MUSIC. Redfarmer (talk) 03:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Band fails WP:MUSIC, so their album does too. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 03:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. If the band isn't notable enough for an article, their self-published, unsigned, less-than-2000-copies-sold demo album certainly isn't. eaolson (talk) 04:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. A7 for bands really should be altered to include this. BLACKKITE 11:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete If the band was speedied, it's back. But I think demo's are inherently unnotable, even more so for unsigned bands. Dchall1 (talk) 21:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was keep. --Bongwarrior (talk) 00:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Michelle Leonard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This one's making me think WP:HOAX. Says she was signed to EMI but their website has never heard of her. Says she is currently signed to Universal Music Publishing but their website has never heard of her. Claims she wrote forty songs between 2006 and 2007 that all charted. This sounds really bogus.... Redfarmer (talk) 02:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete Nom's evidence shows that this is not at all a notable artist. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 03:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:HEY; article has been considerably rewritten and now illustrates notability quite clearly. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 18:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - Not a hoax, I actually found her MySpace site here and not a bad voice either. However, MySpace and Blog to not make for notability. Let’s call her claims on the article page an exaggeration of success. Shoessss |  Chat  03:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Keep - Ahh .Wageless you have put us all to shame. Change to Keep. Shoessss |  Chat  00:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. —Signed by KoЯnfan71 _{Sign Here!} 03:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. AllMusic confirms some of the collaborations, but just writing songs isn't notability, as heady as the experience may be. --Dhartung | Talk 07:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

*Delete not a hoax, but there's a mix between total lies and an article for a NN artist. Fails WP:MUSIC. Proclaims to have 40 songs charted by end of 2007. Well if she did, she would meet WP:N no problem, but Billboard brings up absolutely no artist page or chart positions Doc Strange (talk) 18:47, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep per The Heymann Standard. it's been rewritten, and with the new citations, it meets WP:N now Doc Strange (talk) 00:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. This article clearly has huge problems and I don't know how's best to tackle those problems. However, there is evidence that Michelle Leonard is a notable subject. I took one claim on the page, that she co-wrote a song entitled "Out of Tears", released by Hanna Pakarinen. That claim appears true (multiple Ghits shows Leonard as co-writer on the song). The song does not appear to have been released as a single, but the album it's on, Stronger, made #2 in Finland. Other songs on the page also appear to have been co-written by her and to have been on charting releases. Songwriting is a valid basis for notability if the songs written have been sufficiently successful. Simply searching Billboard isn't going to tell us much given that the material she's been writing has generally been recorded by other artists and has been charting in Europe, not the US. Bondegezou (talk) 11:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment. OK, here's a better example. The page claims she co-wrote a song entitled "Don't Let It Get You Down" by Mike Leon Grosch. I've found confirmation of that and that the song made #2 in Switzerland and #6 in Austria. Search a Swiss chart site rather than Billboard and you get plenty of evidence of a successful songwriting career. Bondegezou (talk) 11:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment contd. I've done a fair amount of clean-up on this page. The more I look, the more I am surprised that previous editors thought this page was a hoax and were unable to verify the information contained. A few Knowledge (XXG) and Google searches demonstrate that Leonard has written multiple songs for multiple charting artists and is clearly notable under WP:MUSIC. Bondegezou (talk) 12:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Me again... OK, I've re-written the article from top to bottom. It could still do with more work, but it now has citations and links to other Knowledge (XXG) articles. There are now multiple examples of songs written or co-written by Leonard and being released on charting albums, and a few out as singles. This includes extensive work on an Estonian #1 album (Vanilla Ninja's Love is War, also top 20 in Germany); significant work on a Finnish #1 album (My Winter Storm from Tarja Turunen); and co-writing a Swiss #2 single (Mike Leon Grosch's "Don't Let It Get You Down", from the album Absolute that went #2 in Germany). She is signed to Universal Music Publishing. Nearly everything in the original article was true, as far as I can check. This is not an example of WP:HOAX or WP:BOLLOCKS, but simply of poor formatting and the non-Anglophone bias inherent in Knowledge (XXG). This also demonstrates many of the problems with the AfD process. Bondegezou (talk) 16:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. The article supplies useful information about someone who is demonstrably a notable, successful European songwriter. Bondegezou has made a laudable first pass at necessary morphings.Wageless (talk) 17:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • What went wrong? Why was a page by someone who clearly is notable mistaken for a hoax or that of a non-notable musician? I think it can be useful to look at what's gone wrong in a case like this so that we can learn for the future. Obviously, the page originally had very poor formatting and no citations, so it was difficult to read. Redfarmer then checked and didn't find Leonard listed by Universal Music Publishing, but he checked the US site and she is listed by the German site. Likewise, Doc Strange checked Billboard, i.e. the US charts, when her material has charted in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Finland and Estonia. Moreover, as a songwriter, the material was released under the names of the recording artists and not hers. I would humbly suggest that editors remember to look beyond poor formatting and remember to look beyond US web sources before deciding how to argue in an AfD. Bondegezou (talk) 18:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Yes, and "Assume Good Faith" isn't a bad notion either. Thanks Bondegezou for your sleuthage.Wageless (talk) 22:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
      • I don't think it's an Anglophone bias as much as it is a knee-jerk non-notable bias. Nothing personal intended at Redfarmer, but too many times I see articles shot down in flames within mere minutes of article creation, often times because the original author simply didn't know policies. -- RoninBK _{T C} 01:35, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. This article has drastically improved and now clearly demonstrates notability. Ursasapien (talk) 08:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 06:27, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Mike Burnett (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable rugby player. Very short article admits he has yet to make his first professional debut. Fails WP:BIO criteria for athletes. Redfarmer (talk) 02:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. We can bring it back if he gets to be more notable. —Signed by KoЯnfan71 _{Sign Here!} 03:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable. In fact, this is practically speedy-delete material. Terraxos (talk) 02:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Hold will look into the player. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 04:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete, doesn't look like there should be a problem if you want to create a redirect over this deleted article as well. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 04:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Open Season (Emerson Drive album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Until You Walk the Tracks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Neither of these albums seems to be notable in any way; a search for reliable sources turned up none. The sources provided aren't reliable and appear to be fansites. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• I can only find one reliable source that the name Until You Walk the Tracks exists (), but I can't find any reliable sources proving the track list. Redirect until more sources are found. --Caldorwards4 (talk) 03:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete both unless more reliable sources are provided. Terraxos (talk) 02:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was keep. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 02:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Power of the Dollar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Doesn't seem to be a notable bootleg album. Only sources are trivial in nature. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete – Have to agree. An album that has never been release since it was originally cut in 2000. It is worth no more than the mention it has already received in Knowledge (XXG) as shown here . Shoessss |  Chat  02:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per Shoessss. —Signed by KoЯnfan71 _{Sign Here!} 03:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - how does one establish what a "notable bootleg" album is? I would have thought any album by a notable musician would be inherently notable, but perhaps that is not the case. Gatoclass (talk) 08:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. The idea that an unreleased album with three released singles (per MTV) is not notable because it wasn't released (detail that is at best a technicality) is somewhat baffling, especially when they form the backstory to one of the decade's best-selling artists. Reviews of the actual album, including track listings, do exist from reliable sources, like this one. hateless 08:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep I'm tend to have pretty rigorous standards when it comes to bootlegs/mixtapes. I've had around 200 mixtapes deleted in Category:Mixtape albums through PRODs and AfDs, but this is the case of a notable bootleg. Review sites are certainly not trivial in nature and unlike this album, most bootlegs can't expand from a track list. This can definitely expand into a more comprehensive article. Spellcast (talk) 12:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - not a bootleg or mixtape by any stretch; numerous non-trivial mentions in dead tree sources such as ISBNs 0879307595, 1841956155, 0743201698, 1841958603 and 097677352X. east.718 at 23:04, January 27, 2008
• Keep. Notable album by a notable musician, even if it is a bootleg. Terraxos (talk) 02:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Strong Keep. Album had several singles released that received attention from MTV and the radio before it was shelved, partly due to the artist's highly publicized shooting. In addition, a promotional EP containing 5 songs from the album WAS commercially released. If this isn't a "notable bootleg album", nothing is. Swiffy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 21:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
• Strong Keep "Doesn't seem to be a notable bootleg album" is a nonargument and the AMG review (for instance) is a nontrivial source.P4k (talk) 22:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was delete The Drought Is Over Pt. 4, keep Da Drought 3. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 04:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Da Drought 3 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The Drought Is Over Pt. 4 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Don't seem to be notable mixtapes; the only sources on the former don't seem very reliable. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note Given that notability for Da Drought 3 has been proven, I am removing it from this nomination. However, I am still keeping the nom open for further discussion on the other album. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 21:55, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep – Sorry, have to disagree on this one. The Village Voice has two articles – The Boston Globe reviewed and lastly Billboard does have a brief mention all shown here . In addition, any album that generates as many hits on plain old Google as shown here is impressive. Shoessss |  Chat  02:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• None of those news searches seem to warrant significant coverage -- the Village Voice is just one paragraph at the most, as is the Boston Globe; the Billboard ref is even shorter. Almost all of the GHits seem to be lyrics, tabs, or download sites. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 03:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Let me begin by apologizing to the editors that will read this. Yes, I am on my soapbox. Knowledge (XXG) is developing into be an encyclopedia. As an encyclopedia, its purpose is to help individuals find information and facts, that are verifiable and reliable, on subjects such as; locations – people – music – books –etc –etc. What constitutes notable and significant is extremely WP:POV as this discussion shows. What is notable for me is not necessarily considered notable by another. However, should we be prevented from providing that information because some think that it is not significant enough? Is not the basic concept and mandate of Knowledge (XXG) to provide information? I would rather error on the side of providing information, since we are not limited by how much paper we use, than to discard knowledge because some may think the sources provided are insignificant. However, when creditable – verifiable and reliable sources are provided, they should not be dismissed as insignificant especially when the sources are Village Voice – The Boston Globe and Billboard. Thanks for listening everyone, back to real life. Shoessss |  Chat  03:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - Keep Da Drought 3 because it was listed on Rolling Stone's "Top 50 Albums of 2007" (quite impressive for a mixtape) and it has a professional review from Pitchfork Media. I'm not sure about The Drought Is Over Pt. 4 at the moment. Spellcast (talk) 13:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete The Drought Is Over Pt. 4 due to very little notability and mainstream media coverage; keep Da Drought 3. It's received three writeups in The Village Voice, two in The Boston Globe (Newsbank ID 11A53AF7F63B3D60 and this) and two in Pitchfork, as well as various mentions in The Washington Post, Star Tribune, and Michigan Daily, Times Record News (Wichita TX). It made Rolling Stone's top 50 albums of the year and also won runner-up in its category at the Ozone Awards. east.718 at 20:49, January 27, 2008
• Delete The Drought Is Over Pt. 4 as lacking notability established by reliable sources. Terraxos (talk) 02:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete — Not an encyclopaedic topic. It contains more the titles of his songs than actual information in the article. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 02:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. -- zzuuzz 11:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Fuckin’ Backstabber/Soul Intent (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Doesn't seem to be a notable demo tape; fails WP:RS. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete – Only hits were Knowledge (XXG) and mirror sites with a few blogs thrown in for good measure. It’s a shame, some people spent some time working the article. Shoessss |  Chat  02:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete I agree that there seemed to be quite a bit of work in this article. But, I have to say that it seems non-notable and does fail on sources. It also seems like a bit of an excuse to use the "f-word" a lot. —Signed by KoЯnfan71 _{Sign Here!} 03:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Indeed, what Korn said. س (talk) 06:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete With no prejudice to being recreated with more reliable sources. Spellcast (talk) 13:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. -- zzuuzz 11:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Soul Intent (album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable demo tape; fails WP:MUSIC. This quote says it all: "The songs and the track listing have not been leaked to the internet yet". Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete I agree that this is non-notable, but if we just went off of "The songs and the track listing have not been leaked to the internet yet," then we should bring up Steppin' onto the Scene for deletion too. —Signed by KoЯnfan71 _{Sign Here!} 03:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete and Redirect Very well, however I would recommend this be merged to Soul Intent. Hpfan9374 (talk) 06:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete It doesn't seem like much can be written about the album at the moment. It surely deserves a mention in the main article though. No prejudice to it being recreated with reliable sources and comprehensive info. Spellcast (talk) 13:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete and Redirect to Soul Intent along the other demos Udonknome (talk) 14:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was redirect. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 05:05, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Earl Carter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable musician, fails WP:MUSIC with no significant secondary source coverage. Redfarmer (talk) 02:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete A check of All Music Guide shows that his two albums were self released. No proof can be found that he played for any other notable musicians; otherwise I might !vote for a weak keep. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Turn back into a redirect Mgiganteus1 (talk) 13:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Is this Buddy Carter's real name? I'm confused. Redfarmer (talk) 14:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes. This biography lists his name as Earl L. 'Buddy' Carter: Terraxos (talk) 02:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Buddy Carter is William (son of Jimmy Carter), according to the article. Or is there a Jazz Buddy Carter I'm unaware of? Totnesmartin (talk) 14:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The Buddy Carter article was originally about "William Carter", but was altered to be about "Earl Carter", and the redirect was then created by a bot. The article subject has since been changed back to William Carter. If the Earl Carter article is deleted, it should not be reverted back to a redirect. jwillbur 01:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Turn back into a redirect per Mgiganteus1 above. The musician does not appear to be notable, but the redirect is worth keeping as the real name of a (somewhat) notable person. Terraxos (talk) 02:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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The result was Delete. -- zzuuzz 11:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

In My Ghetto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article seems to be about a bootleg album by Akon. Fails WP:MUSIC. Admc2006 (talk) 01:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. I know it is a bootleg, but so was Power of the Dollar by 50 Cent. And that album has its own article. Both In My Ghetto & Power of the Dollar were bootlegs, but that means they were still released digitally. Rappingwonders (talk) 01:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC) Per the fact that these types of albums aren't notable, I change my vote to delete. Rappingwonders (talk) 02:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. From WP:MUSIC: Demos, mixtapes, bootlegs and promo-only records are in general not notable. Also, I disagree with Rappingwonders per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. -- ShinmaWa 02:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, bootlegs are generally not notable. This one seems to not have any reliable sources. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 02:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. If bootlegs, mixtapes and demo tapes aren't notable, the following articles should also be nominated for deletion:
• Dedication 2
• Da Drought 3
• The Drought Is Over Pt. 4
• Soul Intent (album)
• Fuckin’ Backstabber/Soul Intent
• Power of the Dollar