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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:51, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Orobius (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Article about a literary figure, based on the Deipnosophistae, but written like a historical fact. Any historians here? Please take care of it. Ben Ben (talk) 23:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Keep. Orobius or Orbius appears to have been a historical figure. He's mentioned in the very context that Athenaeus reports in the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica. Simply because the Deipnosophistae is a work of literature doesn't mean that it doesn't describe real persons or events. This article may benefit from a rewrite, and if possible in-line citations, or at least multiple sources. But we don't delete articles simply because they need to be improved. P Aculeius (talk) 00:23, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
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Ferguson, Hellenistic Athens 445 with n. 1 (whence Pritchett's "Lucius") makes it look as though there's no intended identification of this figure and Broughton's Lucius, but I don't have access to Magistrates, so I can't tell if he addresses the same evidence.  davidiad { t } 18:17, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep: not a literary but a historical figure. The identification with "Lucius Orbius" agrees with the footnote in the new edition of the Deipnosophists by S. D. Olson (vol. 2 p. 529 note 162), who says "Lucius Orbius, a distinguished Roman resident of Delos", but no references. I haven't looked further at the possible sources for this. Andrew Dalby 18:22, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Footnote: Ben Ben may well have been surprised, because the Deipnosophists is generally described as a fictional dialogue. Yes, that is how it is structured. But this structure serves as a vehicle for the author's historical knowledge, which is wide-ranging and usually accurate. Andrew Dalby 20:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Close and keep Thank you for your explanation. Even if nobody attempted to improve the article I step back from wanting it deleted. EOD for me. --Ben Ben (talk) 21:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 05:47, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Juan González (Cosmos Footballer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. – Michael (talk) 23:29, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 05:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Division insignia of the United States Army (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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As per Category:Knowledge image galleries, Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Strategic Air Command Group and Wing emblems gallery, and Knowledge:Articles_for_deletion/Field Army insignia of the United States Army this article is an image gallery that should actually reside on Commons. The appropriate gallery has been created at http://commons.wikimedia.org/Division_insignia_of_the_United_States_Army. Thus this article has been listed for deletion. Buckshot06 (talk) 21:56, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: see also WP:Galleries. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Withdrawn by Nominator: Starting this series of deletion discussions, I believed I was acting in accordance with the WP guidelines on image galleries. It appears that community consensus may not match the actual wording of the guidelines, and this deletion debate is turning into a policy discussion. Thus I withdraw the nomination, without prejudicing my right to renominate this article for deletion at a later date. Buckshot06 (talk) 02:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
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Note the Commons gallery is at 'Strategic Air Command Emblems'. The approved way of linking Commons galleries is through the tag/link box which can be inserted anywhere in an article. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:18, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
What is that? Where does it say to do that? The only way I know to link to commons is like commons:Strategic Air Command Emblems but it is not working in redirection pages, and the commons page does not come up on a wikipedia search. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:23, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
You may not be aware thus of things like
Buckshot06 (talk) 09:45, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh that thing. Not relevant for something like this. The procedures say that the deleted page should have been replaced soft links, but this was not done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Proposal I hadn't seen the AFD on the Corps insignia page or I would have piped up there. I had the idea awhile ago to convert these pages more into a list-format, with the description and history of each emblem listed on a table. see this example. I just got as far as one image example in that table, but it occurs to me that these pages would be the appropriate place for the heraldry information for the insignia. —Ed! 11:08, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Withdrawn see above Buckshot06 (talk) 02:01, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 05:52, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

R.D. Peoples (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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After I went through this article to see what was really there it became clear that there was nothing there. The main contributor is a fan whose fansite (a facebook site I removed along the way) was used as a "reference"--the other references are of a kind. We're talking about a person who's supposedly a famous rapper and martial artist et cetera--but these are all claims that aren't verified properly. Drmies (talk) 21:46, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) czar · · 23:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Jessica Nigri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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The coverage in Google News may look impressive, but none of seems to be from reliable sources--like, eh, print media. This person is not covered enough to warrant an article in an encyclopedia, albeit an online encyclopedia. Drmies (talk) 21:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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  • Delete as per nom Robert McClenon (talk) 22:42, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment. Well... you don't have to be covered in print media to really be considered notable as long as the websites that have given her coverage are considered to be reliable. The big thing here is that while I've seen reliable sites mention her, they're pretty much posting galleries of her work. While she's pretty much known for cosplaying (and looking freaking hot while doing so), we still need more in-depth coverage, which is what I'm not entirely seeing here. It's sort of a borderline thing here. Since she's really received the most coverage for her winning the contest to portray Starling, there might be merit in creating a subsection in the article that mentions her and redirect to there. I'm thinking that it would be best served as a section named "Marketing and promotion" and say something along the lines of "In 2012 the company created a contest to choose a model to portray Juliet Starling at conventions. Jessica Nigiri, known for her detailed cosplay of characters from games, comics, and shows such as Gears of War and Pokemon, was named the winner and portrayed Starling at several conventions that same year." Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 05:27, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep. Btw: print media are dying. (But even then for example Complex and PSOM are print media alright.) --Niemti (talk) 06:31, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep - I see coverage in multiple RSes. Looks to me like it meets WP:GNG. May never reach FA status, but it meets the minimum inclusion criteria. At worst it should me merged into Lollipop Chainsaw, not deleted. -Thibbs (talk) 13:18, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Speaking of which, Juliet Starling also deserves her own article. --Niemti (talk) 13:30, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Which one of those websites are deemed reliable, besides, as pointed out above, Complex? Drmies (talk) 01:58, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Of the ones cited in the article I see GameZone, Official PlayStation Magazine, and Kotaku which are all listed as reliable at WP:VG/RS. There are other sources like this from Destructoid (written by Destructoid's associate editor). I haven't really done any searching beyond that, but the minimum inclusion criterion is coverage in multiple RSes and it seems we have that here. Even if deletion is off the table, anybody could propose a merge on the talk page or at WP:PM. -Thibbs (talk) 05:14, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Weak keep - lots of mentions in possibly reliable sources. Possibly being overly inclusionist here, because problematic IMO is that there seems to be very little biographical information available; even her date of birth in the first line is unsourced. AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 07:38, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
OPSM, not PSOM OPM. Birth date: --Niemti (talk) 10:08, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I guess its just hard to tell, considering you still haven't given an actual reason why... Sergecross73 msg me 13:08, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
  • To expand on what Sergecross73 is saying, I think it would be good to address the idea that it fails to meet notability requirements despite the fact pointed out above that the article is supported by multiple apparently reliable 3rd party sources. For many that's the definition of notability. -Thibbs (talk) 14:14, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Lots of people have passing mentions or small articles about them in third party sources. It doesn't automatically equal notability, especially when it comes to a BLP. Gamaliel (talk) 18:48, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep I'm familiar enough with her without giving a damn about cosplay (almost to the point of disdain toward it) that I'd call her notable. Also a girl as cute as that should be everywhere. Only mostly joking. Also I don't really Knowledge so I hope I did the formatting on this right the first time...(Edit: I did not.) 67.163.142.8 (talk) 23:01, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Courcelles 00:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Jpegx (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Jpegx is a computer application that appears to have little significance. The organisation that created it appears to be non existent now. There is minimal information about Jpegx in the article with no links of significance.

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The result was delete. Courcelles 00:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Cerina da Graça (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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There are zero secondary sources in the article to establish notability, I couldn't find any through a Google search, and the editor who created the article has not responded to my queries. Nightscream (talk) 03:15, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Deadbeef 23:31, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ensignbus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I can find no more than a passing reference to this company in independent secondary sources, otherwise only in-house sites and self-published fan sites. Fails WP:GNG. Charles (talk) 21:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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  • Speedy Keep as does meet WP:GNG, Instead of nominating it why not WP:FIXIT? ..... -
→Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 22:46, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • The subject is not notable because you say it is. Significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources needs to be found and perhaps will be. This article was recreated from a redirect in 2007, without any independent sources, by an editor who is now banned. As far as I can see it never has had any reliable secondary sources since then although it has been changed by multiple editors. It is the responsibility of those who add material to provide references for it per WP:BURDEN. It is no good coming out with the kneejerk response "so fix it" when an editor finally decides enough is enough and puts it up for deletion.--Charles (talk) 12:36, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment. I don't presently have access to any sources or time to find them, but given the notability of this company among enthusiasts I would be surprised if reliable sources don't exist. Worth noting is that they won "top independent operator of the year" for 2012 at the UK Bus Awards , which looks to be taken seriously by the major players in the industry although I don't know anything else about those awards. Thryduulf (talk) 01:39, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Comment  The first click I made to look for sources was to click on the "news" link above.  I found a 2005 article in Time magazine.  It is a short article, but the wp:notability shown by the article is indisputable.  I checked back on the Google news page and the preceding hit is from BBC News.  The snippet states, "Essex-based bus dealer Ensignbus is witnessing a surge of interest from prospective owners. The company has scores of Routemasters parked up at its site..."  These are not, in the words of the nomination, "passing references", in-house sites, or fan sites.  Unscintillating (talk) 01:51, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I too checked out the news hits but found no articles which are actually about the company. They only mention the company in passing as they write about Routemaster sales or, more recently, energy efficient buses.--Charles (talk) 12:40, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
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  • Keep Looking through WP:GNG guidelines suggest that the article is notable, so shouldn't be deleted. It is also a part of London's transport history, so I beg to differ why this would want to be deleted just because one person wants it deleted. the magic... 07:18, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
  • "just because one person wants it deleted" - Least I'm not the only one to notice! -
→Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 07:28, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. LFaraone 03:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Andrew Konopelsky (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Footballer who fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG - Oleola (talk) 21:03, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 06:55, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

War on cars powered by gasoline engines conspiracy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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A conspiracy theory which is just a WP:SOAPBOX piece. Essentially composed solely of WP:OR and is impossible to verify. I declined a speedy delete nomination as it doesn't fit any of the CSD criteria. Basalisk ⁄berate 21:08, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Delete - seems like someone trying to push anti-Obama views. The article is patently junk, with irrelevant anecdotes, and there is literally only one source that even remotely support the title. looks like a very tabloid-esque piece, and I really don't think it qualifies as a RS. Nowhere is there anything talking about a conspiracy, in reality; even the above source doesn't. Being anti-petrol isn't the same thing as a conspiracy. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
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  • Delete. This is POV-pushing junk that should barely be allowed to remain for the week this will take to go through. Ducknish (talk) 21:27, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete. This is pure synthesis. Even the dubious source mentioned above by Lukeno94 won't help because it's not discussing the putative conspiracy theory, it's claiming that there is a conspiracy, making it primary even if it were reliable, which it almost certainly is not, as stated. Nuke it. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 22:05, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete soapbox, OR, synthesis, etc. Great example of what shouldn't be an article.--Bkwillwm (talk) 02:33, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete - The phrase "Original Research" is often bandied about wrongly at WP — this is what it actually looks like. Original essay pushing a novel, fringe POV, sourced out to look pretty, but actually a creation from left field. Carrite (talk) 01:26, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Looks more like deep right field to me...— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 01:29, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was Delete per WP:SNOW despite the massive amounts of sockpuppetry and per author's request to delete all their articles. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 05:49, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

DL Teamor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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A lot of external links but which one is actually an in-depth, independent discussion of the woman? — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 21:06, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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Where do the guidelines indicate that there has to be an article with lengthy discussion? RHaworth Knowledge guidelines do not say that. Coraopolis412 (talk) 21:35, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

2)The person is a significant contributor to, a subject of, or used as an expert source by major news agencies or publications. 4)The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, that has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coraopolis412 (talk • contribs) 21:44, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Please tell me what you would like to see included on the page, RHaworth. I don't understand why this is troubling to you. There are many other resources that can be included, but I'd like to know what you deem necessary. Coraopolis412 (talk) 21:59, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

RHaworth Fox2 News, Xlibris Publishing, Hour Detroit Magazine, Goodreads, CW50 Street Vibes, WDWO TV, Black Authors & Published Writers Directory 2013...these are all independent of each other and very reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coraopolis412 (talk • contribs) 22:13, 4 May 2013 (UTC) Can you explain further? Coraopolis412 (talk) 22:17, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Also, RHaworth in reading some of the other Christian Fiction authors pages, I see some with less notoriety and achievements... Coraopolis412 (talk) 22:19, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

RHaworthThe entire report on Fox 2 is DL Teamor - - she is the one who is speaking during the whole interview and the name is on the screen. I understand about Xlibris, the whole gala was DL Teamor's for Calvary House, Yes, please go on... - - as far as OSE, it says, In consideration of precedent and consistency, though, identifying articles of the same nature that have been established and continue to exist on Knowledge may provide extremely important insight... Would this not include the work for Veterans who otherwise have no voice? The Hour Detroit, Fox and CW50 reports directly address these issues.Coraopolis412 (talk) 22:44, 4 May 2013 (UTC) .Coraopolis412 (talk) 22:40, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Delete per nom. The subject might well be a very nice person but that doesn't convey notability. Coraopolis412, please see WP:OTHERSTUFF. "Other articles which don't meet standards are here so this one should remain" is no argument; it's just an argument to remove the other articles. A Harlem Love Song might come under this AfD as well. Tonywalton  00:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete self-published author. References are either non-independed or are products of press releases. The only book which is even in WorldCat is Because our story will never end, which is in one library exactly. I prodded the articles on the two books. Personally, i think all three articles could also be deleted as G11, promotional, for that is their obvious intent. DGG ( talk ) 00:19, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Do Not Delete - - I have heard of this author through both her published works and as a talk show host on TCT. I also watch her on Ask the Pastor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mvs530 (talk • contribs) Mvs530 (talk) 00:49, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

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Do Not Delete has shows on multiple network stations in the United States. Because they are not known worldwide is no cause for deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Claudiacandi (talk • contribs) 01:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC) — Claudiacandi (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Do Not Delete This lady is known throughout Michigan for her work with Veterans as well as her books and TV shows.BranBrooks (talk) 01:08, 5 May 2013 (UTC) — BranBrooks (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Do Not Delete She is on the news and radio frequently speaking about vet issues and is seen often performing, speaking or giving keynote addresses at graduations and other engagements. In the guidelines, this shows that "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers".AdrianPVT (talk) 01:23, 5 May 2013 (UTC)— AdrianPVT (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Do Not Delete I am the target of this deletion campaign. I was made aware of this article earlier today and I am honored that my peers have chosen to recognize me in this way. I am definitely, "a nice lady" as some who don't know me above have indicated, but by no means was this the reason that they have written this article. There has been "Significant coverage" about me and I have been "the main topic of the source material" in more publications, journals and compilations than I could ever remember. They are certainly from "Reliable" sources as they are from "published works in all forms and media, and in any language." I see that news stories have been included on the page from FOX, TCT and CW50. I'm sure these would be called reliable in any media circle. All included "Sources" are secondary sources, and Multiple sources have been provided. I am certain that more could be added, however there would be more links than verbiage, and I'm sure that isn't the point of these articles. The guidelines say that the Sources are not required to be available online, and they are not required to be in English I will make these available to the article writer as soon as possible. The media sources that have been provided are "Independent of the subject" and I am in no way affiliated with those who interviewed me, wrote about me, etc. These are simply my peers who have an immense respect for my contributions. I can be contacted via my website with any questions or concerns.DLeniseTeamor (talk) 01:50, 5 May 2013 (UTC) — DLeniseTeamor (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Do Not Delete For those who have voted to delete, please tell me how many more sources you want included and I will include as many as you want.Coraopolis412 (talk) 02:07, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Delete. Certainly by the sources being put forth as the best ones, coverage is not being shown. The CW50 has about a two sentence mention of her by one of her colleagues; the piece is on the organization, not on her. The Fox piece shows her and has her talking, but that doesn't make her the subject - again, about two sentences on her... and that's in an interview about an auction by the person who is emceeing the auction, making it hard to see as independent. The piece that has a photo of her with her name in the caption, again, not significant coverage. --Nat Gertler (talk) 02:21, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete - This does not seem to be a notable subject, despite the sources. An in-depth look at the sources shows that. Furthermore, the article is poorly written and lacks a true neutral point of view. Also, does anyone think we may have a sockpuppetry issue going on with the posts above that all say "do not delete"? Red Phoenix 02:33, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete. I did a cleaning of the article to see if there was anything that could show notability. After all, an article might look bad but still contain RS or things that could point towards notability. I've cleaned out the worst of it, but the end result was pretty much what the other editors said: there is no notability here. Of the sources on the article, none were usable. Since we have so many new editors here, I'll give a rundown of why this is so:
Source rundown
  1. This is a news story about an event. Teamor is not the focus of the article and even if the news story showed nothing but her face, that still isn't really something that would show notability for her. It's very, very rare that an event will show notability for a person when that person isn't the focus for the event. Even if she was, most events aren't really considered to be notable enough to really give a lot (or any) notability. Less than 1% of any event or award out there is considered to extend notability to its recipient and even then, less than .01% of those events or awards are enough to give complete notability.
  2. This just shows that she attended. Now assuming that this was an overwhelmingly notable event by Knowledge standards, notability is not inherited by her having attended a notable event. This isn't a notable event though, nor is the event in the previous source. Both might have good intentions, but notability standards for events are very strict.
  3. This is her personal website and cannot show notability because it's a primary source. No primary source will ever be usable as far as showing notability goes. The reason for this is because we have no way of knowing the exact nature of whatever is being claimed. I'm not saying that the author would willfully lie about her accomplishments (although we've had people do that, so people have to be suspicious) but it is common for people to play up things that might not be considered that big per Knowledge's standards. For example, someone could say "bestselling" but it ends up that it only sold well on Amazon while offered as a freebie on the Kindle. Or you could say "award winning" and it ends up being an award that isn't considered notable per Knowledge.
  4. This is just a directory of writers. Directories aren't considered to be usable as reliable sources, although it could be usable as a trivial one that just backs up that she's written. The problem here is that nobody is questioning whether or not she's written. We're asking whether or not she's notable. While I find her accomplishments admirable, this admiration doesn't translate to notability per Knowledge. This isn't a sling against her, it's just a pretty common fact that there will be thousands of people who do great things but still won't pass notability guidelines.
  5. Besides the fact that this is a primary source written by the author, this is a merchant site and merchant sites are never usable as a sources here on Knowledge.
  6. This is also seen as a primary source and given that you can order the books through the publisher, this is also seen as a merchant source.
  7. Goodreads isn't usable as a reliable source. Not even the reviews are usable. Reviews must be written by notable persons or by people considered to be an absolute authority and they must be in places considered to be reliable. Given how easy it is to sign up for an account and post a review claiming to be someone, there's no way we can use a review posted anywhere on this or any review site of this nature.
  8. This is a routine listing for her church. Event or business listings are not usable as reliable sources. This can't even really be considered to be a feature since it was written by Teamor herself.
  9. This is just a routine listing and even if it weren't, this isn't really the type of source that Knowledge considers to be reliable. Most websites aren't considered to be reliable, really. It's not that anyone thinks that the sites are lying, just that there are pretty strict standards for what is or isn't usable.
  10. This is another routine database listing. The thing about these types of listings is that it's never really that hard to get included. Even if it is an exclusive list, just being listed isn't enough unless it's a list that is so hard to get onto that it would give notability. By this I mean that Teamor would be listed on a list such as the ALA's "Best of 2012" lists that they put out each year.
  11. This looks to be a recording by an internet radio station. Most internet shows aren't usable as reliable sources and that this was uploaded by Teamor doesn't really help either. YouTube is really only usable as a RS if it's uploaded by the official source, such as if CNN were to do a piece on her and upload it to their YT channel. It's sort of moot in this case since the show isn't seen as a notable or reliable enough source to give notability.
  12. While this is a local TV station, the video was still uploaded by Teamor herself. Even if we were to count this as a reliable source regardless of that and for other concerns voiced by other editors, one source is not enough to show notability. The only time one or two sources would be enough is if the sources verify something so overwhelmingly notable that it would give instant notability. By this I mean that it would show that she won a Pulitzer or the Nobel Prize. The unsaid thing about things that people have done or achieved is that if the event or act is something that would give notability based upon that one fact or event, it would be something that would be covered in multiple independent and reliable sources.
Basically put, she doesn't pass notability guidelines. Helping out people who are less fortunate is unfortunately not something that gives notability. It'd be nice if we could say that it was, but it's not. It might seem unfair that someone who does nice things for other people and sacrifices their time gets no coverage while someone who is known for being rathouse crazy gets so much coverage that they merit their own article. The thing is, it's not up to Knowledge to make up the difference for what is or isn't covered in the media and we cannot give every person an article, regardless of how deserving they might seem. If they don't have coverage, they can't get an article. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 05:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) czar · · 23:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

AfDs for this article:
Fred Diamond (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Although slightly noted in relation to the full proof of the modularity theorem where he was one of several who extended Andrew Wiles famous proof, I can't find any evidence that this is not just "a routine professor of a subject at a university". Even his profile page doesn't seem to hint at more. He researches in his field and has a research fellowship by the American Mathematical Society, but there just doesn't seem to be enough here to suggest he is a notable academic in his own right in the sense of WP:N and WP:BIO.

I've considered the spirit of WP:ACADEMIC. While the modularity theorem is a major theorem, I don't think Diamond has been notable because of his involvement in it. From several angles the same conclusions - the theorem was largely a completion/extension of Wiles' historic work in 1995 which was based on Wiles' approaches and completed within some months (so he wasn't the "resolver of a major issue in number theory" at that point), and to underline this, a number of other researchers also seem to have published or collaborated in the same work's completion (see Modularity theorem#History). A check of third party reliable sources shows similarly that they haven't provided significant coverage of him in the sense a bio-article subject is usually discussed. Beyond that there's almost nothing else to draw on. As the guideline observes:

"Many scientists, researchers, philosophers and other scholars ... are notably influential in the world of ideas without their biographies being the subject of secondary sources." (WP:ACADEMIC)

Eyeballs appreciated. FT2  19:45, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Keep. Google scholar shows six publications by Diamond with over 100 citations each, a high number for a low-citation field. I think this is enough to give him a clear pass of WP:PROF#C1, beyond his fame as one of the people who proved the full modularity theorem (which is by the way a very significant result, independent of its connection to Fermat). —David Eppstein (talk) 20:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
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But do we have any secondary sources covering him, or signs that he (as an individual) is seen as more than a routine academic, albeit one with highly cited papers? I'm looking for evidence of significant notice being taken by secondary sources in the context of a biographical article, not just our subjective assumptions about citation count. FT2  23:10, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
"Routine academic" and "Highly cited" are two different things. And routine academics don't get the AMS Centeniall Fellowship nor hold visiting positions at the IAS – although neither of those things is sufficient for notability by themselves, I think they add weight to the case. As for your other argument, that he may have had a significant impact as measured e.g. by citations while still failing to have enough secondary sources on which to base an article: that can happen sometimes, but I think it is not a problem here. Plenty of in-depth secondary sources cover his contributions (both the modularity theorem and the book), and I believe that sort of coverage to be a lot more important for academics than coverage of biographical trivia. For factual information like degree and appointment data we can use primary sources such as his cv, but the Notices announcement of his fellowship is secondary, nontrivial, and biographical. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:43, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Clear keep as per Eppstein. GS h-index of 17 is good for mathematicians, plus some very high cites. The nominator should study WP:Prof before making further nominations in this area. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC).
  • Keep This one pretty clearly passes under WP:PROF C1, as David Eppstein has noted. Ray 02:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep Per David Epstein. Mathematics is a field where 10 citations for a paper is a lot. Having several papers with over 100 citations and an H-index of 17 would be close to notable in a high-citation field like Neuroscience, in mathematics it is way beyond any reasonable threshold. --Randykitty (talk) 12:21, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep. I don't think h-index is even all that relevant here because his papers don't fit the typical curve, i.e. citations are "frontloaded" into a fairly small number of papers. WoS citation list is 233, 69, 60, 53,... so he's written a limited number of rather high impact papers – perfectly acceptable under WP:PROF c1. Agricola44 (talk) 15:26, 6 May 2013 (UTC).
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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:56, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Caloocan City Business High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Highly promotional. I've looked in the history, and to remove the promo would take it back nearly a year. There's been a lot of COI editing. Anyone wanting to sort it, be my guest. Peridon (talk) 19:05, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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No-one said it wasn't notable. High schools can be (and are) deleted for advertising - which has been going on here for a long time... Peridon (talk) 18:49, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Courcelles 00:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Ninja Warz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This was one of the first article I created, but looking back it seems non-notable. Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 18:46, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 06:57, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Untitled fifth studio album (Jonas Brothers Album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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WP:CRYSTAL,WP:NALBUMS and WP:HAMMER apply. In order to avoid rumour-mongering, we normally don't create articles until there's a confirmed track list, title, and release date. This has none of the three, and contains such vague nonsense as "TBA, the album's second single, is according to Joe Jonas possibly set to be released before they hit the road again in July 2013." —Kww(talk) 18:38, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to Allama Iqbal Medical College#Publications. J04n(talk page) 19:54, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Shaheen Annual Youth Magazine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Magazine appears to be non-notable, no sources found. Revolution1221 17:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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  • Strong delete, shouldn't've even gone through this process, should've been deleted a week ago. I've redirected.--Launchballer 09:22, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete - no question.Deb (talk) 09:25, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
    • What is your reasoning for deletion instead of redirecting? -- Whpq (talk) 10:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
      • It is an inappropriate page. Deb (talk) 11:52, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
        • But that doesn't explain why you don't want it redirected. -- Whpq (talk) 11:55, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
          • The magazine is of far too local interest to warrant inclusion; it's only circulated amongst students! Ask me again when they issue it outside the campus.--Launchballer 12:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
            • The reason you give explains why a standalone article is not justified, but it does not address why we should not have a redirect, especially as some information about the magazine is contained at the Allama Iqbal Medical College article. -- Whpq (talk) 12:58, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
              • It's pointless - no-one's going to be looking for it. It isn't encyclopedic or notable.--Launchballer 13:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
                • This is a page for discussing whether an article should be deleted, and those who are in favour of deletion are not on trial here. Deb (talk) 15:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
                  • You are not "on trial here". Asking for a reason for deletion instead of redirection is a perfectly valid question to ask in this discussion. The response that this is not encyclopedic or notable addresses why a standalone article is not needed. And so far, nobody is advocating keeping the article. No-one's going to look for it presupposes what people might be interested in searching for. We do have material at the suggested redirect target and we normally redirect in those cases. -- Whpq (talk) 16:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
                    • I think this is one thing that we can presuppose. Who is going to be interested in it besides its writers and its stakeholders (other students, parents, teachers)? No-one! Drop the stick.--Launchballer 17:06, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Courcelles 00:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Kelly Greyson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable actor lacking GHITS and GNEWS of substance. The article contains a large number of references, but they are generally not related to the individual. Fails WP:N and WP:TOOSOON reddogsix (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was speedy delete housekeeping non-admin closure: A7 (not listed in log) czar · · 17:53, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Owen Thomas (boxer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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The article is probably a sandbox experiment by a new editor. The article is not suitable for Knowledge; no information and the person in question on which the article is based is not noteworthy. Ahmer Jamil Khan (talk) 16:19, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. postdlf (talk) 16:00, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

2012 Pacific Tropical Cyclones Track (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Per WP:PLOT, WP is not the JTWC/JAMA, it is not a database. Could be deleted or converted to a timeline. This page is not even complete and nobody bothered to put a hurricane tag on. YE 15:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC) YE 15:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Courcelles 00:30, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Đinh Hoàng Max (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested by an IP without providing a reason. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:37, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Courcelles 00:30, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Wind Speed in Bangladesh last 42 Years (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Simply not notable. Unsourced and fails our policies. Mediran (t • c) 14:53, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete, no notability of this theory has been demonstrated.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:36, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Critical repetition frequency (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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The article on Critical repetition frequency is based on the German article on "Kritische Wiederholungshäufigkeit", which was deleted in June 2010, see http://de.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:L%C3%B6schkandidaten/1._Juni_2010#Kritische_Wiederholungsh.C3.A4ufigkeit_.28erl..2C_gel.C3.B6scht.29 since this is a phony theory without any scientific content, see discussion there and discussion page of this article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Critical_repetition_frequency

The authors of this article tried to establish a phony theory (using some pseudo-math) in order to push their views on the question, whether poker should be regarded as a game of skill. However, they even succeeded to place their theories at the institute of common law (!) of the university of Hamburg. Thereafter they tried to misuse Knowledge as a reference.

After this theory was rejected (it is a question of pure mathematics, and from the mathemaical point of view it's pure nonsense) the article was deleted from the German Knowledge and things remained silent. By chance I found this article in the English Knowledge - it is just a translation from the German one - and I think, it should be deleted, too.

Knowledge should not offer a platform for anybody to establish his one silly theories.

When deleting this article, the file http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Importance_Skill_Chance.JPG should be deleted, too. Roland Scheicher (talk) 13:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Roland Scheicher (talk) 13:23, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

 Comment: The world is full of silly theories, if not outright fraudalent ones. What makes a possibly silly/fake theory notable, and therefore within Knowledge's scope, is not if it is true or not but its social impact, e.g. Moon landing conspiracy theories, MMR vaccine controversy. The CRF theory appears to have been created as a lobbying tool by the online gambling industry in order to present poker as a game of skill and therefore meriting a more lenient regulatary approach than games reliant on pure chance. The notability of this theory must therefore not rest upon its peer reviewed scientific/mathematical credentials-but, if any, its use as a lobbying tool and its influence on legislation and regulation.--KTo288 (talk) 14:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Behavioural science-related deletion discussions. czar · · 14:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. czar · · 14:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Whereas many useful ideas have surfaced out in this discussion, unfortunately, not a single one created consensus. Let us try again in a while.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Central station (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This article says very little beyond saying that "'Central' is a common element in big city train station names" and then providing a list of stations that are, by someone's definition, "central". But for instance the German name being used as a criterion is Hauptbahnhof, as referenced in Knowledge:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 May 3#Category:Hauptbahnhof, not Zentralbahnhof; in the US "Central" stations tend to be those built by "central" railroads: the best known example, Grand Central Station in NYC, is so named because it was built by the New York Central Railroad, not for its location or importance. Thus I see no real common concept addressed by this article, other than a subjective notion of mainness or centrality. Mangoe (talk) 13:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Delete per nom, or at least convert to a disambiguation page listing all stations named "central". - filelakeshoe (t / c) 13:18, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. czar · · 14:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. czar · · 14:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Nobody needs an article to understand that there is often a single main/central station in a city of sufficient size; it's actually more remarkable that Paris and London do not have a single primary station, and that many smallish American cities are served by two or more stations. The article spends some time (not all that much) in an attempt to explain the obvious, but as the associated category is not well-defined, so the list's membership ends up being based on the arbitrary criterion of picking a set of words to be used as synonyms for "central" and including any station that uses one of those words. Mangoe (talk) 11:51, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Those are strong arguments to improve the existing article; thank you for highlighting specific areas that need attention. --Bermicourt (talk) 13:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Redirect to Central Station (disambiguation), which has a better list of central train stations anyways. Ansh666 20:02, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Er, take another look. The dab page list is poorly organized, has far fewer entries and at least 2 entries that shouldn't be in the list. Truth is, the central station article got hacked and slashed following a spurious argument over the translation of Hauptbahnhof and has not recovered since. I have started some rework to make it more encyclopaedic, but don't currently have access to my offline sources. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:26, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
      • Awkward...I got the two mixed up. Too many central stations! I think a merging of the two in some form, with one being a list and the other detailing the "concept" more, would be better. So I guess I should !vote keep for now? Ansh666 20:40, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
      • Re that comment and your random moving of Praha hl.n. to Prague Central Station (despite knowing that article has already had 2 RMs and the correct action is to nominate it for a third), the spurious argument is the one that "central station" means "main station" everywhere in the world. Each country in the world has different naming conventions for railway stations and in Czech Republic there are many cities (like Ostrava and, in the past, Prague) which have a "main station" (hlavní nádraží) and a "central" (střed). A uniform naming convention of calling every big station around the world "Foo Central Station" is original research, and this article's purpose just seems to be to push that. - filelakeshoe (t / c) 08:15, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
        • I am surprised that you, as an admin, are using personal criticism ("random move" - it wasn't; and "despite knowing that article has already had 2 RMs" - no, I didn't actually) and abusing your admin rights by reverting article moves, something the rest of us can't do. That aside, easy research shows that "Foo Central Station" is a common English translation, not least for "Prague Central Station" - just check out google (73,000 hits) and google books (88) (yes I know google needs treating with caution, but 73,000 tells a story), whilst the average English reader of Knowledge will have some difficulty with Praha hl.n. or Praha hlavní nádraží. All of which is tangentially related to this article, which is not about pushing a convention - that's a straw man argument. The article needs improving, not wiping out. --Bermicourt (talk) 12:50, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
          • BOLD moves are only supposed to be done when the case is uncontroversial, so not something which has had 2 no consensus RMs (both of which you !voted in). As for this article, could you tell us what you think the point of it is? To list every major station of every city in the world, or to list every station named "Central"? (centraal, centrale, střed etc.) If it's the former then there are plenty of stations named "Central" in the UK which are not, by that definition, "Central Stations", and plenty of places around the world where there's a "main station" and another station called "central", and if it's the latter then that amounts to a list of trivia. - filelakeshoe (t / c) 14:05, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
        • I'M SO CONFUSED NOW T__T okay to closing admin I officially don't exist in this one. Ansh666 08:51, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Split page - I think there could be useful information for a Central station concept article. However, trying to list every single central station in the world will be a problem. In fact there are many stations that could be considred central stations are they are located in the centre. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 20:52, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • keep I don't know why we wouldn't list every single central station. We have much bigger lists. But this one could be a list of "notable" central stations, e.g. ones for which Knowledge has an article. I think this is quite reasonable and fits within the bounds of notability esp for a list-type article.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 03:26, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep and partially replace with Central station (disambiguation). Half of this is just a list of "Central Station"s in the world. Only the main idea is relevant. --Epicgenius 20:35, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment. As a variation on some of the suggestions above, the main article could discuss the usage of the term around the world, listing only notable and relevant examples in each country. So where a country ("Foo") has more than a handful of such stations, its section would have a link to a separate "List of central stations in Foo". That would certainly be neater and more encyclopaedic. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:47, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment. This article should really just be "Hauptbahnhof" and explain the conventional usage of this term in the German speaking world. It appears to have suffered from translation into English followed by corruption by attempts to add further examples from other networks. Railwayfan2005 (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment. I think deciding what to do with this Central station page is connected with the wider question of how to treat the proper names of railway stations. It is unclear to me what purpose the Central station page currently serves, other than being used as an attempt to push "Central station" as a new English-language term meaning something like the main station in a city, whether or not it is actually called that outside Knowledge or whether it is actually central; and for certain stations in the benighted lands on the wrong side of Dover the name which Knowledge should use instead of the WP:COMMONNAME found in WP:ENGLISH-language reliable WP:SOURCES. Take the opening phrase "In many countries, a central station is generally the primary railway station in a large town or city", which gives no source, and doesn't reflect UK or Irish or US or French or German practice (whereabouts is it true?). Or look at the hoops someone is jumping though to try to define "Hauptbahnhof" as meaning Central station (perhaps Wikipedians have never been to Karslruhe or Vienna? And why aren't we renaming anything else with a German name, only the Hauptbahnhofs - why not a Tempelhof as well?) with the circular arguments between the station articles which have been renamed and this one. Meanwhile, other people are using this article to point out that such an agenda does not actually reflect the non-Knowledge real world as it stands. A "list of stations named Central" is fundamentally incompatible with a "list of the main stations in various places" (see Brussels, Liverpool, Exeter, Prague etc, not to mention the Paris, London, Moscow etc question). This page has become part of the same debate.
(For the record, personally I'd trust DB, SNCB, CD, Thomas Cook, Modern Railways, Today's Railways, the BBC, CNN and the Grauniad more than I'd trust unsourced claims in Knowledge, and the terminology they use is good enough for me!) Wheeltapper (talk) 23:19, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep WP:SIA (but the title should probably be "Central Station"). The stations not just called "Central Station" could be removed from the disambiguation page. Peter James (talk) 17:12, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete or completely overhaul to make it a set index article restricted to stations literally called "central station" in English or in the local language. It's quite clear from the opening paragraph that we don't know what this article is about. It basically says "a central station is at the center of the city or maybe not and may be called something else but we're still going to consider that it's a central station if we estimate that it's roughly equivalent and for good measure we'll also include stations called "central station" for unrelated reasons." Including the Hauptbahnhofs seems dubious: declaring that the correct translation of "Hauptbahnof" is "central station", rather than "main station" is somewhat arbitrary and in many contexts, English sources don't even translate Hauptbahnhof. In particular, if you're buying train tickets, in Belgium, France, Italy and other neighboring countries, the stations will be listed as XYZ Hauptbahnhof or XYZ Hbf. Pichpich (talk) 13:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The haupt prefix literally means "head" but should be taken in the figurative sense of "main" or "primary". It doesn't imply centrality of location. It should also be recalled that a "head station" is a terminus station, that is, one to which the tracks come and stop, as opposed the other other pattern of having platforms on either side of through trackage. I doubt that this sense is meant but the point here is that the concept this article is trying to over is vague and to a large degree subjective and arbitrary. Mangoe (talk) 14:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Doesn't haupt in this context translate to main, rather than head? A terminus is called a kopfbahnhof ('head station') in German. Kopf is also the word used for the part of the body attached to the neck. English-language announcements, timetables and passenger information of course use Hauptbahnhof, as does the media: even the Daily Mail, so famed for its tolerant and broadminded attitude to things foreign, is willing to talk about "the Hauptbahnhof, Berlin's main train station". Wheeltapper (talk) 14:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
I guess that the (dubious) rationale for translating Hauptbahnhof as "central station" is that when English sources translate the German word, "central station" seems to be the most common translation with "main station" a close second if one trusts my very unreliable research through Google. I think Dortmund Central Station should be moved to Dortmund Hauptbahnhof because it's the most recognizable name but even if one disagrees with that idea, it should be recognized that including the Hauptbahnhofs as central stations is only a product of our translation. Pichpich (talk) 16:02, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The impression I've got from previous debates on this matter is that the (dubious) rationale is that Central is what assorted stations might have been called were the natives to speak (an unspecified version of) English rather than speaking some foreign lingo. Which is completely unverifiable. I see the latest Today's Railways has an article called "Wien Hauptbahnhof delayed". Wheeltapper (talk) 18:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Today's Railways has a policy of never translating names into English, even when well known terms exist in English. Knowledge's policy is different.--Grahame (talk) 02:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
I thought Knowledge's policy was in large part to follow the lead of reliable sources on the subject such as Today's Railways. Pichpich (talk) 02:43, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
So did I, based on WP:COMMONNAME: "determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources". And the The Guardian: at a building site near the Hauptbahnhof, CNN: near the Hauptbahnhof, Deutsche Welle: north of the Berlin Hauptbahnhof, and China Daily: Berlin's main Hauptbahnhof Railway Station also used Hauptbahnhof in recent news stories. Aside from stations, see also the Knowledge articles on the Reichstag building (Imperial Parliament or Houses of Parliament (Germany)?), Oktoberfest (September festival? Great German Beer Festival?), Arc de Triomphe (Triumphal arch? Wellington Arch (Paris)?), and TGV (HST? InterCity 186?), all of which follow sources rather than try to devise an "English" name.
I see no evidence that Today's Railways is a reliable source on English naming conventions. It always calls Cologne "Köln", which is not normal English practice.--Grahame (talk) 01:43, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep. It has a legitimate basis as an article.--Grahame (talk) 02:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
    • That doesn't say much... Do you think the article should list every station with a foreign name that a Knowledge editor deems sufficiently close in spirit to "central station"? Can you reconcile this with including stations who are called "Central" by accident? If not, what exactly is that legitimate basis you mention? Pichpich (talk) 02:40, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
I agree that it would be more legitimate if it was called Hauptbahnhof, which has a defined meaning.--Grahame (talk) 02:45, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Hmm... Then I don't really see where we disagree. Clearly we can't rename this article Hauptbahnhof since the bulk of its content is stations in non-German speaking countries. If you're saying that the article should be split into two (or more) set index articles, then I'd support this happily but your "keep" is at the very least ambiguous. Pichpich (talk) 03:00, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
I support renaming it as Hauptbahnhof, and keeping the relevant content. I agree that the content of the article for non-German speaking countries does not appear to have a coherent rationale.--Grahame (talk) 03:19, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Maybe I'm being stupid but I still don't see what you mean. If we rename this article to Hauptbahnhof then the only relevant content in the current article will be the section on Germany (although sections on Switzerland and Austria could be added). If your preferred option is "remove 90% of the content and move what's left to a new name", then I like that option but how is it different from "delete"? Pichpich (talk) 03:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
It is different if we end up with a short article on the concept Hauptbahnhof (which is all that it deserves).--Grahame (talk) 08:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • further commentary on the German I see from the German Knowledge that our notion of a "head station" (that is, one without through trackage) translates very literally to kopfbahnhof. But I also find that DB has a set of seven station categories, with the hauptbahnhöfe (mostly) sharing Category 1 with various other major stations (e.g. Berlin has something like six). This seems a more notable grouping. Mangoe (talk) 03:58, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Hauptbahnhof has nothing to do with a "head station" (kopfbahnhof), it just means the most important station in a city/municipality. The German's generally prefix the municipal name to their stations so the Hauptbahnhof is the one that has no prefix. Bad Dürkheim station is a kopfbahnhof, but not a Hauptbahnhof. Hauptbahnhofs range down to category 6 (Gevelsberg Central Station.--Grahame (talk) 08:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Is "head station" an English term? The (British) English equivalent of kopfbahnhof is "terminus". Wheeltapper (talk) 08:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
I would have thought that "terminus" was the normal English for kopfbahnhof.--Grahame (talk) 08:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, there seems to be some sort of rule that Brit and US terminology have to be different, but in any case the German word refers to a station where the tracks come into the building and stop, as opposed to the sort where they pass through the platforms and keep going. And I welcome Grahame's correction. At any rate all of these categorizations are tending to bunch up into "shared name" groups, whether the shared element is "central", "union", or "haupt". That to my mind puts the kibosh on the categorizations, but it also seems to me that the name issue is better served by some clean up in train station which among other things would address this issue of naming all in one place. Mangoe (talk) 10:20, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
"Hauptbahnhof" literally means "head railway yard". That's "head" as in "main", "chief" or "principal". It says nothing about whether the station is centrally situated. By contrast, "Central Station" is ambiguous: the word "central" could mean "main", "chief" or "principal", but might also mean either "centrally situated" or "this station belongs (or once belonged) to a railway company which had the word 'central' in its name". Neither of the terms "Hauptbahnhof" nor "Central Station" have any information about whether the tracks are necessarily dead-end or not. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Literal translation doesn't always help. A Hauptmann in the Army is a "captain"; it's literal meaning of "chief man" doesn't really help. What is essential in translation is to understand how the foreign word is applied in reality and then identify the nearest equivalent term in English. A Hauptbahnhof is (usually) the primary station in a city or large town; in some cases its original significance has been lost due to changes in transport demand over decades. In English, we do not use the term "head station" and very few examples are called "Main Station". By contrast "Central Station" is far more common and is the nearest equivalent in terms of usage: usually named because it was originally the primary station in a city or town that had more than one station, but again in some cases it has lost than significance but retained the name. Go back in history and you will find that the German word used to be Zentralbahnhof! But this article is not just about German usage, but about the many countries that also use the term "central station" or equivalent in very much the same way. Yes, there are differences; the value of an article like this is that it can highlight and explain all that, linking, where necessary, to individual country articles. Bermicourt (talk) 10:30, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that stations called Central were "usually named because it was originally the primary station"? That isn't true of the UK, nor it would seem the USA or Australia, so where is it true? Can we find some hard examples of, say, New Street or Paragon or Waverley being called (rather than described as) "Central station"? Or examples of main stations which are not physically central being called Central while a minor but central station is called something else? I note that Hauptmann has its own page under the German name (which says that both the English and German words derive from "head", rather than "chief") it isn't a redirect to Captain (armed forces) or translated to Captain (German). It is also unclear why we actually need to identify equivalent terms to proper names in the first place - especially if the result is confusing and ambiguous (is Central station the main one or the central one?) and misleading (Karlsruhe Central station?) Wheeltapper (talk) 11:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
This is all Tosh. As someone pointed out above Grand central in New york got the appellation from the railway company name, not it's location in NY. Lincoln Central was nearer to the historic town than St Marks, and was called that as a differentiator. Gainsborough Central is an absolute dump compared to Gainsborough Lea Road, and was called Central because the LNER got it from the Great Central - it wasn't called Central till 1923. Liverpool Lime Street was always important than Liverpool Central, and right next to the town hall and the Astoria. Liverpool Central seems to have been named by the CLC because the station at the other end of the line was Manchester Central. There is no commonality or underlying 'message'. You might as well have a list of all stations called ...High Level or ...Street.
As for trying to make a link with Hauptbahnhof, I personally think that is just wrong. The name of Berlin Hauptbahnhof is Berlin Hauptbahnhof not Berlin Central. But I am on a loosing battle here, even www.raileurope.com and www.berlin.de assume that the english for Hauptbahnhof is Central Station. Belgrade Station is Belgrade Central Station now. The principle station in Brisbane is Central railway station.
I guess that what we can say is that in many cases the principle station in a City may be called X Central Station when expressed in English. (not, you notice, X Central). But in the UK and some other English-speaking countries this convention does not exist in the same way.
I'm not sure that is a basis for an article, though. It is just a statement with no content.--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 13:48, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
And not all Hauptbahnhof are very Haupt - Hauptbahnhof Sedelsberg--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 14:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
All of which goes to show that it is worth having the article, not least to explain all these different nuances, both in English, and other languages. If there were one simple dictionary definition, then it would make sense to leave it to Wiktionary, but there isn't, there is a wealth of material and host of different examples, complete with great images, for an article! What it needs is improving to address some of the concerns above. Let's give that a try before giving up! Bermicourt (talk) 15:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)


What it means is that the main train station article needs to explain this complex of somewhat related words. Mangoe (talk) 16:36, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
It seems that much of the confusion is the result of attempts to use this article to try to establish the phrase "Central station" as having the meaning "the main station" within Knowledge, which it does not have anywhere else. This page is then being used to argue that some stations which are not called "Central station" should be renamed as Central station within Knowledge, while the renamed station articles are being used to justify this page. These problems would solve themselves if we just stuck to following sources and using the names of the stations which everyone else does; no-one seems to want to include Roma Termini on this list, because (so far!) no-one wants to rename its article to Rome Central station. What we really need is a clear policy on whether the normal WP:UE and wp:commonname apply to stations. If they do, then we don't invent new names for stations, and this page becomes "list of stations with the word Central in their name". If the stations do need Knowledge rather than real-world names, then this page can become "list of stations which a Knowledge policy which we specify here says should be renamed Central, but without those stations named by railways which forgot to check Knowledge before naming their station". Wheeltapper (talk) 18:55, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep. If "central station" meant simply "a station that is central", as the nominator assumes, then of course there would be no reason for an article of this type. But in fact "central station" is the common name for a type of station, as is evident from this ngram. This usage derives from the fact that, for whatever reason, the principle station of certain cities was named in the form "Foo Central Station." But the usage is now part of the English language, independent of the formal name of any particular station. The drive to delete this article appears to stem from opposition to the practice of translating station names. Translation is not original research! Let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees: Our purpose is to write reference material that English-speakers can read. Collins German-English Dictionary defines hauptbahnhof as "main or central station”. I did not make the translation up, and I don't appreciate the repeated accusations to this effect. Here is Spiegel Online: “Travelers at Berlin's central station faced disruptions after a series of petrol bombs were discovered along railway lines in the German capital last week.” Here we see the phrase "central station" used to refer to a type of station, a type that is understood to include the main railway station in Berlin. Deutsche Welle has a full-length English-language article on the Berlin station which refers to it as a "central station" and as a "central railway station" several times, but not once as a "hauptbahhof." I ask those who oppose translation this question: Should the main station in Beijing be called "北京火车站" or Běijīng huǒchēzhàn? Kauffner (talk) 04:19, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Note that while Deutsche Welle might describe Hauptbahnof as being Berlin's central station, it says it is called Hauptbahnof: World War II bomb interrupts Berlin trains "a track of land north of the Berlin Hauptbahnhof". As does The Guardian: "the Hauptbahnhof". There is no evidence that "central" is being used in anything other than its everyday English sense. To prove central means main station, we would need to find examples of, say, Gare d'Avignon TGV being called "Avignon Central station" or Gare de Champagne-Ardenne TGV being called "Rheims Central station". I note that none of the Beijing stations have been designated "Beijing Central" by Knowledge (until someone reads this and does so!). I ask those who oppose unambiguous and easy to understand common names this question: should Birmingham New Street railway station be called Birmingham Central, or at least "Birmingham's central station"? Wheeltapper (talk) 12:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
The Web site of the city of Berlin gives the station's name as "Berlin Central Station." I assume the site uses this form because the tourist office thinks it is the one that potential tourists will understand most easily. They have many years of experience with this issue and they may even have researched it. In it's original and literal meaning, the "central station" was the station that was most centrally located among a city's several stations -- nothing to do the city center. Kauffner (talk) 14:26, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
"Assume", "may". Are you suggesting that Deutsche Bahn (who think Berlin Central is a hotel), Eurostar and SNCB have zero experience of the travel market, and messrs Thomas Cook, Lonely Planet and Rough Guide have never done any research into foreign parts? Did the stations in Berlin all move around when Ostbahnhof's name changed? Our of interest, what do you think the airport should be called? Someone who is confused by a station in Berlin having a kraut name is surely going to have real problems with those funny little dots in Berlin Schönefeld Airport! Wheeltapper (talk) 16:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile in other cities the principle stations of were called Victoria, or Union, or Hauptbahnhof, or Paragon, while non-principle stations were called Central.

Comment. Hi IIO. I don't think the article is about main stations in that sense, but about the use of the name "Foo Central Station" or "Foo Central railway station" and its equivalents in other countries. This naming convention is common in English and elsewhere and, it seems to me, that there is a logic behind the naming, even if, in some cases that logic no longer applies to individual cases, e.g. where a station has lost its significance. Of course, as various editors have pointed out, the usage is not identical between countries, but in Europe at least, it is very often the primary station in their city and originally named to disambiguate it from another, lesser, station in the same city. US usage is, of course, different and also needs to be clearly articulated. The history, distribution and usage of these terms, together with lists of the national examples, seems a noteworthy enough subject. What we need is to put better structure and more sources around the article, not least to take account of the valid points made by various editors about the origin and usage of the name in different countries.
A separate issue is how we translate station names in other countries. Normally it's easy: "Foo railway station" where "Foo" is the proper name, excluding the foreign word for station. In addition, few seem opposed to the translation of "Foo Central Station" or "Foo Central railway station" where the foreign name literally means "central station". There is an issue where it literally means "main station", but I have argued that, since there are almost no examples in English of "Foo Main Station", that the nearest equivalent is also "Foo Central Station". This is reinforced, in the case of Germany, by the fact that they used the term Zentralbahnhof historically for Hauptbahnhof. There are always going to be awkward exceptions e.g. where the foreign word really means "city centre" (e.g. Zentrum) that is clearly not the same and I would advocate not translating it but leaving it as "Foo Zentrum railway station".
Hope that helps. --Bermicourt (talk) 16:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
We seem to have a lot of examples of where this alleged "convention" doesn't exist, but precious little on where it does exist. It seems we all pretty much agree that the idea that "central = main" has never been true in the UK, Ireland, the USA, Canada or Australia? So the issue is whether in Germany we can say "the word Bar appears in many station names. If we define Bar as meaning Central, then Foo Bar station might be called Foo Central by someone determined not to use the word Bar and not bothered about being understood".
Also, if stations called Hauptbahnhof need new names for Knowledge, do we need "English" names for stations like Fred Street or Under the Lime Trees? Should Hohenzollernplatz (Berlin U-Bahn) become Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Square (Berlin Underground), reflecting the equivalent term for much of the English-speaking world? Wheeltapper (talk) 22:26, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Fred Street indeed; when Eileen Hall translated Emil and the Detectives, in Chapter 2 "The Police Keep Quiet", Zoologischer Garten became Zoological Gardens, but Friedrichstraße merely became Friedrich Street, without going all the way to Frederick Street. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Mediran (t • c) 11:08, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Tadasana (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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The topic for this article does not appear to be encyclopedic in nature. The article appears to belong more to a dictionary or manual. Rioscopy (talk) 16:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

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No, all the asana articles were nominated.Curb Chain (talk) 01:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Mexican triathlon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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The only thing I can find about this is some facebook page on google. WP:NOTMADEUP? Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/) 09:13, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Metropolitan90 (talk) 18:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Michael Oleksa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Insufficient notability, no sourcing. Subject does not meet notability criteria. Article is utterly unsourced. User:PAWiki (talk) 03:03, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

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The result was incubate. Article will be moved to Knowledge:Article Incubator/Shivalika. Metropolitan90 (talk) 18:23, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Shivalika (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable. Knowledge:Notability (films)  Tentinator  07:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

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  • Incubate per WP:NFF and TOO SOON as film appears to be nearing completion, with voice work done two months ago. While the trailer shows the animation quality is no where near that available in American cinema, the film does use the talents of enough Hindi notables that we might expect it to have coverage when actually released. Schmidt, 22:30, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Courcelles 00:31, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

FVD video downloader (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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It exists, but I couldn't prove WP:NOTABILITY Boleyn (talk) 06:54, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

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Our discussion here is not related to the current contents of the article, or the lack thereof. Our discussion here is designed to determine if sufficient references could be found and added to the article (read: the subject's notability). If you go only based on the quality of the article, it dissuades inexperienced editors from creating new articles and gives an advantage to experienced or even professional Knowledge editors (the latter do exist) who can craft an article to make the subject appear more notable than it/they actually is/are. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:01, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. No prejudice against recreation if significant coverage in reliable sources turns up at some point. The Bushranger One ping only 16:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Enrique Romero-Nieves (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Majority of article is citation on awarding and requirements for Navy Cross, not really a biography mostly blatant copyright infringement with brief background. Grammarxxx 07:25, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Notability has not been proven, and is not conferred through a walled garden. Ironholds (talk) 00:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Three Rooms Press (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No indication of notability; sources either don't mention the publisher at all or provide only passing mentions. Was prodded; prod removed by author without improvement. Huon (talk) 05:05, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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  • Comment If someone can confirm that the books are available internationally, then I might consider a weak keep; in its absence, I'm sitting on the fence. --JB Adder | Talk 15:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom, Notability is not established. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment Three Rooms Press is notable because of its products. (1)it has published books by several notable individuals listed in first paragraph of section titled "Publication History." Several of the citations include news articles announcing these publications mentioning Three Rooms a the publisher as well as establishing the notability of the authors, (2) one of the two annuals of the press is now archived in the Museum of Modern Art Periodical and Recording Libraries. A link to MoMA archive catalog cited. (3) Book Reviews are listed, include a review of Mike Watt's book in the Los Angeles Review of Books.

GetDaFacts (talk) 03:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Comment I reviewed over 30 similar articles currently included about small literary presses. Most cite the publishers website as primary source and include no third party citations. The measuring stick needs to be consistent. In addition to articles, there are a lot of stubs. What is the criteria for inclusion as a stub.

GetDaFacts (talk) 03:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Comment The books published by Three Rooms Press are available internationally. See Amazon's UK site. I just searched for the press and found their books.

GetDaFacts (talk) 03:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC) Comment See citation (4)regarding Nassau County's first poet laureate, George Wallace "He is author of 24 chapbooks of poetry, published in the US, UK and Italy, including Poppin Johnny (Three Rooms Press, NY 2009)..."; citation (9) from Boston Globe "Next week, author Michael T. Fournier will bring his band Dead Trend to New York City to promote his new book. That’s right, book, not album. You see, despite Dead Trend being the quintessential 1980s hardcore punk band, they don’t actually exist. Or didn’t, that is, until recently, when the band crawled off of the pages of the Belchertown author’s new novel, “Hidden Wheel” (Three Rooms Press)."; citation(15) regarding Mike Watt's new book the name of the press is in the title of David Luhrssen's article "On and Off Bass (Three Rooms Press), by Mike Watt"; citation(16) "The occasion of the conversation was the release of a catalogue (On and Off Bass, available from Three Rooms Press) of Watt’s digital photographs of the San Pedro waterfront which were displayed in a gallery on the West Coast not too long ago."; citation(18)"Mike Watt (of the Minutemen, fIREHOSE, and the Stooges) is releasing the memoir Mike Watt: On and Off Bass in May via Three Rooms Press. The book will feature his nature photography and tour diaries."

Maybe my error was including too many other citations, so that these were lost in the shuffle. GetDaFacts (talk) 04:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Keep - Have found reviews for several books and articles about some of the authors. An established book publisher with notable books/authors; passes WP:N. I have cleaned up the article some, reorganized, removed duplicate ref, and added a source. AuthorAuthor (talk) 22:24, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
The last time I checked, WP:N said this: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list." Which of the independent sources covers the publisher in any detail? None do. All MTV has to say about Three Rooms Press is this: "Shortly thereafter, the folks at Three Rooms Press decided to publish a book out of the exhibit, and culled diary excerpts and poems from the massive, 1,500-page collection of musings on HootPage.com..." That's a passing mention, not significant coverage. The closer we get to actual facts about the company, the more we have to rely on primary sources and blogs, and even that is not enough to avoid WP:OR and WP:SYN. Also, notability is not inherited; publishing the books of notable authors doesn't make the publisher notable. Huon (talk) 22:55, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
  • CommentReviewing

I read "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material."

Several articles about the authors are about their new books from Three Room Press. There would be no article about the author unless they had a new book out. The press is mentioned as the publisher. If TRP didn't publish their book then no article would exist to be cited. The primary subject is a book -- a product of TRP. For instance The Rumpus writes "The occasion of the conversation was the release of a catalogue (On and Off Bass, available from Three Rooms Press) of Watt’s digital photographs of the San Pedro waterfront ..."

Also I've included several 3rd party sources that are not personal blogs. Personal blogs are not the primary source of information. I've cited articles from various news zines and a couple literary journals:

  • The Pedestal Magazine
  • The Quarterly Conversation
  • Long Island Pulse Magazine
  • Los Angeles Review of Books
  • Rocker: The Lifestyle Magazine for Mature Rockers
  • Now.
  • Pitchfork
  • The Boston Globe
  • Explain.CA
  • The Rumpus

GetDaFacts (talk) 05:14, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

"Publishing is the process of production and dissemination of literature, music, or information — the activity of making information available to the general public." Articles covering book releases are covering an essential part of publishing. Note these articles are not simply book release announcements they are author interviews and book reviews.

with regards to MTV, production includes editing so article discussing the publisher's selection is hitting on another essential part of a book publisher's activity. GetDaFacts (talk) 05:39, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Delete - in reality this article is purely promotional, while much of it is not about the company at all. The few notable authors allegedly published by the company are unproven or of questionable importance. I'm not aware of a notability guideline for book publishers, but companies generally aren't conferred notability because of their products. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NCORP. Sionk (talk) 16:17, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Not sure what your comment "notable authors allegedly published by" the company refers to. Either they were, or they were not. According to worldcat, they were. AuthorAuthor (talk) 14:26, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
The list was unsourced. The sentence is fairly self explanatory, They were allegedly notable too. Sionk (talk) 14:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep This article is about a notable small literary press. The article includes the typical information about book publishers found in Knowledge. To start, a brief history of when, where, who founded; followed by information about their notable authors and publications. Several 3rd party sources are cited and listed including book reviews and new articles.

First Suffolk County Poet Laureate is notable. This is a prestigious award. Poet Laureate of Riker's with NY Times Article is notable. Vice President Editorial of major dance industry publication is notable. Founder of Minute Men rock back in notable. etc. Two of the authors are in the news with article about their book from TRP. One headline even includes TRP. One of their publication in archived in MoMA library collection. MoMA is an internationally regarded museum. GetDaFacts (talk) 05:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Why can't this page be redirected to a list of publishers? They must satisfy WP:NOTESAL as a group, and that allows for the inclusion of individually non-notable items in lists. James500 (talk) 19:43, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Where an article cites a book, we don't really want the publisher to be a redlink if it is possible to avoid that, because we want to know, amongst other things, that the publisher is not a vanity press. James500 (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Although the information provided on this page is provided by Three Rooms Press, its actual inclusion in Poets & Writers' listings for small presses seems to be based on objectively assessed criteria ("we do confirm that each publisher adheres to our standards for inclusion"). I suggest that Three Rooms Press should be included in and redirected to List of small presses on the strength of that, if it is not established to be independently notable. James500 (talk) 20:58, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I oppose the outright deletion of this article. James500 (talk) 21:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment the source of the much of the information included about subject is not available from the subject webpage or blog. For instance a list of books was gather from WorldCat and Amazon. Information regarding the contents of the annual Maintenant 7 was garnished from a physical copy of the book. 67.85.159.0 (talk) 20:35, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Userfy, for (possible) inclusion in a list of small publishers. Article's subject does not meet WP:CORPDEPTH: "Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject is not sufficient to establish notability". As for reducing the article to a stub, the notability guideline makes no distinction for article size. Miniapolis 13:39, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Also SK#1 (nom withdrawn). (non-admin closure) czar · · 10:09, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Cave in Sumatra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No indication of notability, although a claim of importance has been made.  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:20, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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  • Comment It is a little better than that: the cave is the first example of rock art in Sumatra, and the source of the largest number of skeletons found on any site in Indonesia, so those are two claims to notability, and the article is now referenced. I would be thinking about a merge to Archaeology in Sumatra if such an article existed; meanwhile, this stub/start is not much worse than some other articles on Sumatran archaeology. If we decide not to keep it at the moment, I'd be willing to begin Archaeology in Sumatra in my user space to gather up what we have on this and other archaeological sites in Sumatra into something referenced and readable. Ping me if needed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:23, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying. This changes my take.Truth or consequences-2 (talk) 16:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:58, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Sky Cabs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Article has not been updated in a year. Found only one source about the company contradicting what was placed on the article. Article has no sources on that information. For the information on the one source I did find, I could not verify. The source is http://www.boatshowsrilanka.com/34/book-travel-on-sky-cabs.html & there is no date on that article Unknowntbeast (talk) 02:48, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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  • Keep. I found , according to which the airline existed from 1993 to 2000 and operated a few Antonov An-8 and Antonov An-12. Per another source , an An-12 of the company crashed on 24 March 2000, killing 6. This accident had quite an impact on civil aviation in Sri Lanka: All cargo operators were grounded and re-certified, and the An-12 was banned from operating within the country. Further information about the airline can be found at flightglobal.com, for example Therefore, I come to the conclusion that Sky Cabs is notable, and that it has been the subject of sufficient, reliable media coverage to pass WP:CORP. I have placed the article on my to-do list, and will rewrite it as soon as possible.--FoxyOrange (talk) 06:46, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep. A non-trivial operator whose crash indeed changed air operations in Sri Lanka and quite possibly beyond.Truth or consequences-2 (talk) 12:24, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep - Clearly notable based on the references provided by FoxyOrange. öBrambleberry of RiverClan 23:40, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep as notable it was an operator albiet leased of Antonov freighters on international services as well as one serious accident passes the bar. Could do with improvement from stub rather than deletion. MilborneOne (talk) 11:51, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Keep - The found sources indicate it was a real and influential airline operator and had non-trivial coverage to boot. --Oakshade (talk) 20:44, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
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→Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 21:31, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Michig (talk) 06:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Madcow Productions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Shameless self promotion by a non notable individual for his non notable company. The article has no references, apart from link to company web page and twitter account of owner. No reliable sources have been found in the last 6 years; other companies by the same name seem more notable, searching with company name and name of owner produces at best random forum posts. Petri Krohn (talk) 02:25, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. J04n(talk page) 20:14, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Gynandromorphophilia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Renomination following the closure of Knowledge:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Sexology, which was closed with a result of defer. The rationale for the last AfD still stands:

POV–FRINGE-fork of Attraction to transgender people, written in such a way that it appears benign. This article was brought up by me at Knowledge:Administrators' noticeboard/HebephiliaIncident into scrutiny of User:James Cantor's contributions, and I defer to SlimVirgin (talk · contribs)'s analysis:

James created Gynandromorphophilia in August 2012. We already had an article on that subject at, first, Transfan, then Attraction to transgender people, so Gynandromorphophilia is arguably a POV fork. According to MOSMED, we are supposed to use "the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources." I searched for this term on PubMed, and at that time found only two examples: a paper by the inventor of the term, Ray Blanchard, a close colleague of James at CAMH, and one other from Hungary. I asked James at the AfD for other examples of its use, but there was no response. The article was kept, but it seems to be a clear example of editing to promote a little-used term (and the perspective associated with it), with the result that Knowledge is causing the spread of it, rather than merely (or also) reflecting that spread.

From looking at the article, this analysis seems to check out. The giveaway sentence to me is in the lead section, "Gynandromorphophilia and autogynephilia have been noted to be important considerations in the assessment of Gender Identity Disorder.": autogynephilia is only really important for its inclusion as part of Ray Blanchard's controversial fringe theory of transgender typology.

I do also notice that the primary contributor, Cantor, is a colleague of Blanchard at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, and a noted advocate of Blanchard's typology. On the balance of this, I would assume that it was a FRINGE article created by someone with a similar FRINGE conflict of interest outside his normal line of work on sexology. Sceptre 15:47, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Sceptre 19:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
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I agree this article should be deleted. Some of the content is interesting and has scholarly sources to back it up, but I think it could better be addressed as a subsection of the "Attraction to transgender people" article. I agree that the concept of "gyandromorphophilia" is simply a POV term for what a some researchers believe about sexual attraction to transgender people, but as this current article is written, the impression is given that these researchers' view is the sole view on this topic. Rebecca (talk) 03:26, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Merge Attraction to transgender people into Gynandromorphophilia.
1. WP:MEDMOS: "The article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name)."
2. Scholar.google hits for gynandromorphophilia: 17. Scholar.google hits for "attraction to transgender people": 1.
3. The sources using gynandromorphophilia are peer-reviewed articles in high-end relevant medical journals and texts by major medical publishing houses. The sources using alternative terms do not use any term universally, with each employing descriptions rather than any specific term at all. It is perfectly legitimate for folks to want to "de-medicalize" what they perceive to be societal issues, but WP is not the place for conducting a campaign to do so. If there is a POV fork here, it is to break the lay mentions away from the expert use in order to de-medicalize the topic.
4. The sources using alternative terms are very low quality. For example, although it is perfectly fine to indicate that "In 'Diary of a Drag Queen' Daniel Harris describes four types of men interested in him while he was cross-dressed" and that porn star Buck Angel has a following, but such references to personal experiences from individual non-experts cannot serve as RS's to establish the terminology used by relevant experts and the body of RS's.
— James Cantor (talk) 12:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
James Cantor, are you kidding me? Rename the "attraction to transgender people" article "gyandromorphophilia"? For your information, we are not seeking to "de-medicalize" anything. Attraction to transgender people is not currently "medicalized," at all. Very few people seek any sort of medical intervention for this perfectly natural attraction, and the "technical term" for the supposedly related condition that you and Ray Blanchard have come up with is not in the DSM or in any other reputable classification of psychiatric and/or medical conditions. Furthermore, even taking your bogus, fringe concept of "gyandromorphophilia" at face value, it supposedly describes a "preference" for transgender people, not merely "attraction" to them. Or you are saying it impossible for anyone to find transgender people sexually attractive IN ANY WAY unless they have a specific medical condition (a medical condition that coincidentally enjoys very limited recognition in the medical community.) Give me a break. Rebecca (talk) 18:31, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Actually, WP puts sexual interests under their technical names, regardless:
No one has made any argument for why this sexual attraction should be treated differently from every other one. Indeed, none of the arguments appears to acknowledge that an exception is what is being asked for. I'm just arguing for treating this sexual attraction like any other.
— James Cantor (talk) 19:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I certainly would not argue with you what the usual approach would be, either now or 8 months ago. However, WP policy and precedent are very clear that sexual interests have their content listed under their technical/medical/Greek-derived names, regardless of stigma or political correctness, regardless of rarity, regardless of DSM status. Your suggestions for how to proceed would put the pages farther away from compliance rather than closer to it. Withdrawing this AfD and then merging Attraction to transgender people into Gynandromorphophilia, however, would bring us closer.— James Cantor (talk) 13:59, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
The difference, James, is that "homosexual," "heterosexual," and "pedophilia" are widely accepted technical terms for the sexual interests they describe. "Gyandromorphophilia" is a little known term invented by you and your friends that, as I've said, has not been endorsed by the DSM or anybody else. In other words, it is NOT the technical term for attraction to transgender people, although you seem to desperately want it to be. Also, you have failed to respond to the distinction I'm making between "attraction to transgender people" and "preference for transgender people" (which is what "gyandromorphophilia" is supposedly about). Do you fail to see this distinction? Rebecca (talk) 23:48, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
It is entirely true that it is a rarely used term. It is also entirely irrelevant:
1. The lay-term is used 1/17th as much by RS's than is "gynandromorphophilia." It makes no sense to make an exception to WP's rules arguing rarity, only to replace the term with one that's even more rare. For reference I have already posted the scholar.google results here.
2. List of paraphilias provides many dozens of examples of other paraphilic interests, including multiple terms much rarer than gynandromorphophilia, but which still get treated exactly as I say this topic should be: Content under the technical term. There is no policy saying to make an exception for rare terms, and the articles linked to List of paraphilias shows that WP actually does the opposite of what you are advocating when a term is rare.
3. The DSM is irrelevant. List of paraphilias and multiple RS's provide lists of several hundred paraphilias. Fewer than a dozen are named in the DSM. On WP, however, each one has its content listed on the page with its technical name, whether it's in the DSM or not.
Finally, I am not addressing the incorrect beliefs you have about how sex researchers use the terms "attraction" and "preference" (and, I will add, "interest") because your misconceptions are irrelevant to what WP policies are (none of which have you cited and none of which support your conclusion). Moreover, if you take your thought to its conclusion, you will realize that you are arguing for two pages: one for attraction and one for preference.
— James Cantor (talk) 13:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
James, you bring up a valid point. Knowledge has MANY articles about bogus paraphilias that have been cooked up by fringe sexual busybodies such as yourself. You are right it's inconsistent to delete the article on gyandromorphophilia without deleting all the other ones. I say we should delete all of them. And honestly, the actual conclusion of my thought is not what you suggest. The actual conclusion is that we should delete both the Knowledge page on gynandromorphophilia AND the Knowledge page on "attraction to transgender people". . .after all, there is no Knowledge articles called "attraction to cisgender people," "attraction to white people," "attraction to supermodels" and so on (because these things are considered normal and therefore doesn't get analyzed in depth by exoticizing voyeurs like you, James). Since this Article of Deletion discussion is only about gynandromorphophilia, however, I've been focusing on that. You want to know what Knowledge policies support my argument? How about Knowledge:Notability, Knowledge:NPOV, and Knowledge:What Knowledge is not. You know, the big ones. Your ideas are extremely fringe (not notable), your articles are biased (not NPOV), and you are using Knowledge as a soapbox to promote your bullshit (and Knowledge is not a soapbox). . .(I guess I'm using Knowledge a little like a soapbox right here, but I only do that in Talk pages. . .I never do it in my articles or article edits.) Rebecca (talk) 18:44, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
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  • Comment This seems to be a bit of a conundrum. I agree with Cantor's reasoning as to why Gynandromorphophilia is a more appropriate title than Attraction to transgender people, but I also agree with SV's reasoning regarding the article being a content fork. Because I'm conflicted between policy and efficiency, I can't !vote keep or delete. Instead, I propose for the sake of expediency (remember, we don't have firm rules), that what ever content is worthy of including from Attraction to transgender people be integrated into Gynandromorphophilia and that their histories be merged. Additionally, I don't find Rebecca's counterarguments to be convincing as, while it is true that gynandromorphophilia is not a widely used term, it is the term used in the highest quality sources, and "attraction to transgender people" is not really a term so much as it is a colloquialism. Sædon 06:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: while "gyandromorpohilia" has seventeen results on Google Scholar, a quick-and-dirty search for two redirects, "gynemimetophilia" (attraction to femme men and trans women) has 41, and "andromimetophilia" (attraction to butch women and trans men) has 17. Any merge should be towards the descriptive title, if there's any worthwhile content worth merging. Sceptre 20:21, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
    • That is correct. "Gynemimetophilia" would indeed meet the applicable WP rules. I created the Gynemimetophilia page (here) at the same time as the Gynandromorphilia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Gynandromorphophilia&diff=506112481&oldid=324153639 here]). Although I dislike the term gynemimetophilia (no reason to refer to trans women as merely mimicking natal women). The AfD of that article is here. — James Cantor (talk) 21:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
    • Sceptre, please excuse my ignorance of trans* topics if I'm missing something obvious, but aren't gyandromorpohilia, gynemimetophilia, and andromimetophilia three distinct concepts (btw, would someone mind explaining to me what the * means after trans? I know it's respectful to use it but I have no idea what it means)? Additionally, regardless of the answer to that question, don't you think that Attraction to transgender people is a colloquialism more than it is a proper title, as I mentioned in my above comment? Sædon 09:43, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
      • From my perception, they're circles on a venn diagram with a considerable amount of overlap. I personally think that a descriptive title for all three terms is more wise, especially when one term is linked so much with a fringe theory. As regards to the asterisk, it's a wildcard, and implies a greater degree of inclusivity within the term as without (which, in some circles, can be taken to mean only people undergoing transition). Sceptre 14:12, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment. Sceptre is entitled to her perceptions, of course, but the WP content policy is very clear. I am purposefully not engaging the personal attacks above, but I would direct the closing admin to the findings of the recently closed ArbCom case, Knowledge:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Sexology, indicating exactly the opposite of Sceptre's allegations about me and putting this whole topic under discretionary sanctions. (Also relevant are the edit warring at the gynandromorphophilia age, the consensus at FTN that this is not fringe, and the simultaneous AfD of autoandrophilia.)— James Cantor (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I've replied to this at Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Autoandrophilia, as Cantor has raised the same points there. Sceptre 03:18, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was merge to Cendol. Courcelles 00:32, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Lod Chong Singapore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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See WP:NOTRECIPE. There is no information about the history of the dessert, although a quick Google Search assures me that it does, indeed, exist. öBrambleberry of RiverClan 02:06, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. It's entirely possible the individual is notable, but the consensus here is that there is insufficient coverage available, in any language, to demonstrate that notability and produce a verifiable article. ~ mazca 14:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Azhagu Muthu Kone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Aside from this story from 2012 in The Hindu, which records a seemingly politicised documentary about Kone and acknowledges that he is poorly-recorded in history, I can find no reliable sources for him using GBooks, GScholar or JSTOR. I have tried some alternate transliterations and a couple of names that one unreliable source mentions. He appears to fail WP:GNG. - Sitush (talk) 20:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

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  • Who mentioned western scholars? That is not what the source says and I certainly didn't mention them. Some of us are capable of searching a little wider than the output of, say, western university presses, and asking questions of people "on the ground".
  • The documentary appears never to have been released following the "launch" and it seems to have been produced by a politician who seems to be admitting there is little known about the guy.
  • The launch was tied to a more significant political cause, ie: enhancing Kone's alleged community's claim under India's positive discrimination legislation
  • From the sound of things, it is not really a documentary anyway but rather a cobbled-up piece of untitled film of indeterminate length that is based on some sort of legend. Nothing wrong with articles about legends if the provenance of the sources is ok, of course, but clearly it is not here.
  • One documentary does not make for substantial independent coverage, and given that it is almost certainly mostly fictionalised, surely it would not suffice as a source in its own right
  • No, sorry. The title is unknown and my attempts to find out more via people in India have hit a brick wall. One person whom I have not yet asked is SpacemanSpiff. I'm not at liberty to explain the circumstances but I believe that he is still active in the wider WP arena and I know just how fantastically co-operative he can be. I'll drop him an email but I suspect this might be outside his linguistic sphere. Most of those whom I have asked are not involved with WP at all. You'll just have to take my word for that, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 00:53, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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The result was redirect to Disney Junior (international)#Asia Pacific. (non-admin closure) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:59, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Disney Junior Asia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Forking, notabilityjcnJohn Chen (Talk-Contib.) RA 10:10, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Michig (talk) 06:20, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Dean Wiand (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable, does not meet GNG. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 01:19, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

  1. Speedy Delete as it seems that the page creator blanked the page after the original PROD request which qualifies it for WP:CSD#G7. Technical 13 (talk) 01:21, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
information Administrator note I declined the CSD because the blanking occurred a very long time ago and other editors have edited the article since then. I think it would be best to let the AfD run its course. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:36, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
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