Knowledge

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The result was redirect to Branded to Kill#Cast. (non-admin closure) —Theopolisme (talk) 15:15, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Mariko Ogawa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This actress has only appeared in one film, Branded to Kill from 1967, and thus completely fails WP:NACTOR. There does not appear to be any third-party coverage of the individual herself which is not related to the film. JoshuSasori (talk) 23:47, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. --Cameron11598 (Converse) 00:41, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Redirect to Branded to Kill#Cast. I'm unable to find significant coverage for this person and she does not appear to meet WP:ENT. I think redirecting is reasonable as it seems likely that readers trying to search for her would be doing so because of the film.  Gong show 08:35, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  I think that is a good idea, if no-one else cares to comment on this deletion proposal I would accept that. JoshuSasori (talk) 00:57, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect to Branded to Kill#Cast as above. I am struggling to find any significant coverage of this person to demonstrate notability. Even Japanese Knowledge does not appear to have an article on her. --DAJF (talk) 03:07, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Redirect to Branded to Kill#Cast. Only one role? Unless that role received coverage, then she isn't notable. Narutolovehinata5 10:32, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Redirect to Branded to Kill#Cast. The single role is not sufficient to justify an article. Michitaro (talk) 03:49, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:31, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Dr K Murugesan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The subject of the article seems to be known only for the one event and thus fails our notability requirements per WP:BLP1E. There's no evidence of coverage in multiple reliable sources, and there's no way to hunt for more sources, as we are not even provided with his full name. Dianna (talk) 23:41, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete as a sub-species of promotion—an anti-attack page. הסרפד (call me “Hasirpad”) (formerly R——bo) 00:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
  • And possibly an attempt to influence legal process? הסרפד (call me “Hasirpad”) (formerly R——bo) 01:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete No way to gather information on Dr. Murugesan without his first name. The notability can not be notified - fails WP:NRVE and he seems to only be notable for one event and thus fails WP:GNG--Cameron11598 (Converse) 01:28, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• I have no comment on the substantive issue of keeping/deleting, but must point out that is common in South Asia for people to be known publicly simply by initial and family name, so the absence of a complete first name is not necessarily a sign of lack of notability, and there is no lack of verifiability, as can be seen by the results of the Google News archive search linked above. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete. The incident received some coverage, but not the doctor. Fails WP:BIO. Salih (talk) 17:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom, one-event case.--GDibyendu (talk) 19:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Confused The event seems to be important, this doctor allowed his 15 year old son to conduct a caesarian surgery which got huge media attention, Guiness book record etc, Gurdian, MSN, Fox News. Search with his son's name "Dhileepan Raj Guinness record ". --Tito Dutta (talk) 18:17, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was Speedily deleted per A7. "Fails Google test" is not a great rationale on its own for an AfD, but in this case, it doesn't matter. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 07:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Vevekay (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails the Google Test (267 results) Kinkreet 23:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - The page's already tagged for speedy deletion, but if it gets declined, I'm !voting delete, since I can't find any WP:RS. ZappaOMati 23:57, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment First of all, searching this on Google and the amount of results does not have any correlation with notability. JayJay 23:58, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Yes you are right, and I can give multiple reasons, but the Google Test is a good way to make the case that it is not notable more plausible. Whether it is notable is up for discussion. Kinkreet 00:00, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• I still don't think that's a good reason for deletion though JayJay 00:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• A search engine test is a requirement for all deletion discussions. It's a means to finding reliable sources in which if none are found by doing a standard search engine test through news, books, and scholar, then it should be considered a strong candidate for deletion. Furthermore, every AfD purposefully links the 'Find Sources' template for this specific reason. Mkdw 01:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete and possible salt. This article has been recreated for the third time in 48 hours. Does not meet WP:BAND and a WP:SET is a mandatory function of WP:BEFORE thus making it not only a good reason for deletion, but a required precursor to every AfD. Mkdw 01:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was DELETE. Unfortunately, given that this is a unique situation without it's own criteria for notability, multiple rules must be amalgamated and interpreted in spirit, rather than by the letter. As some users have pointed out, this article does not technically meet the criteria for WP:ONEEVENT, as we are not dealing with an event as such, but more a series of events (this woman's life) leading to a single fact which they argue denotes notability. However it appears quite clear that this single fact is not notable enough to stand on its own as a criteria for notability. The closest existing rule to this assertion can be found here (A being in this case the subject and well-known person B being the President or age-group respectively)

The second consideration for deletion is notability. Though the subject obviously meets WP:GNG they similarly obviously fail the general criteria for biographies, specifically criteria two as there is no evidence that an enduring record (significant enough for notability as seen in criteria one) will be made of this woman simply because of her age.

Given the difficulty of interpreting these rules in unique cases such as this it may be pertinent to create a subsection of WP:Notability to deal with the wider issues at play here. However, working within the existing framework, this appears to be the logical conclusion of this AfD. Panyd 15:15, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Mary Byrne (centenarian) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This person had zero notability during her lifetime. Simply being the oldest person of a particular nation at the point of death does not confer notability. Fails WP:GNG. PROD was declined without explanation. Safiel (talk) 17:33, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete, fails GNG. Hairhorn (talk) 19:51, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete - per WP:GNG Snappy (talk) 20:51, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep there are plenty of other centenarians who have pages on here as well and the only thing they were really known for was being old so why delete this page ? Entity of the Void (talk) 04:28, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

• The thing about being a centenarian is that unless they've accomplished something notable, they're not considered to be notable enough to have their own article. That other articles exist doesn't really mean anything, as it might just mean that the article has yet to be brought up for AfD or otherwise redirected to another article. Now when the centenarian is dead, that's where it gets tricky. If they didn't reach the status of supercentenarian (110+), then the redirect and article should be deleted as far as I can tell per the rules here on Knowledge.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:47, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

• Agree with previous poster per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Many of those other articles would be deleted if they faced an AfD. Safiel (talk) 05:47, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - She was covered in widely read publications. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 21:27, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

  Question - covered how? Do you mean her death was covered or something she did during her life? As has been pointed out, while living to over 100 is an achievement, it alone does not make the person notable. Snappy (talk) 22:21, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - Does WP:ONEEVENT not apply here? The subject seems to only be notable for one event - dying at 108 years old. The coverage seems to only cover this one even. I don't see how that establishes notability per WP:GNG. I could be convinced that this case is fundamentally different but it seems to me that picking an arbitrary number (at what age does one become notable?) isn't something that Knowledge has ever done but if we're covering what humans consider notable, represented by significant and independent coverage from reliable sources, there has been some coverage. Still, that coverage verges on non-significant as it only covers her age. As an example, I've seen longer obituaries but that doesn't make a person notable, even though it can be covered in several reliable and independent sources. What's the difference? Again, it seems to be an arbitrary number. At least the references used in the article aren't in the obituary section. That at least leaves the door open for an argument. OlYeller21 05:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
• Merge with Oldest_people There are 196 countries in the world. Are we going to create articles about the oldest person from each one? On the other hand, informative and verifiable content should be kept (somewhere) wherever possible. CorporateM (Talk) 19:10, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - covered by significant news sources. Not saying the oldest ethnic person of each country is notable, however. RoyalMate1 03:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

  Then how is this person notable with only two news articles that were created in the wake of their death? OlYeller21 05:12, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete As has been pointed out, there are 196 countries in the world, the oldest person in each country probably changes every few years, if we treat anyone who was the oldest person in any country even in the past few decades as inherently notable then we have several hundred articles on our hands. Knowledge is not paper, but there are limits. There are some things might be inherently notable, e.g. making it to supercenenarian. PatGallacher (talk) 13:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete for failing WP:ONEEVENT as mentioned above and, to a lesser extent, WP:N in regards to the level of sourcing. Canadian Paul 16:55, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep She was Ireland's oldest person. Longevitydude (talk) 18:37, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

  What notability guideline does that satisfy? OlYeller21 20:39, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

She was honored by the office of President of Ireland Michael D. Higgins as the country's oldest citizen. Longevitydude (talk) 13:13, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —Theopolisme (talk) 22:45, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep I have just merged in information from an AFC submission, and I added four more independent sources, including two unique ones from the ones that were already there. Thus, she has been covered by many news sites, and there are probably more out there if anyone decided to put a concentrated effort into this. I would have closed this as a non-administrator in light of those developments, but I'll let someone else figure it out. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 22:22, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  It's a good thing you didn't close the discussion as a !voter and as you, at the very least, haven't changed my mind. I'm still seeing that just being the oldest person in a county doesn't satisfy any inclusion guideline. I think others here feel the same. So far, you're the only keep !voter that hasn't failed to answer the questions of others. OlYeller21 01:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

  Country, not just her county. Longevitydude (talk) 16:06, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

  I meant country but missed the 'r'. As several others have stated, where is the line drawn? There are 196 countries and based on this loose, non-consensus, inclusion guideline, are we to include 196 people at any given time. Each time one of those 196 die, we add another? Why not go by state/province? What about continent? By country is an arbitrary distinction that no one seems to have been able to justify yet - just agree with. It seems much more logical to keep a list of Oldest people, if we consider being very old, notable. OlYeller21 16:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

  Honestly I'd say state/province is a good line to draw, though I'm someone who thinks every city and town is notable. Longevitydude (talk) 16:30, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment As nominator, I still support delete in light of what has been since added to the article, for the reasons I enunciated before and for the reasons others have enunciated in support of delete. Also, I would STRONGLY object to anybody other than an uninvolved administrator attempting to close this. This is a contested AfD and a non-admin close is impermissible. Safiel (talk) 18:28, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete As per WP:N, WP:ONEVENT and, I suspect, WP:ORPHAN. DerbyCountyinNZ 08:13, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

  She was noted not just for the title, but also for her birthdays, and those sources prove it. It's not an Orphan either, their are other articles about Irish centenarians. Longevitydude (talk) 13:10, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

  I've only seen references that she was the oldest person and then died as the oldest person. To me, oldest person = one event. I haven't seen any coverage otherwise. Have you? OlYeller21 20:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

  Yes, her article has sources covering her 107th and 108th birthdays. Longevitydude (talk) 22:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

  Exactly. Only articles that cover her being the oldest person. Her actual age is as relevant as her name. Again, do you have any articles that cover her age before she was the oldest person in the country? OlYeller21 23:27, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

  Thats irrelevant because the birthday and the gaining of a new title are two separate events. Longevitydude (talk) 23:19, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

  I might agree with you if there was coverage that was gained for a reason other than her being the oldest person in the country. That's what I keep asking you to provide - significant coverage from an independent and reliable source that was created for a reason other than because she was the oldest person in the country. OlYeller21 23:28, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

  I did, her 108th birthday was covered. Longevitydude (talk) 23:53, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

  Yes. Thank you. You've proven my point that the only coverage of her was for the one event I've mentioned numerous times. I'm starting to get the feeling that you're being dense on purpose to conflate the conversation to make it appear that anyone with a keep !vote has an actual reason to ignore WP:ONEEVENT. Unless you have something new to bring up, I will no longer be responding to you. OlYeller21 06:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

  Thank you for that rather repetitive response, but it is you who ignores the fact that the birthday and title are separate events, her 108th birthday probably would've been mentioned title or no title. I'm sure their were originally articles for her 107 and maybe earlier birthdays, but there is this thing called a "deal link" that I'm sure those articles unfortunately became. Longevitydude (talk) 16:17, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

  The only birthday coverage was due to one event - her being the oldest person. You keep mentioning other articles that "probably" or "would have" existed but can't provide any. Until you can prove that any article existed as coverage of her outside of the one event (again, her being the oldest person), you're talking in circles about things you apparently can't prove. OlYeller21 16:27, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

  I don't know why I've been arguing with someone who states on their userpage that they, "sympathize with other members whose articles got afds". I think you're ignoring WP:ONEEVENT because you feel bad about this article being deleted and are attempting to subvert any legitimate conversation by saying that articles should have and would have existed, all while being completely unable to provide an article that covered this subject outside of the one event. Hopefully you have nothing to do with SPAs showing up to !vote. OlYeller21 18:31, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep. Recognised by the President's office (how much more official can you get on these matters?) and has long-standing significant coverage in multiple reliable sources, dating from before her death as well, thereby satisfying SIGCOV/GNG, and, this being an encyclopedia, so of course it would stock "oldest people". --86.40.107.199 (talk) 18:06, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

  Why ignore WP:ONEEVENT? OlYeller21 18:26, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Because it permits an article on a guy known for seeing someone get killed? Yet you want to use it to query an article on a woman officially recognised by the President's office? Clearly you don't understand what one event actually means. --86.40.107.199 (talk) 18:56, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• See WP:OTHERSTUFF. What notability guideline does being recognized by the president of Ireland satisfy? OlYeller21 19:20, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• What other stuff? How does that apply either? You aren't making any sense. I trust that that the reviewing administrator will have the good sense to completely discount your contributions. You've certainly done your level best to discount mine. --86.40.107.199 (talk) 19:51, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• You should really read what I linked. It basically mentions that citing that other situations exist on Knowledge is not a good argument. Situations are independent here and precedents don't really hold any value. OlYeller21 19:58, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Note - I have reported Longevitydude at ANI. It appears that there is a long list of concerns regarding off-Wiki canvassing and special attention paid to !voting Keep on AfDs related to people of age. The list includes SPIs, ArbCom hearings, ANI reports of altering comments, and being banned from websites dedicated to studying old people (I couldn't think of a better way to describe that website). The SPA anon above was listed there as well. OlYeller21 19:20, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Is that me you are attacking in that derogatory manner? This is the first I've heard about being listed on any website dedicated to studying old people. By the way, if that is me you are calling a "SPA", you should really take a closer look at my contributions. The only reason I've had to make more than one edit here is to respond to your insidious remarks. I have nothing to do with "Longevitydude" and I take umbrage at your shocking attitude, your appalling lack of good faith, and your attempts to discredit anyone who holds an opposing opinion. --86.40.107.199 (talk) 19:47, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• You are an WP:SPA because the first edit you ever edit you ever made had to do with age and the second was to this AFD. That's not exactly the editing habits of someone who's new to WP or just stumbled upon this AfD (somehow) and started citing guidelines. If you normally edit from another account or IP, noting that on your userpage would be beneficial to you. Regardless, this really isn't the place to make such comments. You should be doing that at the ANI thread. I have only brought up an issue. I haven't accused you of any wrong doing but try to see it from the perspective of others. It appears as though you came out of the woodwork just to !vote here. You can easily correct this issue via the method I mentioned above and commenting at ANI. There's really no reason to be offended. If there's nothing fishy going on, you can easily dispel any confusion. OlYeller21 19:58, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• You have some nerve. The only thing fishy going on is your attempt to disrupt the contributions of anyone who disagrees with your POV. It's listed here. Why shouldn't I "stumble upon" it any more than anyone else here has stumbled upon it? Who said anything about having to be new? I contribute now and again, I have no control over what number I appear as, or when I appear as it, and I don't mess around with user pages - they're nothing but decorations and a waste of time. This is supposed to be "the 💕 that anyone can edit" - that's some joke. Make one edit and there's somebody there just waiting to report you for breaking some rule or another. You can take it or leave it, I couldn't care less, I have better things to be doing. A SPA? "Limited to one very narrow area or set of articles, or whose edits to many articles appear to be for a common purpose"? Some SPA I am - football, handball, reading, pollution, a plumber, a landslide, war, a dead lady. You're beyond contempt. --86.40.107.199 (talk) 21:55, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Others can draw their own conclusion. You were an SPA when you came here and your second edit was to an AfD - not something new editors stumble upon. You could have avoided all of this by just mentioning what other IPs you've edited under but for some reason, you choose not to. There's no need to get so upset about it. Would you not think something was fishy if you were in my shoes? OlYeller21 01:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete: per nom and others plus WP:N and WP:ONEVENT. BTW the President of Ireland recognises all Irish centenarians, So what is notable about that? ww2censor (talk) 19:30, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete:, a WP:ONEVENT. Being the oldest person in the world is probably notable, but being oldest in a single country, not really. Being noted by the president isn't a big deal either, in the US the president will send a greeting to anyone over 80 (70 for veterans), plus various other random events such as bar mitzvahs. Front page news it ain't. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - I would like to explain old yeller's misrepresentation of one event.

"One event" was intended that, if someone were the witness to an event or a participant in one event, then they are not notable just because they did an interview for TV In the case of someone notable for age, the person is notable due to their age, not just an "event". Being recognized as Ireland's oldest person at 107 and dying at 108 are two events, anyway. Old Yeller21 is profoundly misstating and misusing WP: ONE EVENT. Basically, what he is saying is that someone can NEVER be notable for age, and only notable if they were famous before old age. But the Jeanne Calment article proves that is not true. So, use Jeanne Calment as an example that, firstly, someone CAN be noted for age only, and secondly, since Calment's age coverage lasted far more than one event, ONE EVENT doesn't apply. Longevitydude (talk) 23:56, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Heres perhaps a better clarification as my previous post

" If people read the WP: One Event guidelines, someone who is notable only due to their link in one event (for example, a witness gives an interview to a fire; the man who filmed the Rodney King beating, etc) is not usually notable, unless the person was involved in planning the event beforehand. For example, assassins such as Garilov Princip may be notable because they planned out the event beforehand." When it comes to "old age," old age is NOT an event. Celebrating a 114th birthday is an event. Becoming the WOP is an event. Being 114 is NOT an event. There is a difference. Longevitydude (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• Obviously, several people disagree with you. Put simply, she wasn't the world's oldest person as you mention. That's very different. She was only covered for one thing, twice, and something that several people here don't feel establishes notability. OlYeller21 01:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

• Obviously several people agree with me. Put simply, I didn't say she was the world's oldest person, I was giving an example. Several people here do feel that establishes notability. Longevitydude (talk) 16:07, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

• Weak delete - known only for being the oldest person in Ireland at the time of her death, there seems to be little biographical information to sustain an article (apart from her dietary habits) despite her death being covered in several news sources. Sionk (talk) 00:12, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - I would like some, but I'm not asure if there is, any consensus about whether being the oldest person living in one's country is sufficient -- by itself -- for notability. Can we have some clarification? Bearian (talk) 21:42, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

It's probably a discussion that's taken place before, considering peoples' comments above about supercentenarians. Maybe someone needs to create a "List of oldest people in Ireland". I see the previous two incumbents died in quick succession. Sionk (talk) 23:00, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Without trying to create new policy, I'd say it logically follows along the lines of our general consensus for world record holders, since they're essentially local record holders. Broadly speaking, while some record holders are notable for other things (like athletics & music records), and a few have spun world records into general notability (the fattest twins became wrestlers), but there's loads of precedent that simply holding a record and being in the Guinness Book isn't notable on its own. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 23:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

• Selective merge to Oldest people, per CorporateM and WP:BIO1E. -- Trevj (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:02, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Charmed Progenies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I can't find any evidence of the existence of this program. Contested prod. ... discospinster _talk 19:21, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete - Lacks reliable sources. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 21:24, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —Theopolisme (talk) 22:44, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - Unsourced, and unsourceable. This would appear to be a TV series based on Charmed, a televsion series that ran for 8 seasons. It boggles the mind that a sequel / spin-off series slated to air in 2013 has completely escaped the notice of reliable sources. The article istelf babbles on about season 3 when there hasn't even been a season 1. This appears to be a hoax. -- Whpq (talk) 23:04, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Speedy delete as a hoax. Utter lack of references and no entry in IMDb, either as a series or as a credit for Holly Marie Combs. It's just fan fiction. Who would cast three nobodies as the leads of a TV series, and what kind of a title is Charmed Progenies? Clarityfiend (talk) 01:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was WP:WITHDRAWN. (non-admin closure) Mkdw 08:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Woolrich (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Not notable. A claim of notability has been made, so WP:CSD#A7 is no longer appropriate. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep. Famous old American company, as shown by the sources now in the article and bunches of additional sources shown at GNews, HighBeam, etc. --Arxiloxos (talk) 21:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep No shortage of sources in Google and Google Books, and I added another to article. Did the proposer do WP:BEFORE? --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:29, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - I have also improved the article as much as I can. Unfortunately, though, it seems the company hasn't received much news coverage in the past few years and they have been experiencing financial problems so this may be to blame. I have found several recent press releases so they may have resorted to using press releases now. However, for now, I think the article is better than before and the company has established a fair amount of notability. SwisterTwister talk 23:31, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep When you get see a 183 year old company it should raise some keep flags. Google news archive results as far back as 1936, and consistent mentions of "America's oldest manufacturer of outdoor wear". Several mentions in notable magazines and books: , , , Also, Encyclopedia.com has an article about them . Mkdw 02:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Withdraw. Although the version deleted in December clearly failed WP:CSD#A7, it's significantly improved. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to Fan S. Noli#Poems. MBisanz 23:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Moisiu në mal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Although it is wrote in a different language, if translated to English, it is simply a poem and essay, which is what Knowledge is not, so I propose this be deleted. TBrandley 20:13, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Change to redirect to Fan S. Noli. Also, the "Poems" section on that main article needs to have links to sub articles for every poem removed, unless there are secondary sources supporting notability of individual poems. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:46, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Also add on Mousiu në mal. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:49, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete The author died in 1965 so reproducing his poem here is a WP:COPYVIO. If anyone did search here by the poem title it would be in expectation of an article about the poem rather than a copy of the poem itself - Knowledge is not some kind of Golden Treasury - and there is no claim of notability here, just a copy of the thing in itself. AllyD (talk) 21:09, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Redirect to Fan S. Noli#Poems. The poem «Moisiu në Mal» (Moses on the Mountain) is mentioned in Bihiku, Koço (1964). An outline of Albanian literature. Naim Frashëri State Pub. House. p. 72. and in other books and studies on Balkan literature . I think that an editor familiar with the Albanian language and literature would be capable to develop the article separately, however, redirect is the best option at the moment, at least in my opinion. I've removed the copyvio and I deleted related revisions. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 07:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
• Redirect to Fan S. Noli#Poems. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 03:16, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 00:52, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Shrewsbury Town F.C. players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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List has four players, which is about 1,000 short of its final target. Doesn't look likely to be completed any time soon, and if in the future someone wishes to recreate the article with a more complete list then as it stands this article will be of little use to them. EchetusXe 19:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep and expand. --Michig (talk) 21:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep Since they play in a fully professional league their players will be notable. Hypothetically you could merge then de-merge when more players were added, but why bother? Football subjects often attract fans who will contribute. --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A notable club with lots of notable players. An incomplete list is not a valid reason for deletion and the article has potential for growth. Lugnuts 07:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - something being incomplete is not a reason to delete. I'll happily start expanding this article when I have time. GiantSnowman 10:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. No-one doubts that the topic is notable, and if there was prior evidence of the list likely being expanded in the foreseeable future, it wouldn't have been nominated. Though I'm pleased that an experienced editor has enthusiasm for improving this and all the other currently nominated similar lists when he has time. And he's correct that something being incomplete isn't a reason to delete. But I'm not convinced it adds much to Knowledge's credibility if we insist on keeping an out-of-date, unsourced, BLP-violating stub indefinitely – it's already lain untouched for 15 months – until GiantSnowman or someone else finds the time to expand it. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• I'm busy this evening with the football but I'm willing to start improving as soon as tomorrow - it will be far from complete but will be able to show the potential and hopefully encourage other editors to get involved as well. This is a collaborative project after all. GiantSnowman 10:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - the topic is notable even if the article is incomplete, which is never grounds for deletion. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:04, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
• keep As per above. Govvy (talk) 20:36, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) —Theopolisme (talk) 15:16, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Rotherham United F.C. players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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List has ten players, which is about 1,000 short of its final target. Doesn't look likely to be completed any time soon, and if in the future someone wishes to recreate the article with a more complete list then as it stands this article will be of little use to them. EchetusXe 19:58, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep and expand. --Michig (talk) 21:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A notable club with lots of notable players. An incomplete list is not a valid reason for deletion and the article has potential for growth. Lugnuts 07:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep - something being incomplete is not a reason to delete. I'll happily start expanding this article when I have time. GiantSnowman 10:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep Article topic is notable. I've added another reference and will spend some time improving. Eldumpo (talk) 10:00, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep, incomplete does not amount to a reason to delete. As for improving the list, "We need a 12th man here. Where are you? Where are you? Let's be 'avin' you! Come on!" Bencherlite 17:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Norwich City F.C. players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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List has six players, which is about 1,000 short of its final target. Doesn't look likely to be completed any time soon, and if in the future someone wishes to recreate the article with a more complete list then as it stands this article will be of little use to them. EchetusXe 19:55, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep and expand. --Michig (talk) 21:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A team with a long history in the top flight of English football. Has notable players, list is valid. --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:35, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A notable club with lots of notable players. An incomplete list is not a valid reason for deletion and the article has potential for growth. Lugnuts 07:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep - something being incomplete is not a reason to delete. I'll happily start expanding this article when I have time. GiantSnowman 10:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep clearly notable, could use source for basic verifiability but if everyone who's participated here adds three players a week to the list, we'll be done by Christmas! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:26, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Halloween III (2013 film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This is speculation and crystal-balling. IMDB has very few details of this film - its status is "announced", and it has "been removed from the release calendar". The actors mentioned seem to be a hoax. StAnselm (talk) 19:54, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete per the notability guidelines for future films. There's no indication that this is a film that is in production. Erik (talk | contribs) 20:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete, obvious hoax.Vulcan's Forge (talk) 20:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

It was previously nominated for speedy deletion as a hoax, and the speedy was declined. StAnselm (talk) 20:58, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete Matt Damon and Chris Rock will star in a Halloween movie when a Brinks truck with a billion dollars backs up to their front door, and even then there will be second thoughts because it's the Halloween series. No sources, made up. Nate • (chatter) 03:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete per WP:NOT YET (films). While this topic is not quite a hoax, and is rather a Patrick Lussier project to include Brad Dourif and Scout Taylor Compton, supposedly to be released in 2012, it is apparently still in pre-production and only now getting did receive some buzz in 2010 and 2011. Certainly our article's author used his imagination for its content, and while the topic of this film is not entirely unsourcable, it is still far TOO SOON for an article to be considered. WHEN we do have far more, AND proper verification of cast, crew. studio, etc., an article might then be worth considering. Schmidt, 03:42, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete per Schmidt. When Lussier was first announced to be working on the film, there was quite a bit of buzz, but nothing really beyond that. There really isn't much to show that this as of yet unmade film would pass WP:NFF. Considering that the film hasn't yet begun filming and as such, would have no set release date, I would argue against a redirect to Halloween_(franchise)#Future. It'd be rather inappropriate for an article name with a specific, (and more importantly) unverified release date that will more than likely not happen. The only working title we have is Halloween 3D, which already exists as a redirect to the series page.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) —Theopolisme (talk) 15:16, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Oldham Athletic A.F.C. players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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List has five players, which is about 1,000 short of its final target. Doesn't look likely to be completed any time soon, and if in the future someone wishes to recreate the article with a more complete list then as it stands this article will be of little use to them. EchetusXe 19:51, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep and expand. It's obviously incomplete but better to keep it and work on it rather than delete it. --Michig (talk) 21:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A notable club with lots of notable players. An incomplete list is not a valid reason for deletion and the article has potential for growth. Lugnuts 07:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep - something being incomplete is not a reason to delete. I'll happily start expanding this article when I have time. GiantSnowman 10:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• I have started - work in progress but shows potential of article. GiantSnowman 19:15, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was WP:WITHDRAWN. (non-admin closure) Mkdw 04:25, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Lincoln City F.C. players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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List has four players, which is about 1,000 short of its final target. Doesn't look likely to be completed any time soon, and if in the future someone wishes to recreate the article with a more complete list then as it stands this article will be of little use to them. EchetusXe 19:50, 7 January 2013 (UTC) I withdraw the nomination now that the article is vastly improved.--EchetusXe 17:51, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep and expand. --Michig (talk) 21:18, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A notable club with lots of notable players. An incomplete list is not a valid reason for deletion and the article has potential for growth. Lugnuts 07:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep Lincoln City is a decent size club, I can't see why this article can't be a good one, I am sure there are plenty of players who can go on the list. 1,000 short? I am sure around 100 players on it would suffice. Govvy (talk) 08:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment I'm inclined to delete, thinking that perhaps Category:Lincoln City F.C. players can do that job.  Ohconfucius  09:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - something being incomplete is not a reason to delete. I'll happily start expanding this article when I have time. GiantSnowman 09:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep but only with a stay of execution. What is the point in keeping an article that is started as a stub and never gets improved? I'd say if this doesn't get improved within a month or two, it should go. – PeeJay 12:03, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - Struway2 (talk · contribs) has said they wish to improve the article; if they don't have time then my previous offer to do so myself still stands. GiantSnowman 12:26, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. This seems like a perfectly valid list of particularly noteworthy players for a club with a lot of history. The introduction to the list should explain why this is not redundant to Category:Lincoln City F.C. players - the category includes every player who has played for the club (even just one match) whereas this list is only for those who have played a significant part in the club's history, along with details of what their contribution was (see also Knowledge:Categories, lists and navigation templates). @PeeJay - why should we impose an artificial timelimit on this - there is no WP:DEADLINE. Thryduulf (talk) 13:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Because without the threat of a deadline, where is the impetus to improve the article? Having an obviously incomplete article lying around just looks unprofessional. – PeeJay 13:51, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
    • Also these lists are not generally for "club-notable" players (certain achievements / appearances etc.), they should be for all players. GiantSnowman 13:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep List is notable and should be expanded not deleted. I don't follow your logic on this PeeJay. There are lots of articles on wiki that start out as stubs and are hardly expanded, by your reasoning they should be deleted too. GianttSnowman has already said he will work on the list and WP:DEADLINE makes it clear we don't work to a deadline. We should not be deleting potentially good material just because it is a stub. NapHit (talk) 14:21, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. I'd been working on this offline for some time, and have now put my version into mainspace. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - Struway's new version renders the nomination null and void.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to List of Asilidae species. MBisanz 23:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Asilidae species: D-L (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This page was created as an apparantly abandoned attempt to split its parent article. The strategy being used was somewhat inappropriate and a different strategy has been used to split the parent article. This page is now not referenced apart from talk pages. Op47 (talk) 19:25, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete as duplicate; an unlikely term for a redirect. הסרפד (call me “Hasirpad”) (formerly R——bo) 19:45, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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Redirect (or delete) - Per WP:CHEAP, I recommend a redirect to List of Asilidae species. If this option is not elected, then deletion would definitely be appropriate.--Jax 0677 (talk) 20:04, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect as above. Duplicates List of Asilidae species: D etc. Worth keeping the redirect just in case there's somebody pointing to it somewhere. --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:37, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• 'delete, or redirect but I see little point in the redirect as it is a unlikely search term, and the page e quite new, so also not likely to have a lot, if any, links from the outside. - Nabla (talk) 23:37, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to H class battleship proposals. MBisanz 23:02, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

H-45 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The H-45 design never existed, it was created in an internet forum (see here - you must log into the site to see it) and was copied by Porter, who obviously did not do nearly a good enough job on his research. The article creator attempted to insert this material into the H class battleship proposals article, and when that was rejected, s/he created this one. It needs to go. Parsecboy (talk) 19:08, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment if any material is salvageable, it should be merged to H class battleship proposals. Otherwise Delete and redirect to H45 as a {{R from alternate spelling}} (delete the edit history; create a redirect to the disambiguation page) -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 01:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete; seems to fail the GNG, plus the hoaxiness problem. We do actually have articles on hoaxes, but they need to be notable and they need good secondary sources, which this article lacks. An article which presents a hoax (or suspected hoax) as though it's a real thing is a really bad idea. If it's possible to get good independent coverage of the hoax, one or two sentences about it in H class battleship proposals would be fine. bobrayner (talk) 15:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
  • There's nothing on this outside of Porter's book and the forum, which isn't exactly a reliable source. The H-45 isn't a hoax, strictly speaking, it was created as a sort of design study, and Porter simply didn't realize the nature of the forum. Parsecboy (talk) 14:52, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete per nom, who happens to be our resident expert on German naval history. However, it may be worth a sentence in H class battleship proposals ... something along the lines of "Porter, apparently taking his information from , said ___, but there's no evidence for this." Ed  19:01, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete and redirect to H class battleship proposals. While a latter-day what-if creation, it does have some "presence" in Porter's work and "in the wild", as it were; acknowleding it in that article as a footnote-ish thing is worthwhile, IMHO. (And would also avoid the inevitible result otherwise of a napkinwaffe fan coming along and going "oh, there's no article on the H-45! I need to fix that...) - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:01, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete and redirect per The Bushranger; it may be worth including a brief mention of this in the H class battleship article to set the record straight. Nick-D (talk) 22:41, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was speedy delete. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 18:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Tussian Empire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Lack of sources describing such empire when a Google search was performed. Not sure whether if this empire existed or not. Wylve (talk) 17:28, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Delete. Obvious hoax. Just look at the rulers ("Gingerella?" Seriously?) and the Toasting section. Ridiculous. Howicus (talk) 18:05, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. There seems to be a rough consensus here that the available sourcing indicates that this is more notable than a routine crime. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Deaths of Asher and Yonatan Palmer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Knowledge is not a newspaper. The deaths of these two Israelis, while tragic, was the topic of newspaper coverage at the moment, but has not resulted in any lasting effects of historic significance. WikiDan61_ReadMe!! 17:04, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep The article meets WP:DIVERSE and appears in books by experts in the field --Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 20:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

The issue is still is reported by WP:RS even after two years only from the last month so it was not routine event.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 15:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Obviously a notable event, covered by CNN and a host of others. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep Attack was reported by variety of sources and was notable for the alleged police cover up to avoid retaliatory responses. Ankh.Morpork 17:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete - this has 0 chance of being deleted, but it fails NOTNEWS. No persistent coverage. Users will say but it is covered in all these newspapers. Yes, I know that. So is every announcement of a settlement expansion, so are most Palestinians killed by Israeli forces, so are many attacks on olive groves by settlers. These are specific incidents in a more general topic. That general topic is what should be in an "encyclopedia". These articles belong on a memorial site, not Knowledge. nableezy - 17:49, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

So why you didn't voted delete for Khalil al-Mughrabi? or propose Faris Odeh articles for deletion?--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 18:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Because al-Mughrabi's death had lasting significance and was the subject of in-depth coverage over a long period of time due to the Israeli cover-up. As for Odeh, get real. That is perhaps the most famous image from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That would be a bit like deleting Tank Man. But there have been nearly 5000 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces since early 2008. Another 40 have been killed by Israeli settlers. I could, if I were so inclined, find sources from the BBC, AFP, Haaretz, al-Jazeera, Maan, ... for a large number of those, and I could, if I were so inclined, write an article using those sources. I dont. Because those arent articles that belong in an encyclopedia. Last year, 516 people were murdered in the city of Chicago, my hometown. I could find sources for most of them and write an article. But that would not make it an encyclopedia article, any more than any of the series of articles created about Israeli victims. This is, supposedly, an encyclopedia. No real encyclopedia would have an article on Asher and Yonatan Palmer. nableezy - 22:18, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete as per WP:NOTNEWS. Tragic, to say the least, but no historical or major political significance. Cheers, Λuα 18:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Does the fact it changed the IDF policies and was a source of the police spoksman invesigation make it with a political siginificance ?109.226.53.159 (talk) 14:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - Despite both Israelis and Palestinians thinking everything they do to each other is of earth-shattering importance, it really isn't. This is routine news coverage of a tragic event. No lasting significance, no impact on the larger world or even the local one. People died, people were arrested, and sentenced. Over and out. Tarc (talk) 19:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. As per Shrike. Was discussed in scholarly sources not contemporaneously to attack. I don't see any deletion discussion on terrorist attacks in which Jews weren't the victims. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:00, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Mentioned in a list of events is not discussed. As for the last sentence, yeah ok. Whatever you say. nableezy - 22:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment Here is another example of mentioning --Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 20:06, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete - Yup. WP:NOTNEWS and WP:COATRACK pretty obviously apply here. If these deaths weren't surrounded by the obvious IP-conflict issues, the article would have never been started. For couple seconds I was wondering whether these death might become "of historical significance" and gain notability in future, but given that the deaths occurred in 09/11 and this article wasn't started till 08/12, it seems obvious that this will remain a minor event. NickCT (talk) 20:13, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A couple of points not made before: Firstly, Quite a lot in Knowledge links to this article. Secondly, rock-throwing in the Israel-Palestine conflict is a controversial and much discussed issue. This is easily Googled. (I get over 3 million hits). Supporters of the Palestinian position vis-a-vis Israel's claim that Israel uses "disproportionate force" against children or adults that throw stones, that rock-throwing is an innocuous activity rarely causing casualties. The Israelis do not see it that way, and these deaths by stone demonstrate that rock-throwing is NOT innocuous and provide justification for Israel to prosecute rock throwers of whatever age. It is understandable that partisans of the opposing side would want to make this evidence of the lethality of rock-throwing to go away, and that could well be the basis for some of the DELETE votes above. Opportunidaddy (talk) 04:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete (no chance of policy being honoured here of course) while merging the incident into Rock-throwing incidents in the Occupied Territories, if you are serious about encyclopedic quality articles, Opportunidaddy and co. I.e.

1. Under Israeli military order 1651, throwing stones is an offence which can see a child as young as 14 sentenced to 10 years behind bars if it is directed at a person with the intent to harm, or up to 20 years if thrown at a vehicle. DCI says children as young as 12 can be tried in Israeli military courts and imprisoned without charge for up to 188 days, although most are detained for between two weeks and 10 months. Rock throwing for Palestinians carries a heavy sentence, under military law, and some 700 are arrested for the offence each year.
2. Jewish settlers throw rocks at the IDF and aren’t prosecuted This rule is almost always ignored if the rock throwers are Jewish settlers on expropriated Palestinian land, chucking rocks at the IDF.
3. For instance you can firebomb (a form of throwing) a Palestinian taxi and seriously injure its occupants, have your DNA found on the site, and yet have the case dropped for ‘lack of evidence’, if you have the right ethnic makeup, i.e. you aren’t an Arab.
4. Or or shoot an old man on a donkey, Ali el Harib, and never be tried for 'lack of evidence'.

As Nableezy notes, there are thousands of similar incidents of Palestinian deaths one could write up as single page incidents such as the case of Mohammed Suleiman a-Zalmut. In October, 1998, Hammel visited his sister, Kama, at Itamar and then set out on foot, knapsack on his back, to Avri Ran's farm. On the way, he encountered a 77-year-old Palestinian, Mohammed Suleiman a-Zalmut, from the nearby village of Beir Fouriq. For reasons that are unclear, Hammel smashed Zalmut's skull with a rock. I hope no one does that. The one-off incident strategy means WP:NPOV is neatly sidestepped by militant POV-pushers, since you no longer have to give an overall picture or context, but just keep piling on articles on victims on one side. If this was a partisan tit-for-tat war, Opportunidaddy, the Palestinian POV-pushers would win hands down for sheer volume of tragic incidents in their favour. They refrain from this generally, fortunately.Nishidani (talk) 11:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Somehow, I don't think your post is exactly NPOV either. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 20:49, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment: Nishidani's argument is perhaps one of the most convincing I've ever read on those delete pages. Perhaps I am a bit biased because I already voted on the same side as he/she did, but if I were to vote again, I'd base it on what they said. Cheers, Λuα 18:57, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Significant murder case that had alot of coverage Crystalfile (talk) 15:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete No convincing evidence has been presented supporting the "enduring notability" of this event (as we should consider per WP:NOTNEWSPAPER). The only sources that have been presented outside of the immediate news coverage of the the event and the trial are:

1. A listing in Gilbert's "atlas" alongside other listed events that similarly would not meet notability requirements for a stand alone article such as an Abbas appearance at the UN, an Israeli announcement of settlement expansion, a Quartet statement ect.
2. A brief mention in a Gerald Steinberg Op-Ed. Dlv999 (talk) 19:54, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect. A source from only last month was presented above and a memorial service was held four months ago.Ankh.Morpork 22:24, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect. The source was not "presented above" at the time I made my comment. Shrike went back to insert the source into the comment twenty minutes after I made the post. On the substantive point as two whether these two sources are evidence of "enduring notability" I would say no. Your source for instance is a news report covering an annual ceremony that commemorates Americans and Canadians that have fallen in Israeli wars. Dlv999 (talk) 22:57, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep. The subject received a great deal of attention and is certainly notable. Everyking (talk) 14:19, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

  Y'know, when I have an AfD on the watchlist and I see someone's entry clocking in at around 174 bytes, the immediate assumption is "this is going to be crap". I am rarely disappointed. Try to provide something more than WP:ITSNOTABLE, please. Tarc (talk) 14:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

  I think my comment was actually a good deal better than the nomination itself. The press coverage was quite substantial, beyond the level that anyone could fairly characterize as routine. Therefore the subject is notable. What more argument is needed? Everyking (talk) 14:38, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

  Yes indeed it was not routine coverage and WP:DIVERSE was met.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 15:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment What Shrike (talk · contribs) and others appear to be missing is that WP:DIVERSE is just one of three conditions of coverage (that in itself is just one of three factors) that are described at WP:EVENT. Yes, the event was covered in diverse sources. And yes, the event's coverage has lasted for some period of time (but only because the trial continues and has not yet concluded). But the event has not proven to have any lasting effect. (Will any laws be changed because of this event? Will the conflict between Israel and Palestine be affected one iota by this event?) Nor has the event had any broad geographic effect. (No one outside of the immediate neighborhood where the event occurred has been affected by the event.) So, in the broad sense of WP:EVENT, this event fails the criteria. WikiDan61_ReadMe!! 15:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Notability is not temporary. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:43, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• I think you wrong on this WP:EVENT is quite clear on this "Events are also very likely to be notable if they have widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (as described below)."-this criterion was clearly met.
• Morever it clear meet the general notability criteria per WP:GNG.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 16:40, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - NOTNEWS
  • Who else was killed in the conflict on the same day, 23 September 2011 ? One man, mid-30s, father of seven, shot near Qusra in the West Bank. Quick search for sources that covered the killing; United Nations, The Guardian, The Sydney Morning Herald, Ynet, Haaretz , The Telegraph, BBC, The Independent, JPost, B'Tselem, IDFblog, Yahoo/AP, AP, MSNBC, Fox PressTV. For the coverage in Knowledge, see last but one paragraph in Qusra. It could perhaps benefit from a slight expansion but it's about the right level of coverage for an encyclopedia.
  • Who's reading Deaths of Asher and Yonatan Palmer ? Approximately no one..
  • Dedicated articles about events like these are a playground for agenda driven editors. If Knowledge's objective were to demonize people and exploit the death of innocents as part of a pointless and disruptive information war or if the notability of victimhood was meant to be established by ethnicity based sampling of RS, I might vote keep. But at the moment they aren't. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:42, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - obviously received extensive international coverage at the time of the event, and continues to be covered two years later, as documented by Shrike, in or - thus meeting the WP:GNG. Arguments along the lines of "but no one is reading it" are not grounded in any policy as a reason for deletion, nor are arguments that other, perhaps equally deserving articles about other deaths have not yet been written. All Rows4 (talk) 14:13, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Wow, after 101 edits you know all that? nableezy - 16:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep The tragic event is clearly notable, as per Shrike. The attacks that may or may not occur on Palestinians are a separate situation and do not affect the notability of this event. Also, they were not presented in a reliable or unbiased manner, and I'm not impressed by the attempts to obfuscate the discussion by changing the subject. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 21:01, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep The article is well written and well sourced, and according to WP:N/CA, "media coverage can confer notability on a high-profile criminal act, provided such coverage meets the above guidelines and those regarding reliable sources." The incident is covered by major media in at least two countries. I do also think the international aspects of the case do strength the notabilty of this article. Grrahnbahr (talk) 05:01, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep Notable topic, subject of in-depth AND persistent coverage by reliable sources worldwide. The "impact" section lists several significant results of this attack. Marokwitz (talk) 09:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment. Wouldn't it be administratively more efficient and time-saving just to post an exception notice that says:'All articles created to deal with Israeli deaths at the hands of Palestinians need not be challenged because they are invariably passed by an automatic majority, and are all newsworthy, so neither WP:EVENT nor Knowledge is not a newspaper applies to them? Nishidani (talk) 16:56, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

You aren't helping yourself with the snarky attitude. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 17:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not on wikipedia to "help myself" but to contribute to encyclopedic-quality articles. It's not 'snarky' to familiarize oneself with an on-going problem, and a pattern of support. The only improvement is that these template articles started out invariably with a header speaking of murder (one or two still survive i.e. The Murder of Shalhevet Pass) until someone senior nudges the editors to alter at least that. I could write several articles a week like these, for the other side. I don't and have advised others not to do so, or get sucked into this game. I once even experimented to see how reactions would turn out if I wrote up an incident-type hitting the other side (Zion Square assault) and even forewarned admins I'd do so. Unfortunately for that project, far too many articles appeared which transformed the incident into a major episode, so my experiment failed. But compare that page with the kind of stuff you get on this kind of page. Nishidani (talk) 18:32, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

All I'm seeing here is someone who appears to have an anti-Jewish bias injecting that apparent bias into this discussion. I am not impressed. It's not my fault if you chose not to write articles "for the other side". AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 18:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Try looking for the things you aren't seeing rather than drawing conclusions based on all you are seeing. Nishidani's point is entirely rational. If AfDs have a near zero chance of resulting in delete there is no point posting them. That is certainly the case for articles about Israeli deaths at the hands of Palestinians. Not posting the AfD in these cases would be administratively more efficient and it would save time. That is just how it is. Procedures need to deal with how the ARBPIA topic area actually is rather how it should be. Approximately no one is reading the article so it doesn't matter whether it is deleted or retained. The only effect of this AfD is that it has reactivated a near dormant likely sockpuppet of a topic banned editor involved in the CAMERA infilitration campaign and a likely sockpuppet of another topic banned editor that has been dormant for months. It would have been better if that hadn't happened. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

anti-Jewish bias????? And the evidence for that bullshit charge is what exactly? Or did it become standard practice to accuse others of antisemitism with no basis around here? nableezy - 19:54, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

The evidence is all above. I might not have even bothered to !vote here if I hadn't been so disgusted with the fact that an AfD regarding an article about murdered Jews was being used as a platform to redirect the focus toward perceived injustices against Palestinians. Also, note that I said the editor appears to have an anti-Jewish bias. I could be wrong about that, and if so I apologize, but that was how they came across to someone who had no real prior involvement in related discussions. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 20:29, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

See, this is what passes for standard discourse around here now; editors get to freely toss around charges of antisemitism (couched in cover-your-ass verbiage like "it appears", "it seems", etc...) without repercussion. AutomaticStrikeout did it just now, Baseball Bugs did it a few weeks ago. Tarc (talk) 20:38, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Sherlock, we havent been using this as a platform to redirect the focus toward perceived injustices against Palestinians. We have said, repeatedly, that article for BOTH Palestinians and Israelis killed that show no lasting impact do not belong. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, has said that this is only true for Jewish victims of Palestinian violence. It is likewise true for Palestinian victims of Israeli violence. The point that was actually made which you apparently failed to understand, and not the one that didnt impress you, was that if somebody were interested in writing "articles" about Palestinian victims that have generated the same type of coverage as the "articles" on Israeli victims that there would be thousands of such "articles". I use quotation marks because none of them are actually articles, they are memorial pages. If you cant restrain yourself from popping off with bullshit accusations because of an apparent inability to actually understand what people are writing then I am quite happy that I failed to impress you. nableezy - 20:39, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Whatever, the conversation is pointless anyway. The consensus is clear the event is noteworthy and you have a hard time respecting that. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 20:44, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

You still dont have a clue about what you are talking about. That hasnt stopped you before, so I doubt me saying anything here will stop you in the future. So for once you are right, the "conversation" is pointless. nableezy - 20:52, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, given that you insist on demeaning the opinion of everyone that dares to disagree with you as to the outcome of this AfD, I guess this conversation is pointless, unless you are willing to consider toning down the rhetoric. As I said before, I apologize if my comment, which I have struck, was in error. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 20:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Im the one that said that I think the people who disagree with me are racists. I must have forgotten. Sorry about that demeaning comment, really. nableezy - 21:06, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep, satisfies GNG. —Ynhockey 00:19, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep notable high-profile attack which had persistent coverage in prominent reliable secondary sources worldwide. TheCuriousGnome (talk) 18:03, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep submitter doesn't make a valid argument for deletion (misstates article retention criteria), and most !votes for delete are just variations on WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The Editorial Voice (talk) 22:07, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. There isn't a valid argument for deletion. This source for instance characterizes the incident as a "setback" to the "hopes" of "direct Israeli-Palestinian talks". The argument for deletion is that the incident "has not resulted in any lasting effects of historic significance" to which I would counter that a setback to talks is of historical significance. Bus stop (talk) 01:05, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 03:45, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Winnie The Pooh's Home Run Derby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Maybe of use as a footnote in game design but I don't think this will have much continuing coverage considering there isn't much substance to it. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 16:45, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

There are other articles with even less information around, like this one: Ready to Read with Pooh. Also, it can be much more complete, check this, for example.Caith Sith (talk) 17:35, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFF. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 17:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - I want to delete this piece of tripe, but the more one looks, the more borderline sources seem to crop up . I've seen nbcsports.com and the Daily Dot so far. Tarc (talk) 19:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep I believe there are enough sources out there to indicate notability. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 03:38, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Comment - Can't help but feel similarly to Tarc. There's a Kotaku source too (currently in the article as an external link... Sergecross73 msg me 20:33, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. In addition to Kotaku and NBC Sports, I found an article at Eurogamer and another at the Swedish news site Nyheter24 (Google translation). That's probably enough to prove notability. Funnily enough, I didn't find anything in Japanese, other than Japanese blogs that were commenting on how popular the game is becoming overseas. — Mr. Stradivarius 22:06, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - Per my earlier comment, Tarc's sentiments, and Mr. Stradivarius's compilation of sources. Sergecross73 msg me 03:25, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - There is no reason for deletion. The article has a potential for growth.--Hot cake syrup (talk) 13:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy Deleted under Criterion G11 (Unambiguous advertising or promotion). ★ Bald Zebra ★  16:31, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Bloomerang (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Seems like an advertisement. Scientific Alan 2 (talk) 16:00, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was Keep. WP:BEFORE reveals stories well into 2005 and one into 2011. The arguments of those in favour of keep and WP:N/CA remain supported while the arguments against have not changed, if not weakened, since the last AfD. (non-admin closure) Mkdw 03:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Diane Zamora (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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BLP of a person convicted for murder which appears to be a classic case of only being notable for one event. Not a significant case in terms of law. Limited press coverage. No long-term press interest.

I stubbed this article back because it was written from an obviously slanted point of view and lacked references for almost all of the claims made. It may be worthwhile to look through the history before deciding to keep or delete this article. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Speedy Keep: The article needs to be rewritten with inline references, but there is absolutely no question of notability. It was a very high profile case back in the late 90's. However whatever (talk) 17:12, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Strong keep: Agreed, absolutely no question of notability. Multiple mass media adaptations of the story, including ones not mentioned in the current version of the article (such as the Snapped adaptation). Nominator gives same justification as the failed previous AFD nomination, which was decided in favor of "keep", with no indication that anything has changed from the previous nomination that this should be decided any differently. "No long-term press interest"? The Dateline interview mentioned in the article and a TV series adaptation, both a decade later, don't count? And if that was supposed to mean no current press interest, that's a bad argument for deletion. Of course there's no current press interest, because the press reports current news. By that argument, since today's newspaper isn't currently covering crimes that occurred in the 1990s, all articles on crimes in the 1990s should be deleted. —Lowellian (reply) 19:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep per above. Paris1127 (talk) 08:08, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. No prejudice towards discussions about merging or changing scope. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:44, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

1767 in rail transport (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Only one entry in list, and that is unsourced. Mdann52 (talk) 13:41, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - The fact that there is only one item listed on the page so far simply means that editors here haven't searched around as much for items that should be included in the list. The 1760s was a decade in which a number of other railway pioneers could have been born, or inventions necessary for railway technology could have been developed. I have added three independent sources to the page to take care of the unsourced argument noted above. Slambo (Speak) 14:11, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - without too much effort, I just found something to put in the events section. More a case of unfinished work than unfinishable work, I'd say. Might be worth getting a WikiProject on to these, but otherwise. Stalwart111 14:37, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

  And I just added two more refs to that entry from items in Google Books (including one originally published in 1831). This is within the scope of WP:Trains, of which I have been a participating member since 2004. Slambo (Speak) 15:31, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep - When this had no events and a single birth, it was borderline; but now it has a referenced non-birth event, it can stay. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Rename to 1760s in rail transport and merge in the other poor articles such as 1765 in rail transport. Lugnuts 07:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Rename as per Lugnuts' suggestion above. Andrew 08:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

My only concern with that proposal is that these come from Years in rail transport which includes every year post 1700 (with quite a few redlinks). A new page covering a whole decade would throw that format out of whack (it would be the only one) and would duplicate Category:1760s in rail transport which actually includes three years of that decade and a sub-cat with a page for another year. Stalwart111 04:06, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep somehow but I think merging this and other 1760s articles into one 1760s in rail transport would be better. Similarly all other articles in decades before 1800. There is just not enough possible content for annual articles at this period. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:28, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
• Merge into decades as above, such articles would be more informative & at this stage most years will not have enough events to be worth individual articles.TheLongTone (talk) 10:22, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Just to be clear - that would involve also merging three other articles not listed here and depopulating two categories (effectively deleting them rather than this article). I'm just not sure we should be doing that as the result of a single-article AFD. I am concerned about going down that path from here but not strongly opposed to it as an idea. It would need, I think, the folks from WP:Trains to sort out. And amending their existing structure as the result of one AFD might not be popular. But the option needs to be considered. Stalwart111 11:09, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep for now but discuss merge at WikiProject Level via a RFC at WT:TWP. Peterkingiron's suggestion is a good one. Mjroots (talk) 16:47, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:09, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Creators, sustainers, and destroyers in white nationalism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This topic is currently sourced only to primary sources. Even the SPLC source only quotes Pierce's essay on the subject. Whilst there are plenty of discussions of Pierce's ideas in reliable sources, this particular one doesn't seem to have been taken up by anyone. I would suggest a merge to Pierce's article, but there's really nothing here to merge. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 20:07, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Merge Into some white power/ Ku Klux Klan article. PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 12:43, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - Not an encyclopedic topic. Polemic essay. Carrite (talk) 17:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - An encyclopedia is not an essay-hosting service. Unless it can be shown that the essay/belief.whatever is itself notable, there's no place for this here. Tarc (talk) 19:26, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete no in depth references MarioNovi (talk) 09:26, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• delete One-off wacko remark seized upon by the SPLC but apparently not cared about by anyone else out there. Mangoe (talk) 13:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 00:54, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Seinfeld minor characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Seems like all the notable characters already have their own articles. There are virtually no reliable WP:SOURCES. I understand Seinfeld is notable, but is every minor character who appeared notable as well? WP:NOTINHERITED PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 12:24, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Meets WP:LISTPURP as that it is a valuable information source. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 13:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep There's plenty of sources. There's lots of (unauthorized) books about Seinfeld. And quite a bit of online comment. See the articles on the individual episodes for more sources. Having a compendium of possibly non-notable (but verifiable) characters is perfectly valid. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. This is a good example of what character lists are for: tons of references exist, and it is better to have a list like this than spend time arguing about the article-worthiness of every one of these figures.--Arxiloxos (talk) 15:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• No deletion for you per all of the above and the fact that one or more of the characters have become embedded in pop culture, and shouldn't be lost in the shuffle. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep - it's a good directory of characters, no need to delete. May need re-naming though - 'minor Seinfeld characters' better than 'Seinfeld minor characters'? GiantSnowman 12:25, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Hossein Hadisi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non notable musician. Has several search hits, the most reliable of which appear to be a few linked videos in NME, but otherwise I can't find anything online that establishes notability. Ritchie333 12:28, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - Notability not established, fails WP:Band. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 07:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete - I didn't find any reliable sources for this article. --Cerebellum (talk) 18:27, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was Speedily deleted per A7. Bbb23 (talk) 18:57, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Bynder (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No assertion of notability per WP:WEB; no significant coverage online from WP:Reliable sources. Speedy-deleted half an hour ago on notability grounds, re-created by same editor so taking it to AFD. Altered Walter (talk) 12:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Speedy delete as A7. A7 applies for the deletion of this article as per the article has really no significance, it doesn't claim notability either. Fails WP:WEB, WP:GNG and WP:V. The source given was just for its stable release which does not contribute to make the article reliable. Mediran (t • c) 10:27, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to Screeming Custard!. MBisanz 17:51, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Flo (drummer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Many searches have failed to yield any coverage for this person, whose birth name is Paul Flynn (per the article). It appears that the subject doesn't meet WP:BASIC for a Knowledge article. Northamerica1000 11:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete Neither he nor any of his bands are notable as far as I can tell. There are very few easily-accessible sources for British music of their era - most of the magazines are long-dead and there's almost nothing digitized, online, or in the usual databases - so it's unlikely any sources will be found, even if there were any at the time. --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:03, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Merge to Screeming Custard!. I think Screeming Custard! are notable enough, The Pushkins were great but borderline when it comes to notability, and I can't see us having an article on them in the near future. He did play in the band though (). --Michig (talk) 21:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete Don't see any notable sources for drummer or band. MarioNovi (talk) 10:24, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy deleted A7. Peridon (talk) 12:12, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Scour.com (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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WP:NOTABILITY, the only notable case found in a Google search was how it was a "redirection virus." It's a Fox! (Talk to me?) 11:12, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Velvet Air (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No assertion of notability per WP:CORP; can't find anything about it online in WP:Reliable sources. Proposed deletion contested by anonymous IP editor, which appears to be the IP of the article's creator. Altered Walter (talk) 11:02, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete no evidence of notability or even that it operates any aircraft, the company website is written in a strange fashion which manages to use a lot of words but doesnt give is any information at all about the company, but in the end it looks like a charter broker and consultancy, neither of which activities appear to be notable. MilborneOne (talk) 20:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - No coverage in reliable sources. The only coverage for a "Velvet Air" is a defunct air service based out of Florida. -- Whpq (talk) 17:30, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. MBisanz 23:01, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Pulsar 590 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable product. Article mainly consists of specifications. Contested PROD by DGG who suggests a merge. Another editor had endorsed the PROD. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 03:42, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

• Keep - I've found plenty of references on this product, in addition to the CNET review cited in the article: (couldn't check this one, damn school filters), , , , , . Some of these are a bit trivial, but a couple of them are quite in-depth, and there also appears to have been a Tom's Hardware review as well, although I couldn't find this. The article needs a major re-write and expanding, but that's not an AfD issue. Lukeno94 (talk) 09:58, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Being mentioned somewhere on the internet is not a reason to have an article. It is just one of 100s of 1000s of run of the mill products out there. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 19:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

There are enough proper reviews on there for GNG to be met. Lukeno94 (talk) 21:42, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

• Delete For a product to be notable imo it has to have had extensive coverage or made a real cultural impact. These headphones have done neither. Rotten regard 01:07, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Keep Some of the reviews are apparently substantial. DGG ( talk ) 01:48, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Delete. No evidence of the product's impact. 1292simon (talk) 10:42, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

There's no requirement that the product have an impact, only that it have substantial coverage in reliable sources. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Just added a second review source to article. We now have significant coverage in multiple sources. Please post a link to the impact policy. This is first I've heard of this. -—Kvng 04:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if I misled anyone, what I'm getting at is that routine reviews of a product do not make it notable, the product needs to be special for some reason. Similar to WP:EFFECT (I realise this is for events, but I believe it is appropriate to apply here). 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

The essay Knowledge:Every snowflake is unique is relevant: it explains that it's possible to have a good article for run-of-the-mill products as long as you have detailed reviews rather than bare statistics. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. Apparently there's no cut-and-dried policy. I personally think it best to err on the side of inclusion. -—Kvng 19:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep I started a "critical reception" section. Lots of reviews; meets notability requirements. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:49, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete. Product reviews don't prove notability. It needs to have an impact or technical legacy. Just another product, here today, gone tomorrow. WP is not for product listings. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 03:22, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was merge to The Actual (band). MBisanz 17:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Songs on Radio Idaho (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Unreferenced stub article on defunct band's first album and tagged for three years, no edits for years, dubious notability, orphaned article also tagged for three years, information can be merged with band article or mentioned briefly - no need for a separate page for an unreferenced track listing Jusdafax 06:46, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

• Merge to The Actual (band). The tracklist and anything else verifiable can be merged there. --Michig (talk) 12:20, 24 December 2012 (UTC) I have added the tracklisting there, so this article is now redundant and a redirect will suffice. --Michig (talk) 12:46, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
• Redirect to The Actual (band) per Michig - There's nothing at this article that isn't already explained at The Actual. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 16:53, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Redirect or merge. Either way, this album does not warrant a standalone article. 1292simon (talk) 10:43, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to Jan Nisar Akhtar. MBisanz 23:00, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Eitbar Hussain bartar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Contested prod with the following justification offered by myself: No verifiable references, search of Google, Google Books, and Google Scholar turns up nothing. IronGargoyle (talk) 07:08, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

• Delete - Not notable FailsWP:BLP--Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 09:26, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
• Merge - to his father's article.--Auric 08:24, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete. Merger is another possibility, but personally I don't see anything worth merging. 1292simon (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. The current consensus here is fairly clear, that this article in particular does not pass the notability guidelines. Keep !votes have not been founded in policy and thus bear little weight in the discussion. Considering a similar article exists and is currently under consideration at AFD, if somebody would like to merge the two I'll provide the text  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Villains in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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As substantially similar to an article deleted at Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of Power Rangers villains MBisanz 22:46, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

• Weak delete I'm a bit on the fence here. What we have is way too much plot emphasis, tiny details about nonessential characters, and a whole lot of OR. That being said, this could be a viable article if we limit the list to just the big baddies who were threats for at least a season or so, and not their minions or one-off bosses. The fact that this is just plot summary tips the line to delete; any viable article would need real-world commentary or background information on the important characters. ThemFromSpace 05:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Comment: You know it would be good if you notify WT:WikiProject Tokusatsu that a article within its scope is up for AfD. Anyway, I notified WikiProject Tokusatsu about this AfD. Powergate92Talk 17:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that because I don't know the topic area and started the AFD as part of the close of another AFD. MBisanz 17:28, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

• Keep: A list of characters of from notable television series (all antagonists), the inclusion of which on the parent article would clutter it up. It's not really the same as the previously deleted page (but I don't know what was there to begin with; I assume it was just a list summarizing the other lists). There's plenty that can be removed from the page though.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:31, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

  I've gutted the article of the monsters of the week/day to leave just the big bosses and related recurring characters. To be quite honest, if this was part of a list that included the protagonists and antagonists I doubt this would be up for deletion at all.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:40, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Keep - Let this page stay. We should have full information on the villains that appear in this show and brief descriptions of it's monsters. Rtkat3 (talk) 2:37, December 26 2012 (UTC)
  • Reason why the page would meet our guidelines ?Folken de Fanel (talk) 02:25, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 05:17, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
  • AfDs are not votes.Folken de Fanel (talk) 02:25, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Maybe you didn't grow up watching Power Rangers, but I did. It had Villains; too many to count. I figure a list is justified. PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 10:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually I did grew up watching Power Rangers and had all the action figures at some point. AfDs still aren't votes, though. I encourage you to find policy-based reasons to keep the article, otherwise the closing admin is unlikely to take your comment into account.Folken de Fanel (talk) 16:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep as list appears to be a summary style parent to multiple existing villain articles. No objections to merging some of them to here if appropriate, and no objection to trimming excessive plot summary, but I see no policy-based reason for deletion. Jclemens (talk) 08:00, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOTPLOT + fails WP:LISTN.Folken de Fanel (talk) 02:25, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

  "There is no present consensus for how to assess the notability of more complex and cross-categorization lists (such as "Lists of X of Y") or what other criteria may justify the notability of stand-alone lists"—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  1) Maybe I'm mistaken but this is not a "more complex and cross-categorization" list. 2) WP:NOTPLOT, being policy, trumps any other criteria you may want to argue for concerning the notability of stand-alone lists about fiction.Folken de Fanel (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  I was more under the "what other criteria may justify the notability ofs tand-alone lists" and plot shit can be edited out instead of throwing out a list page.—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:27, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  I understand but you have to make sure the other criteria don't actually conflict with existing guidelines and policies. Besides, don't you think that if we remove all the plot shit the page is left almost blank, without even solving the notability issue ? I think it would be easier and more consensual for you to argue for clean up + merge rather than to blindly stick to conservation.Folken de Fanel (talk) 12:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  It's already a list split off from a parent article. Why would it be merged back into said article?—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:35, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  You're right, Mighty_Morphin_Power_Rangers#Villains is essentially that list minus all the plot shit. I thus see absolutely no reason for that list to be separate if its only purpose is to add plot shit that violates WP:NOTPLOT.Folken de Fanel (talk) 12:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  So basically, and I'm not going to bother posting it twice because I'm just going to be making the same point, you count WP:NOTPLOT as having any sort of discussion of the plot. Your determination as to what makes a list page valid for deletion pretty much includes every single dedicated character list I've ever come across on this project. And that all we should include on a list of characters is the actor who portrayed the role without any sort of fictional character biography. Doesn't seem very encyclopedic to me.—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:49, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  You're the one who talked about "plot shit" being "edited out" but yes, if, basically, the only purpose of this list is to have plot shit, then it is worthless. Also, I'm sorry, but this is for the sake of our debate: there is absolutely no plot discussion in this list. Please stop making any incorrect use of the word discussion, and talk about plot description or summary instead. Discussion is when something is discussed/analysed/commented on/debated on in secondary sources. That is not the case here and I'd appreciate if you stopped misrepresenting the content of this list. Thanks.Folken de Fanel (talk) 15:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  Again, what the hell is supposed to go on lists of characters? Fictional character biographies exist on this project in various forms for all works of fiction. And if it seems that the characters that are listed on this page and have separate articles aren't worth keeping, then those should be merged to this one with whatever reliable sources might exist and it should be used for what it is, a list of fictional characters, of which there are thousands on this project, all of which have plot "description" and I don't know what you mean about "misrepresenting the content of this list". It's a list of fictional character biographies and links to other articles for a specific group of antagonists from MMPR. I don't know if I've ever said anything different other than your insistence that I'm not using a single word right.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:45, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  And why the hell should we have lists of characters ? WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS isn't a good enough reason. Plot points or bios, if necessary, can already be summed up in the main articles, we don't have to make endless lists of every plot point that ever existed. Lists are supposed to have some use, they're not the "throw everything that doesn't fit anywhere else" magic bag. Knowledge isn't an indiscriminate collection of information. Lists aren't a magic trick to bypass WP:NOTPLOT.Folken de Fanel (talk) 17:03, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  Because people are clearly interested in the characters enough that the information about them cannot be kept within the descriptive text of the work of fiction they come from.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  This boils down to "what a bunch of fanboys want" vs "what the community as a whole wants WP to be". This was settled long ago and I don't want to waste my time anymore. All I can tell you is that wikia is a better place for the kind of content you want. Folken de Fanel (talk) 17:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  I'd rather be boiled alive than edit a fan run Wikia in this topic area.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  Then maybe you can understand why stuff like "Because people are clearly interested in xxx" is not the best argument you could find. A line has to be drawn somewhere if we don't want WP to become another wikia.Folken de Fanel (talk) 17:23, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  On a Wikia all the content I removed in a diff I posted at the top of the page would have its own separate article. I'm aware that the article in its current state is crap but that can be fixed by cutting out entire plot summaries, and leaving only a much more protracted fictional character biography. And one of the main reasons I want to avoid Wikia is because the fans despise me for taking a stricter stance on sourcing on newer pages (and also because I force the usage of official translations of Japanese text over what they take to be more looser yet accurate translations or whatever).—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Weak delete, as per Themfromspace. 1292simon (talk) 10:49, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Meets WP:LISTPURP as a valuable informative source. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 13:20, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
  • With only 3 entries leading to actual articles, I don't see how WP:LISTPURP would apply here.Folken de Fanel (talk) 16:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete. This is cruft, a long list of trivial tidbits about non-notable characters in a kids TV show. I thought we wuz writing an encyclopedia here, which is a book of important things. Drmies (talk) 15:55, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

  Do you have proof that the characters are not notable? This is just a spinoff list after all, and it can be proven that the subject of the parent article is notable.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  Seriously? Oozemen? Hatchasaurus? And that's being kind--an encyclopedia should find its secondary sources in published books and printed articles of the highest quality. Remember, we are talking about Power Rangers here, not about brains or countries or Shakespeare plays. You and I probably have different ideas about what an encyclopedia is, but fortunately there's WP:RS and WP:V to make some kind of demarcation between an attempt at a real encyclopedia and a list of Lego toys and TV show characters. Drmies (talk) 05:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  You cherry picked the worst choices from the list which just shows that those two are probably not notable on their own. You could probably find mentions of the major antagonists on this page somewhere in the depths of this search. Hell, Goldar gets name dropped in this result on page 2 (although most of these articles seem to be about violence on television or gendered marketing).—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  I didn't purposely pick the worst ones. I picked two, and they happen to be terrible. I hadn't looked at any others, but to appease you, I picked another one, from the purportedly notable ones (notable since there's an article): Goldar. The article is terrible, tagged as unreferenced since 2008, consisting mostly of plot and description based on--on what? original research. Try to look for sources--good luck. I searched and found that Spin magazine once described him as "a big freak with wings", and that's all they had to say (I added it to the article--you're welcome). No, this is cruft, and the associated articles don't seem to be any better. Drmies (talk) 15:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  So that just means Goldar isn't notable on its own and it should be merged into this article. I can find references that mention and describe Rita Repulsa (some mentions of Lord Zedd and Ivan Ooze too) throughout Google Scholar: , , , , , , , , . And while I can't access all of them at the moment, it would seem that she is important to discuss if all of these child psychology articles are to suggest.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  Can you find a reliable source that discusses Villains in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers as a topic? Something more than some entry in a fancyclopedia that merely lists them? Because the validity of this article stands or falls with the validity of the topic in its own right. Even if none of the ghost ships in Ghost ship are notable, it's still a viable topic because the concept of ghost ships is well attested. I don't see that being the case for this article. (See also the difference between Angels in Islam and Demons in the Marvel Universe--the one is an article, the other a collection of crufty descriptions.) Again: not mentions of these villains, that's nothing--in-depth coverage of the concept. Because you have latched on to my "non-notable characters", but the main thrust is the "trivial tidbits"--that is, the article is full of factoids but there is no concept of villainy in this TV show that's been discussed in reliable sources, as far as I know. Remember, this isn't a list; that one's already gone. Drmies (talk) 17:39, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  This article is simply not a list in name but it is one in function. And that AFD had so many problems. And from the multitude of sources I provide, the bulk of them discuss the fact that because there's the dynamic between good and evil in the show, it leads to issues in informing children of fantasy violence and the like (and also because half of the cast was females it did something with marketing. I'm not sure. I can't read the articles at home).—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:52, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  Just a note to Ryulong that per WP:BURDEN and WP:AFDFORMAT, it's up to the users who want to keep an article to prove it's notable, not the other way around. And per WP:N, mere mentions are not proofs of notability.Folken de Fanel (talk) 08:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  In one of the articles I saw they mentioned one of the characters specifically as an example for gender equality, but seriously these guidelines you're bringing up are for individual items and not the list as a whole.—Ryulong (琉竜) 11:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  WP:LISTN, which is for lists as a whole, is a part of WP:N (and as I said above, though LISTN does leave room for more possible criteria, the remark doesn't supercede actual policy like WP:NOTPLOT).Folken de Fanel (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  NOTPLOT is an editing rule rather than a notability guideline. Also, how can you not discuss the plot when the article is a list of fictional characters?—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:27, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  "Any other content not suitable for an encyclopedia" is a valid reason to delete per WP:DEL#REASON, and NOTPLOT is part of WP:NOT. Besides, I see no plot discussion here, merely plot description.Folken de Fanel (talk) 12:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep There are four things on the list notable enough to have their own main articles. Rename this to say "list of" before its current title, and its fine. Dream Focus 17:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
  • 1) You don't provide any policy-based reason to keep the article. Your comment can be discarded by the closing admin. 2) That articles exist don't mean their necessarily notable.Folken de Fanel (talk) 17:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
    • See Knowledge:LIST. And no matter how much you argue with everyone in AFDs and deletion reviews, you don't seem to ever convince anyone. Do you not understand how list articles function on Knowledge? And don't tell administrators how to close a discussion. Unlike you, I'm sure they know what a list article is suppose to be. Dream Focus 17:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
      • Folken, Dream Focus is correct. There's no need to point out the obvious to the point of badgering. Drmies (talk) 17:53, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
        • To DF: see WP:NOTPLOT. Do you not understand what Knowledge is not?Folken de Fanel (talk) 20:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
          • I understand there are thousands of list articles just like this, that have been around for years. I understand that over the years I've seen hordes of articles like this one go to AFD, and they are never deleted, because they are perfectly valid list articles. Dream Focus 22:53, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep as legitimate subarticle of parent article, Power Rangers, which would get too unwieldy. Villains are an essential plot element and a directory of them is a good compromise. Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:45, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Note: The AFD that spurred this one has been at DRV for a week.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:42, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment: What's the deal with all of pages in this template? Are they all deleted or redirected? J u n k c o p s (want to talk?|my log) 05:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

  They're all still there. What made you think they were deleted or redirected?—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• Merge into Mighty Morphin Power Rangers#Villains. This list does not meet WP:Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists, which says "Being articles, stand-alone lists are subject to Knowledge's content policies, such as verifiability, no original research, neutral point of view, and what Knowledge is not, as well as notability guidelines;" all of which this this does not meet. As well, this list does not meet the general notability guideline for which it should per WP:Notability#Stand-alone lists, which says "Notability guidelines apply to the inclusion of stand-alone lists and tables." Powergate92Talk 20:41, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

  Merging into the parent article is not a suitable choice as this is not a standalone list as much as it is a subarticle. If this were to be merged anywhere, it should be into some not-yet-existant List of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers characters page (as would any individual article on single characters).—Ryulong (琉竜) 22:02, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Note that List of Power Rangers villains is at AFD again, having been relisted after deletion review. So we're having the same discussion in two different areas for basically the same thing. Dream Focus 10:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete. The list is only very sparsely sourced (WP:V), and none of the sources covers the topic of these villains as a group, making the list fail WP:LISTN.  Sandstein  22:31, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

  Since when have lists of characters not been suitable topics?—Ryulong (琉竜) 22:48, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. MBisanz 23:00, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Planet Bowl (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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It's big and will be a Pan American Games venue, but still, it's just a bowling alley with no real media coverage. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Keep Alley will host the 2015 Pan American Games which is an important multi-sporting event. Also other similar bowling alleys such as the Royal Bowling Center are still articles even without any coverage, but hosted the 1988 Summer Olympics. As the Pan American Games approach there will be more media coverage. Intoronto1125TalkContributions 03:17, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Delete Despite it being relevant in about three years, it serves absolutely no other purpose - even in the sport of bowling. When defining the notability of a facility like a bowling establishment, it already has to be notable before the event even takes place. An event of notability does not make the facility notable. There would be hundreds of articles I could write just on the basis that a PBA major was held there, such as Red Rock Lanes, ROUND1, etc. Even the largest bowling facilities in the world do not have articles on Knowledge despite them holding world records, and this is because bowling establishments are not notable. Groink (talk) 05:55, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Delete. I believe WP:NOTINHERITED applies re the 2015 games. As for the fundraising reference, the coverage is a local media article, which is not enough to establish notability. 1292simon (talk) 11:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. While there was some discussion of a merge here, that discussion should probably be continued on the talk page as there is insufficient agreement here to mandate a merge. ‑Scottywong| spout _ 18:13, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Avaya ERS 4000 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Contested PROD. This is yet another of the many many Avaya product pages. These all seem to be PR pages. Knowledge is not a platform to showcase every little Avaya product ever produced. Non-notatable, trivial, (Not to mention spammy) and adds nothing to Knowledge. Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 20:43, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Keep but pare back significantly, or merge. Appears to meet GNG via IT World Canada and Techworld. --Nouniquenames 22:44, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
• Keep & merge to an article about this product line, but keep a substantial amount of the basic content. Anyone urging an outright delete, should explain why a merge isn't suitable, because according to WP:Deletion Policy, merges are preferred to deletions. In any case, WP should contain an article or substantial section about every major product line from a major company, though not a full article about every individual project. Some earlier merges of Avaya products reduced the content to a single line giving the name of the product in the main article. Those are destructive merge, and all such sections need to be expanded. A single article about such a company and all its products is absurd undercoverage DGG ( talk ) 18:56, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

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• there are about a million other similar pages Avaya#Products, someone from Avaya has been very good at spamvertising their products all over wikipedia. delete them all per WP:ADVERT. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

• @The Red Pen of Doom, I admit to not reading this article very carefully. However, I really cannot see why you feel it is merely an advertisement? Can you please explain why you feel the way you do? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 00:48, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

• If this were the only article for Avaya , i would not see it as an advertisement - however the fact that they have created stand alone article pages for every version of every product of every line they have, it is clear they are attempting to utilize Knowledge as a free online catalog to promote and advertise their junk. The kind people who have donated their money to wikipedia to pay for servers to create a free online encyclopedia are not making their donations to give free servers and hits from the highest search engine domain to promote outside commercial interests. delete all this and all the corporate Avaya spam.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:35, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep & Merge The importance and impact of the technologies of this company and the industries/persons/scientific formats they serve far supercede the paranoia associated with them "having too many pages on Knowledge" for "each little product." When we consider that "each little product" they manufacture is of significant use, then we must consider that "each little product" at least should be served with recognition on an overall page. Яεñ99 (talk) 10:25, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

  Not a reason to keep. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 11:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete as advertising. Alternatively, redirect to Avaya, per WP:NOTCATALOG. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 11:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Selective merge, to an article about the product line. Retain what is notable and verifiable. 1292simon (talk) 11:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment Each of the products of the various company lines are indeed worthy of acknowledging, whether you understand the uses of the technology or not. Merging retains the information without neglecting it's presentation in article form. Since Knowledge is all about saving information at the expense of simply deleting it, that approach is probably the preferent. Яεñ99 (talk) 12:30, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• actually, wikipedia is "all about" creating an encyclopedia, not about keeping "stuff" just cause its "stuff"'on the web. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:57, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• You say "potatoe", I say "potato"...get over it. It's useful information. Merge it or get a degree in IT so you know what it's all about. Maybe you should ask a librarian if it's worth the research. Яεñ99 (talk) 04:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

no, I say "encyclopedia" and you say "WP:ILIKEIT" while also flinging personal insults. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 06:35, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

There is plenty of "useful information" that is not appropriate for wikipedia. I believe WP:NOTCATALOGUE applies here. 1292simon (talk) 08:03, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Significant coverage in cited sources. Improve, don't delete articles with problems. -—Kvng 04:25, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment Actually, I WP:DGAF about the corporation. Don't own any of their products; don't use their devices. But I do know what it is they do. That I point out there may be valid question of it's worthiness is something for consideration, not offense. Thick skin comes with Wiki, as plenty of times folks make points you do or don't agree with. Don't take it personal, just make your points. I can also be assured you didn't read the comments from others above, as some came from a librarian, researcher, scholar, IT user, etc.. I mean really, look into it before going sideways. You've missed the contradiction of saying; "If this were the only article for Avaya , i would not see it as an advertisement..." while forgetting I (and not just singularly, mind you) made a Keep & Merge suggestion, seeking to combine the article space for their offerings and hence "the only article for Avaya." Alternately, I would not be adverse to a Redirect, as that would basically accomplish it similarly. Typically, informed adults don't worry so while bandying words. Knowledge is NOT about winning, it's about hitting the <ENTER> key and finding some useful information. Go figure. Oh, ; /hug Яεñ99 (talk) 09:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep per WP:PRODUCT. The article doesn't seem to be written in a promotional tone and appears to have been created in good faith by an experienced (if currently absent) editor, who I've now notified of this nomination. -- Trevj (talk) 13:47, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

LP-E6 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Proprietary rechargeable camera battery; a temporary product that has no inherent notability. Entirely unreferenced, vendor-specific material likely to only have a single reliable source. Proposed deletion contested by new account created today, whose sole edits so far have been to revert nine proposed deletions. Altered Walter (talk) 09:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete. I was the original prodder, and Altered Walter has captured my reasoning from the prod post. The battery isn't notable for Knowledge. We won't find references that provide any information about the subject that isn't simply parrotting a press release or a specificaiton sheet from the manufacturer. Unlike standardized batteries, this product-specific, vendor-proprietary battery isn't an interesting subject for any engineering or reference purpose. -- Mikeblas (talk) 17:03, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable. WP is not a product directory. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 03:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Corpse (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This band appears to not qualify for a Knowledge article per WP:N. Several source searches, including customized ones such as , , , , have not provided any coverage in reliable sources. The band also likely fails WP:BAND. They released an album under the Final Holocaust label, but I'm not finding much information about the company to ascertain whether it qualifies as an "important indie label" per criteria 5 of WP:BAND. Northamerica1000 08:55, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete. I can't find anything that indicates that this band meets the guidelines for inclusion. In addition, I can't see anything that points to the 'Final Holocaust' label qualifying as one of the more "important" indie labels. Fails WP:BAND. — sparklism 09:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete Fails WP:BAND, fails WP:RS, & their "indie label" fails to return anything of significance on a Google search Яεñ99 (talk) 10:30, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete I agree, Fails WP:BAND, fails WP:RS, No Source of reference. Would need expanding drastically to meet criteria for inclusion! Deangunn (talk) 20:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:44, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Lift Up Your Hands (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No indication of notability per WP:NSONG. No significant coverage online from WP:Reliable sources. Proposed deletion contested by new account created today, whose sole edits so far have been to revert nine proposed deletions. Altered Walter (talk) 08:54, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete Fails WP:SONGS for having no significant chart/no major label demonstrated; a Google search failed to return significant information concerning a "Tinig Award"; & fails WP:RS for not having any. Яεñ99 (talk) 11:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Either delete or redirect to Basil Valdez due to a lack of reliable coverage for this song. Narutolovehinata5 10:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete. Not notable per WP:SONGS. Not enough viable material to justify a merge to any particular artist's page. Redirect isn't appropriate since the song has been recorded by multiple artists. -- Mikeblas (talk) 17:25, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. ‑Scottywong| soliloquize _ 18:15, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Religious terrorism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The article does not establish the notability of "religious terrorism." Articles already exist on the main topics covered: Islamic terrorism and Aum Shinrikyo. Secondary sources do not tend to link the two, or include the other groups briefly mentioned by the article. BigJim707 (talk) 07:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep but heavily clean up (userfying or projectifying could be an option). It's a bad article, and as you say, much of its content really is about something we already have an article on, but the topic is clearly notable (see eg. Juergensmeyer) and there's juuuust enough for WP:TNT not to be the best option. An article about the commonalities between various religions' terrorism, as taken from reliable sources, would be encyclopedic and informative. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 08:07, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Looking into the history, I find that all the material on Aum Shinrikyo was added by one user, and have removed it wholesale. Still not a good article, but this does address one of the concerns in the nomination. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep, this article could cover everything from modern-day Islamic terrorism, to attacks on black churches during the civil rights movements, to abortion clinic bombings/killings by religiously-motivated attackers, to the persecution of Jews throughout history. There would be more than sufficient sources to sustain the article. If it's in a poor current state, go fix that. Seraphimblade 08:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Neutral: The question, I think, is whether it's possible to treat religious terrorism as a diachronic phenomenon without extended acts of synthesis. Are there, in other words, enough scholarly treatments of religious terrorism in itself, rather than the religious terrorism of this or that country or people, to merit and substantiate a separate article? If there aren't, the article will almost inevitably deteriorate into either a random list of various species and instances of religious terrorism, or into original research. The article as it stands is fairly synthetic, and needs radical surgery. Alexrexpvt (talk) 08:57, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete: Because Polemical psychobabble is something wikipedia can do without. Also, how hypocritical is it too look at a piece that was blatantly written by someone with a specific agenda in mind, to convince or persuade readers of his own POV, and blithely pronounce it "neutral" "with no discernible POV" ??? This is the hypocrisy that will kill wikipedia, and exactly the flaw that makes it have the laughingstock reputation it has in certain areas. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 10:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Has someone "blithely pronounce" the article to be neutral, or did you take my neutral vote (i. e. abstention) to mean that I regarded the article as neutral? Or is it a tacit argument that keeping a POV-pushing article is tantamount to claiming that the article is NPOV? Alexrexpvt (talk) 12:45, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

It's nothing to do with your "neutral vote"; I am saying the article itself is not neutral, it could have no feasibly neutral purpose, and I am therefore urging it to be deleted outright. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 17:13, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Comment - This strikes me as a polemical essay about an encyclopedic topic. Whether it is fixable or should be blown up with an Improvized Pixel Eradicating Device to make way for a balanced article in the future is the main question here, I think. This is probably the sort of hatrack topic that's not ever going to be decent without being written by a couple genuine experts and then fully protected, however... Carrite (talk) 17:21, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - Upon further review, it's not as bad as I thought it was. Flaws are fixable. Keep. Carrite (talk) 17:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment: I like your first comment! But the article should at least start out defining what it means by the terms "religion" and "Terrorism" (should be lowercase), which terms it leaves undefined. Then if it did attempt to define these concepts, it would surely be even worse for pov, it already sounds a bit too much like Goebbels' writing since he also loved throwing out these kinds of words in essays meant to be persuasive, at whomever were pissing him off at any given time. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 17:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment I just read the article on Aum Shinrikyo and it looks more like they were trying to kill people because they wanted them dead, not to terrorize other people. They also tried to do it in secret, unlike most terrorists who often "claim credit" for their acts. Also note that in many parts of the world most people believe in one or another religion, or at least identify themselves as part of a religious community. That doesn't necessarily mean that all acts of terrorism in, say, the Middle East or Ireland, are themselves "religious." BigJim707 (talk) 18:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Merge to Terrorism, unless there is another article on motivations for terrorism then merge there. The notability, even the existence, of the topic is not established by the article. Look at the intro. It starts our with the uncited statement: "Religious Terrorism is Terrorism by those whose motivations and aims have a predominant religious character or influence." Then quotes one expert who says: "since 1980 there has been an increase in activity motivated by religion..." Then a government report that talks about: "Terrorist acts in the name of religion and ethnic identity...", not the same thing. Then cites a couple more experts who say: "religion should be considered only one incidental factor..." I don't see a notable topic. However the material should be discussed in a section in the larger article(s). Borock (talk) 20:17, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:GNG, WP:DUE. Islamic terrorism is obviously a form of religious terrorism. Deleting this article would probably result in it being redirected elsewhere, with "Islamic terrorism" being a potential target. We should be countering systemic bias by ensuring we consider topics from a neutral point of view, which we are in danger of not doing by wanting to delete this article. -- Trevj (talk) 13:56, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep per WP:GNG. While the article in its present state may not evidence notability, notability is a property of a topic, not an article draft, and the subject of religous terrorism is one which receives specific coverage in reliable sources. , , , , , , .... The nominator's claim that sources (by which he or she should mean "available" sources, not sources listed at the article) on the topic are unavailable is quickly belied by a simple Gbooks search. --j⚛e decker 15:13, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to Welcome to the Punch. MBisanz 17:50, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Ellie Darcey-Alden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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An actor with 3 bit-parts in film and four TV episodes. Fails WP:NACTOR. No independent, reliable references that are about her. Her brother's article is also up for an AfD. Prod was contested for unknown reasons. Bgwhite (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete fails WP:RS & WP:NACTOR. Яεñ99 (talk) 08:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete Just having done some professional work is not a justification for a BLP on a minor. --AJHingston (talk) 12:11, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Redirect to Welcome to the Punch (if that's the most recent film of hers on which we have an article) per WP:NACTOR and AJHingston. This would be an updated equivalent of the previous redirect to List of Harry Potter cast members#Order of the Phoenix members. -- Trevj (talk) 14:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

My only reason for updating this existing wikipage with more detail about Ellie was that it existed purely as a redirect link to her role on the List of Harry Potter cast members#Order of the Phoenix members. With a page already existing I thought I would add additional information regarding her acting career and background. If it is appropriate for a wikipage to exist purely as a redirect then I will be willing to undo the additions. Davesewell (talk) 00:20, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

• Comment She isn't listed in the cast of Welcome to the Punch so the role, at best, would be minor and insignificant. Sticking with delete until something significant occurs later in her career. Яεñ99 (talk) 04:08, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  The subject could be listed at Welcome to the Punch, per the ref I included above. And if not, why not reinstate the previous redirect (previous incarnation was BLPPRODed, with a redirect left in place)? -- Trevj (talk) 08:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect (I was asked my view of this on my talk page because I had been the deleting admin for the previous BLPPROD, and had introduced the redirect referred to above.) I tend to "work from the sources", and as far as I can see, the available non-trivial secondary sources are two articles from the Oxford Times , , and one, possibly reliable, from the Hollywood News. Two of the three refer to the Harry Potter role, so if we were to redirect, that seems to me to be the logical target.

One could make a WP:GNG argument for keep here based on the Oxford Times, and I would normally not be reluctant to do so, but some combination of specifics of the sources and the age of the subject leaves me feeling as if there's not quite as much solid information as we might want to really pen a biography. On the other hand, it would allow us to mention other verifiable roles, such as "The Snowmen" .

When we don't have a clear target for a redirect there's an argument that can be made for delete as well, and I don't choose that here because I feel that the HP role is still relatively primary in terms of reader's mindshare, based on the apparent distribution of occurrences in unreliable sources. --j⚛e decker 18:22, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:NACTOR. -- Mikeblas (talk) 15:24, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Joseph Darcey-Alden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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An actor with one TV episode and one acting job in a 14-minute film. Fails WP:NACTOR. No independent, reliable references that are about him. His sister's article is also up for AfD. Prod was removed by sock/vandal claiming "15-minute of fame rule". Bgwhite (talk) 05:41, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete If the "film" is only 14 minutes long, how could they claim the "15-minutes of fame" award? Also, fails WP:NACTORS - has not appeared in "multiple, notable" anything; does not demonstrate a "large fan base" or "significant cult following"; nor has he made "unique, prolific or innovative contributions" to the field of entertainment. He's 10 years old, and the page reads like a press release - fails WP:RS. Яεñ99 (talk) 08:30, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete We should be doubly cautious about BLPs on children. Lives can change and the very existence of such articles can be problematic. If he goes on to have an established career as an adult his early work can have a mention then. The likes of Hayley Mills should be a rare exception. --AJHingston (talk) 12:07, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NACTOR and AJHingston. -- Trevj (talk) 14:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

My apologies for misunderstanding Knowledge. Joseph and his sister are rising stars and I thought a page here might be appropriate. Unfortunately I cannot (it appears) delete this page myself so it must therefore go through this 'discussion' process for all to comment - sorry. Davesewell (talk) 00:12, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

• Delete per WP:NACTOR. -- Mikeblas (talk) 15:23, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Legal Reins (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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article doesnt give evidence of notability, the reference given is to allmusic, which doesnt have any of this info aside from a track listing for their one album. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 20:55, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Delete fails WP:RS for not having any - a simple listing on allmusic is not a reliable sourceЯεñ99 (talk) 07:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete, as per Яεñ99. 1292simon (talk) 11:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete - With four years of activity, it seems they never gained much attention or accomplished much. Searches including with Danny Benatar at Google News and Books provided nothing but two different searches (each with Danny Benatar and Tim Freund) provided this 1989 Los Angeles Times article where they played with another California band and this 1989 Washington Post. Another Google Books search provided this (first result from the top) which appears to be a benefit concert in San Francisco that same year. My next search was with the bassist Eden Unger (whose name now appears to be Eden Unger Bowditch) only provided this forum post which would be of questionable reliability. My last search was with their debut and only album, Pleasure the Pleasure, which provided this and this (both February 1989 and within a week of each other) and this seems to probably be the first February 1989 article. I also found this book to support Tim Palmer as the album's producer. Unsurprisingly, it seems their music never charted or was used commercially. To be absolutely sure that there weren't any links I passed, I performed a few more searches but to no avail. I think they were more of an indie and local band and they probably would've received better attention had they continued because all of the relevant news articles are from 1989, their final year. Redirecting to one of the producers would be an option but there wouldn't be much to support it aside from the Google book for Tim Palmer. SwisterTwister talk 20:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was speedy delete. The article was speedy deleted by User:Danger under CSD G3 as a blatant hoax. (Non-administrator closure.) Northamerica1000 08:35, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Gadget Boy (2013 TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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HOAX GenQuest 05:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - Hoax? How so? This is a modern French remake (they bought the rights) of the mid-90s Gadget Boy & Heather, which seems to have been particularly popular in France. WP:CRYSTAL maybe (does not air until next month), but I don't think it's a hoax. Stalwart111 05:13, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

One of the voice-actors from the original (Maurice LaMarche) is supposed to be coming back to reprise his role. If it's a hoax, it's a bloody complicated one! I'm not suggesting this shouldn't be deleted (there are zero news-type sources), just querying the nom. Stalwart111 05:24, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

: I am interested in what is your source stating that they bought rights to do a remake? Google has none (except verbatim reference(s) to the earlier–2012–hoax article); the article has none. See Knowledge:Hoaxes_on_Wikipedia; Gadget Boy (2013 TV series) — Purported 2013 revival of a 1990s Inspector Gadget spinoff; 17 October, 2012 — 15 December 2012; "references to the series on other Inspector Gadget-related articles also went untouched for 2 months."

Yeah, no, I don't have one - as I said there are zero sources. And I'm all in favour of deletion nonetheless. Just can't believe someone would put this much effort into a hoax - still can't believe it. But your explaination helps explain it. Bizarre! But in that case...

I think it is the old one resurfaced. Anyway, thanks. GenQuest 05:58, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Speedy delete - (now explained) hoax. The lengths some will go to! Stalwart111 05:42, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy delete - see page log for previous speedy and OTRS ticket supporting. Geraldo Perez (talk) 06:37, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Without prejudice to the creation of categories. MBisanz 22:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

List of criticism and critique articles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Previous AFD kept due entirely to WP:ITSUSEFUL and WP:HARMLESS arguments. I fail to see how this is a valid list, given that there is already at least one category navigating all these articles, and this does not serve any purpose the category does not. Ten Pound Hammer • 20:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

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• delete, the listed article have only a very loose connection. Say, Criticism of Islan is related to Criticism of Windows XP?. - Nabla (talk) 23:24, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
• Keep As creator, and as an argument brought up in the previous AFD brought up - this is a very handy navigation page that can coexist with categories. I for one hate navigating through categories and find this a much easier way to see in one hit what articles share this common thread. In fact, being able to easily compare and contrast "Criticism of Isla Windows XP" seems like a major plus to me. How are these criticism/critique articles different across Knowledge? How does this information help us in providing the best quality material for the encyclopedia? Maybe there are some weak links in the chain that haven't been categrorised yet, or that people have forgotten about. I can only find good in articles like this, which is why I have made many.--Coin945 (talk) 11:41, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

If it has any value as support material for editors - which I doubt, but accept the possibility - then it should be in Knowledge: namespace, not in article namespace. - Nabla (talk) 16:17, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Delete, although it's hard to make a policy-based argument because WP:LISTPURP does appear to allow lists like this – those that "serve as natural tables of contents and indexes of Knowledge". I agree with the point made in the previous AfD that a wider discussion about the appropriateness of indexes would be more constructive than nominating individual lists for deletion. DoctorKubla (talk) 06:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I will add, though, that since this particular article isn't so much a list of topics as a list of similar types of article, I can't see that many of the advantages of a list over a category really apply. For instance, the entries can't be annotated, the list can't contain any items that don't exist as articles, and no sourcing is necessary. DoctorKubla (talk) 06:21, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete Is this all the criticism articles WP has? I would have thought there would be hundreds. I would vote for delete since this mainly seems to be for insiders (WP editors), rather than for readers. Having said that it is very interesting, and somewhat amusing, but that's only to us I'm afraid. BigJim707 (talk) 07:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Policy-wise it could also be said that it is based only on a primary source, WP itself. BigJim707 (talk) 07:26, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Strong delete. The grouping of articles- hence the basis for this article- is WP:SYNTHESIS. Does not make sense to try to catalog every WP article with criticisms of the subject, for example it would also need to include any articles with text about criticisms of a topic. This list would be so large that it's useless. Also, it would be rife for misuse by editors looking to advertise their "criticisms of..." article. 1292simon (talk) 11:21, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment In answer to BigJim707's initial question, yes. It is indeed a complete list. In other news, I think rather than saying delete with great haste, we should instead (or at least also) be discussing what can be learnt from such a list. Does this reveal naming anomalies within Knowledge? Does it show what areas are over- or under-represented when it comes to these types of articles? Can the way criticism/critique articles on different topics are written provide a template for how others should be? I think the concepts behind these types of articles should be analysed as well as a simple vote for keep or delete, as I believe there is much goodness for Knowledge that will be revealed throughout such a discussion.--Coin945 (talk) 12:09, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete - not needed, and as people have said, essentially private to WP and also indiscriminate as thousands of articles have sections (or unnamed paragraphs) on criticism. If it's a personal selection of such articles, then it falls foul WP:NPOV. It must go. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:07, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete Index of loosely-connected articles. A category would be better. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 13:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. I can't see that the arguments for keeping are any less valid this time than they were 5½ months ago. For the reasons stated by Northamerica1000 and postdlf last time, and by Coin945 this time, this list is navigationally and organizationally useful; at minimum, move it into WP space rather than delete. --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

If some editors find this list useful for housekeeping purposes, then I am happy for it to exist in WP space. 1292simon (talk) 07:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep I fail to see why we should delete it just because there's a category, when WP:CLT says that isn't a reason for deletion: "For example, since editors differ in style, some favor building lists while others favor building categories, allowing links to be gathered in two different ways, with lists often leapfrogging categories, and vice versa." --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:49, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete and recreate in WP space. A list of semantically unconnected articles is simply not encyclopedic. A simple test is would this article be of interest to someone using this site as an encyclopedia?. In general I don't think so, whereas I can quite see the usefuleness for Wikipedians themselves. Mcewan (talk) 12:52, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Here's a question I pose to thee If these articles just don't have any right to be on Knowledge in their current form, (and as I still feel that categorisation in this fashion would extremely useful), what do we all think about categories based on these subarticle topics: Category:Criticism or critique articles, Category:Controversy articles, Category:Bibliography articles, Category:Comparison articles etc. ??--Coin945 (talk) 13:40, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Personally I am not a fan of categories at all, as currently implemented, so am probably not qualified to comment. And it's a question for a different forum. But I would object to those categories on the same grounds as to the subject of this AfD - they are not grouping articles as to their content or theme, but as to their form or implementation. Category:French dramatists - OK; Category:Articles containing the word Racine - Not OK. Mcewan (talk) 22:11, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete per Warden hitting the nail on the head in the previous AfD. The arguments against were in my opinion insufficient, is there any reason why this list should not be held up to Knowledge's notability requirements? WP:LISTN states "Notability guidelines apply to the inclusion of stand-alone lists and tables.", it makes no exemption for navigational/organizational lists. Nor, as suggested by postdlf, do WP:LISTPURP or WP:CLN provide an alternative guideline or override WP:LISTN in any way. (Interesting to note that all the examples of navigation lists that are discussed on WP:LISTPURP and WP:CLN have long since been redirected to portals). Arguments over the usefulness/harmlessness of the article or whether it conforms to the manual of style are rendered moot if the concept behind the article doesn't even pass WP:GNG. The selection of criticism and critique articles hosted on Knowledge has not received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Rubiscous (talk) 04:53, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - I question the relevance and validity of such lists as they are, by their very nature, subjective, based on the creator's criteria for selecting the content. Inevitably, other articles and sources will have been left out, making the list incomplete at its inception and bias cannot be ruled out.--Zananiri (talk) 11:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

• There is no bias involved in this article whatsoever. The criteria for selection is pretty straightforward, and clearly outlined in the intro. Articles like list of lists of lists have survived despite needing to be updated from time to time. I see no reason why these sorts of articles cant exist too.--Coin945 (talk) 12:35, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was redirect to Sewing a Friendship. (non-admin closure) Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 03:49, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Natalie Tinti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Self-published author; only claim to fame is appearing on a news segment of a local news show. OhNoitsJamie 17:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 December 18. Snotbot  t • c »  03:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Keep- Her first book was both self published and hard copy published by a publisher. It also won 7 recognized awards for children's literature. That wasn't long ago. I would argue this article could become irrelevant if subsequent books don't do well - or don't win awards. A childrens book which wins a 7 awards on debut, written by a 12 year old. Meanie (talk) 02:17, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Redirect to Sewing a Friendship. Until she writes another well-received book, there's too little coverage to justify her own article. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Redirect to Sewing a Friendship.Enos733 (talk) 05:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Redirect, as per Clarityfiend. 1292simon (talk) 11:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Redirect - she isn't notable outside the book so she can be briefly mentioned in that article. James086 15:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:41, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Frank Morrone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Effectively unsourced BLP. No awards or award nominations for him alone, always as part of a team. Not too many Google hits (about 18k including social media and Knowledge-clones). Doubtful if he makes WP:GNG The Banner _talk 21:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

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Comment: The most glaring thing to me on the page is Reference #8 at the very beginning of the Awards & Nominations section. It's IMDb, which means the whole section was probably copy-pasted anyway. They sourced that section but the Emmy source should violate something since the man is Governor of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences. — _Coyote 11:39, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Comment: Governor positions on the Board of Governors for the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences are positions voted on by your peers who are members of the Academy. In order to become a member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences you must prove significant credits in the industry and go through a long review and approval process. To become a Governor, members in your peer group must nominate you to run to represent them on the board and these individual's usually have significant credits and many times are Emmy winning individuals. The Emmy nomination and award process is totally separate and unrelated. The Emmy source is an independent source and is not impacted by being on the Board of Governors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pro999 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Alrighty then. — _Coyote 00:48, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

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Decline. More work has been done to this article. It could use more prose rather than lists, but it's better than some articles like this. — _Coyote 13:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep. His notability is established by the awards and distinguished positions. That EL list could use some winnowing, though. --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment Okay, the article is sourced now. But what is the value of a source like Nominees & Winners for the 69th Academy Awards or Golden Satellite Awards 1999 when Morrone isn't mentioned at all? Plain puffery? The Banner talk 06:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment I have removed the Oscar reference as suggested and have updated the Satellite Award reference to a page that notes the award recipients. Thanks - User Talk:Pro999 07:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Okay, I hope you are willing to remove other unreliable sources, like lostpedia (a wikia wiki), IMDb and Knowledge (!). All three can be edited by everyone, even by mr. Morrone himself. It would also be nice to have independent sources from outside the industry. And please source the list of films properly, not like "Black Robe" where you claim he was a nominee for a prize, but he is not even mentioned in the source you gave. Don't make up things! The Banner talk 14:04, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
    • The Black Robe notation was just a note about the film being a nominee not Morrone. That is why it is just noted in film list not in the awards section. I can remove that if it's confusing. I'll check for other references as you suggested and see what I can find. Realistically sources about the subject will be industry sources. They are not world news topics. Doing my best to try to make the article as detailed as possible with what I can find related to it. = Uesr Talk:Pro999 15:52, 13 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pro999 (talk • contribs)

• Keep per meeting WP:ANYBIO for awards and nominations. Schmidt, 20:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep per above. JJ98 (Talk) 05:55, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep, ditto above. Although room for improvement a lot of work has been done by different editors since first flagged AFD. Baldy Bill (talk) 04:23, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was delete. MBisanz 22:57, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

FSAstore.com (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This article is about an online store that doesn't meet our general notability guideline or WP:WEB as it hasn't received significant coverage in reliable, third-party sources. The article seems rather spammy, as well. ThemFromSpace 22:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

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Weak Keep as the site appears to meet WP:WEBCRIT. They are covered in Crain's business and and DowJones. If POV is the only problem a re-write would fix that. Blue Riband► 03:15, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

• Delete Fails WP:CORP which is the relevant guideline, also to my reading, fails WP:WEBCRIT. LK (talk) 04:23, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Delete While Google News and Highbeam both turn up various press-release articles about the firm and its funding, these just confirm existence; I'm not finding anything that could meet WP:CORPDEPTH or WP:WEBCRIT notability criteria. AllyD (talk) 19:41, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. MBisanz 00:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Karl Denninger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I propose that this article fails to meet the notability requirements. All of the sources appear to be either from the subjects own blog, or from very un-reputable sources.Djobouti_phat (talk) 23:08, 5 January 2013 (UTC)D

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• Redirect to Tea Party movement. Subject does not appear to be individually notable as there is a lack of significant coverage about the individual himself in multiple reliable sources. It appears he maybe notable within the context of an event relating to the Tea Party movement, and thus would fall under WP:BLP1E. Therefore a redirect to that event should be created, and what content is verified to reliable source(s) can be summarized and merged into where the redirect is targeted within the Tea Party movement article.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:49, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep I replaced various unreliable or self-published sources with reliable ones. More going on here than just the Tea Party thing, which in fact seems to be the least notable and well-sourced part of his biography; he was a mildly-famous Internet entrepreneur back in the 90s and got repeated coverage for that in Chicago newspapers, and between that and his finance blogging (for which, as one source points out, he got "national attention"), he seems to squeak by WP:N quant18 (talk) 08:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Meets GNG. He is covered by multiple reliable, independent sources and the sources are not WP:ROUTINE. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 13:28, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. MBisanz 17:47, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Adfonic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable company. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:46, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Weak keep. A quick search of Google, GNews and Scholar, discarding coverage instigated by the company itself in one way or another, suggests there may be just enough independent sources to meet WP:CORP.  —SMALLJIM  20:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Attempted to bring page in line with Knowledge guidelines. Not sure why the page states it's an orphan when there's a link from List_of_mobile_advertising_networks? (Disclosure: I work at Adfonic) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brendan Cooper (talk • contribs) 13:54, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

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• Keep. The references seem sufficient to establish notability. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:47, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

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