Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Log/2020 December 7

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:28, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Erik J. Berg

AfDs for this article:

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Am AfD'ing this on behalf of the ip, 2001:569:74D2:A800:CCDD:EC60:A7AC:7923. The gist of their request was, "The article Erik J. Berg was created back in 2009, and it has no citation sources at all. I have remove portions of unsourced content that includes removing the date of birth and birthplace the article still has no citation sources. Erik J. Berg was ineligible for proposed deletion for the second time. Now for my request could put the article Erik J. Berg into "Articles for deletion" for the 2nd nomination. On the 1st nomination at the Erik J. Berg the result on the 1st nomination was a "Keep". Now could you put Erik J. Berg into the articles for deletion for the 2nd nomination at the articles for deletion and unsourced content at the Erik J. Berg article and it does not meet the WP:GNG for my request." (the full text can be found at my talk page) I would like to point out that my !vote will go below. Onel5969 23:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - not a dupe vote, since I am not the true nominator of the article. Doesn't qualify as per WP:NACTOR, and a WP:BEFORE did not turn up enough in-depth coverage to pass WP:GNG.Onel5969 23:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - only kept by default because of lack of consensus before. Lacks major roles required for WP:NACTOR and coverage for WP:GNG. Not an actor that warrants inclusion in a general encyclopaedia. Spiderone 10:21, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Not a single resource to meet notability criteria. WP:GNG fail. Duncan079 (talk) 17:29, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:SNOW. A single Redshirt_(stock_character) role and a few cameos does not add up to notability. Bearian (talk) 20:08, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:29, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Infopreneur

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Who doesn't love to identify opportunities for creating enterprising information-based businesses by identifying knowledge deficiency situation and sell target-based information products and services? A neologism and a portmanteau about affiliate marketing (which ought to be three strikes already) with no sources worth phoning home about, and I couldn't find any with a web search. Wew lad. jp×g 22:58, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep The term is used in several news articles, lots of google book hits, including some where the term is part of the title and/or subtitle. Jeepday (talk) 18:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep: It has received a lot of coverage, especially in the news, books and scholar. Sources 1, 3 and 4 seem to be reliable. I even found reliable sources which talk about the term: , , , , , , and . ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 16:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Weak Keep One of those odd newfangled catch words that I would expect to see in a dictionary these days. Has coverage from a couple reliable sources. Duncan079 (talk) 16:54, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep in support of the research above, and having found similar results when I did a Scholar and News search. It does seem to be a term that should be available for a user to find here at the encyclopedia.--Concertmusic (talk) 19:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:29, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Car Craft Engineering

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This was a short lived kit car manufacturer. They didn't design cars, they built someone else's to order. They built 32 cars in total. There are some references to auto magazines which no doubt are true, but I can't read them. There is a German language article which says the same, but also gives some pictures of the bright yellow boxy kit cars. A google search didn't return anything useful. I don't think this company passes WP:N. We've previously deleted one of their cars Knowledge:Articles for deletion/CarCraft Cyclone Desertarun (talk) 22:46, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete I am not finding anything to support notability, the article claims 21 + 32 cars built, in two different models. Jeepday (talk) 18:05, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom and {{U}Jeepday}}. Not all car makers are notable. They appear to have made fewer than 70 cars. That's cars, not models. Bearian (talk) 20:12, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete No sources provided, I assume nominator already did a search per the requirements so i Would agree that it needs to be deleted. Peter303x (talk) 21:40, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Kwasi Busumbru

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Non notable businessman and politician who fails to satisfy WP:ANYBIO & WP:NPOL respectively. A before search turns up nothing concrete to show he satisfies GNG in the very least. Celestina007 (talk) 22:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep he satisfies a basic Knowledge notability criteria when he decided to run for office in the just ended Ghana 2020 elections but got disqualified. He has received some significant coverage in Ghanaian media because of that.Owula kpakpo (talk) 05:41, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Owula kpakpo can you provide a link to Knowledge policy that supports your statement "he satisfies a basic Knowledge notability criteria when he decided to run for office" Jeepday (talk) 18:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Deletet Unless I am missing something is not notable per WP:NPOL "an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability," I don't see anything about the candidates disqualification that would make them notable. Jeepday (talk) 18:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per NPOL and WP:MILL. A common candidate knocked off the ballot. Bearian (talk) 20:13, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete as per rationale by nom, fails WP:ANYBIO & WP:NPOL. Onel5969 23:24, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was redirect to Introduction to the heaviest elements. Missvain (talk) 01:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Introduction to superheavy elements

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It is redundant, and almost identical in content (diff), to Introduction to the heaviest elements, which is what is transcluded into articles. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 22:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Speedy delete as duplicate, though it doesn't take an AFD to just redirect. Reywas92 22:59, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Redirect to Introduction to the heaviest elements. I was unaware of this duplicate, and there is no need to keep it around. However, deleting it entirely might also delete a potentially useful redirect (as it formerly was the title of the transcluded section and is still useful in searches). ComplexRational (talk) 16:08, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Redirect per ComplexRational. Worth asking: why did R8R create both ? And: is not "Superheavy" more scientific to "heaviest"? -DePiep (talk) 22:59, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Redirect to Introduction to the heaviest elements or delete per above. Both article should have better, less essay like, titles. // Timothy :: talk 03:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Redirect per ComplexRational. Double sharp (talk) 16:41, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:31, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Matt Riedy

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Non-notable actor with only a single role which might be viewed as significant. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. Onel5969 18:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

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Keep. Notability includes his role as Arthur Griffin in Big Time Rush. He also voices Mike Haggar in the Marvel vs. Capcom video games. He narrated a show for 20 episodes Murder Among Friends (TV series). Important roles (not main but secondary/recurring) in films include The Den (2013 film), Broken Vows (2016 film), Boy Culture, Lovers Lane (1999 film) and Coffee Town. Also he voices General MacDonnell in Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare which should be a significant role. He has 117 credits on IMDb! Sahaib (talk) 15:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

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delete per nom. No sustained coverage and fails nactor. Praxidicae (talk) 03:49, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep Current article shows multiple roles with many blue links. Appears to meet WP:NACTOR Jeepday (talk) 19:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

So to clarify, you think that minor unnamed roles as an extra satisfy WP:NACTOR just because the film itself is bluelinked, Jeepday? Praxidicae (talk) 19:17, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep in support of Jeepday's argument. That many wikilinks, regardless of level of roles played, do make an impression. It just seems to be good information in an encyclopedia.--Concertmusic (talk) 22:01, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:31, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Neodymium(III) bromide

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This article does not prove notability, consisting only of basic characteristics, and based on Google Scholar, I suspect that there is nothing nontrivial about this compound, aside from routine Raman spectroscopy and mixtures with other compounds. Tagged for notability since December 2016; although the user was later found to be a sockpuppet, there is no reason to believe that this was done in bad faith. Consider this to be precedent for other inorganic compounds, for which I can't find any record in the archive. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 21:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep I am not aware of a specific notability criteria here, but clicking on the google books links returns LOTS of hits. Would seem to meet WP:GNG Jeepday (talk) 19:13, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep per Jeepday and WP:BEFORE. AfD is not for cleanup, and certainly not for expanding s stub into an article. Bearian (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep in support of Jeepday and seeing similar results in my own quick search.--Concertmusic (talk) 22:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep - meets WP:GNG. Onel5969 23:42, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:31, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Jeffrey A. Rich

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Non-notable per WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep 20:03, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom and WP:MILL. The award is NN. The "boards" seem to be committees of sorts. Bearian (talk) 20:16, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - simply does not meet WP:GNG. Onel5969 23:43, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was redirect to Camp Horn. Missvain (talk) 02:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Horn, Arizona

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There was pretty clearly a railroad station here: the foundations of three trackside buildings are still visible, and Street View also shows a water tank. These buildings also show up on topos, and that's about it: there is nothing else around except the inevitable parallel road and a strip of farmland a bit to the south, along the river. Searching is next to hopeless due to the multiplicity of false hits but I got nothing but clickbait. Mangoe (talk) 04:25, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Keep Its current status and inconvenient name are not reasons to delete. With an estimated population of 25 in 1933 (), it was described as a growing community in 1941, two years later it become the site of Camp Horn, Arizona, and rightly or wrongly it still appears on maps () and descriptions () as a location. If enough isn't found for a separate article it should be merged with Camp Horn, Arizona.----Pontificalibus 07:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

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Keep "There was pretty clearly a railroad station here..." Enough said. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Not in the USA. We have routinely deleted places that consisted only of a station stop. Mangoe (talk) 13:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

That's not what WP:RAILOUTCOMES says. My !vote stands. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Not really, it says "Other stations are usually kept or merged and redirected to an article about the line or system they are on. If there was sig coverage about a station here, it could have an article. If there was anything to merge into the article on the Union Pacific in Arizona, it could be merged. If it was mentioned in some article, it could be redirected. Otherwise, it's a delete from a rail perspective. MB 15:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Redirect to Camp Horn. No evidence of any kind of organized community here. Some people may have lived on farms in the area, leading to a mention or two that it was a community - because using the name of the closest named rail siding was convenient way to indicate the area. MB 15:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Redirect to Camp Horn. No evidence of any kind of organized community here per MB. Fails GNG and NGEO. // Timothy :: talk 00:25, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Redirect The site of the camp having been on the railroad can be covered there. Even WP:RAILOUTCOMES applied here, that would apply for a Horn railroad station article, not one about a community. Reywas92 18:52, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

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Redirect per above. WP:GEOLAND gives near-automatic notability to legally recognised populated places. I don't see any evidence that this place is or was legally recognised, even if it's mentioned as somewhere people lived. If it's an unrecognised populated place, or something else like a station, then it has to pass the WP:GNG. The passing mentions linked are not nearly sufficient for this. Hut 8.5 11:35, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

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Redirect to Camp Horn per above discussion. There is basically nothing to write about this community other than it possibly existed. FOARP (talk) 21:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The result of the debate was speedy keep for reasons below. RanDom 404 (talk) 01:10, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Compsosaurus

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Possible hoax? RanDom 404 (talk) 17:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Speedy Keep procedurally. definitely not a hoax article, just a poorly-described early doubtful genera. These are not inherently notable but there is no evidence that WP:BEFORE has been attempted. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Google Scholar turns up 2 pages of papers about this, with the most recent from 1998. Not well know enough to have warranted further study. Oaktree b (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep, per Knowledge:Notability (natural sciences)#Living things. {{u|Sdkb}}  22:54, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Eddie891 _Work 21:36, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Wynberg Girls' Junior School

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While apparently a successful school. Not enough in-depth coverage to pass WP:GNG or WP:ORGDEPTH. Onel5969 19:18, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per reason provided. HeyitsBen 19:24, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete. Per above. Lefcentreright 11:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete There are no secondary, indepdent, 3rd party sources for this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:49, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:31, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Khan Bahadur Mansur Ali Khan

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No apparent credible claim of significance, no apparent criteria to satisfy the GNG. TomStar81 (Talk) 19:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per WP:RS and WP:SIGCOV. Sources are blogs, Facebook, and what appears to be a self-published book. Bearian (talk) 20:18, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - not enough sources to pass WP:GNG.Onel5969 23:48, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was Snow keep. Consensus is that the StayC article meets WP:BAND. (non-admin closure) gidonb (talk) 00:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

StayC

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Article has an interesting log history, first tagged for copyvio, then for CSD A7 and G12, was moved to the draft space by Abdotorg for failing the GNG on November 18, then apparently recreated November 30 with attempt to fix the problems identified previously. In order to sort this, and in light of the constant back and forth with CSD and allegations of copyright infringement, I'm listing it here for community consideration. TomStar81 (Talk) 19:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep. Although the article may have had some issues in the past regarding notability, those have long since been improved upon, as is logical for a group that is 1 month post-debut rather than 1 week post-debut. The group has charted within the top 10 of a major music market, which meets the notability requirements for WP:BAND. Copyright infringement (although I'm not aware of any on this page) on its own is not a reason for deleting an article, but I'd be happy to edit out any issues that you see in the article's current state. Lukestepford (talk) 20:34, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Album and single have charted in the US and KO, although not very high. Oaktree b (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep has enough sources and meets musician notability guidelines by having charted in top 100 of a country chart.Peter303x (talk) 22:16, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Substantial sources, good enough music chartings domestically (GAON) or internationally (Billboard). In addition, the said "copyright infringement" site is like Namu Wiki, a site that shouldn't be used as reference when drafting a page in Knowledge. Speedthief1 (talk) 02:03, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep The group's debut has charted on Billboard or on the Gaon Charts, which makes them pretty well-off and notable enough to host their own article, and they are on the same tier as the other K-pop idol groups with their own pages that debuted this 2020. I don't really see why their page should be taken down over copyright infringement issues when it still can be improved upon as more credible information becomes available. Corpomosis (talk) 10:06, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep as has charted, their album reaching no. 6 on the Korean National chart and together with reliable sources coverage such as the South China Morning Post they pass WP:NMUSIC so that deletion is unnecessary in my view. Also have just ran a copyvio check with the earwig tool and its come up clean. Atlantic306 (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep, meets #2 of WP:BAND. Onel5969 23:50, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:32, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

List of Argentine football announcers

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I can't see a list like this belonging in an encyclopaedia. The only way of properly sourcing this and keeping it up to date will be to reference it to primary sources; there are no secondary sources covering this topic. Almost all of the people in this list are not notable.

As per WP:LISTN - One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources - I see no evidence of that for this topic.
WP:LISTPURP - this list is not informative, it does not aid in navigation nor is it useful for development purposes.
WP:ATD - there is no obvious merge or redirect target. I'm also strongly against merging anything that's basically WP:OR.
WP:RS - the sources used do not look reliable and I'm not convinced that any RS exist for this topic.
WP:OR - this is currently original research Spiderone 09:18, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - per nom, no evidence of notability, LISTCRUFT. Giant Snowman 09:36, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep We have a List of British football commentators and similar lists for other nations. To single out the Argentine list for deletion on the occasion of the death of Diego Maradona would be in poor taste. Announcers such as Roberto Perfumo and Víctor Hugo Morales are quite famous in this field. Latin announcers have an extravagant style which is the subject of academic study. See here and there, for examples. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:58, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Actually the British one is the only other list as the rest are categories so will have different criteria. It could also be argued that both of these lists are a violation of WP:NOTDIR (Knowledge is not a TV Guide) Spiderone 11:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Also, Andrew, your response does not address the important issue of sourcing. Is there even one reliable, secondary source that lists the notable current Argentine football announcers? Spiderone 11:34, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I provided two sources while the nominator does not seem to have provided any evidence in support of their proposal. Looking further at the current content, I see that it doesn't contain either of the famous announcers that I listed. I do notice the amusing name of Diego Fucks and find that they have an article in the Spanish Knowledge. The topic is likely to be covered best in that language but, as I'm neither fluent in Spanish nor a football fan, I'm not the best person to follow up these leads. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:49, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I am not questioning the notability of Roberto Perfumo and Víctor Hugo Morales as your source clearly proves that the former is notable. My issue is that this list does not meet our inclusion criteria. As I explain above, this does not meet LISTN and does not have any valid purpose under LISTPURP. At best, we could make some of these links link to the Spanish Knowledge versions of the individual but I'm not sure if that's generally the done thing. In addition, there are serious WP:V issues in that there is no accurate listing of Argentine commentators across the networks so the only possible way to source this article will be direct from primary sources if even that. This is original research and there is no valid source covering this as a group. Individual Argentine commentators may well be notable and they may well gain interest but I don't see how this list benefits our encyclopaedia and, since the only other similar list is the British one, I don't think that the 'other lists exist' is a particularly effective argument here. Spiderone 12:10, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Own GOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!! Lugnuts 13:19, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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Question - does anyone have any reliable sources that discuss in depth and/or list Argentine football announcers? Spiderone 16:56, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: nom summed this up very well, there are not sources showing this is discussed as a group, fails GNG LISTN LISTPURP. // Timothy :: talk 11:51, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - does not meet WP:LISTN. And bravo to Lugnuts - brilliant. Onel5969 23:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. After article improvement, consensus is keep. (non-admin closure) Onel5969 23:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Marijn Backer

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No sources since its creation in 2009. There's a claim of importance here though I don't really get much in Google searches beyond entries for his books. There's one news article in which he's mentioned in a caption but not in the body. — 🦊 09:38, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete Fails GNG. Teacher. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment WP:JUSTAVOTE. User voted twice delete within 1 minute. Totally ignored the relevant professional standard claiming the person is a teacher. Being an educator is not what Backer is notable for, although it does relate to his nonfiction and youth fiction writing. Subject is an award-winning and frequently reviewed author (as all authors in major Dutch publishing houses are) and should never have been nominated. gidonb (talk) 01:20, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment. I doubt he's notable for his work as a schoolteacher but he has a plausible case for notability through WP:AUTHOR: Google Books finds multiple books authored by him, and the two links in the "Awards" section of the article are to notable awards for writing. However we would need to find published reviews of the books or sourcing for the awards to confirm this. As he appears to be writing mainly children's books in Dutch, that probably means that the sources would also be in Dutch (not a problem for using them as sources, but it makes it more difficult for non-Dutch-speakers to find). —David Eppstein (talk) 21:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep. Meets WP:AUTHOR #4c, has won an important prize and is included in an authoritative lexicon. Backer also meets the basic standard of the WP:GNG. There were no references but per WP:NEXIST "The absence of sources or citations in an article (as distinct from the non-existence of sources) does not indicate that a subject is not notable. Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate presence or citation in an article." I added a few references and there are many more sources. I hope that others will add more references. There is absolutely no lack of sources or interest in this Dutch author. gidonb (talk) 06:11, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep per WP:HEY. Now there are enough reviews (or I guess recencies) to make a second case for WP:AUTHOR notability beyond the awards. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:37, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Comment. With bios usually a few references support notability and the rest only support data in the article. This article is rare since all 15 references support the subject's notability. I can add more but time-consuming and the WP:HEY level was clearly reached. It puzzles me why this article was nominated in the first place. If one does not know how to find references in foreign languages, the correct remedy is adding a {{references}} template. Not AfD. gidonb (talk) 01:16, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Even beyond the 15 references, I have added 2 more references that support the subject's notability and 2 more that don't -- to support the 18 translations. gidonb (talk) 13:56, 7 December 2020 (UTC) I upped to 22. Still, a for bios exceptionally high proportion of the references support notability. gidonb (talk) 20:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 19:00, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep Significant effort expended and good sourcing changes made to the article. I would ask the other reviewers on this thread to revisit for another evaluation.--Concertmusic (talk) 19:54, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Agree with the previous comments that his awards make him a notable author, even if he isn't notable as a teacher. Papaursa (talk) 22:19, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 02:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Mírzá Mustafá

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Does not qualifies WP:BASIC Serv181920 (talk) 13:53, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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Keep a named apostle of the founder of the Baha’i faith, equivalent to a Christian apostle or one of the close companions of the prophet Muhammad. Mccapra (talk) 14:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Delete - for the non-notable people listed as apostles of Baha'u'llah, a section on the page Apostles of Baháʼu'lláh is sufficient. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 17:26, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep >> I agree with Mccapra. --Nerdtimer (talk) 21:41, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Delete one source is not enough to justify an article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:28, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep as obviously being a topic that any self-respecting general encyclopedia not limited by size should cover. Anyone concerned that there is only one source cited can add others found by clicking on the word "books" above. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:19, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete- I agree with Cunado.Fails WP:GNG Jammu58 (talk) 09:41, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep per Mccapra and Phil Bridger. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:14, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 19:00, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep We appear to run into the danger of looking for sourcing in just English. This does appear to be quite notable, and there are plenty of mentions in books on Baha'u'llah.--Concertmusic (talk) 19:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep per Phil Bridger; clicking on 'books' does indeed show many significant mentions in reputable books Spiderone 20:36, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was no consensus. After a second extended discussion it seems that this VC firm is a borderline case of notability and so there is still no consensus as to whether or not it should be kept or deleted. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:48, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Toba Capital

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NCORP, WP:DEL14 scope_creep 09:38, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

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Keep - I created this article. It was nominated for deletion in 2018, and the discussion was closed as no consensus. Since then, the article has been further improved with additional info, suggesting even less of a reason to delete it now. TimTempleton 01:38, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Keep per my comment in the previous AfD at Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Toba Capital. There is sufficient coverage about Toba Capital in this article in The Mercury News titled "With Toba Capital, Vinny Smith suddenly emerges as a player in the venture industry" and this article in the Orange County Business Journal titled "Toba Rolls Ahead With String of Exits, IPO" to establish notability per Knowledge:Notability#General notability guideline.
The Mercury News article contains quotes from interviews with Toba founder Vinnnie Smith, but there is enough research from the journalist to establish notability:
Former Quest chairman and CEO Vinny Smith, for his part, is plowing the fortune he reaped from the sale into a new venture firm called Toba Capital.
In the past few months, Toba has invested in more than a dozen enterprise software startups. On Tuesday, San Jose’s Quorum — a maker of data-recovery software — will become the latest addition to Smith’s portfolio, with an $11 million infusion.
...
And Smith is spreading the wealth beyond the Bay Area. Though he’s recently opened a three-person San Francisco office, his team of software-executives-turned-investors also is deployed in New York, Texas, Minnesota and Southern California.
...
Since getting back into the venture business, he’s attacked things with gusto. Last month, Toba led a $10 million investment in Palo Alto software maker WSO2; last week, Smith’s firm doled out $9 million for Codenvy, a San Francisco startup that helps developers build and test apps via the cloud.
...
As for the firm’s name? It refers to the Toba Eruption, a volcanic explosion in Indonesia more than 70,000 years ago that some scientists believe led to a global winter that supercharged human evolution.
Cunard (talk) 08:06, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Specifically fails WP:CORPDEPTH as an announcement of the IPO for the first ref and WP:ORGIND, with Smith, 48, who rarely grants interviews, told this newspaper he expects to put as much as $150 million into venture deals this year. According to figures from the National Venture Capital Association, only half a dozen venture firms invested more in the valley in 2012. scope_creep 12:00, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

You bring up a good additional point for voters and closers to consider. This is a very publicity shy company, so it took a lot of effort for the media to even get the information out that we have in this article. This is the largest venture-capital company in Orange County, California. TimTempleton 17:36, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

@Timtempleton: Since when has publicity and shyness been linked to notability. I don't believe it is. I think if the company was sufficiently large it would generate its own wake, sufficient to get an article and it wouldn't need to rely on a furtive director to provide its branding. scope_creep 14:52, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 14:12, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment Lets have a look at the references:

* Top VC Firms Invest 47% More in Local Companies Its paywalled.

* Quest Vet Dickson Unretires For New Enterprise Its paywalled.

* Smith moves on after grueling battle with Dell An interview. Fails WP:ORGIND

* With Toba Capital, Vinny Smith suddenly emerges as a player in the venture industry Smith, 48, who rarely grants interviews. Fails WP:ORGIND. An interview.

* Dell sells its majority stake in Smarsh to investment fund Toba Capital Routine annoucment of sale of stock. “It’s been a dramatic difference for us, even in a short amount of time,” said Stephen Marsh, Smarsh’s founder and chief executive, reflecting on the new ownership. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH as trivial announcement. Fails WP:ORGIND Interview style article.

* Toba Puts $4M into Kids' Drink Maker Paywalled, but routine announcement of investment. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.

* Toba Backs Software Startup Paywalled.

* PatientPop Picks Up $10M Routine announcement. This crowd seems to be a bit more honest in their approach. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH

* Tech investor Peter Thiel ups stake in Lystable Paywalled, but not specifically about company. Funding news. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.

* Toba in $11M Series A Round Paywalled but more routine investment announcements. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.

* Duplicate news. Effectively non-rs.

* On Vinny’s Table: Impact Investing Paywalled. Likely routine announcements.

* Vinny Smith's Toba Capital Gets Exit At Codenvy Routine announcement. WP:CORPDEPTH

* Toba Capital Backs Grow.com In $16M In Funding More funding announcements from a company that provides funds. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.

Looking at these refs, they are effectively the news of the companies operation. Not a single references, starting from the first reference, indicates why it is notable. It is a small private company of 15 individuals with no evidence of being notable. It is entirely non-notable as it exactly the same as numerous other VC funds of similar, of which they are hundreds. It entirely generic in nature. All that has been presented in its references, are a list of operations as announcements in local trade papers. It fails WP:CORPDEPTH, WP:ORGIND, WP:SIRS, WP:DEL4, WP:DEL14 and WP:NOTDIR. It has no place on Knowledge. scope_creep 12:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Delete another run of the mill company looking to promote, with duplicate after duplicate offered up as support. Blacklisteffort (talk) 23:59, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Comment - this is not a run of the mill company - it’s the largest venture capital firm in Orange County, CA, and is controlled by a tech billionaire. I’m not getting how this is promotional - all the sources demonstrate sustained continuous third party media coverage, satisfying NCORP. TimTempleton 20:12, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment User above has been blocked as a sock, one of at least two created to vote delete in recent AfD discussions for articles I created. Am I allowed to strikethrough the comment since they've been blocked, to make this more clear? TimTempleton 19:49, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Comment I just struck through the sock comments per site convention. TimTempleton 21:42, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete I've really no idea how the last AfD was closed as No Consensus. None of the references meet the criteria for establishing notability. Cunard has no credibility in listing sources as 99% of the sources he lists in NCORP-related AfDs fail NCORP requirements and I commented on the failed references at the last AfD. HighKing 09:40, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Comment Unless it says otherwise at the reliable sources noticeboard, these sources are all independent third party media outlets, and are just as good as the sourcing used for most articles. From what the media reports about the company and its publicity-shy founder, I bet they’d be happy to have this deleted. But it’s not up to them if we deem them notable enough, and the sustained media coverage makes it so. TimTempleton 20:20, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

You're missing the point. Let's assume they're all "independent third party media outlets" - that says nothing about the content which, as you know, also has to meet a standard as described in ORGIND. None of those references meet that standard. "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. All the references above are PR and announcements with information provided by the company or a connected source. Fails our guidelines to establish notability. HighKing 14:28, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't think I'm missing the main point, which is that this is the largest VC firm in Orange County, with over $1B invested, and that makes the company notable. If you can refute that, I'm all ears. I'm in an ongoing debate about sources that are based on company announcements, but we both know that there's a gatekeeping process. Otherwise, more non-notable company announcements would see the light of day. In addition, the numerous independent reliable and clearly verifiable sources that have been identified and integrated into the article detail the scope of the company's investment impact on the tech world, a subject underrepresented on Knowledge. If you can't read any that are paywalled, I'd be happy to email them to you. I just realized that an article was created for founder Vinnie Smith since you nominated Toba Capital for deletion two years ago. Before the Smith article was created, you suggested at Talk:Toba Capital that you thought he was more notable and that the company article should be renamed to an article in his name. I think if you read both articles now you'll see that will be awkward, but you can always suggest a merge proposal and see where it goes. TimTempleton 20:24, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

It is an odd situation. Sources that may be used to support facts and information in an article do not have the same criteria as sources that may be used to establish notability. I notice you refer to these sources as "independent reliable clearly verifiable" but I would argue that your use of the word "independent" only refers to "corporate independence" in that there are no dependencies or corporate connections between the topic company and the publisher. You are deliberately not asserting that the content is independent because if you did, you know it would in all likelihood meet NCORP. There's no getting around the requirement for references that meet NCORP, nothing more, nothing less. So to be clear - I'm not refuting the "facts" in the article insofar as the AfD process is only concerned with notability, I'm simply pointing out that the references to date fail NCORP. HighKing 18:30, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting per the requests of Tim and Cunard. Sorry for the mix up everyone. One of those weeks...
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 18:57, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep There is enough to pass WP:NCORP and WP:GNG. It is clearly not a promotional article, and has not been the target of paid/COI editing. This sort of company often prefers a lower profile, so the coverage is relatively thin for an organisation of this significance. Edwardx (talk) 14:39, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Edwardx: Can you describe to be exactly why a company of 15 people, is notable, particular since the coverage is woefully bad? scope_creep 17:44, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Scope creep: I think you are the only one saying the sourcing is woefully bad (although HighKing agrees with your opinion that the sources don't show notability). I disagree, and have to reiterate that it's all independent coverage, in reliable third party sources, which by definition exactly meets WP:NCORP guidelines. I don't want to hit reviewers over the head with a wall of citations, which indeed wouldn't add more substance to the article, but you can see this link showing the 278 Toba Capital articles published just in the Orange County Business Journal alone. ] They're paywalled, but I can send any of them to you if you'd like. Just send me the URL. Also per NCORP, "Notability requires only that these necessary sources have been published—even if these sources are not actually listed in the article yet". I just added some minor recent coverage from the LA Business Journal, to add to the demonstrated range of media sources reporting on the company. Also, the number of employees a company has shouldn't be the basis of notability, since you could never argue the reverse - that a large headcount alone implies notability. It helps, but you still need media coverage. TimTempleton 22:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Timtempleton:, I'll disagree with you saying that it is "all independent coverage". What is your definition of "independent" exactly? Because I don't think it is the same as WP:ORGIND which is part of the applicable guidelines for companies. Post a link to the best reference here and lets discuss exactly why you believe it is "independent" and we can also look at NCORP to show why it might not. HighKing 19:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

@HighKing: They're all independent, per Knowledge's definition. From WP:IS, "An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a given Knowledge topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective. Independent sources have editorial independence (advertisers do not dictate content) and no conflicts of interest (there is no potential for personal, financial, or political gain to be made from the existence of the publication)." If I'm writing an article about a notable company, I avoid using primary sources like press releases or links to a company web site unless absolutely necessary, even though others at the help desk have told me that press releases are allowed as sources, I suppose if you preface the info with "The company announced ...". I'm not going to make it easier to challenge the article by proxy by singling out any single coverage - the article needs to stand on the body of sources I identified. Diligent reviewers and closers can read Knowledge's relevant policy and the sources themselves. I posted a link above to 278 articles in just one independent publication alone. It shouldn't matter at this point, but I'll reiterate my offer to send the text for any of those articles to any interested readers - please email me using the email contact process on my talk page. Lastly, I'm trying to understand how you are interpreting WP:ORGIND versus WP:IS based on our past discussions, and please correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, but the only conclusion I can come to is that you feel that if an article was started because a media outlet based it on a press release it read, than that immediately disqualifies the coverage for being dependent? That's a narrow interpretation that I don't think is valid; otherwise, very little coverage would survive. As an off-the-cuff example, this ] would preclude us from writing about Apple's new headphones. TimTempleton 22:05, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Timtempleton Why use WP:IS, which isn't even a guideline nor has any official standing, to cherry-pick a definition which suits your narrative when the actual official guideline in WP:NCORP specifically gives a definition of "Independent" at WP:ORGIND which has been pointed out to you multiple times. What you're trying to do is make room for regurgitated press releases and announcement to establish notability which would lead to an avalanche of spammy company articles. What NCORP strives to achieve is to require references which are not based on company announcements and PR. If the company is notable then it is obvious that somebody, somewhere will just write about them and provide genuine "independent" analysis or commentary and not just regurgitate whatever the company says. HighKing 12:14, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete. Lots of incidental coverage but scope_creep's source assessment above (and HighKing's in the last AfD) are on the money—not seeing which sources are meant to prove in-depth coverage of the company itself. Ping me if you find what's paywalled behind those OCBJ articles, though. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 08:36, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Comment Czar Here's one with updated investment info that I just added, just one of the 278 articles about them in the OCBJ. It was from a VC themed issue in February, and anoints them as the "800 lb gorilla of Orange County". I PDF'd it and uploaded to Google drive - hopefully you can read it. ] Here is the full list of all the OCBJ coverage - if there are any that you're interested in, I'll pdf them as well ]]] TimTempleton 00:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep The sources provide enough coverage in my mind to support the information in the article. This seems good information to have in an encyclopedia, and should be improved rather than deleted if there are concerns about sourcing.--Concertmusic (talk) 22:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

if you actually looked at the references, which I don't believe you did, you would see that they are actually very low-quality, that in terms of semantics, fail certain Knowledge policies, for which the most important notability policy for business articles is WP:NCORP. It is clear from your non-reason based rationale that you haven't read that either. scope_creep 23:01, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment - the company meets WP:NCORP. The "organization ... has attracted the notice of reliable sources unrelated to the organization or product. Notability requires only that these necessary sources have been published." San Jose Mercury News, the Orange County Business Journal, Los Angeles Business Journal, TechCrunch and the Boston Globe clearly show reliable coverage by unrelated sources. TimTempleton 00:35, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep. There are many company articles that lack adequate sourcing, and many company articles that are obviously promotional in tone, and I !vote to delete those ones. This is not one of those ones. General arguments about how this opens the door to a putative flood of spam articles do not convince me here. Billion-dollar venture capital firms are not the same thing as Bargain Bob's Boot Bonanza. We can still apply NCORP to, say, Bob's Phone Repair And SEO Marketing Solutions. In addition, I was able to access one of the OCBJ articles, and there was no evidence to me that it was "dependent coverage". The word "routine" is being used pejoratively here, as though it's an objective term, and I'm not sure what it means in this context. It's routine for news organizations to report on news. I do not see a strong argument against keeping the page, scope_creep responding to every single keep !vote notwithstanding. jp×g 07:57, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
Comment I see your another editor that doesn't agree with NCORP that is both disruptive and against Wikipeda Terms of Use. Here is Orange County Business Journal advertising page. It gets so much advertising, that it has total of 9 separate account managers for a relatively small readership of around 20k people. That tells me that most of the money tha journal makes is from advertising. What we have is concerted effort to subvert Knowledge Terms of Use to ensure fintech company with 7 employess has some extra advertising. Tim, your definition of what contitutes notability is abosolutly jaundiced. Particulalry when all the references you have posted above, which I examined last night also fails WP:NCORP. Being a billion dollar vc firms, that is your rationale for being notatable, with only 7 people employed there. scope_creep 12:58, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm literally quoting the policy you cited as being most relevant, word for word, and it suggests keep. How is supporting that disruptive? Once consensus changes, going against it starts to be the disruptive act. What's the saying - "hate the game, not the player"? And my offer to show any of the other hundreds of independent sources about the company still stands. TimTempleton 17:51, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Accusing people of disruption because they don't agree on your interpretation of a guideline is unwarranted, and making paragraph-long replies to every single person who disagrees with you on an AfD is bludgeoning, but baseless accusations of CoI are inexcusable. Do you have any evidence at all to demonstrate the claim that I'm part of a "concerted effort" to "subvert the terms of use" to ensure a company has "extra advertising"? If not, please apologize and strike your comment. jp×g 00:06, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete per nom and scope_creep comments above. Kolma8 (talk) 11:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Ultimate Soccer Manager

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Lack of significant coverage in reliable sources DocumentError (talk) 07:51, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 09:54, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep this was one of the most famous soccer management games of the 1990s - let me see what I can do to save this. SportingFlyer T·C 12:25, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

All I've found online so far is this review, a mention in a Dutch book on video games, a Stuff list saying it was the 25th best soccer video game of all time and two newspaper clippings showing it was in the top 10 best-selling video games in Australia in 1997, for I think a week. However the internet won't be the best place for searching for notability as this was a 90s game that I'm certain would have been reviewed in other major sources similar to the Independent. SportingFlyer T·C 12:38, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

SportingFlyer the problem is that this article is not about one game, but the whole series. It mistakenly calls new games as "versions", which isn't true. First ref is just about the last game, Stuff is about the first game, etc. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 11:24, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment This content can be encyclopedic if could cite more indepent source, i think there are some reference out there on GnewsLynndonald (talk) 13:52, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Comment Ultimate Soccer Manager 98 (DSF Fussball Manager 98 in Germany) is absolutely notable, finding at least 4 reviews for it , (mentioned above), , , but the series as whole (what this article is about) was never covered and thus not notable per WP:GNG, so I am leaning to delete here. If needed, any entry could have its own Knowledge article separately. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 11:18, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@Jovanmilic97: I'm still a keep - I'm sure you'd find reviews for the earlier games if you look in the right spots, and we also group games together by series when they're not individually notable enough for their own article: see Front Page Sports Football. SportingFlyer T·C 11:45, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Draftify I found a review of the original title, it's hard to believe there aren't more out there. People who are better at finding sources should at least be given some months to do just that._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 19:55, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fenix down (talk) 07:57, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Draftify - I think that is the best option. It was always going to be difficult to find online sources for this game. Draftifying would at least give someone the chance to find offline sources should they wish to. Spiderone 21:44, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Draftifying doesn't make sense. This article has been on the website since 2004, only six years after the last edition of the game. Draftifying works best with articles that are WP:TOOSOON that will be notable soon, or newly created articles that were moved into mainspace too quickly, where there's an author willing to work on them. Draftifying this will likely ensure its deletion, considering sources exist but are difficult to find. I've added two older magazine reviews to the article - a look at MobyGames shows there are more out there. SportingFlyer T·C 13:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

It's a difficult one. I think we all know that the topic is notable but proving it is a different matter. Might be one of those rare times when we should just WP:IGNOREALLRULES and keep it. Spiderone 16:33, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 15:50, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Delete while the individual games might be notable on their own, the series as a whole has not received coverage. This article can become a standalone article for the original game if enough sources (like reviews) are found for the game. I do not support draftify because I do not see how the series' notability will change in a few months. Z1720 (talk) 00:13, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

We typically cover video game series as a whole without requiring them to be covered as a series. That's not a reason for deletion. See other examples, for instance Front Page Sports Football, World Basketball Manager, Out of the Park Baseball, Football Manager. There's also proof of sources existing in the form of reviews here, here, here, and here. SportingFlyer T·C 00:46, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I am still keeping my delete opinion because I don't think the other stuff exists argument is valid in this case. The notability of the series is in question for this AfD and I don't think there is enough coverage of the series to justify keeping the article as is. Also, Mobygames is considered unreliable on WP:VG/RS (this wikilink also lists reliable sources pertaining to video games.) Z1720 (talk) 01:06, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

You've misunderstood both of my arguments. I'm not saying this is notable because those are notable. I'm showing we frequently discuss video game series in one article, without requiring the entire series to be notable, as a way of consolidating articles. Also, I'm not saying this is notable because it has an article on Mobygames. I'm saying there are multiple reviews on the Mobygames page which can be used to show notability and develop the article further. SportingFlyer T·C 16:53, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: third times the charm
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 18:55, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep. The Mobygames aggregator links above are sufficient—multiple major reviews for each game and when considered together, sufficient for an overview article. Instead of separate articles for each game, use this one to build sections in summary style. Draftify doesn't make sense in cases like this. Expert source searchers are not going to arbitrarily come out of the woodwork in the next several months. Ask a noticeboard and you'll get some bites, but otherwise drafifying rarely makes sense unless someone is explicitly asking to work on it in isolation. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 09:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Great discussion. I would much prefer to keep and improve rather than delete. The arguments of czar and SportingFlyer carry the day in my mind.--Concertmusic (talk) 22:31, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep per above. Kolma8 (talk) 11:08, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 09:13, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Involuntary narrative

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Article about an apparent neologism. I can find sparse sources but not sure whether this is sufficient to demonstrate notability. Seeking community consensus. Mccapra (talk) 23:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per WP:OR and WP:GNG. I would not oppose a redirect to an appropriate target. Bearian (talk) 01:44, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Comment The article seems to come verbatim from World Heritage Encyclopedia - my link to show the article there was rejected, however. It's likely a worthy subject for an article, but not in copy-and-paste manner without sourcing.--Concertmusic (talk) 16:18, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Interesting. I didn't come across that in my search but when I look now I can't even get the WHE to load properly. My guess is that the person who was trying to propagate this neologism was responsible for the entry there as well as for our article here. Mccapra (talk) 17:28, 7 December 2020v (UTC)
OK I've finally got it to load and there is no entry for 'involuntary narrative’. Searching for that term just throws up a bunch of unrelated items with the word 'involuntary' in them. Mccapra (talk) 18:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure why this link comes up as blacklisted - please check for Gutenberg and article ID = WHEBN0028885249.--Concertmusic (talk) 19:39, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete - Appears to be an attempt at a WP:NEOLOGISM that failed at gaining any sort of widespread use. The content currently in the article seems largely comprised of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Searching for sources terms up pretty much nothing that are not just mirrors of this article. There are results from papers that happened to use the two individual words, but none of them appear to be discussing the subject of this article. The entry at the "World Heritage Encyclopedia" mentioned by Concertmusic above is actually just a mirror of this article - it specifies at the bottom that it was copied from this Knowledge article, not the other way around. Rorshacma (talk) 19:23, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I wonder why it didn’t come up when I searched for it. Mccapra (talk) 19:37, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete as per WP:NEOLOGISM. Doesn't meet notability criteria. Onel5969 18:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Withdrawn by nom. (non-admin closure) Mhhossein 06:53, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Narcolepsy Network

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No significant coverage per WP:ORG. SL93 (talk) 23:11, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete NO RS establishing this as meeting general notability. Deathlibrarian (talk) 00:08, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
KeepAs pointed out there is RS on Google scholar. I also checked web of science and there was 8 RS journals on there referring to this database. I've added some extra references and content. Changed my vote to keep. Deathlibrarian (talk) 12:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Comment I am finding lot's of Google News results on "Narcolepsy Network," mostly they seem to be passing mentions, but there may be enough to justify a keep.This needs more research or improvement from the author. Expertwikiguy (talk) 02:17, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Greene, Gayle (2008). Insomniac. Berkeley: University of California Press. ISBN 978-0-520-24630-0. Retrieved 2020-12-07.
  The book notes on page 104:
  There are booths for the ... and the Narcolepsy Network. ... I have a long talk with a woman from the Narcolepsy Network, another advocacy group that came from humble beginnings. Begun in the mid-1980s by three or four women, it now boasts more than 1,200 members, including families, physicians, and researchers. It maintains dozens of patient support groups, distributes a quarterly newsletter, hosts a Website, participates in clinical trials, and advises members about disability laws and other matters.
  The book notes on page 356:
  The Narcolepsy Network similarly emerged from small beginnings, from the vision of thirteen women who came together from self-help groups in 1984. It now has over twelve hundred members, and, as one of them told me, "now NIH comes to us for ideas." As a result of its work publicizing this disease, "in the last twenty years, the average time from onset of symptoms to diagnosis has dropped from twenty-five years to nine"—a major accomplishment! Members of the Narcolepsy Network also ...
2. Coburn, Susan (2001-10-01). "Outlet for Narcolepsy". Stamford Advocate.
  The article notes:
  The Narcolepsy Network, a national non-profit organization formed in 1986, offers a wealth of information and support for people who have narcolepsy, their families and friends, and professionals involved in the treatment, research, and public education regarding the disorder at www.narcolepsynetwork.org.
  ...
  A quick tour: The FAQ (frequently asked questions) segment of Narcolepsy Network helps put the disorder in context for recently diagnosed patients. This section addresses . More mundane but very important issues that concern narcoleptic patients also are addressed in this section, including .
  ...
  The site provides researchers information on obtaining grants, sponsored by the Narcolepsy Network, to study the disorder.
3. "Narcolepsy Network". Medicine on the Net. Vol. 19, no. 6. June 2013. pp. 10–11. ISSN 1085-3502.
  The abstract notes: "The article reviews the Web site of the nonprofit patient support group Narcolepsy Network, located www.narcolepsynetwork.org."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Narcolepsy Network to pass Knowledge:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 10:37, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep A Scholar search comes up with several citations in academic journals - just one example being Journal of Clinical Sleep Medicine. Together with the research provided by Cunard above, RS and notability seem to be no issue.--Concertmusic (talk) 16:01, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment: I'm willing to withdraw this AfD per notability being shown if Deathlibrarian agrees. SL93 (talk) 23:39, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, thanks SL93 - I found some more references - I've actually added some of them to the article and added some more details, as it was a bit scant. I just checked the Web Of Science Databases, and it gets 8 hits there, including a specific article discussing it, which I will add to the article. (The European Narcolepsy Network (EU-NN) database By: Khatami, Ramin; Luca, Gianina; Baumann, Christian R.; et al. Group Author(s): European Narcolepsy Network JOURNAL OF SLEEP RESEARCH Volume: ‏ 25 Issue: ‏ 3 Pages: ‏ 356-364 Published: ‏ JUN 2016). There's also plenty of hits in Google scholar. So yes, happy for you to withdraw the nomination. Deathlibrarian (talk) 12:12, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Withdraw SL93 (talk) 14:38, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:33, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Dave Bohman

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a coatrack of an article, but a local reporter who hasn't received any (as far as I can tell) meaningful in depth coverage. Merely interviewing notable subjects does not lend itself to notability and it doesn't appear he's won any awards that would qualify either. Praxidicae (talk) 18:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep Is he Dan Rather? No, but he's had a long career in broadcast journalism, as an anchorman and investigative reporter, and he's had coverage here and here and here and here. Plus he's a recipient of Emmy awards and Emmy nominations here and here and here and here and here and here and here and this award. He represented the news industry as a panelist here. Overall, he meets the general notability guideline.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep - I understand the nomination, but the Emmy nominations (even if they are regional Emmies) put him over the WP:GNG for me. Onel5969 18:06, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep There is no question for me about this article - which is almost ref-bombed, but certainly well supported - and the research above takes care of notability for me.--Concertmusic (talk) 22:42, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was redirect to Circus (Britney Spears album). Missvain (talk) 01:34, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Shattered Glass (Britney Spears song)

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This may be a WP:GA, but it does not pass WP:NSONG or WP:GNG. The song may have charted, but there is no evidence that it has received significant coverage from third-party, reliable sources. The current sourcing is almost entirely to album reviews, and while doing a WP:BEFORE, I could not find enough significant coverage on this specific song to support this having a separate article. Aoba47 (talk) 18:39, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

And before anyone points to the charts as a reason to keep the article, WP:NSONG clearly says that charts may indicate notability, but it puts more importance and emphasis on coverage (which the song does not have). Aoba47 (talk) 18:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep Seems to have enough coverage from reliable sources to be notable. Maybe not as well known as her other songs, but the article is well-sourced and has a critical commentary section. Oaktree b (talk) 20:59, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

@Oaktree b: Whether or not, this song is as "well known" as her others is not relevant to this discussion. Also, an article having a "critical reception" section does not make the subject notable on its own. The key here is whether or not the song has received significant coverage. WP:NSONG specifically states: "Coverage of a song in the context of an album review does not establish notability." All of the reviews about the song are from album reviews, and they do not count as significant coverage so this is not a strong keep argument. Aoba47 (talk) 21:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete Fails WP:NSONG. Chart positions do not equate notability, and from the references included, none are non-trivial sources that discuss this song in-depth. HĐ (talk) 09:42, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
~~Delete~~ Redirect to Circus (Britney Spears album) when there's no significant discussion in any credible sources that aren't album reviews, charts (or lack thereof) are entirely moot, and this shouldn't have been promoted to GA in the first place. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 05:38, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Redirect to Circus (Britney Spears album): Barely found any independent coverage about the song. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 16:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Redirect to Circus (Britney Spears album), as it clearly doesn't pass WP:NSONGS. Onel5969 18:07, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Based on the other articles about her songs that I reviewed, I would think that there are enough sources to improve this article. I would like to see it kept and worked on rather than deleted or merged, as I think some good detailed information will be lost by a merge.--Concertmusic (talk) 22:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

@Concertmusic: If you can find evidence that this song has received significant coverage from reliable, third-party sources (outside album reviews), then please either list those sources here or incorporate them into the article. Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was merge to Kjelsås Station. Missvain (talk) 01:35, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Kjelsås tram stop

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tram stop at a railway station. Not WP:notable noq (talk) 18:11, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete no mentions of notability, google does not show any notability Jeepday (talk) 18:37, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge to Kjelsås Station While the tram stop isn't part of the station itself (200m away), it has the same name and both articles refer to each other so it seems a valid target Jumpytoo Talk 21:06, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
I think most (not all) tram stops should be merged to nearby features, including this. Geschichte (talk) 11:11, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge selectively as suggested. Bearian (talk) 20:23, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge to Kjelsås Station in support of the above suggestion.--Concertmusic (talk) 22:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:35, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Candysuck

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Not notable GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 18:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Non-notable band. The article is sourced solely to Discogs and Musicbrainz, which are not reliable. During a Google search I haven't found anything reliable, only databases, youtube videos, streaming links, trivial mentions/name checks (there are lots of those), and some blogs. No reliable sources are available, therefore I think the band is not notable. The sourcing isn't better on the Swedish Wiki either. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 18:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete Non notable. Does not meet musician notability guidelines.Peter303x (talk) 22:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - per nom . No evidence of Notability Samat lib (talk) 19:51, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Kolma8 (talk) 22:40, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - Meets neither WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. Onel5969 18:08, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:35, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Diandra Newlin

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Non notable actress & singer, Her IMDB page indicates she's only been in one bit non-notable shows/films, No charting singles either, Fails NACTOR, NSINGER and GNG, Thanks, –Davey2010 17:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - lacks notability. The article was created by to editors who ONLY contributed to this article. Likely a promotional or fun-based article. Kolma8 (talk) 18:03, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete agree with nominator. Non notable and doesn't meet music notability guidelines.Peter303x (talk) 22:19, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete per nom and Kolma8, but especially per Kolma8. Btw, I was wondering whether the other wiki entries has been written by the one who wrote this, since they all cite the enwiki article as a source, as well as databases. The sourcing is incredibly crappy on the other wikis too. So there is no evidence of notability. Also, most of the article creator's edits revolve around her article, so there's COI involved as well. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 13:57, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Promotional, no notability, and the article’s creator either has a close connection or is the subject herself. Trillfendi (talk) 22:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete unfortunately as at this point she only has had minor or short roles and very little released music corresponding with a lack of coverage not passing WP:NACTOR imv Atlantic306 (talk) 00:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:SNOW. How is a model like this notable? Bearian (talk) 20:25, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - fails notability. Only voting due to being shocked this isn't closed yet. Onel5969 00:14, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Carmen Ferrer

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL; I can find no evidence of a senior football career. All coverage, and there isn't much available, relates to her youth career . Spiderone 17:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 17:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. Number 5 7 21:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Nerve Engine

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Non-notable band! GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 17:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Non-notable band. The article does not have any sources, just external links like bandcamp and facebook which do not establish notability. During a Google search I couldn't find anything besides the aforementioned pages and the Wiki article, as well as local media. It seems like they were noticed by Leeds newspapers, but that's not independent since the band hails from Leeds. So there are no independent, reliable sources. Connected to Lifescreen, which at the moment is up to Afd as well, and they doesn't seem notable either. While the original creator of the article is not a COI editor, Andy.lifescreen certainly is, as indicated by his name and the fact that 98% of his Knowledge activity revolved around the pages of these two bands. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 17:08, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom - no sources; no evidence of notability. Kolma8 (talk) 18:05, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. They would have a place on a specialist Fandom site, but not here. RobinCarmody (talk) 21:08, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete agree with nominator. Non notable and doesn't meet music notability guidelines. Peter303x (talk) 22:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete. Couldn't find anything apart from social media, event listings and the occasional mention in the local newspaper. no sources that would demonstrate notability. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 00:14, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Note reliable local newspapers are acceptable independent sources for use on Knowledge such as bands but they count less for notability than national sources, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 00:33, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Area 404

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Does not appear to be notable, fails WP:GNG. The venue opened on 2 November 2019 and the article was created just four months later. Search on Google shows that the venue has not received significant coverage in the media or other independent sources since then. The content is based on a few sources which are mostly blog entries, press releases and event announcements on Facebook by the operators of the venue. For this reason the article may also qualify for WP:SPAM. Rio65trio (talk) 17:04, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom. Kolma8 (talk) 18:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - blog entries and social media posts do not amount to passing WP:GNG Spiderone 11:32, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per excellent reasoning by nom and Spiderone. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 08:45, 11 December 2020 (UTC).
Delete per nom, the article seems promotional/spam to me. Alexcalamaro (talk) 05:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 09:12, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

List of bars, restaurants and venues closed due to the COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto

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Places go bankrupt, people die, things change. The overall impact of these things is important, but a list which is basically a memorial, but then for small businesses, is WP:NOT really an appropriate subject for an article. Added to that, the sourcing is dreadful; the first source I randomly clicked is , a promo piece about a new restaurant. Other sources include a blog listing some closed places, but not discussing Covid (places closed before Covid happened, so while obviously many recent closures will be related, some places would have closed anyway, and including them all in a "due to Covid" list should not include poor sources which don't support the claim). According to one source, in September a lot more places opened than closed actually. Fram (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment I'll simply just comment as the creator of this page. This is information brought over from the COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto page for the sake of brevity. I understand your comments on restaurants in particular being a high-risk business venture, however there is evidence by and large of large-scale closures due to the pandemic. I'll try to do some better sourcing in the meantime. If the article is deemed not notable, the information will just be re-entered back into the main article. CaffeinAddict (talk) 17:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Speedy delete Thousands and thousands of venues closed all around the world this year – both because of the pandemic and for unrelated reasons – and it is not encyclopedically notable to list them all. This should have never been in the main article in the first place either. Reywas92 20:34, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Comment Could perhaps be incorporated into the main article about the pandemic in the city, with the more notable closings, not a listing of each and every one... Most are places you'll never hear about in a few years. Oaktree b (talk) 21:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Response I'm starting to feel this is the appropriate action, I've started a mockup for the section in my sandbox for a description of the general impact, an aggregate (approximate) number of closures and a short, small list of notable establishments instead of a long list. CaffeinAddict (talk) 18:13, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

- I think the nonnotable closings should only be reported in the aggregate (how many Toronto restaurants closed as of date X, etc.), if any reliable sources have compiled those numbers. postdlf (talk) 00:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: As per nominator.--UserNL2020 (talk) 03:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Fails WP:N and WP:NOTNEWS. Accesscrawl (talk) 16:18, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: Fails WP:LISTN does not have WP:SIGCOV in WP:RS discussing this as a group, there is no potential for this quality under CLN/AOAL. // Timothy :: talk 19:14, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - given the number of venues that have had to close due to this pandemic, I don't see it being a notable distinction among venues. This has no value in a general encyclopaedia. Spiderone 19:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete, the list is surely incomplete, and most of the establishments were not notable. I agree with the suggestion that a few notable places could be mentioned in the main article, along with an estimate of the total number, if such a number can be reliably sourced. PK T(alk) 17:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:LISTN and WP:NOTNEWS. A lot of businesses don't survive, it's a fact of life. Ajf773 (talk) 01:11, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Dean Lawrence

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL; played mostly in the second tier of Irish football and did not receive significant coverage. There is evidence from Soccerway and GSA that his career practically stopped after Kildare folded. Searching for coverage, I found nothing on Google when searching for his name in connection with the clubs that he played for. On ProQuest, the only hit was a match report. Spiderone 16:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 17:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. Number 5 7 21:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Saltflow

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This article is for a defunct venture capital company. The refs on the article are dead and a google search hasn't returned anything to establish notability. This link says they had 3 employees. Desertarun (talk) 16:14, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete: The information on the page doesn't meet the notability guidelines. The information on the page itself seems to be copied from a non-reputable source. ~RAM (talk) 18:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete They were around for nine years and only have 4 lines mentioned in their article. No other language wiki has an article about them and the sources used are not much.... Oaktree b (talk) 21:05, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete No evidence of notability, that the business ever (or continues to) existed or that its principals are involved in trade or investment. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 03:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: A Google news search finds two articles about the subject and fashion to fiber. One of which is a routine acquisition announcement and fails WP:ORGIND.Ruqayya ansari (talk) 13:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:MILL, WP:NORG, and WP:OUTCOMES. We've deleted articles about funds worth up to $1B. Bearian (talk) 20:27, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. czar 17:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

No Mirage, California

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Looks like more WP:GNIS-type stuff. The GNIS entry says that the coordinates are unknown; the entry is sourced to an old postcard. Can't search topos if I don't know where to look. Google books isn't bringing up anything useful. When I searched newspapers.com, refining to Imperial County, I just got hits about desert mirages. When I expanded it to the whole state, I got hits for desert mirages and Rancho Mirage, California. No indication that WP:GEOLAND is met, and WP:GNG is not, either. Hog Farm _Bacon 15:57, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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delete I found two hits that associate the place name with Ocotillo, which is in the right county. Neither of them describes it, and my impression from the one is that it may have been a failed real estate development. At any rate being able to do no more than verify that it probably was a place name is a bald failure to meet WP:GNG. Mangoe (talk) 17:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: per nom, fails GNG and NGEO. Imperial County historically has been filled with tiny temporary spontanious communities. // Timothy :: talk 16:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:37, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Kamecki coat of arms

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Empty article. This 13 year old article has neither an image nor a description of the coat of arms (the actual topic!), all three sections are empty. Fram (talk) 15:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - coats of arms are not inherently notable and there's certainly no evidence of notability here Spiderone 11:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete There is no information to support notability. Duncan079 (talk) 16:40, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Redirect to Armorial_of_Polish_nobility#K. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- That makes no sense? It just lists the name without any comment, and that name redirects to this article... It won't inform readers at all if they are redirected there, the redirect doesn't seem to serve any purpose. Fram (talk) 10:17, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:GNG - an empty, unsourced stub. Bearian (talk) 20:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. czar 17:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Trevor Bowers

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This article has been here for a very long time but I think that it fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. I've checked GSA and Soccerway and neither of them record an appearance for any club other than Kildare in the 2nd tier of Irish football. There is this source that could be used to add to the article but he's still way short of GNG. Searching ProQuest gives us this but it's the Mail on Sunday... Spiderone 15:36, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 16:14, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. Number 5 7 21:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. czar 17:10, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Dr Morvarid Homayoun

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Does not appear to be notable, fails WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO. Unsourced and can't find any sources on Google. Pahunkat (talk) 15:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - searching the ~~Cypriot~~ Greek version of her name returned zero results. No evidence of passing WP:ANYBIO, WP:NACTOR, WP:NARTIST, WP:BASIC etc. Spiderone 15:42, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: I see two references and , both of which are primary failing WP:GNG.Faizal batliwala (talk) 15:46, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete No references found, not notable. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 15:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete As no notability is available Garnarblarnar (talk) 21:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Nothing to suggest notability. Could have been speedied, if you ask me. (Speaking of which, why is there a speedy and AfD running in parallel?) --DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:37, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Impeachment resolution against Gretchen Whitmer

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Not a notable event. There is no "resolution" in any legal sense. Pointless and inflammatory.
Three (of 158) rogue legislators angling for press attention. Thousands of bills are introduced each session. Many/most do not become enrolled, nor sent to a committee. This has not even made "first reading". In this case, as reported, the leaders of the legislature have called this submission "shameful", and have repeatedly adjourned the legislature without calendaring. All of the reliable sources note it is dead on arrival.
This article has been renamed repeatedly (originally was variants of "Impeachment Hearings"), as there have been no hearings. Knowledge is NOT a soapbox, a scandal sheet, or an indiscriminate collection of information.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom. It barely qualifies as news, let alone something an encyclopedia should note... Caro7200 (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - At the time of the article's creation, I was in support of it. But now that the media hype has died down, not so much. I'll be singing a different tune if impeachment efforts actually go somewhere, but until then, this is not encyclopedic. Let it be known that the user who created the article, Elijahandskip, also created a similar article, Impeachment resolution against Mike DeWine, which has since been marked for merging. Love of Corey (talk) 10:32, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete/Merge {Article Creator} per discussions that happened for the AfD Impeachment resolution against Mike DeWine. There isn't really anything to actually merge, but just thinking about a deletion being a blow to notability for the information already listed on Gretchen Whitmer. Elijahandskip (talk) 11:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
- On the contrary, there's nothing to merge. It will be removed entirely from the Whitmer article. We don't include unsubstantiated inflammatory material anywhere, especially not in WP:BLP. As already written above, it barely qualified as news. As written in the Talk there, "This is starting to feel disruptive." (Fixed link to DeWine AfD.)
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 01:49, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  - William Allen Simpson That I would argue against that completely. Yes it went no where, but since US governors don't have impeachment articles drawn up against them often (Last governor to be impeached was 2009), it is notable enough for a mention. I would be ok removed the subsection, but mentions about it are notable. The same thing is on Mike DeWine. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:09, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
    - As noted above, Elijahandskip was the originator of the Dewine article as well, and it was deleted at AfD 3 times! Please don't condescend to me with an apparently rudimentary level knowledge of civics. I'm fairly aware of the legislative process. More than 30 years ago, I was a senior legislative analyst for the Michigan House Fiscal Agency, contracted to do engineering review for the House Computer and Telecommunications Oversight Committee. I'm also rather proud of having authored the legislative language for building the Internet as we know it (then called the NSFnet). While there are so-called "Articles", they were not reported out of any committee. There is no "Resolution", because it has not been resolved by any legislature. These words have legal meaning, and this stunt has had no legal effect.
      William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:26, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
      - Also note that on the last Afd, it was clear consensus to merge. Also the merge idea was not started by me. The Afd clearly said the DeWine stuff was notable enough...hence Senate Bill 311. Just for the record, that the topic for the impeachment resolution against DeWine was deemed notable for Knowledge, just not as a stand-alone article. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:38, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
        I disagree that the impeachment story should be removed from the Whitmer article in its entirety. As Elijahandskip said, impeachment efforts against governors don't come along often in U.S. history. It should warrant some sort of mention. Love of Corey (talk) 02:39, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
        No, this is not notable. Also, there is nothing in any of the 3 Dewine AfDs deeming it notable. A majority of the Delete !votes there specifically state it was not notable. The only reason for a merge there is because Elijahandskip agreed to a speedy merge, out of process, after 2 previous deletions.
        William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:48, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
        William Allen Simpson what "Deleted comments" say that is isn't notable. Every single comment except the actual Afd nominator (original reasons for Afd) talk about the impeachment resolution for Mike DeWine#Impeachment resolution. The original Afd nominator also agreed to keep it in Mike DeWines article. There actually was a very large consensus for the merge. (Also, the Afd reasons were all fixed. Notability was deemed at that Afd, otherwise the merge, again not started by me, wouldn't have happened. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
        "Delete !votes" are not "Deleted comments". Notability was not "deemed at the AfD". The !votes agreed to merge without redirect, "rather than spending a week at AFD." I'm opposed to a merge here.
        William Allen Simpson (talk) 03:05, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
        Meant delete comments. My badElijahandskip (talk) 03:07, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Per discussion above, it seems fair to ping editors involved in the Mike DeWine discussion. Any objections? Elijahandskip (talk) 03:07, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Pinging Relevant users as discussion is involving a previous Afd: Valereee, Levivich, Twassman, Pawnkingthree. I am also pinging the admin who completed the merge; Missvain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elijahandskip (talk • contribs)
- I didn't receive a notice about "Mentions being sent". Not sure if pings worked. Going to wait a while and hope they received it. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Just found out about this. Knowledge:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Mike DeWine. Wondering if William Allen Simpson is taking this too far. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:31, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete/Merge - We already went through this kinda thing, with Ohio governor Mike DeWine. Just add the attempt into the Whitmer article. See how it's done at the DeWine article, for example. GoodDay (talk) 15:53, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete unless it goes to a point when we have an actual recall election, this will not be notable. I am not even convinced if we got to the point of a recall election it would be notable enough to justify a separate article, but it clearly is not at this time.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Anica Plećić

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This article was created by a user whose only contributions were all related to this article. Notability is asserted by claiming that she has multiple caps for Serbia but this is not verified by the sources given. This interview makes no mention of any cap and this video is clearly of a club match not an international fixture. I have checked Soccerway, which says she was on the bench four times but never played and World Football and Sport.de have no record of any cap on her profile. In terms of WP:GNG, I found a few hits for her name in a Serbian search relating to futsal but nothing discussing her in depth. Spiderone 13:38, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 14:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. Happy to change my !vote if proof that she played for the senior Serbian national team can be produced. Number 5 7 21:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. czar 17:06, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Michel Lafrance

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Fails WP:BASIC; unable to locate any significant biographical details in secondary sources. Also fails WP:ANYBIO; the Prime Minister's Awards for Teaching Excellence has been given to 1,500 people in the past 27 years. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete While existing sources may be considered secondary they are not independent. They all appear to be a biography page provided by the subject. Searching found little for this Michel Lafrance. There are numerous newspaper mentions of a Michel Lafrance, police spokesman. Fails both GNG & Anybio due to lack of significant coverage by multiple independent reliable sources. Happy to reconsider if better sources are identified. Gab4gab (talk) 12:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete He's basically a high school principal at a fancy school in Quebec. Oaktree b (talk) 21:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was deleted as G5. (non-admin closure) — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 13:33, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Asad Ali Palijo

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Fails GNG, WP:NACTOR. CSD tag removed by page creator, who also tried to create a redirect while keeping the page, so here we are off to AfD! Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:40, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete, clearly does not meet either WP:GNG or WP:NACTOR. Onel5969 12:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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This is the long-term spammer Knowledge:Sockpuppet investigations/Asad Ali Palijo. – Thjarkur (talk) 14:13, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:39, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Udo Schaefer

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Fails WP:BASIC thus WP:AUTHOR Serv181920 (talk) 10:37, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - Cuñado ☼ - Talk 20:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

The article is a terrible substub but the author seems to be notable enough for a keep, after looking at the German Knowledge article. This is a list of reviews of books by Schaefer, who appears to have been one of the foremost Baha'i scholars in Germany. —Kusma (t·c) 11:01, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Kusma, Except for one or two, all of his articles seems to have been published in the Baha'i journals. According to WP:BIO "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject."Serv181920 (talk) 09:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep Based on the google translation of the German wikipedia page, the subject seems to easily meet WP:BASIC thus WP:AUTHOR Yes the article needs improvement, but the subject is notable. Jeepday (talk) 18:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep per the research and comments above.--Concertmusic (talk) 23:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. czar 17:05, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Mildred Mottahedeh

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Fails WP:BASIC Serv181920 (talk) 10:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Comment Hints of notability if her work was catalogued, but the article doesn't really give much in that department. Her Bahai faith is neither here nor there. Oaktree b (talk) 21:11, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete only 2 sources. Did a google/ news search and found only one more source, but still Non notable. Peter303x (talk) 22:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Weak Delete Reading that obituary, one would assume there would be more sources, but I couldn't find any either. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 22:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep. A full-length obituary in the New York Times plus two volumes of catalogue of her ceramic collection ("one of the world's finest private collections" according to the NYT) is enough. Additionally, in the bibliography, there are multiple further sources some of which look reliable, including a brief mention in an encyclopedia , another obituary , another mention in a research paper which calls her "a prominent American" and a newspaper article . She retired in 1998, so many sources about her may not be readily accessible online. Espresso Addict (talk) 09:56, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete. Sources do not add up to anything substantial. Xxanthippe (talk) 10:32, 13 December 2020 (UTC).
Keep -- In addition to the sources identified by Espresso Addict, newspapers.com reveals several features (, , ). When all the sources are summed up, I think there's certainly enough to meet GNG -- Eddie891 _Work 20:04, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep, just needing integrating of sources. Smkolins (talk) 21:01, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep She appears to be extremely notable, with full length news pieces covering her from around the country across decades. Silver seren 21:42, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep An increase in sources, which clearly demonstrate her notability both as a collector, a faith representative and a businesswoman Lajmmoore (talk) 09:31, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep per Espresso Addict. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:43, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Now a very obvious Keep, as expanded since the nom. Johnbod (talk) 15:56, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:14, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Blunt, California

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Blunt started out as a siding, and it's still a passing siding today, and all evidence is that a siding is all that it ever was. Mangoe (talk) 01:02, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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~~Keep~~ Delete No Post Office, nothing to suggest any historical significance. Railroad siding is much to warrant an article. JayJay

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SMB9 9thx my edits! 09:50, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete - No real Newspapers.com hits and the only source other than GNIS cited in the article states that "Blunt appears on several maps (e.g. the Harry Freese Map of Tehama County); however, it appears to be nothing more than a siding and a switch station on the Southern Pacific Railroad". It's possible that people did live there but nothing conclusive, and per WP:GEOLAND we need to pass WP:GNG for a community like this. FOARP (talk) 14:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - fails GNG and more than likely fails GEOLAND Spiderone 10:08, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was no consensus. – bradv🍁 07:03, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Imperial Guard (comics)

AfDs for this article:

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This has been deleted few months ago but now restored. It seems slightly improved, but IMHO, not enough to meet WP:NFICTION/GNG. We now have a section on 'concept and creation' sourced primarily to a WP:INTERVIEW (and a low-reliablility two paragraph website here) and reception based on a single sentence (passing mention as defined by GNG). Time to discuss it here again, I am afraid. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:51, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

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Keep based on significant improvements to the article to meet the WP:GNG, or failing that merge to Shi'ar per WP:ATD and WP:PRESERVE. BOZ (talk) 05:31, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep The nomination is based on WP:NFICTION but that is an essay and "Essays have no official status, and do not speak for the Knowledge community". What's wanted is policy and most applicable is WP:ATD which states "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page." The page is already quite good but improvement is still feasible as I have just done so. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:50, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Delete - Going through and attaching junk CBR links to plot material does not help satisfy GNG. This still lacks actual significant coverage. TTN (talk) 12:04, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Delete - As was the case less than a year ago when it was deleted at AFD before, there just are not enough non-plot summaries in reliable, third party sources to pass the WP:GNG. I'd almost venture to say this current iteration of the article is even worse than the one that was deleted already, as it appears to be even more filled with in-universe plot summaries than the old article. As mentioned multiple times in the previous AFD, this group is already covered in the main Shi'ar article, which is the broader topic, and is not independently notable enough that it would require a split from that. Rorshacma (talk) 17:29, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
It's obvious my stance is still Keep. If not then merge/redirect is still a better option. Too much good info to just wipe it out completely. Jhenderson 12:54, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep — If nothing else, the article establishes that the original members of the team were a pastiche of the principal members of DC's Legion of Super-Heroes. The fact that the Imperial Guard has been featured in so many stories over the years — including their own limited series — is a testament to their notability. (As is the fact that so many CBR and Looper articles have been written about them. It is my understanding that both CBR and Looper are considered verifiable third-party sources...) In addition, they were key participants in The Dark Phoenix Saga storyline, which in many people's eyes establish the notability of the X-Men franchise. Finally, deleting and redirecting the article to Shi'ar would not solve the issue that the vast majority of the members of the Imperial Guard (Superguardians) are not Shi'ar. Maybe the best solution would be to drastically cut the offending in-universe plot summaries? -- stoshmaster (talk) 15:33, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Not even taking into account that CBR is a trash website in its current form, these are not significant coverage as desired by WP:GNG. They don't even belong in the article. TTN (talk) 17:14, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Still no reason to wipe an article info and revisions out completely. If you feel the article is deleted. Then you did your part and vote delete. I don’t think we need to see critical evaluations of sources that may not be all sources of the group.That just reeks of desperation of Knowledge cleanup. Jhenderson 17:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

If 99% of the sources are primary or trash, that means the article is not suitable for Knowledge. It seems there was a limited comic book series on the topic, so the best bet would be to see if there are any sources to establish notability for that. An article on the comic book could allow some retention of fictional details for context, though definitely not the full scope of this current article. TTN (talk) 17:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

What does Knowledge say about "trash" sources? Or is the opinion that CBR is trash your own? Why do you preach of what Knowledge should be is your own? That seems a bit too passionate. I am aware of guidelines and essays you normally point to half the time. Though it seems that you probably miscontrue them sometimes for your own wants. Jhenderson 17:56, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Sources are junk if A. They fail to provide significant coverage on the topic. B. If they are of an unreliable nature from an otherwise reliable site (opinion pieces, listicles, etc) C. They are from an unreliable source. All these sources fail A and/or B. CBR's listcles are outright unreliable, and, being a clickbait factory after their 2016 rebrand, their status is certainly suspect. TTN (talk) 18:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

If Knowledge didn’t say that. And it's just your opinion. Then agree to disagree. You are not the voice of Knowledge. I agree they say useless in-universe info now that can’t benefit here as much. Them and Screen Rant. Pop-culture sites have died a long time ago so much so that it’s hard to prove that many major superheroes and superhero teams (such as Deadman and Animal Man) is notable until the character gets a live-action adaptation. Then the really "reliable sources" act like they weren’t notable before like bogus lines like "Who is Adam Strange from Krypton, Mister Mind from Shazam etc.) Though common sense prevails that they are indeed a major character from a major franchise anyway. I will check if a preferred sources like Newsarama (which used to exist) and IGN has something. Jhenderson 18:40, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

WP:SIGCOV and listicles being unreliable are not my singular opinion. CBR being a trashheap is my analysis of the site, but I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. Regardless of their status as reliable or not, it is absolutely certain that almost nothing in this article provides significant coverage. TTN (talk) 18:58, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

It’s a now in-universal ok (while used to be good) pop-culture news source. But it still checks out! (Ahem! Excuse my Return of the Jedi reference). At least in my subjective mind. Jhenderson 19:06, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Listicles are the only thing fictional characters have. Practically no video game character article would be considered notable without creator interviews for creation and conception and lists of greatest X characters (with explanation) unless they had their own adaptation like I already explained. Sorry to disappoint but these people in that discussion is short and too few of a convo to considered official. Keep in mind all of the "reliable sources" are taking about COVID-19 and political stuff at the moment. Recent sources are not a way to determine notability now. Also pop-culture (the other thing you would mention) is not warranted. Not everyone is a Spider-Man or Darth Vader now. The closest example of that currently is The Child thanks to internet memes. Jhenderson 19:26, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

The threshold for sources doesn't just magically lower because a topic gets less mainstream coverage. That simply means the topic is not notable. Simply being a specialty site doesn't make a source bad. It's when it becomes a hell of clickbait with zero editorial standards. And even if the source is otherwise notable, it doesn't mean anything if the article does not provide significant coverage. Listicles are peak clickbait no matter the website, so they're never going to be useful to anything. Feel free to do another Knowledge:Reliable sources/Noticeboard discussion for alternate opinions, but I feel it'll be nearly unanimous every time. TTN (talk) 19:47, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I can promise you they surely can diminish or undiminish...because of comic book continuity....there can always be an early Blue Beetle and Hop Harrigan (who was notable in the 1940's newspapers) but not now and also be another Guardians of the Galaxy (which was not notable before MCU) which is notable now. There is a reason why we have our own guidelines on comic book characters and we are not always relying on an essay on fiction or a guideline on real life. Jhenderson 20:18, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Keep - Let this page stay. As mentioned above, the recreated article has been an improvement of the one that was previously deleted. I also support the suggestions of @BOZ:, @Andrew Davidson:, @Jhenderson777:, and @Stoshmaster:. --Rtkat3 (talk) 16:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Delete - doesn't come close to passing WP:GNG.Onel5969 23:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
- WP:IGNORINGATD. Jhenderson 23:38, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Delete Per TTN, fails WP:GNG, sources are WP:TRIVIAL mentions._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 23:50, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
- I can’t tell you how many times I am reading Knowledge (or even Wikimedia) guidelines and they say they should avoid deleting when you can. Instead the same editors keep voting delete because they clearly want to see it deleted. They say it’s GNG. Though it seems more like a bandwagon excuse to team up. Though not all these editors I assume are like that. I feel Rorschama wouldn’t be that way and would vote sometimes the alternative. Though it’s obvious this is a bandwagon of the same kind of vote with no plan to change their vote. I get that the keep editors that are voting is doing arguments to avoid. Especially one editor off the top of my head needs a better argument. Though like I said Wikimedia is not about material deletion cleanup. It clearly is saying you do likewise. I feel that is what Jimmy Wales wants it that way too. Also "Per X" WAS an argument to avoid (until removed) and so is still is "per guideline / essay". Jhenderson 00:24, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
  - I am anything but a "bandwagon" voter so please stop casting aspersions without evidence and WP:BLUDGEONing. I've voted keep on articles like Danger Room or Hill Valley (Back to the Future) because I legitimately believed they were notable and said articles were kept. There is such a thing as an eminently notable article on fictional subjects, many of which I've written myself. And then there is just plain cruft that fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE and of which all sources are just WP:ALLPLOT summaries._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 06:06, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    - Fair enough. You vote Keep sometimes. No hard feelings then. You used common sense on those articles. (Who in the world would AFD the danger room anyway?)And I think on Themiscyria you voted keep too. It’s just that you and TTN sure do magically agree a lot. It happens though. Jhenderson 12:24, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
      - In any case, discouraging any type of voting in AfD by constantly arguing against it, is actually detrimental to Knowledge. It lowers the odds people will participate in AfD and leads to a lower article standard in Knowledge overall. I'd try to refrain from being argumentative unless there is something well and truly wrong with their logic._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 02:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
        My two opinions on that. Tell that to TTN who replies to keep voters constantly or finally realize that I (and TTN) am not really arguing but debating civilly. Jhenderson 02:20, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
        It goes both ways, so I don't necessarily agree with TTN's behavior either. If a keep vote is very clearly WP:JUSTAVOTE then I leave it for the admin to throw out rather than getting into an argument. It's not like the !voter will see much success in any AfD if they continue to vote like that. I usually only reply when there is something that wouldn't be obvious unless refuted._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 01:01, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep per WP:HEY; the article is better than it was in the previous nomination. Complaining that a perfectly adequate published RS is an "interview" shows that the nom/delete voters really just want another notch on their belt. — Toughpigs (talk) 02:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep. This article for Marvel Comics' Imperial Guard appears to be covered under WP:NList, and the standards of GNG I believe ~~do not~~ apply differently to list articles of fictional characters. Listicles from reliable sources that discuss the Imperial Guard collectively are appropriate and adequate sources to support such an article, as the entirety of such a list does not need to be documented in sources for notability. Aside from one editor who almost always favor deletionism for all articles on fictional works and topics for more then a decade, there is no established consensus within the wider Knowledge community that Comic Book Resources is not a reliable source, and at the time of writing it is still listed as a reliable source under WP:CMC/REF. Furthermore, WP:NCOMIC proposes that a character or team is presumed to warrant a solo article if they meet one or more of the following criteria:
- Have had, at any point in time, a solo comic book series longer than a one-shot.
- Featured prominently in an animated/live-action series or movie of a comic book property (e.g. not a cameo).
- Covered in a more than trivial manner in a published secondary source (WP:GNG).
The Imperial Guard characters have starred in their own limited series, a sub-series of the War of Kings crossover event as well as the Realm of Kings comic event series eponymously titled Imperial Guard, for your reference. Reviews for their 1997 limited series as well as Realm of Kings: Imperial Guard most certainly exist and could be cited to demonstrate the reliability of the topic characters as a collective. Merging or redirecting it to Shi'ar is not appropriate in my view, because that article is also reliant on primary sources, which editors who draw a hardline on GNG standards will have a problem with and will likely not survive an AfD if majority consensus is from deletionist-inclined editors. I also support Toughpigs' argument based on WP:HEY. Also Jhenderson777, from experience, your assertion that fictional characters only have listicles as sources aren't true, though list articles that discuss a group as a whole supports the existence of a list article on Knowledge. Haleth (talk) 08:07, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- I am well aware that listicles aren’t the only thing that have reception. But they used to be a saving grace for them in the past. But there is nothing wrong with them helping when they have info reasoning based on their reasoning is all I am trying to say. I already get WhatCulture and WatchMojo aren’t considered reliable too so I know the negativity of them. Jhenderson 12:24, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- This is an article that has a list in it. It does not follow LISTN. "List of Imperial Guard Members" would be a list. NCOMIC is MOS with a suggestion on when an article may be notable, but it does not determine notability. It's honestly really bad criteria. Listicles are not reliable, full stop. TTN (talk) 13:24, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, it's an essay that's not even part of the MOS, so it's even more useless of a suggestion. TTN (talk) 13:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
  - Not sure you are talking to me or Haleth. But I still stand my opinion that IGN and Empire having a top whatever is notable. When it’s a major source like that at least. Obviously CBR is not that example. I never went as far as saying it was. Jhenderson 13:35, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
  - You just pointed to a discussion page like it was an official guideline and you are complaining about an essay? Jhenderson 13:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    - The noticeboard is for the purpose of determining community consensus on the status of reliable/unreliable sources. TTN (talk) 14:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
      - Ok three vague opinions. And no opinion that lists can provide useful commentary or be notable notable enough on its own. Although that isn’t the point. The point is that is an essay is just as reliable source for advice than what you pointed at. Jhenderson 14:41, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
      - Which only received comments of opinions from exactly, two other users. The outcome of that discussion is an echo chamber that is about as useful as my little "consensus" with two other users in a discussion for a proposed merge for the Paper Mario character Vivian. It is WP:Localconsensus that is not supported by guidelines or policy, and it cannot supersede them either. There is currently no specific guideline or policy on notability for fictional characters or topics, only WP:GNG applies, full stop. I've seen you and a few other users quoting essays which propose a solution that aligns with your views during discussions, so it's only fair that I've quoted a longstanding essay which suggests a guideline on notability for comic book, and I don't expect you to agree. I suggest you or Piotr stop quoting that stalled RSN discussion in almost every single AfD debate as if it's policy or guideline that editors are compelled to follow. Your opinions are exactly that, your own. Otherwise, get a RfC organized on this issue, once and for all.
      - As for your assertion that it isn't a list article because it is not titled "List of Imperial Guard characters", that is just semantics. I've seen several other "Characters of XXX" which are classified as "list class" even though they don't start with "List of xxx characters". The current organization of the article's content is dominated by a listing of the organization's members, and is for all intents and purposes, a list. The article can be rewritten to comply with the MOS of a list article. That would be an appropriate measure as clean up, not deletion. Haleth (talk) 17:10, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
        Discussion on a common noticeboard in which many users from various areas browse is not the same as consensus on a singular article talk page. I also referenced three other discussions in which something was deemed unreliable due to them being listicle factories. Even if that does not inherently blacklist sites as a whole, it is clearly a consensus that listicles as a whole are not reliable. That also doesn't really help the fact that none of the CBR articles cited talk about the topic anyway. I haven't personally quoted WP:FICT or essays myself in years from what I can recall, but that's ultimately just a summarization of WP:WAF, WP:NOTPLOT, and WP:GNG in how they relate to fiction. The comic one fails to account for WP:GNG, so it's absolutely useless. This is not "Characters of X" or rated as a List-class article by the project, so it is literally not a list article. Lists can have a bit of non-list context, but the bulk of this article clearly is clearly non-list prose. TTN (talk) 20:34, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
        It certainly has the same consensus as that of a singular article talk page since it lacks the explicit support of the broader community, when only two editors and no one else bothered to weight in, astounding when even you acknowledged that more readers are supposed to browse that noticeboard. At least Masem's opinion was helpful, where he specifically said that "Lists that simply give lists but do not give more than a brief description of why stuff is on the list" are the useless ones. Again, only a consensus established through RfC is worth deferring to, and consensus is mutable. So, your claim that there is tacit agreement is not supported by Knowledge policy or guideline on level of consensus. The three discussions you linked were about the reliability of specific sources which have been brought up. Like any other article or editorial, there are good listicles, and bad ones. Even professional journalist sources which are widely considered reliable like The Guardian and IGN have published listicles, and there is a noticeable gap in quality if compared to the ones published by enthusiast websites like Whatculture or Watchmojo, so if either website publish a page length editorial or 10 minute analysis video for a change instead of their daily listicles, it still won't change the fact that their reporting content and editorial oversight has been vetted to be unreliable or low quality within the same discussions you referred to. CBR I personally consider to be situational post-2016, for obvious reasons, but I have yet to see any community-wide consensus deprecating the source or vetting it as unreliable. The comic one fails to account for GNG? Read it again, it's listed as one of three suggested criteria, and I copy pasted it word for word. Haleth (talk) 01:32, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete or redirect Despite all the people showing up and casting their votes, none have thus far managed to add any substantial real-world information to this WP:ALLPLOT article. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:46, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge or Delete - I am surprised... Deletion is not supposed a vote, and arguments are supposed to be more substantial, and more policy grounded that: "this is a bit better than before and the concept is important in the comic universe". The encyclopedia-worthy content here is no more than a few sentences, and references are relatively weak. I see that the only possibility would be to merge those few sentences somewhere, but I am not sure where... - GizzyCatBella🍁 05:35, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Article and references have been vastly improved from what it was. WP:HEY. Meets WP:GNG. WP:Not paper. WP:Preserve. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 04:46, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: Article does not meet any notability guidelines. Sources in article and found in BEFORE are mentions, plot summaries, etc, nothing that meets WP:SIGCOV addressing the topic directly and indepth. // Timothy :: talk 23:50, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete. I read through the linked secondary sources and am not seeing which ones are meant to constitute significant coverage. I'm seeing no substance with which we can build a dedicated encyclopedia article. The article is longer than it was when it was deleted in January, yes, but is length is empty if it's built from every extant passing mention of the topic and bolstered by primary sources. For those who simply want to preserve the content, Shi'ar would make a good redirect target in which the little that is actually sourced can be appropriately covered, but as was said above, that article too lacks in-depth secondary source coverage. I'd be interested in other potential redirect targets but every other instance I've seen would bring no reader benefit—all brief mentions in a long list. (Maybe List of alien races in Marvel Comics § Shi'ar?) Hence deletion, per the last AfD. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 06:38, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Not all of the Imperial Guard members are Shi'ar. Some of them come from the other alien races that are in the Shi'ar Empire's jurisdiction. --Rtkat3 (talk) 20:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SMB9 9thx my edits! 09:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

KEEP — I've heavily edited the article to reduce the size of the in-universe plot summaries, and rebalanced citations by adding secondary sources and removing as many primary sources as I could. I still contend the article is notable because it establishes their relationship with the Legion of Super-Heroes, as well as showing their involvement with any number of other major Marvel storylines that are the subjects of multiple articles. Not to mention a redirect to Shi'ar would cause more problems, since the vast majority of the Imperial Guard are NOT in themselves members of the Shi'ar race. -- stoshmaster (talk) 20:09, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Reducing extraneous content can happen at any time, but sourcing issues are forever. czar 17:04, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Lol he did some add new sources apparently. I think he should have noted it. Jhenderson 18:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep Solid improvements made, and as I have argued in other Marvel comic AfDs - this is a small piece and part of a larger puzzle and should be considered not just on its own merit, which is enough in my mind, but as a part of a larger whole.--Concertmusic (talk) 23:30, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any improvements made. The entire article is still nothing but in-universe fanwiki-esque content even more than two weeks after the first keep !vote was cast in this discussion. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:43, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 09:08, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Lifescreen

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Unnotable band - couldn't find any significant coverage from reliable sources when I looked. No references, just a list of links to the band's social media and bandcamp pages. Article creator and main editor seem to have a connection with the band. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 09:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom. They would have a place on a specialist Fandom site, but not here. RobinCarmody (talk) 21:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Not notable, just like Nerve Engine. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 13:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Couldn't find any coverage of the band or their work. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 00:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was merge to Berniece Baker Miracle. czar 17:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Mona Rae Miracle

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Being the relative of a famous person does not itself provide notability. The subject has written some books but none of them seem to reach the level of WP:NBOOK or WP:NAUTHOR. Google search for "Mona Rae Miracle" brings up many sites where her books can be purchased, but no significant discussion of the author in multiple reliable sources. The article could be redirected to Berniece Baker Miracle, but I don't believe it can be sustained as-is. ... discospinster _talk 19:10, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete being the niece of a notable person does not make one notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:45, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

*Delete The references here don't seem to be discussing her notability - they are mostly works by her, or brief mentions, I gather.Deathlibrarian (talk) 02:01, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Merge to Berniece Baker Miracle - I agree with this suggestion, the material can be combined and there is a connection with that article already.Deathlibrarian (talk) 11:32, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:NOTINHERITED. Same applies to Berniece Baker Miracle, by the way, for the same reason. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:29, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete as per WP:NOTINHERITED. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 21:31, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Though I get the concerns, she has written the only authorised biography about Monroe and it received positive reviews. Only because there is not much information about her, she should not be said to be not notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thebiggangwiki (talk • contribs) 20:16, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge to Berniece Baker Miracle as her notability derives from their book. Not enough notability for a standalone article. StarM 01:27, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge to Berniece Baker Miracle I think is a good idea as well.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SMB9 9thx my edits! 09:21, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Merge to Berniece Baker Miracle, given that the page already briefly mentions her. Pahunkat (talk) 09:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge to Berniece Baker Miracle as they both wrote the book and this article does not have enough notability for standalone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allas5 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Merge to Berniece Baker Miracle because the book was written by them and it just makes sense, given she does not enough notability herself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John9912 (talk • contribs) 14:12, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. czar 17:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Dicle Ozcer

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I am a sysop on de:WP, and have concluded a lengthy AfD discussion on the German language version of the article (de:Dicle Ozcer) by deleting it. The reasons were lack of notability, self-promotion and false claims about pay-for-promotion "film festivals" being a significant form of recognition for Ozcer's short film, mostly student projects. The "festivals" are mostly promotion websites, to be paid for by the agency promoting a film, mostly conncted to a company called Freeway. Do not be fooled by these "festivals" having cities like Montreal or Vienna in the title, that are just labels stuck on websites, not to be confused with the real thing, e.g. Montreal World Film Festival or Vienna International Film Festival (Viennale). I noted that the account Gemalmaz responsible for uploading the photos and promoting the article in de:WP had also been active here, in en:WP. Hence my suggestion to consider the article for deletion as well. The notability criteria may well be different here, so there may be a different outcome as well. Note that there has been a A7/G11 request a couple of days ago. Thank you for your consideration. Minderbinder (talk) 08:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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The same user has written the corresponding article in the TR:WP. Bahnmoeller (talk) 20:25, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Pretty much anyone with a cell phone and a Tik Tok can make a short film. Oaktree b (talk) 21:13, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your feedback. I am trying to do my best for Knowledge and I improved the article again to ensure compliance to policies and guidelines.

I look forward your feedback and support. Regards--Gemalmaz 12:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete: This article is very suspicious of self-publishing and has extreme amounts of unnecessary information. Very possibly self-published, as there is information in this article that is no where to be found publicly, and the photo is published by the same named user as this article. There is only one good reference, therefore failing WP:GNG, and also fails to name the so-called "prestigious awards". Then again, this might be just simply be WP:TOOSOON, but for now, we need to keep in mind that Knowledge is an encyclopedia, and some short films just won't break it. Coreykai (talk) 18:50, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. czar 16:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Matt Duss

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Non-notable political staffer. All U.S. Senators have foreign policy advisors. This one is not especially notable KidAd talk 07:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete. As per the nomination - subject hasn't reached the level of notability required. Any mentions in sources are only that, they mention his name in the context of his work, as opposed to being about him. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 09:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 08:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Staley, California

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At present the location is home to a grain elevator operated by Winema Elevators, LLC; there's been some similar operation there for a very long time. When it comes down to it, though, it's a siding on the outskirts of Newell, and it always has been that. There are numerous photos of internees unloading coal here for the Tule Lake War Relocation Center, and none of them show more than the most rudimentary shelters. Possibly there is some merger outcome desirable, but this was not a community. Mangoe (talk) 06:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - For any community in the USA you would expect at least some Newspaper.com hits - even very small communities get some coverage, but this has none. The railways tended to name points along the line after the lcoal rance owner and this may have been an example. No evidence of population. FOARP (talk) 14:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete no claims of notability, nothing notable found. Jeepday (talk) 18:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - fails WP:GEOLAND and WP:GNG Spiderone 22:58, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - fails WP:GEOLAND and WP:GNG. // Timothy :: talk 08:39, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 08:40, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Widgeon, California

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It's fairly late where I am, so maybe I stayed up too late and missed something, but I'm not seeing a WP:GEOLAND pass here. Not on topos, no GNIS entry, not in Gudde. Newspapers.com hits are for birds, a railroad station in Kern County, and a gun club in Kern County. Google books hits are for birds. I'm just not seeing notability here, although maybe I missed something. Hog Farm _Bacon 06:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - Hog Farm, you have my sincere sympathies. In this case the only coverage of a Widgeon in California I could find is this reference to an abandoned oil/gas drilling operation there (see page 68 here). Not a populated place, fails WP:GEOLAND. Hog Farm,Mangoe - we've had a lot of noms lately all with the same basic problem (i.e., WP:GEOLAND fails mass-created purely based on GNIS data) - maybe we could just do a general discussion? Some of these articles have proved saveable (e.g., Oriole, Kentucky) but for the California ones it really looks like maybe WP:PROD is a better way to go? I'm satisfied that you guys aren't just nom'ing these locations willy-nilly, I see you're doing an extensive WP:BEFORE because you don't want to delete stuff you don't have to. I think if GNIS is the only thing cited and its in the US, and you've given it a pass on Newspapers.com and come up with no stories, then maybe you should just PROD it and only bring it to AFD if there is at least some coverage (but not enough in your view). What do you guys think? FOARP (talk) 14:31, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

In the past, it has been fairly difficult to move multiple articles through deletion. Typically an editor who has not been involved in the past cites GNIS, or finds trivial coverage and they need to be brought up to speed. Also, what has happened is that some editors feel that not enough WP:BEFORE has been applied. It might be worth trying to group articles. For example, all articles in California that cite only Durham, that have no GNIS entry and that are railroad sidings could be a first pass. I dunno. We should probably broaden this conversation to a talk page somewhere. Knowledge talk:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Geography or Knowledge talk:WikiProject Geography come to mind, but I believe more people would notice Knowledge talk:Notability (geographic features). Cxbrx (talk) 17:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I've started PRODing the most blatant problems over the last week or so, see User:Hog Farm/PROD log#December 2020, where there are already almost 40. I'm trying to be judicious with PRODing, as some of these are notable, and I don't want to see notable articles deleted. However, single AFD noms run the risk of overwhelming the system. I just don't know if there's a good, efficient, way out of this beyond Carlossuarez46 looking through his own work and WP:G7-ing the ones that are problematic. I tried to go through all of the ones listed at Template:Kern County, California, but burnt out on Kern about halfway through. Have since been looking at Modoc and Imperial counties. Hog Farm _Bacon 17:36, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Good job on the PRODs, it was nice to see a list. Maybe the thing to do is to let the AfDs rest a bit, there is quite a bit of work to be done. Or, keep at it! I know what you mean about getting burned out. I made a pass through the Nevada counties and burned out with Clark County. Cxbrx (talk) 17:54, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I intend on taking a few days off from this to let the chips fall and work on responding to some comments at A-Class nominations of articles I've worked on. Once this batch gets filtered through, I'll start looking again. Hog Farm _Bacon 18:21, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I might be able to get a copy of Durham from the library in the coming days. I'm really wondering what it actually says for a lot of these like Mock, California, which is so obviously not a community (and short-lived mining camps don't count). I prodded Lamberts Corner, Washington, Sunset Beach, Washington, Schneiders Prairie, Washington, and a few others that blatantly misrepresented the linked source, so perhaps if we can see that even Durham fails to call these populated places, addressing them in bulk may be more in order. Soft deletions are always welcome with recreation if someone has a legitimate source for places that could actually be notable. I got burned out ages ago and there's still thousands of these in Indiana, Virginia, and New Jersey among others (in those cases often neighborhoods rather than railroads), so something beyond AFDs needs to be done. Reywas92 20:14, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

And Kentucky and West Virginia can be added to the list of states with all sorts of error stubs. Hog Farm _Bacon 21:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Getting Durham sounds like a great idea. Frankly at this point, though, I think we're better just WP:TNTing the Durham/GNIS stubs and recreating the ones that can be recreated. There's thousands of these things and going through them one-by-one is just going to burn people out, and take more time than deletion/recreation. FOARP (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Speedy delete Mass-producer carelessly misrepresented the source: Durham says under the Bayley entry on p354: "California Division of Highways' (1954) map has the name "Bayley" at a place located about 0.5 miles farther north, and has the name "Widgeon" along the railroad at or near present Bayley", not that it is a community or notable settlement. Reywas92 23:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete I am not finding anything notable. Jeepday (talk) 18:56, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete. No post office. Confirmed to not be in GNIS. Searching GBooks is tricky because the California Widgeon is a bird. However, searching for "widgeon california Bayley" finds indicates that Widgeon was a station so WP:STATION applies. As this location is not legally recognized and is a station with very little, if any, coverage, it does not meet WP:GEOLAND. Cxbrx (talk) 20:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:40, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Tasha Williamson

AfDs for this article:

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Unsuccessful municipal candidate fails WP:NPOL. Page is only sourced to hyper-local publications. KidAd talk 06:31, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom Oaktree b (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep on the grounds of significant coverage for general notability. Weak keep at least. Trillfendi (talk) 00:39, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom -- CharlesShirley (talk) 04:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Fails WP:NPOL Serv181920 (talk) 10:54, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep Notable enough locally, and well supported by reliable sources. A good encyclopedia article.--Concertmusic (talk) 23:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:40, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Foundation for International Spiritual Unfoldment

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There is not a single third party source. Almost all the references are about meditation in general; The others are ref 1, placement on the Government's list of charities, and ref 17, a press release.

the contents, as expected is PR. DGG ( talk ) 05:42, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete. Lacks sources with WP:ORGDEPTH. Previously deleted as Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Meditation for Spiritual Unfoldment. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 16:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom and WP:OR. Essentially unsourced except for listings. Existence is not notability. Bearian (talk) 20:30, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - I found a few book mentions but nothing that would satisfy WP:ORGDEPTH.--CNMall41 (talk) 21:02, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 08:40, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Mattes, California

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Not on topos, no GNIS entry, not in Gudde. Google books didn't bring up anything definitive for me, newspapers.com has a number of passing mentions of a Mattes Ranch in Modoc California re horse sales. No evidence this was a legally recognized community, probably fails WP:GEOLAND and WP:GNG is not met. I'm really doubting anything only sourced to Durham that didn't have a post office at this point. Hog Farm _Bacon 05:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - I, too, find no evidence that this location was ever inhabited. Durham is looking like a bad source at the moment (but: I don't have access to it so this may actually be on the person who created the article, some of the sourcing elsewhere seems to mistate what the actual sources quoted in the article say). FOARP (talk) 14:52, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
- FOARP - At various points when I first started this, I contacted a user with Durham to see what Durham says about a place. From the minimal instances I've seen, Durham calls something a "locality" or "point on the railroad", and this single user (who is an admin!) created all of these, apparently under the presumptions that localities and points on the railroad met GEOLAND. There are probably hundreds more of these that need AFD or PROD. I've been prodding the most blatant ones (mainly river crossings, ranches, and railroad sidings). See User:Hog Farm/PROD log for the list of stuff I've prodded. I'd prefer to send these to AFD, especially if there is any doubt, but there's just so many I have to PROD the worst so as not to overwhelm the system. Hog Farm _Bacon 15:36, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  - Hog Farm - Really if all this had been created to day I would support a trip to WP:ANI. I've just checked the article creation log of this guy and there's just hundreds and hundreds of these things. Nowadays the location articles they're creating nowadays appear better sourced (but not very well sourced TBF). FOARP (talk) 15:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    - I agree that if these articles were created today, it might be going to WP:ANI. Due to the immense volume of articles created in the distant past, I'd like to see the creator sanctioned with something like for every article he creates, he needs to consider an AfD for one of his older articles. Or that he needs to actively participate in the AfD for three of his articles before he gets to create another one. Or something. I was shocked to see that the creator is an admin, perhaps this should be reconsidered? Would he become an admin today? Cxbrx (talk) 17:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
      - There have been a couple direct appeals to the editor's talk page for help in cleaning this up. No response, but they're not trying to save these, either. My mindset at this point is to just clear out the blatantly bad ones, although this will take a long time, and the time it takes to research one of these is about the time it takes to make 6 or 7 of them. There's been mass-creation of dubious geographic stubs in almost every US state, by different users, although this user's California efforts are by far the most prodiguous and most error prone. Most of these are less spectactular errors than, say Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Fish Pond, Kentucky, but there's just so many. I honestly just think the best way to go forward with this is to PROD ones that are obvious, and then AFD the more borderline ones, to reduce the burden on AFD. Quick checks on the PRODs should be enough to confirm if most of them are problematic or not. Most of the ones with post offices are probably fine, with a few exceptions that turn up through heavy research, such as Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Point Reyes (former settlement), California. There's 1,741 articles in Category:Unincorporated communities in California and a further 1,177 in Category:Former populated places in California. Obviously, a number of those nearly 3,000 are going to be legitimate, but many are not. Hog Farm _Bacon 17:19, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
        I'm with you on trying a PROD on some of these. Maybe choose 5 or 10 in one county as a test case and then try 25? Can we recall an admin? That might get them to participate. Cxbrx (talk) 17:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
        
        I posted to his user page and got a non-commital response. I'm going to leave it at that. I have a policy of avoiding conflict on WP - life is short. I've said my piece, time to move on etc. Cxbrx (talk) 02:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Speedy delete Mass-producer negligently misrepresented the source: Durham says under the entry for Adin, California on p351: "California Division of Highways' (1951) map shows a place called Mattes located 2 miles northeast of Alturas along Nevada-California-Oregon Railroad." not that it is a community or notable settlement. Reywas92 23:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete - per nom; fails WP:GEOLAND and WP:GNG Spiderone 14:59, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: per nom, fails GNG and NGEO. // Timothy :: talk 07:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 08:39, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Hollenbeck, California

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Topos show an isolated railroad siding. I found one newspapers.com result for deer hunting at this place, but everything else was for a nearby natural feature named Hollenbeck Butte and a park and hotel in Los Angeles named Hollenbeck. Doesn't seem to meet WP:GEOLAND or WP:GNG. Hog Farm _Bacon 04:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Speedy delete Mass-producer carelessly misrepresented the source: Durham says "locality, 12 miles north-northeast of White Horse along Great Northern Railroad..." not that it is a community or notable settlement, as is obvious on the maps. Reywas92 00:00, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete. No post office. Not a stop on the 1934 Great Northern Railway, unlike Tionesta, California and Scarface, California, which are located up and down the line, so this location was at best a non-notable siding. WP:STATION applies. Cxbrx (talk) 17:34, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per all of the above; blatant failure of all applicable guidelines Spiderone 11:16, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: per nom, fails GNG and NGEO. // Timothy :: talk 07:14, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. czar 16:45, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

SuperMarioLogan

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Speedy deleted four times between 2014 and 2017. The small handful of 3rd party reliable sources don't have sufficient depth of coverage to qualify for general notability; nearly all are simply mentions a character from the series as an example of content parents shouldn't be allowing their children to see. The only reference with any kind of depth is from deadlinenews.co.uk, which rather than being to credited to one of their reporters is credited to "guest," thus failing under news org reliable sources guidelines. OhNoitsJamie 03:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Neutral: I had initially declined the article as I too was dubious of the notability, but Sdkb (pinging for input) convinced me it was worthy, hence the AfC publish. Also relevant; Logan Thirtyacre has been created and deleted 5 times since this title's salting in 2017 — IVORK _Talk 03:34, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

@IVORK: ALso Draft:Logan Thirtyacre was recreated to the point of saiting. 4thfile4thrank (talk) 19:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep Several independent links at the bottom, meets notability standards. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 03:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Log/2020 December 7. —_{Talk to my owner:Online} 03:52, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete The Early life content (medical conditions) does not contribute to notability, nor does paying for a dinner with Brady. This leaves little in the article. David notMD (talk) 09:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep passes WP:GNG and WP:ENT, several reliable resources in citation box. Trevortnidesserped (talk) 1:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Abstain ~~Good citations, notable personality, and is controversial enough to stand out with other youtubers. a gd fan (talk) 17:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)~~ See my comment below Praxidicae's --a gd fan (talk) 22:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete the notion that there are "good citations" here is silly and also the idea that controversy automatically = notability is equally ridiculous. This is a puffy feel good piece and akin to gossip, it has no depth. this is not Deadline, it's a guest post to a blog that isn't reliable (and even if it were, it's a passing mention), this isn't coverage, this is a perspective piece which is admittedly okay but hardly in depth coverage of the subject, a three paragraph warning in a local paper isn't exactly the type of in depth journalism we look for, and this is just blatantly unreliable. Praxidicae (talk) 19:34, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment - Now I never meant if it's controversial, than it's notable, but this guy is notable. His content made a kid put a noose around his neck because the kid mimicked it. Although I checked the references again, and I saw some unreliable ones, and your comment makes sense, so I change my vote to abstain. Hopefully someone can make a better bio of him --a gd fan (talk) 22:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Another comment - Although it is true that someone imitated Jeffy's moves and passed away. --a gd fan (talk) 22:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Note:If it is deleted, then it will 100% need to be salted. 4thfile4thrank (talk) 19:40, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment Has been covered numerous times by well known websites, ENT and GNG state the subject "must have made innovative contributions in associated field of entertainment," "have a large fan base or significant 'cult' following," "must have been independently discussed" and "does not need a fixated quantity of reliable sources." Nearly every source puts primary focus on the subject. Whether the sources are to few people's fancy-dancy standards is irrelevant. I, Sdkb, Royal Autumn Crest, GDFan, among others, provide good enough points to support the need for an article on Logan, deletion is not necessary. Trevortnidesserpedx (talk) 20:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Trevortnidesserped You only get one !vote and you already gave it above. They aren't my standards, they are Wikipedias. Praxidicae (talk) 20:36, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete — I cant find three solid reliable sources that proves subject of our discussion merits a standalone at this point in time. So I totally support OhNoitsJamie’s stance. Celestina007 (talk) 23:46, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Namcokid 47 03:51, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Per nom and analysis by Praxidicae, fails WP:GNG._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 09:05, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment Does not fail WP:GNG; There is no guidance to support that claim, and a user* with 7 years more experience has said otherwise "Hello Trevortnidesserped! Looking at your draft, I'm inclined to agree with you that the subject passes the general notability guideline and the notability guideline for entertainers." (Look at the message at the very bottom.) Trevortnidesserpedx (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete: Per Praxidicae. Definitely a WP:RUNOFTHEMILL. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 16:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Geschichte (talk) 08:37, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Rebel Foods

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Purely WP:PROMO, Lacks WP:SIGCOV. Having no encyclopedic value in the first place. Hence, calling for an AfD. - Hatchens (talk) 03:08, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment: Kindly note, this page is an iteration of this company Faasos... seems to be created purely due to some rebranding activity. If not delete, then it can be merged with this page. -Hatchens (talk) 11:51, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep Meets NCORP/GNG and has been vetted through AFC. The article is barely a few lines long, so any "promo" concerns can be addressed by self before sending the article to deletion, per WP:ATD. The nominator needs to be careful before marking articles as "paid" in bad faith. Such behavior is borderline disruptive. M4DU7 (talk) 05:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
NOTE: This vote is added by the creator of the article. - Hatchens (talk) 12:18, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep. Article has some very solid references - in-depth coverage of the subject from some very reliable sources (Bloomberg, Times of India, Business Standard etc). That alone shows the subject meets the notability standard, regardless of whether the article was started as paid promo or not. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 09:51, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep. Although the sources are not well known in the USA, since this is an establishment in India, it seems to be notable in it's own market and significant coverage from local sources. Expertwikiguy (talk) 10:48, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep for now: The company is certainly notable enough to warrant its own article. Seems to be the largest cloud kitchen company in India and is affiliated with Wendy's which gives a sense of the company's scale. Article needs significant improvement and more citations though. Prolix 💬 13:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot Prolix.. for chipping in. Your opinion matters. - Hatchens (talk) 14:23, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was speedy delete/move the priest article there. Geschichte (talk) 09:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Michael McPartland

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There is only one person with entry in this disambiguation page. There used to be one other entry, but the targeted article was deleted several months ago. This disambiguation page should be deleted so that "Michael McPartland" can be redirected to "Michael McPartland (Priest)" or so that "Michael McPartland (Priest)" can be renamed to just "Michael McPartland." ―NK1406 02:04, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom, then move Michael McPartland (priest) to this title. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 09:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Speedy Delete under G14, unnecessary disambiguation page, then move Michael McPartland (priest) here, as suggested above. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 10:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 08:37, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Skinner Mill Place, California

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The Tehama County school system has this convenient list of placenames and their origins which, if not strictly up to our standards perhaps, offers information about practically every place in the county we have an article on, and more besides. It explains a decided discrepancy in the topos, because the older ones call this area "Heitman Place", with "Skinner Mill Place" not appearing until the 1968 map. According to the document, Heitman kept goats, and Skinner replaced that with a sawmill in the 1940s. There's still a house on the location, but as usual it seems that "Place" means one person's property, and not a town. Mangoe (talk) 01:20, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete Agree that the sourcing says this was only ever a lumber mill. Whilst we should keep an open mind about communities that may have been company towns (particularly mining communities growing up around mines - and then disappearing when the mines close) this doesn't appear to have ever been a populated community as such. FOARP (talk) 14:57, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete No post office. JSTOR and Newspapers.com had no hits, GBooks had some rehashes of GNIS. No legal recognition, no coverage, so #1 and #2 are not met of WP:GEOLAND. Cxbrx (talk) 21:27, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: per nom, fails GNG and NGEO. No community and no SIGCOV about the lumber mill. // Timothy :: talk 04:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was merge to Dan Swano. And feel free to merge elsewhere, too. Missvain (talk) 01:41, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Steel (band)

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Not notable on its own, imo GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 06:59, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Short-lived (very short-lived, actually) Swedish power metal band. Yeah, it had three notable members (who are absolute legends, might I add), but I am still taking this to Afd because of the sourcing. Sourcing is very important on WP, in fact it's the heart and soul of WP. And the sourcing in the article is poor beyond belief. It is sourced solely to an external link, which is not even available. Google search did not help either, as the results I found there are the usual trash like metal archives, discogs, youtube and more unreliable looking sites. Those sites featured a review of their sole EP, which under normal circumstances would be considered good, and indicates notability, but the problem is that these sites look unreliable. And that is never a good sign. It doesn't help either that they had an incredibly basic name and an incredibly basic album title, so during the Google search, stuff related to actual steel, metal and machines came up. Btw, this has been sitting here since 2005. So yeah, despite the notable members, I think this short-lived band is not notable on its own, but it can live on as a redirect to any of the members' articles. Thoughts? GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 05:55, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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Merge into Dan Swanö. Maybe just a one-liner in his bio would be best. Lugnuts 08:54, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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Merge into both Dan Swanö and Opeth. Very interesting, but not enough for its own piece, I don't think.--Concertmusic (talk) 23:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was merge to New Forest#Reptiles and amphibians. Missvain (talk) 01:41, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

New Forest Reptile Centre

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Not many good sources. Very promotional-looking. 4thfile4thrank {talk} :? 18:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

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Merge to New Forest#Reptiles and amphibians. References other than one blog, are all mere mentions. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 11:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

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Merge to New Forest#Reptiles and amphibians per the above suggestion, or as a new section under New Forest. This is good information and should live on in the larger article.--Concertmusic (talk) 23:47, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Bradley Brooks

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Was PRODded and REFUNDed. Brooks still fails GNG. Winning a youth world championship doesn't make him notable either. Dougal18 (talk) 15:57, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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Delete a non-notable darts player.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:34, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Keep I don't know if I can agree with the statement that winning the PDC World Youth championship doesn't make him notable. For that very reason, I think that a deletion is going to incur a never ending battle to keep it. Can we make some progresss in better establishing darts notability, since most of the 249 Category:Professional Darts Corporation associate players (that have never played on the full circuit) would be far less notable, having never won a televised title? I feel it would be much more productive to try to establish some guidelines, than to seemingly randomly pick some players. Then instead of having the same discussion over and over again, we can refer to a consensus. DLManiac (talk) 06:51, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep – I disagree with the assertion that winning the World Youth Championship doesn't make Brooks notable; and feel that the level of coverage Brooks has received matches up with GNG regardless. OZOO (t) (c) 16:41, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep – The relentless deletion of darts players for no reason at all is just ridiculous. There are loads more tedious players in other sports, and they don't seem to be deleted any time soon. There needs to be some solid rules for darts players. I was trying to create loads, and a lot of them got deleted. If any darts player has appeared in a televised event, they should be safe from deletion, as should all players who have played in a PDC European Tour event, as that's the next highest level up. These people don't seem to realise how big a deal darts is at the moment. JRRobinson (talk) 09:50, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep This is a well-supported article, and I for one don't have a notability concern.--Concertmusic (talk) 23:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Junior Research Fellowship

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Only sources are its own site. 4thfile4thrank (talk) 20:11, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

It is also the case that this term is widely used and this article is about a very specific case. So delete. --Bduke (talk) 07:54, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep It is a well known Fellowship granted by UGC. There are coverages of news about JRF like which can be added. Additionally the page may be renamed as Junior Research Fellowship (UGC) to address the second concern on the nominator. ChunnuBhai (talk) 12:04, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep in support of the comments made above by ChunnuBhai.--Concertmusic (talk) 23:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 01:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

TEAM University Tashkent

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Google search gave nothing other than primary sources. 4thfile4thrank (talk) 20:23, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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Keep. I think a university founded by government decree should be considered to be notable, no matter how recently created. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:03, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

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Keep It’s a very new university so I wouldn’t expect much independent sourcing yet. It exists and it’s a degree-awarding institution, so notable. Mccapra (talk) 07:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep but TNT and start over: I agree that this will eventually have SIGCOVV, but the article as written is completely promotional. The best course is to WP:TNT and start the article over as a stub so it can be developed into a proper article. I understand AFD is not cleanup, but some articles need a complete restart to be proper articles. I propose this as the stub start:

TEAM University is an entrepreneurial university in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. Founded in April 2020, it is the first entrepreneurial university in Uzbekistan.

The above sources are a decent start on GNG and after TNT the article can be developed properly. There may be more sources here (not all or most) list may be helpful; after the two I cited above I stopped reviewing and didn't search in Russian or regional languages. Ping previous !votes for input on TNT and start over: @4thfile4thrank, Necrothesp, and Mccapra: // Timothy :: talk 12:57, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't think it actually needs TNTing, just the promotional stuff trimming. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:50, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep, meets notability requirement, and I agree with Necrothesp that TNT is a tad drastic, trimming will do. Onel5969 23:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Geschichte (talk) 09:07, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Tax and spend

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Violates WP:WINAD. Basically contains the description of the term and the etymology. Mazuretsky (talk) 20:43, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

I think this is perhaps more of a WP:STUB than a dictionary issue. There are >1.8 million results for the term "Tax and spend" on Google, including multiple published books, academic articles, political commentary pieces, and references to the terms usage in major political campaigns, both in the US and the UK. The etymology being the only information in the article itself, when there is so much apparent broad usage in modern discourse lends to the case that the article should in fact be expanded, not deleted.

--Pshmell (talk) 21:06, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

The number of search results is hardly the argument. I doubt that there is much to write there beyond what is already written in the article Modern liberalism in the United States, as there is little meaning to this word beyond the identification of this particular political philosophy. Mazuretsky (talk) 21:12, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

The term has 588 references in the New York Times in the period from 1970 to 2002 (see here), or over 1.5 uses per month. The term is significant enough to impact major political discourse and reporting, and the encyclopedia should reflect that. This article's problem is not that it is acting as a dictionary definition—the issue is that the article is a WP:STUB that should be expanded to explain the term's significance to government deficit spending policies and the discourse around them. Pshmell (talk) 00:12, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I've updated the article, adding significant information, including two new sections. The new section Tax and spend#Political discourse includes both favorable and unfavorable uses of the term. The other new section includes references to the use of tax and spend policies in the United States. I cleaned up the History section, added several references, and added a second paragraph to the introduction referencing the 1936 Supreme Court case on the matter of tax and spend policy. I maintain that this is not a definition issue, and that issues with the page can be corrected by expanding it. Pshmell (talk) 01:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 21:40, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Keep. It's a thing in United States politics. Bearian (talk) 22:02, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 01:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep. Just clicking the 'find sources' links at the top of this AfD brings up a great deal of coverage of this subject - books and academic papers in particular cover it in great depth. Notable and encyclopaedic as a term and a concept. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 09:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep: The article could be expanded and improved, but the concept is clearly notable, just based on existing sources in the article. — Toughpigs (talk) 03:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Keep This is a phrase that is frequently used in United States politics and is referenced appropriately. JayJay 05:23, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

A. J. C. Jooste High School

AfDs for this article:

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I would just redirect this, but it survived a 2013 AfD and schools always engender discussion. Loathe to diminish coverage, but there is no evidence this school, which exists, is notable in any way. There doesn't seem to be a there there when combining it with the lower school either. StarM 01:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete or redirect due to lack of significant coverage in independent sources. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - non-notable school, fails WP:GNG. Onel5969 23:20, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Net Plaza

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The article does not meet WP:GNG or WP:NBUILD. The article makes no claim for general notability WP:GNG or historic, social, economic, or architectural importance WP:NBUILD. WP:BEFORE revealed advertising, WP:ROUTINE, WP:MILL coverage, and directory style listings. This is a nice, normal, building, not an encyclopedic topic. // Timothy :: talk 01:13, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails NBUILD and GNG; not enough notability for a Knowledge entry Spiderone 10:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:MILL and WP:SNOW. Having been to Manila, this building is not even seem on the skyline. Bearian (talk) 20:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete - not enough in-depth coverage to meet WP:GNG. Onel5969 23:19, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was redirect to Trina Braxton. (non-admin closure) YorkshireLad ✿ 10:49, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Party or Go Home

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The article does not meet either WP:NMUSIC or WP:GNG. While doing a before search, I could not find evidence this song received significant coverage from third-party, reliable sources, and most of the coverage I found was from unreliable sources. Aoba47 (talk) 00:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Redirect to Trina Braxton: Barely found anything about the song. Search results return only passing mentions of it. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 04:00, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the message. A redirect would make sense to me. Aoba47 (talk) 04:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. -- Patar knight - /_{contributions} 00:45, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Glass Mountain, California

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Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not finding this on the topos. Newspapers.com and Google books hits seem to be all for Glass Mountain (California) which is in a different county. Doesn't seem to pass WP:GEOLAND or WP:GNG. Hog Farm _Bacon 00:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete. No post office. Not present in GNIS. Search Google for 'Great Northern Railway "Glass Mountain" ' indicates that it was a station: , , so WP:STATION applies and this station is not notable. I agree that GBooks and Newspapers.com have plenty of hits for ~~Glass Mountain (California)~~ Glass Mountain, the mountain located nearby, but nothing that indicates that there was ever a settlement there. I looked on the topos and found nothing as well. The 1939 timetable has Glass Mountain at milepost (MP) 35.00 between Tionesta, California at MP 39.09 and Scarface, California at MP 23.36. Setting WP:OR aside momentarily and inspecting a topo suggests that Glass Mountain was a previous name for Kephart, California. Cxbrx (talk) 01:38, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
delete Triangulation using the schedule and Durham's directions leads me to the same conclusion: this is the same spot as Kephart. I'm not going for a redirect because I don't think Kephart is notable either, being yet another isolated siding. Mangoe (talk) 02:17, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
- After looking into it, I agree that Kephart apparently is/was just another uninhabited siding, so I've PRODed it. Hog Farm _Bacon 04:37, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete Any pertinent information can go into the Modoc County article, I'd say Merge if there were any, but doesn't look like it now. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 04:39, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Speedy delete Mass-producer negligently misrepresented the source: Durham says under the entry for Meares: "California Division of Highways' (1951) map shows a place called Glass Mountain located 6 miles west-southwest along Great Northern Railroad", not that it is a community or notable settlement. Reywas92 00:03, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Delete per all of the above; blatant failure of all applicable guidelines Spiderone 11:16, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Geschichte (talk) 08:36, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Ghent, California

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This doesn't look like it passes WP:GEOLAND. Not marked on topos, no GNIS entry, not in Gudde. Topos show a rail siding in the approximate area indicated by the article, with a cluster of buildings eventually appearing that Google maps suggests is a scrapyard. I've figured out how to filter newspapers.com results by county, and searching for Ghent in Modoc County, California newspapers brings up six hits: a scanner area and five references to the European city. Not seeing how this passes WP:GEOLAND or WP:GNG. Hog Farm _Bacon 00:03, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm _Bacon 00:03, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - Fails WP:GEOLAND. I'm beginning to think these articles may have been mass-created simply to build up the edits/article creation count needed to get adminship. It's hard to sanction people for having done this back in 2009, but if someone were doing this now I'd support sending them to ANI for disruptive behaviour and put a block on them editing geography articles. FOARP (talk) 15:13, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete. No post office. Confirmed to not be in GNIS and not on topos. Searching GBooks for 'Ghent "Southern Pacific"' finds which has 5 hits for Ghent, all of which state that Ghent is now known as Canby. GBooks has some other hits indicating that Ghent was a station, so WP:STATION applies. As there is no legal recognition, #1 of WP:GEOLAND is not met. As there is only trivial coverage, this locale is does not meet #2 of WP:GEOLAND. Cxbrx (talk) 17:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Delete: per nom, fails GNG and NGEO. // Timothy :: talk 04:38, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

""Star To A Young Culture" charting". Retrieved December 3, 2020.
"The first private entrepreneurial university opens in Uzbekistan". Forbes Uzbekistan.
"TEAM University established in Uzbekistan". Uzdaily.com. 20 April 2020. Retrieved December 12, 2020.